Some people, including certain
Engadget editors, just can't live without a Ctrl key in the bottom left of their keyboard and a Delete key in the top right. Call it Windows shortcut addiction, but the miniscule adjustment of having to step one key inwards to do our thing totally messes with our mojo. Well, after slapping on some massive Delete and Esc buttons on
its T400s, Lenovo is now taking care of the Ctrl freaks by offering up a BIOS option to switch that all-important key with the Fn button. Regrettably, current Lenovo owners won't be getting it as an update, but the Switch Mode will be available "in all future ThinkPad models," giving us yet more reason to be excited about that
rumored X200e machine.
posted Nov 5th 2009 4:14AM
Hmmm, are the keys going to be the same size, so they can physically be switched too? Or will we have to resort so stickers?
Dreams of day when all laptops will be equipped with an Optimus Maximus like keyboard... *Drools a little*
That could be why it is only available on future models?
I think that rather than individual screens in each key a transparent keyboard with a larger screen underneath would be cheaper. Or a touchscreen with key shapes moulded into it and haptic feedback.
Up until the latest round of Toshiba laptops (e.g. R500), you could physically swap the Caps Lock and Ctrl keys just by pulling them off and snapping them back on. On more recent Toshibas, the keys are sized differently. Bummer!
In any case, with software like Keyboard Layout Manager, Ctrl2Cap, or Key Remapper--or with a simple edit of the registry--you can easily reassign keys in WinXP and higher. In fact, it's possible to change any key--modifier or not--to output the keycode of any other key.
Whatever the solution, it'll be better than what poor Mac laptop owners face: No real Delete key at all.
The real trick would be to make Windows say "Press Fn-Alt-Del to log on"
Blackberry, do you see this? Let me do this with the $ key.
(Blackberry dedicates the dollar sign, but not the period key, FYI)
I guess they expect you to double tap the space bar instead - you're right though it doesn't make any sense. How often does one write monetary amounts? Maybe its the crowd they're going for.
Hmm clever UI. It does make sense, in that you want to type a dollar (or pound in my case) more than double space. And typing double space is surely quicker than full stop, then space?
Doesn't everyone just double tap the space bar? I do that all the time now, and I'm very happy Apple added it some time ago to the iPhone.
Are you kidding? With all the MIPS coding I do on my blackberry, it's a lifesaver!
It makes no sense why they switched it round in the first place.
They didn't switch it. They were the first ones to make an fn key. Apple copied them, and then the other laptop makers inverted it for some reason. So this was actually the original design
It sucks playing any sort of game on my X61 because the function key is on the outside. It is definitely misplaced.
Oh my goodness I don't know how many times I've failed to copy and paste on my laptop... it's too bad I have a T60. Sigh (failure and humiliation continues to ensue)
They switch it for the Thinklight.
lower left most key + top right most key = an LED light that lets you see your keyboard in the dark.
I'd disagree. Look at any desktop keyboard from the past 20 years. The Ctrl key has remained in the same position the entire time: the bottom left hand corner.
Considering it's one of the most important keys on the keyboard, why it needs to move to make way for a Fn key is perplexing -- Macs are slightly different in this regard.
*@christopclos
I'm a ThinkPad user that's stuck on a netbook for now.
I want this in Acer's BIOS... so I can switch the keys around to the ThinkPad layout. I've used ThinkPads almost exclusively (except for a few months playing with an old iBook, which also has Fn to the left of Ctrl) for over 4 years, now.
@shaliron: He was talking about laptops... not desktop keyboards. We all know the control key was at the lower left on desktops, but Lenovo was the first to put Fn keys on their laptops and they put it in the lower left.
Us old fart Solaris admins like our Ctrl keys here:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2221/2193465934_64970fb903.jpg
@(Unverified)
Actually, I like having the FN in the corner. Lots of functions, like turning the headlight on to read your keyboard in the dark, are much easier with FN in the corner.
But I don't mind having the option. Now if only caps lock were removed. That's such a useless waste of space.
Wouldn't it be easier to just adjust to the keyboard?
Also, can't you just remap this in the registry in Windows?
sure, you can adapt to a new keyboard-- but it's the going back and forth from my machine to EVERYBODY ELSE'S that drives me nuts. we have standardization for a reason.
I was using Lenovo for a while (company's notebook), and I hate it for being smartass to swap the ctrl and fn key. Why just swap the ctrl and fn key? change the QUERTY to dvorak too and see how the market response!
I will never buy Lenovo. It is an ugly and stupid piece of crap.
or change the QWERTY to QUERTY even!
please please please make this available on existing machines with a bios update. Please! Did I say please?
Or, laptop makers could just put the Ctrl key in the bottom-left corner where it belongs, and put Fn between it and the windows key. That's how my laptop does it, and how every laptop should do it.
in fact, I have problems with the "non-Lenovo" layout after always using Thinkpads. The switch thing is the better solution for current users.
Heh, I like it the other way, like my Apple's do it. I barely need Fn anyway (so off to the side it, hard to reach it goes), and this way Ctrl is where my finger already is.
I still say the better solution is to switch the control and caps lock key. That way both the fn and ctrl key are easily accessible, and the caps lock key is hidden out of the way near the infinite hell it should be in (the Windows key).
I'm glad Lenovo finally figured this out, but somebody forget to tell Steve Jobs. Although, he probably did it just to be "different" (ie, difficult).
heh, "ctrl freaks"
Fn Ctrl Freaks...
I was going to be all "I see what you did there" to the post's author, but Spartan has made all further attempts at humor in this thread redundant. "Fn Ctrl Freaks"... I love it!
I'm pretty sure Thinkpads have always done this, I had an old IBM one and it was the same way
Is this a big thing to have or don't have such option? Because my few years old HP Compaq nx7400 has such option by default. Although I don't need it. :D
Options are always welcome.
I sorta always wanted the Command Key to be movable to the bottom left on my Apple
It's possible - http://www.pqrs.org/tekezo/macosx/keyremap4macbook/
I'm enjoying my Cmd-triggering Fn key. You can also change Eject to Delete.
The only proper position for a control key is to the left of "A". Bottom left is an abomination.
I agree completely!
Amen, {sister,brother}!
I would be extra-impressed if they had designed it so you could swap the caps - something like this would work, mean keys would feel as normal, yet be swappable:
http://imgur.com/45iiF.jpg
I've seen this in some BIOS of other vendors already, ...
I want this so bad on Macs ! I hate the FN key being at the corner of my Macbook, especially when the regular Mac keyboards (for Mac Pros, iMacs, etc) have the ctrl key at the corner. Way to be consistent Apple. That added to the fact most PCs have the ctrl key at the corner and I constantly hit the wrong key when switching computers.
Apple fix this pleeeease.
Especially since with the new Macs you don't need the fn button that often anyway.
Especially since they removed the numpad keys on all MacBooks. I could once again start to cry.
Just configure your caps lock key to be ctrl, and you are done.
The position of the CTRL key on Mac is less of a matter as most operations is done via the command key.
By the way, I think COMMAND + C / V / A , COMMAND + Q is easier to press compare to CTRL + C / V / A or ALT + F4
There's a fix: http://www.pqrs.org/tekezo/macosx/keyremap4macbook/ (I'm surprised so few people know about it)
@Alp:
Apple fixed this for you recently by putting the Fn key in the lower left of even iMac's standard keyboards (it was there for the optional wireless keyboard previously, just now it is standard).
So just like my MacBook Pro, I popped those keytops off, swapped CTRL and Fn, and never looked back.
Horay for the cmd key!
Left and right of the space bar, there shall be command keys, and to the sides of those the alts.
Should i get a new laptop, i will just remap ctrl to alt and alt+gr, and those two to the useless windows keys.
qwert
The lack of a real Delete key on Mac laptops (and the small keyboard that comes with iMacs) is a way bigger problem than this.
WTF, shipping a computer that has only a Backspace key. Leave it to Apple. Totally out of touch with the real world.
Finally! Only took em 5 years and a forum full of complaints. I'd never buy a PC that botched this placement - Toshiba and MSI have also made this ridiculous mistake. Oh and Apple of course, who manage to mangle it even further with their lack of 'normal' delete. Idiots.
This is a big usability mistake.. I have to use a packard bell-laptop for work where some idiot had the same "brilliant" idea.. very, very irritating..
This has actually kept me from buying a Lenovo laptop - had to use it for a 2 month training once and just couldn't get used to it. I always thought it was just me being difficult :)
Really Nice function !!!
Darn my Gateway laptop has the keys like this too. Wish it would let me switch them in bios too :(
It seems like I bought my Thinkpad at just the right time: A few months BEFORE Lenovo goes to the shit.
OMG, I thought I was the only one with the CTRL key freakout. I have a T500 my school gave me and it drives me nuts.
Why not moving the control key to the caps-lock key? This is much easier and you do not need to wait for miracles ;)
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897578.aspx
replacing one arbitrary rearrangement with an even less standard one isn't a viable solution.
Some people, including certain Engadget editors, just can't live without a Ctrl key in the bottom left of their keyboard and a Delete key in the--------------- top right-------------.
So. you mean 'some people' never use the DESKTOP KEYBOARD....
I hate thinkpad before I own one.
But after you get familiar with it..you will really found that
fn in the bottom left is really good.
and desktop keyboard layout is also a good thing.
So on my new T400, I am out of luck? It is very annoying having the FN key on the outside :(
YESSSSSSS! I've Always Wanted To Do Exactly This!!!!!!!!
I never get used to the fn key of ThinkPad which is on the left of ctrl
swapped fn/ctrl keys was the sole reason i didn't get the lenovo laptop i was looking at a while ago.
Everyone else can just stick with AutoHotkey for swapping key placement on Windows. And I'm sure this never bothered the Linux geeks. xmodmap, done!
Fn isn't interpreted by the OS, though, it's interpreted by the keyboard controller.
Gotta hack the BIOS to remap Fn.
whoa, who uses the fn key? it just sits on my laptop with no love.
People who need to use the print screen feature.
this is the one feature of lenovos that has kept me from peronsally buying one for myself. they have it all backwards.
about time they fixed this. now how do we change the actual buttons?
THANK YOU!!!!! Man this was driving me nuts, I would hit fn on my Eee because of my IdeaPad Y730's keys and they once I would switch back from the Eee I would do the same on my IdeaPad. This was really annoying.
i applaud lenovo on this big leap for mankind
I adjusted on my Thinkpad. In fact, once you start having the FN key in the bottom left, it becomes really convenient for all the shortcuts that Lenovo has mapped out. It only becomes inconvenient when you use a computer other than a Thinkpad.
Man I need that on mine...
Just can't... crouch correctly
I would KILL to have this option on all my laptops. I can't stand the way they are on my Gateway laptops.
Thumbs up!
I always hated that about my "gaming" laptop.
I wish they would put out an update to existing Lenovo users. I use Lenovo, probably always will. Glad they are putting this on all future computers, just really wish I could get it for my S10.
OMG FINALLY.
good job lenovo
how if you only dont release white glossy screened thinkpad x200's i wont hate you for life.
About time, now people can stop griping about the FN key placement. Persoanlly I prefer the FN key on the outside, as it is convienient for the thinklight. I also use FN far more than CTRL (Turning on/off WiFi, or Bluetooth, switching monitors, etc.) And maybe I am just crazy but I have never had an issue going from using a desktop keyboard with Ctrl in the corner to a laptop with FN in the corner. No Copy/Paste failures for me.
Why would you bother with a BIOS update? You can rebind keys quite easily if it bothers you that much. I rebound my "caps lock" key to be another "delete" key, for instance (which is dead useful, fyi).
I've been using KeyTweak Keyboard Remapper on my Kensington slim keyboard for a long time now. It worked in Windows XP and still works in Windows 7. You use it once and it makes the changes to the registry. It does not have to run as a background process.
In my case, Kensington added an additional forward slash key right next to my Windows key (so dumb) and I kept hitting the wrong one so I swapped them using KeyTweak. I then swapped the actual keyboard buttons and you'd never know it wasn't factory unless you used it on another computer.
This would work great for the IBM/Lenovo laptop keyboards. We have a bunch of Lenovo laptops at work and I always end up hitting Fn+C instead of Ctrl+C and it drives me bonkers.
Go here to read more about KeyTweak here:
http://webpages.charter.net/krumsick/
I've never seen a Delete key in the top right before. Is that Mac thing?
Windows specific shortcuts dont start with ctrl.