Editorial: Hey, AT&T -- drop lawsuits, not calls
By Chris Ziegler 
posted Nov 13th 2009 1:33PM
posted Nov 13th 2009 1:33PM
- Verbiage on Verizon's site suggests that swaths of its 3G network are still running at EV-DO Rev. 0 speed: false. In fact, 100 percent of Verizon's 3G coverage has been Rev. A since 2007 -- the wording refers to 1xRTT, which is the transport technology in use where EV-DO hasn't been deployed.
- You can't distinguish between EV-DO and 1xRTT on Verizon's coverage map: false. Turns out Verizon has one of the more comprehensive coverage browsers among top-tier carriers. The technologies aren't called out by name, but they're there -- they list compatible features in different coverage zones, ostensibly to reduce customer confusion since your average Joe (not to be confused with our own Joe Flatley) doesn't know or care what "1xRTT" means.
- EDGE approaches the "low end" of EV-DO Rev. A: false. At the top end of the specification, EDGE can theoretically approach 500kbps in a cleanroom environment -- but in reality, it runs at a fraction of that and suffers more severe latency issues in practice (which is sometimes a greater detriment to a mobile web browsing experience than raw speed) than UMTS and EV-DO. Heck, AT&T itself claims 75-135kbps. Meanwhile, we got 823kbps on the downlink in real-world modem use on Verizon's Rev. A.
- AT&T's 3.6Mbps and 7.2Mbps deployments are significantly faster than EV-DO Rev. A: true, but only in theory. We're getting downlink speeds ranging from the low 100s -- yes, 100s -- to the high 800s in Chicago and New York; Chicago's got a trial 7.2Mbps network that's live, but even if we're not connected to it (hard to say), we should still be on 3.6. We seriously have no idea what AT&T's doing behind the scenes with these rollouts, but in urban areas, at least, they're not helping. At all. And that's assuming we can help ourselves from dropping down to EDGE.
- AT&T's service is augmented by the nation's largest WiFi network: we won't even justify that with a rebuttal.
- Verizon's gaming the system by comparing only their 3G networks: the truth hurts, AT&T. Verizon's commercials would have you believe that by comparing only 3G coverage, Verizon wins by a country mile. And guess what? They do. To AT&T's credit, the 3GPP's WCDMA technology path is considerably more advanced and extensible than EV-DO Rev. A is, but beyond UMTS's simultaneous voice / data capability, the end user's experience is pretty similar in day-to-day use. We go where the faster real-world speeds (and the reliable calls) are.
- Verizon is "defending steep losses" with its anti-AT&T, anti-iPhone commercials: false. Verizon added 1.2 million net customers in the most recently reported quarter, excluding acquisitions.
- LTE is "still years away from viable use" on Verizon: false. They'll have 20-30 markets commercially live in 2010, which is 20-30 more than AT&T will have. It's not nationwide coverage by a long shot, but it gives the carrier a notable lead in the 4G transition since AT&T has sparsely detailed its LTE plans and isn't expected to go live with any markets until 2011 at the earliest.
So listen, AT&T, we're sorry Verizon made you upset, but the solution's actually pretty simple: compete. Fix your network, keep scoring hot exclusives, and get hungry again -- because in a year or two, no one's going to give a damn that you used to have an exclusive on the iPhone.
AT&T has more smartphones because there are millions of people that have no business buying a smartphone that bought the iPhone because it is shiny.
The iphone is not the only smartphone AT&T has.
Yes because he is the only guy in all of America complaining.....what a lame ass response to someone honestly stating that in his area, and in his experience he drops calls all the time.
I agree with him, I drop at least 40% of my calls, and the response from AT&T was sorry your contract doesn't guarantee you good service.
Oh, and PS, who cares about everyone elses time with the phone, or AT&T. They could have the best call quality and signal strength ever...it doesn't help me one damn bit
Because consumers are stupid and they fell for the whole "nations fastest network" campaign. Faster =/= Better
Sure the technology has the capability to be faster, but if you get out of big cities, you won't get those fast speeds.
Wow you are defensive....own AT&T stock, or just an iPhone fanboy?
But they do have a ton of them and IIRC, they count towards the total number of smartphones.
Everyone has HTC, blackberry and most of the other brands... AT&T has those plus the iPhone. To think that the iPhone doesn't drive up the total number of smart phones appreciably is kinda foolish.
Just thought I'd mention this, but on T-Mobile with an Android phone I'm getting 2.7 MB. This isn't even in a major city.
What exactly does this have to do with dropped calls? Great the iPhone is a very popular hand held browser, and with good reason. AT&T still stucks.
Possibly all coming through some other connection, may wifi? After all according to AT&T they are backup by the almighty WiFi. So until we know what pipe that HTML is filtering through it doesn't say much about AT&Ts 3g network, or EDGE for that matter. Just says people with iPhones like to browse the web.
word, seriously stop using that argument. The only reason AT&T's market-share of smart-phones shot up to being that way was because of something called the iPhone??? Though I don't think, and so do many other editors/reviewers/consumers think it's a true smartphone, it's been put in that category. They've come out with the iPhone 1st gen, then the iPhone 3G, and now the iPhone 3GS. Those single handedly are the reasons why AT&T has "3 times more the market-share" then Verizon in smart-phones.
Also, put this article by Cnet into consideration people: Is the iPhone hurting AT&T's brand?
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-10365952-266.html
Verizon is the best.
At raising early termination fees and charging for airtime you never actually used.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/technology/personaltech/12pogue-email.html?_r=1
I'm just tired of my iPhone dropping calls.
A 30% dropped call rate is ridiculous and should be regulated.
True that! AT&T has always sucked and is only still alive because they got the iPhone (after Verizon denied Apple).
Chad,
Don't forget charging people out the ass for undesired 'data' usage as a corporate strategy, then telling customer service reps to NOT ALLOW customers to disable data usage to avoid getting overbilled (in the same article you linked).
Glad I don't live in SF or NYC for many reasons. Constant dropped calls are only one of those reasons. ATT sure doesn't have the best coverage in the world, but it works as well as any network I've ever used for my purposes, and I don't have to get scammed by Verizon which is nice. Still waiting for my part of the Verizon ETF class action settlement.
@Chad
If you think AT&T won't be raising their ETF to match Verizon's, you're kidding yourself. AT&T and Verizon's policies are only different in the short period of time in between one of them making a move, and the other one catching up.
Now that's what Im talking about!!!!!!
Ma' bell just hit the wall!!
Let's face it, AT&T service really sucks, especially in Manhattan!!!*
*AT&T has the nation's fastest 3G network. This network covers 233 million people or 75% of the population. All AT&T 3G devices connect to AT&T's EDGE network covering 301 million people or 96% of the population. With both 3G and EDGE coverage, customers can access the Internet, send e-mail, surf the Web, stream music, download videos, send photos, text, talk and more. The only difference --CONNECTION TERMINATED--
And Verizon "denying" Apple was obviously a big mistake. Not something to be proud of.
@Hey Ya
Who said anything about AT&T? I have and love my T-Mobile service where I live. If I traveled a lot I might feel different but I don't. I don't particularly like either AT&T or Verizon. You might want to actually read the article I linked to since it's about more than the ETF.
Not something to be proud of, and a bad move in hindsight, but really not that stupid on their part.
Apple didn't roll in and say "Hey, we have this device that we think is pretty cool. Would you like to have it on your network?"
They rolled in with zero experience/credibility in the phone building industry and made demands for an unprecedented type of hardware maker to service provider agreement. That's why the first gen iPhone didn't make it into so many markets. Apple had a hard time finding people who would bend to their will. AT&T took the gamble and won.
Now, the relationship between Apple and the service providers is more normal (still not completely though, Apple got some well deserved bargaining power for creating such a successful product). Because of this, the iPhone is available pretty much everywhere.
This is a matter of opinion and circumstance. Personally, I switched from Verizon to AT&T and have been nothing but happy so far. While Verizon's network was clearly superior in coverage, where I live I've got perfect 3G coverage, and I have perfect EDGE coverage where my parents live (mediocre 3G, but there will be new towers soon I'm told). Until a year ago, there was only 1xRTT coverage from Verizon where my parents lived, and that didn't even allow me to send MMS, let alone connect to the web or VCast or any other service. EV-DO coverage is now great there, but here's the catch: it's not actually Verizon towers. Ergo, whenever I'm at my parent's house, I'm in an "Extended Network," meaning that all of Verizon's services are unavailable. Even with EDGE on AT&T, I can still access the entire Internet and all services with my iPhone, and my parents can still use all of their services with their Samsung dumbphones. Now, I understand that this is not the majority case, but it is my case, so for me it's hard to say that "Verizon is the best."
Then comes the matter of price and options. Verizon's prices for features are by and large expensive. I was paying $10 a month for 500 messages, per line. With AT&T, I can get unlimited messages on all the phones on my plan for $30 a month. Overage charges at Verizon were a joke, and considering that they don't offer rollover minutes, I was none too happy about the $20 overage charges for going 30 minutes over my minute limit one month, despite the fact that I had been about 600 minutes below the limit every month for the 3 and half years before that. Then the phones: they have a decent selection of dumbphones, but half the time they've dumbed them down even worse than stock because they use their own proprietary (crap) OS. Go ahead and read online about the crap they pulled with the Razr V3; it's not pretty. Their smartphone selection is getting better with Droid, but when I was a customer, it was pretty muchBlackberry or Windows... and neither are going to do a good job of taking advantage of that "superior" network. This isn't even mentioning the crap they pull with their smartphones (like removing WiFi and memory). But, this is a largely personal choice, so if you argue that Verizon doesn't have the iPhone or the Pre, one could also argue that AT&T and Sprint don't have Droid, so that's just a preference thing.
But to say that Verizon is the best just because they have the best coverage is, to be honest, just an opinion. I've never had a dropped call with either Verizon or AT&T, so I'll go with the one that can give me more features for less money.
I disagree with the data charges on lines without data plans, it happened to my brother and dad a couple of times since we switched to the new "Nationwide" plan. What should be done is that the first MB every month is free, so in case of any accidental button presses they won't ever add up to be that much. Still, there is some misinformation. The data charges are cumulative, it's not $1.99 every time the internet is accessed. Also, it's now possible to change most of the buttons on the dumbphones to functions other than the internet, and even better: you can log into your account online and block data right there in 2 minutes. A service rep will also do this for you with no problem - saying they won't is not true, and if that was the case, it's so easy to do it online.
Seriously though who gives a shit. They are both giant telecoms that could give a crap about you, the customer, and bend you over at every single opportunity they can possibly take. I love how people argue about it as if these Corporations actually care about the consumer. Please! They don't care and the FCC needs to crack down on all of them, not just AT&T or Verizon they all do shady business even the Cable provides (looking at Comcast) need to be audited for their business practices and policies. There is a lot of stink that needs to be looked at, and they owe us the consumer a lot of money and explanation for their crap service and policies.
Who cares if Verizon "cares" about me as a person. They are more interested in optimizing the customer experience for as many of their customers as possible. I have no delusions that they are doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. They strive to provide the best customer experience possible because that will net them more customers and make them more money.
If things change, and Verizon starts sucking it up, I'm gone. I have no allegiance, but for now... they are the best for me.
It's pretty damn good but Sprint is cheaper, also has the same speeds on EVDO Rev. A, and roams for free on Verizon towers when you are in a Verizon-only area. VZW does definitely have the more extensive network but when you roam on it free for less, I think you get the better deal.
I'm using a T-Mobile G1 on AT&T's network (it's locked to EDGE) and while I've never had any issues with dropped calls, I don't live in an extremely densely populated area either. Bandwidth speeds are around 50kbps-200kbps and EDGE data is very iffy (there are many dead spots).
IME, all carriers suck. They just suck in different ways (and levels) in different locations.
I live in San Diego. I started with Sprint many years back and I couldn't use my phone at home unless I walked outside into my front driveway. I finally switched to Verizon who was marginally better. When I canceled the Sprint account, the rep on the phone wondered if I'd stay with them if I got a discount. I asked him what good would that do when I couldn't use my phone inside my house? He, of course, had no answer to that and closed the account out.
Another couple years later I switched back to Sprint when they got the Treo 650s and had vastly improved their coverage in my area. I was relatively happy with them for some time.
Now I have AT&T because I wanted an iPhone. Yes, I have drunk mightily from the Apple kool-aid and find that it goes down very well. Sue me. :P In the last 14 months I've had it (a 3G) my experience has been mostly very good. Coverage has been great at most places. I've had a few places I don't visit very often that had little to no signal (or I dropped to Edge) but to be honest, it's been no worse then either Sprint or Verizon are. I've had exactly 1 dropped call that I know was my end (ironically my dad, on Verizon, drops while talking me to quite often while I have full signal), I'll caveat that with I'm not much of a phone user. I txt far more, and those never fail for me. I also use the ipod functionality, gps and other apps tons more then the phone. Having it all in one unit is what won me over though.
I'm going to count the number of times I've canceled a contract in my life and had to pay an early termination fee... wait for it:
0
What are you doing wrong?
So let me get this straight. Some Engadget editor (not an engineer mind you) puts up a picture of an App running on an iPhone and uses it as "proof" that there are severe network deficiencies? All the while the guy with the $50 Nokia standing next to him is having no such problems! Could it be that some phones have CRAP ASS RADIOS?! Why not also add phone radio tests to the equation?
The other big issue at play here is not new but a typical corporate one and that is, how do you remain subjective when one side in the debate is PAYING YOU TO POST GINORMOUS ADS ON YOUR BLOG. ZiEGGLER PLEASE!!!
So is Sprint, we may not have the size of Verizon but our tech is the same and we roam on your massive network .. for free ;)
I wish Verizon would buy Sprint and combine their networks and crush Att to non existence.
BUT KEEP SPRINTS PRICING!!
Also, Does Sprint has the fastest internet? Yes both 3G and 4G.
@johnson4412
Hate to break it to you but you get unlimited texting on all lines on Verizon for $30 a month as well, so not sure how you see that as paying "more for less." And no, coverage is not a "matter of opinion." Great, you are in one of the few places where AT&T has better coverage for Verizon. It is not like that for most of the country. So venture outside of your personal bubble and see what most of the country sees: an overcrowded AT&T network that can't handle the strain of 10 million + iPhone users.
Cost to publish a blog: $10
Cost to build nationwide wireless voice & data network: $50,000,000
Destined to write for a blog for life: Priceless!
realistically, nobody here should care about which cell service someone else prefers, but something about the Verizon nut jobs creep me out. You guys are like a freaking cult. So I gotta add my two cents here.
I agree with the high ranked poster above that switched to AT&T. It may suck for certain areas, but I get fantastic coverage in the capital region of upstate NY. Every time I check my phone with a Verizon user near me, we have similar signal strength. Only when I'm in seriously rural areas will I get a lapse in coverage, but even then I can manage to make and keep calls. So I guess, in short, sucks for you guys in the city, AT&T is fantastic for me around where I live and where I work.
No, this quote: "AT&T has sparsely detailed its LTE plans and isn't expected to go live with any markets until 2011 at the earliest." I think what is most important here is that AT&T plans to double their spectrum... wouldn't that be the most important factor in giving voice and data more room to breathe? It may slightly improve speeds of the current technology, but doubling the spectrum for AT&T would rid the congested areas of the incredibly high dropped call rate. Wouldn't do much for rural areas lacking coverage, but meh. Verizon, on the other hand, can't afford more spectrum, as EVDO already requires a buttfull to operate.
In my humble opinion, defending a cellular carrier is like trying to view the positive personality features of Hitler, but I do view AT&T as the lesser of the two evils. Sprint is awesome for pretty much leading the price wars, and T-Mobile is awesome for saying no to the CIA. Neither Verizon or AT&T are awesome. But I didn't know any of this crap years ago when I switched, and as much as I hate Apple and want freedom from the iPhone, I have yet to see a better mobile web experience, and that's my #1 feature in a cellphone right now. I'm gonna click Add Comment before I go on a tangent on mobile OS's and emerging cellphone hardware.
I can't believe I have a girlfriend 0_o
at&t on my htc tilt is pretty much awesome... the girlfiend's iphone when she's standing next to me at the same location is sometimes subpar. I NEVER drop calls on at&t with the tilt. she's often asking me if there's a firmware update because her iphone is frustrating. sooo I think the hardware has much to do with the dropped call issue.
The iphone has one problem. It is not that great of a phone. It does everything else quite well though....
Ouch! Thems is fightin' words. Watch AT&T pull their ads and sue Engadget too!
I'm Chris Zeigler and, you don't wanna rile me man.
You messed with the wrong mother f***er today, AT&T.
I'm like a cyclone, wrapped in a hurricane, nestled in a box of tsunamis.
"I'm like a cyclone, wrapped in a hurricane, nestled in a box of tsunamis."
He might be an N900!
This article really lays down the smack.
Then again, I recommend people DON'T read AppleInsider anyways. It's one of those rare cases where reading makes you stupider.
@Sisyphus
Love the David Cross reference...one of the best out there!
Are you also super fly TNT and the guns of the Navaronne?
Bend over and take it AT&T. The truth hurts really bad sometimes. :)
Truth... is it too late to change my penis's name?
Wierd how everyone is hating on AT&T, while they take VZ customers nationwide at a rate of 3-1, have better net gains in customer base and lower churn. Maybe if verizon had a heavy data device which over 10 million of their customers were using, you would have a different experience. Truth is, VZ has jack for phones, and their consumer base is mostly feature phones, not PDA's. In fact, at the rate AT&T is snatching up customers, they'll overtake VZ within the year. Truth hurts
Called ATT a few weeks back, they will let me cancel all four accounts at no charge!
North phoenix sucks for AT&T, going to Verizon.
Really??? My parents live at fireside in north Phoenix next to a mountain and just switched from Verizon to AT&T cause they couldnt get a signal.
Im not saying AT&T is better, It just matters on what works for you. Obviously Verizon "the nations best carrier" was not working for them, so they switched.
If you cant call or receive a call, What the hell do u have that company for. For all of you that have at&t and have a iphone in new york ect... then get the F**K off my network and switch already I am tired of hearing you bi**h.
woah! Put the gun down man!!
Hey Engadget I have a serious question. Is it possible for you guys to do a test (data and voice) of AT&T's network with different phones other than the iPhone. I know AT&T's network is pretty bad (especially in crowded cities like NYC) but I haven't had any problems with my Nokia. And because the iPhone is pretty much the most popular phone on AT&T, any other phone is easily overshadowed. What do you guys think?
I'm not positive, but I think josh alluded to this in one of the recent podcasts.... that the iphone seemingly dropped calls more frequently than some of the blackberries that were also on ATT's network.
Anyway, i would be interested as well in some comparison of phones on the ATT network and call drop frequency.
So how come you get ranked up for asking for someone to get together and organize a *real* test, but I get ranked down for it?
Nonsensical much?
@nerdtalker
haha i have no idea. For awhile there I was getting worried that everybody was ignoring it.
*sigh*
I just want some real hard evidence. I don't care either way. It just doesn't add up for me that's all.
Cudos to Verizon though for taking a stab at them