YouTube pulls a Hulu -- yanking API access from Popcorn Hour (Update: Google responds)
By Richard Lawler 
posted November 20th 2009 11:59AM
posted November 20th 2009 11:59AM
Update: After speaking with Alex we've got a better view of the situation -- as is clear from the TOS, manufacturers streaming directly via the API as Popcorn Hour did are no longer welcome without cutting a seven figure check to license access. Google did offer to allow continued access via its YouTube XL interface, but for devices like theirs not built around Flash, that possible solution proved to be technologically unfeasible. Obviously these changes apply to all, but as of yet we're not aware of anyone other than Popcorn Hour that has been contacted directly about it.
Update v2: After the break is Google's response, stating Popcorn Hour and the like have been in violation of the above TOS for over a year, from its perspective, this is a simple matter of defending its rights from "video scraping technology." As we mentioned above that means most are in no danger of losing access, but fans of these media streamers will have to live without it, until either YouTube can control the experience or the manufacturer pays up.
Google's statement:
Since July of 2008, YouTube's Terms of Service has restricted implementations for televisions based on our APIs. YouTube has been in active discussions with various developers on how best to implement YouTube on set top boxes and TVs. There are several companies, however, that have deployed solutions, like video scraping technology, to circumvent the rules and violate YouTube's Terms of Service. Companies that have negotiated agreements to use our APIs, like TiVo, Sony, Panasonic and PS3 are not impacted.
great :-(
@Robin Jacobs Google flexing their muscle. We all knew it would happen sooner or later.
"Do no evil" as long as the evil is directed outward I guess that phrase doesn't apply.
Anyone knows if PlayOn was effected by this?
@Robin Jacobs
it's funny, these content providers just KEEP shooting themselves in the foot. Awesome. Hey, by the way, maybe they should take a note from the music industry's demise.
@Jon: Google is not a content provider.
@John Stracke Read the TOS on YouTube, which is Owned by Google.
Google is most certainly a content provider. I just can't wait to see if the pull a stunt like this with all the books they have gathered rights to distribute.
Not that I would watch a whole lot of Youtube stuff on my TV anyway... but will we ever get to the point where we will have ONE box hooked to the TV to get everything?
If these companies think Internet streaming to your TV is so important... I don't want half a dozen boxes hooked to my TV.
Oh well... laptop ---> 46" LCD still works....
Boo-Tube :(
I need to buy stock in MediaMall ASAP. That PlayOn investment is looking smarter and smarter every day.
Youtube has gone down the tube lately....
@N900
Youtube is pulling an Apple.
@N900
True with all the copyright issues it's not as fun as it use to be. It's sad when you can't post a video you made on a site because the song you decided to us is copyrighted by Viacom... =P
@INTERNET SUPERHERO
Well, copyright issues - The fact that Viacom or anyone else for that matter holds the rights on certain music is ok by me. No offense to your video - it might be brilliant as I have not seen it - but if someone makes a piece of music, they should have the right to say what it is attached to.
As someone who works in media, I constantly have to get releases for images, video, audio, actors, blah, blah. Total pain. Yet at the same time I don't want my finished work given away to anyone either without obtaining a release from me too.
@Brian!: Copyright has gone out of control. It's too bad nobody can stand up for Mozart's rights, and sue anyone who uses his music! Or the numerous story creators that Disney has ripped off over the years (the most blatant example of hypocrisy in the history of the world).
it is the main reason that HTPC rules over other propietary machine, read :xbox360, popcorn and ps3.
@Magallanes
I fully agree with you. My dream is to have a small fast computer hooked up to an HDTV. I can't wait to have an HDTV and some spare cash for the computer.
@Magallanes My concern is what happens when enough people go for HTPCs. How will the network choads handle their content when most of the computers accessing Hulu and YouTube are connected to TVs?
@CtrlBurn
Uh, how will they know?
I'm planning to pick up an ASRock Ion 330HT, and load Windows 7 on the thing. From a display standpoint, they won't be able to tell if it's hooked up to a 22" monitor, or my 52" LCD TV.
Well, that's somewhat evil of them.
@futurepastnow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil
Apparently that is more of a guide, than a rule. This is why I don't trust Google. Wolf in sheep's clothing. "No, we're the good tech company, not like the other evil ones!"
@futurepastnow
Probably has a lot to to with advertising revenue. Youtube has never been a very profitable venture. If the API isn't advertisement friendly aside from the annoying in bottom of window ads that pop up on the regular interfaces, it may simply boil down to money. I don't recall seeing adds on Youtube streams on the iPhone. I have never used a Popcorn device so I can't speak for the presence or lack of ads on those devices. However, if devices that could bypass the majority of the ads that Google makes money got too popular and affected the revenue stream or increased costs by going the API route then Google would be forced to respond. I'm not saying its right, I'm not saying it a good PR move, but it's a business decision and Google is going to have to deal with the fallout.
@kal326 Although that certainly makes sense, it would be a bit hypocritical of them to block some third-party devices (Popcorn Hour) and not others (iPhone) for not showing their ads.
Well there is this part that stands out from the article, "as is clear from the TOS, manufacturers streaming directly via the API as Popcorn Hour did are no longer welcome without cutting a seven figure check to license access."
It may be that cutting a seven figure check to keep popcorn working the way it is isn't in their business model.
Is this including Apple TV? Will I lose my YouTube feature on that or PS3?
@David Olivo I dont' think so. I was on it last night and even my iPhone still works so it looks OK.
If all else fails use the browser. I don't think that uses any API.
Actually, it starts December 2nd, not immediately, so everything works for now (unless the manufacturer pulled it in advance).
That being said, given how cozy Google and Apple have been, I'd be surprised if they pulled it from Apple TV. I just hope they don't pull support from Boxee.
From an ethical standpoint though, YouTube shouldn't be doing this at all, given how it's dependent on user-generated content. I'd say "lets organize a boycott", but boycotts only work against imaginary French magazines.
That's a bit stupid - many people access YouTube through their Wii to watch and share videos with their friends. I understand though that Samsung sets will continue to have access, so that's alright for us. Still, I can't understand the logic behind this...
@r3loaded
They'll only yanking support for external apps that access youtube.
When viewing youtube on your wii your using the internet channel, which is perfectly fine and will not be blocked.
This trend is normal, things should get back to normal with time.
@Entourage
I'm not defending google but this reminds me allot of what has happend with Netflix.
This is why I am happy I built an HTPC. Google became a little bit less likable today.
@glenn s
The new Hulu-ish Terms of Service (section II, item 10) restricts API clients from the ability to "use the YouTube API in connection with any API Client created for use on television set top boxes, television game consoles, or video screens packaged and marketed as television sets;"
Is your HTPC connected to a TV? If so it ain't legal and I suspect it won't be long before a piece of youtube software checks what your "viewing screen" is.
@Jay Evans Going to youtube.com and watching videos is not the same as using the youtube API. A web browser like Firefox wouldn't fall into the category of "any API Client created for use on television set top boxes, television game consoles, or video screens packaged and marketed as television sets"
@CtrlBurn
I think you are correct. The TV does not matter, unless the TV itself is pulling in youtube using the API. Otherwise it is just a monitor. And besides, I will soon be moving to a front projector without a tuner in it, so that does not count as a TV. So I can thumb my nose at google/youtube and say "Oh, you think my screen is too big. HAHAHA, I'm going to make it even BIGGER to get around you silly rule."
(Why do my comments now show up as 'unverified' even though I am logged in?)
@glenn s
Log out and log back in. It should ask you to give a username. Go to the Engadget update story.
@glennS
It costs them a fortune to run youtube, other companies are trying to leach of them. Why is it evil of google to try and get their expenses covered by the people using their service?
@eeekthesneak
I said they are 'less likable'. Not sure how you got from that to 'evil'.
Are they keeping the device specific areas of their website for the PS3 etc?
@bdav I'm not completely sure. I was using it last night and it ran like total crap. I'm on Fiber so everything else is great. Just not that YouTube XL garbage.
Their storage, their bandwidth, their rules.
There's gotta be a strategy behind it. By choosing its partners it gains another revenue stream.
@ChaoZ : Except that unlike Hulu, YouTube is built on the back of user-generated content. Sure it's their bandwidth, but they wouldn't need the bandwidth if people didn't post anything.
@Alan Strangis True.
But it costs money to run the servers to store the content. They are supported by advertisements.
If you watch the youtube content on your TV without seeing the ads, then Youtube won't get paid by the advertisers. Which means they will have to shut down.
When you watch TV, the content is paid for by the annoying advertisements that parade across the screen for 25 minutes out of every hour. Youtube content on your TV will have to be formatted to allow for the same sort of annoying revenue generators.
I'm wondering if youtube can't slip-stream ads into the the video streams via the device-centric API like they do in the Flash versions like the normal site and the XL site?
If I understand correctly, the problem is exactly that they can't show ads if someone is using the API.
Half the crap on youtube is useless anyway, but regardless this is absolutely ridiculous. Hopefully Youtube, Hulu and other web content companies can learn to play nice with these devices and the future Boxee device.
Only half?
@emeraldringer Okay everything except the illegal content (which by NO means includes horrible remixes of popular comedy skits or peoples' reactions to 2 chics deckin it out over a cup of feces)
Very uncool.
Oh well YouTube is naff anyway..90% of the content on their is illegal...stop making silly rules for yourselves. Popcorn Hour rules :-)
This is one of the main reasons I went with a MacMini as my media connection to my TV... It is an actual computer and (more likely) won't get locked out of services like this.
That's a real bummer for people who just ponied up for a Popcorn Hour.