http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
It will most definitely profitable.

You only have to look at China. No one can afford an official iPhone so you get plenty of KIRFs. Where as Nokia with their extensive catalogue from cheap to high end phones covers all possible markets. Someones first phone in China could possible be a nokia, and since you are more likely going to continue on buying a brand you are used to, they'll replace their phone with another nokia.]]>Dec 1st 2009 5:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Too simplistic and flawed. Selling millions of phones does not make one profitable. Sure, Apple has sold millions but they have TONS of profits beyond the manufacturing costs. It's all about margin and there is little margin when you're selling cheap.

The whole argument about buying brands your safe is true but not true 100% of the time. I think my first phone was a Nokia, one of those free ones with a one year contract. I think my second was a Samaung, and now the iPhone. Nokia prides itself in selling the higher end phones in the USA (the market this article was written towards.) And during times when they need to innovate to stay ahead these days and don't, it's hard to keep customers due to brand loyalty.]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
do you have any idea of how many Nokia Kirfs are sold in China?]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
You know how many iphones r sold in China? MILLIONS, and Apple just signed a 5 million exclusive deal with one of the major telcos in China (unbundled unlike the rest of the world are getting). Just because most KIRFs are manufactured there doesnt mean they cant afford iphones.
And I wouldnt call US market a high end market as well JP cellphone makers have been putting cutting edge technologies into their cellphones for ages. things you probably have never heard of and will not for the next 2-3 years]]>Dec 1st 2009 8:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Nokia has got 2 bullets in the head since Apple and Blackberry launched their High end devices. Knowing that the prices of these devices are going to decrease gradually will complicate Nokia's situation. Moreover, If Apple and Blackberry invade what so called the low end Cellphone industry, Nokia will be burried immediatelly due to the fact that it has nomore competitve edge, except pricing .]]>Dec 1st 2009 9:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
What about the future of Nokla then?]]>Dec 1st 2009 10:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Dec 3rd 2009 3:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Nokia's fine. At least overseas.]]>Dec 1st 2009 5:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Everyone's been wondering what's the future of Nokia and talks of doomed ever since they stepped out of the limelight. But can't they just be fine.]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:30PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Totally agree with you. I just came back from Asia. Nokia is doing pretty well in countries like Thailand, Singapore, Hong Kong and China. Those Nokia phones are not KIRF Nokia's either, they're real Nokia phones. You also can see Nokia stores in pretty much every shopping malls there.]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Does the N900 have MMS yet? ]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Agreed.

Michael, and Engadget in general, doesn't realise that there's 300 million people in the US and over 2 billion people in India and China. Now guess which market is more important to Nokia? The iPhone has bombed in both Asian countries.]]>Dec 1st 2009 7:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Profit margins matter much more than the size of the audience.

Theoretically, if Apple is making $100 per phone in the US and Nokia is making $10 per phone in Asia, Apple is going to be more profitable.

That isn't to say that the smartphone market here in the US is as big as the dumbphone market in Asia. I'm just making up numbers to emphasize the importance of profit margin in our calculations.

Just because Nokia sells more phones doesn't mean they are making more money.]]>Dec 1st 2009 11:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Dec 2nd 2009 3:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
The perception now is that Nokia is a junk mobile phone for poor people. People with cash buy Blackberry, iPhone or HTC and there's no surprise here, Nokia used to be the best, now they produce only junk. There's absolutely no innovation in their products. Using Nokia here is now even unfashionable.

Considering that they've lost Indonesia - one of the largest markets for mobile phone manufacturers - I see completely no future for this company. I even predict that in 3 years they'll be going bankrupt. Just look at their financial reports, sales going down everywhere.]]>Dec 2nd 2009 9:19AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Dec 2nd 2009 9:32AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Bullshit. From Canlsys:

http://www.canalys.com/pr/2009/r2009112.htm

"Nokia remains the smart phone volume leader by some distance and its share is stable year on year. In Q3 it suffered somewhat from component shortages as suppliers reduced capacity due to the overall market slowdown, but while its smart phone volume was down 10% in EMEA year on year, in the APAC region 29% growth put it comfortably ahead of the market average."

So where are your stats? Other than your ass?]]>Dec 2nd 2009 5:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
http://investors.nokia.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=107224&p=irol-newquarterlyearnings

"At constant currency, Devices & Services net sales would have decreased 20%. The net sales decline resulted primarily from lower volumes, combined with the ASP decline, compared with the third quarter 2008."

"Nokia’s share of the converged mobile device market was an estimated 35% in the third quarter 2009, at the same level as in the third quarter 2008 and down from 41% in the second quarter 2009."

"Our year on year market share was higher in Europe, Latin America and Middle East & Africa. This was offset by lower market share in Greater China, Asia-Pacific and North America. Sequentially, our market share declined in Greater China, Asia- Pacific, Middle East & Africa and North America, but was offset by our increased market share in Europe and Latin America."
]]>Dec 2nd 2009 9:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Uh... that refers to all sales, not converged devices (smartphones) which are up. Try again.]]>Dec 4th 2009 2:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Dec 1st 2009 5:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Well said.]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Is Nokia's flagship phones sucking a symptom unique to the US?]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Nonsense? I think it was very well written and I agree with pretty much everything. And I'm in Europe, using a Nokia, too. Nokia is behind in some aspects, and having a more unified platform is much needed for them to compete in the smartphone market.

That being said, the US is a weird market, where phones get released by carriers, not phone manufacturers. And if you want to use a certain phone you're pretty much forced to use a certain carrier and its rules and limitations...
Perhaps Nokia doesn't want to play these games and that's why it's not as popular (subsidized) in the US. Maybe this was not emphasized enough in the article, but nevertheless it's a well written piece.]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Agreed]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Dec 1st 2009 7:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Yup, Nokia's dominant in almost every country except the US. In my opinion, Nokia being unsuccessful in the US does not mean that they are not being innovative. They might lack a little for the most users here on Engadget, but for the business and common user they're great. Easy to use, straightforward, things that are important in today's market. My mom and dad for example are simply never going to be able to understand a WinMo or Blackberry device, hence they're using Nokia phones. People often forget that more (features in this case) is not always better. Keeping it simple is the way to go to address the largest amount of users, and Nokia's doing exactly that.]]>Dec 1st 2009 7:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
I've been a longtime fan of Nokia (1st Nokia phone - N95 original UK version costing $700). Had the N95 for 2 years, before I went to the 5800, E71 and N97. While the 5800 and E71 weren't the horror that the N97 was, they were still not upto par with their competitors.
It's such a shame to see my favorite cell company go down. But they are just not innovating enough.
The ONLY product from Nokia which makes me give up the 3GS is their N900. Which again does not have AT&T 3G band.
They should lead the markets again with Quadband GSM & 3G. That'd be tight!

Ohh, and more capacitive screen devices. With fluid UI, their 5mpx camera with flash and a revamped Symbian OS...it would be a winner!]]>Dec 1st 2009 5:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
That explains what happens to companies when they become too big and begin resting on their laurels. Microsoft did it and gave *Unix a chance to creep up on it, Intel did it before when AMD was mopping the floor with pentiums clock for clock, and Nokia is not exempt from this weakness. The beauty of competition is that it gives companies a wake up call when they are fucking up.

If anybody at Nokia HQ is reading this: Quit rehashing the N95 in different form factors + this or - that. We are done with your 2 year old 5 mpx Carl Zeis lens, slider phones, and comparatively weak CPU's: its time to get with the program. I saw the old Omnia i900 play PSX @ 60fps with Winmo.

Simplify your services and product line and innovate more. We want an all in one device that means OLED, Xenon Flash, 5+ mpx cam, Divx, HDMI or display port out, native SIP, printing a la E71, IR, CPU that isn't weaker than the competition's, hardware video acceleration, and 3.8"+ display, Physical slide out or detachable magnetic Bluetooth keyboards with good tactile feedback so my thumbs wont kill me after 20 min of typing like the N97 did. Space bar goes in the MIDDLE, keys should be a little separated and 4 rows. + Maemo 6 plz.

I could care less about an app store but mainstream ppl do so get that OVI stuff and all the services together into one site (including grape vine and sports tracker). DO some good marketing showing how much money ppl can save dropping all that cash on your "flagship" phone against paying extra for Nike sports tracker for iphone, saving $ by making SIP calls, not paying extra monthly for GPS, not paying extra for accessories like fm transmitter and gps docks and buying apps on iPhones for stuff that is already built into your phones. You have all the cards nobody else has: You make your own *quality tested* hardware, make your own "open" software, own your own services, have full blown linux. Maemo supports Python programming for god's sake! Better than Java (Android) in my humble opinion. There should be no reason why you are losing market share!

I'm going to stop there before I write a book but I will gladly continue if you pay me.

K Thx Bye

PS: Your phones are not that hard to use but they should have 2 usage modes that changes the entire UI: A dumb one for regular folks and an advanced one for power users.]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Dec 1st 2009 5:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
oh, and yeah, your right on that nokia stuff. only thing left for them is to follw, the chance the lead is long gone. as long as the make stuff people care about, fine. but they sure as heck wont crack the american market at all.]]>Dec 1st 2009 5:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Why don't you just use the stylish addon for FF https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2108 and use this style http://userstyles.org/styles/22701 to fix it; or make your own. It fixes the font issue, and removes some of the crap from the homepage. ]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:07PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
I totally agree. Learn the difference between internet and print, Engadget! Serif fonts are a bitch to read on a computer screen.

And no, I'm not going to switch to Firefox and install some crazy add-in to fix Engadget's fonts.]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Thank you so much!

My eyes no longer feel like they are trying to look at the sun through a telescope!]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Dec 1st 2009 8:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Dec 1st 2009 5:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
"There's more to the world than the US and North America, but if you're going to remain cutting-edge and relevant it's not a market that can be ignored."

The largest problem here is probably the carriers themselves. All operating on different technologies/frequencies, it's at odds with the rest of the world. And when partnering up with a carrier, they call the shots, making both software and hardware decicions. In a lot of Nokia's other markets, carriers are just someone that meters the usage between the callers, and that's it. They're just an information highway.

You don't see Dell or HP designing laptops with features taken out for use with specific ISP's, because these ISP's use some magical different TCP/IP than the rest of the world.

So yes, it's a possible problem for Nokia that they don't have dominance in the US, but it's not really Nokia that is to blame for not rolling over to the demands of a draconian carrier business that is as far from supply and demand and fair competition as is possible.]]>Dec 1st 2009 5:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Great point!]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
True, Nokia isn't used to dealing with carriers as partners. They should rethink that for the US market, as the US market isn't the same environment as their native European market.]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
With them not having a large foot-hold in the US, considering how different the market is and all, it might simply not be cost-effective to develop/change handsets for the US market, when they might not be a huge success.

So maybe Nokia is just willing to say f*ck it, and have the rest of the world instead :)]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Very well put. Just as you don't buy your customized PC from the ISP you shouldn't be forced to buy your phone from the carrier.

Although, in Europe we mostly buy subsidized phones as well, but at least we're mostly free to buy the same phone from various carriers and use its functions without limitations. I switched 3 carriers in the last 2 years, just because they came up with better plans, and I never had to worry about phone compatibility..]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
i think the US carriers should rethink their role in all of this, i'm sure that if one of them stopped being such an arse and changed into a dumb information conduit, all others would be forced to follow.

because i personally can't imagine anybody stupid enough to stay with a typical US carrier if there was any alternative. they should just stay out of firmwares and stop offering their extra services that nobody needs.


here (in an obscure part of europe) the mobile service providers are just there to make it possible for you to use your phone, you just sign a contract and pay your monthly bills and that's all, you never hear from them again, there is no sign of a "customized" firmware in my phone and if i wanted i could get another provider's SIM card today and start using it with my phone (all of them even use the same frequencies). That would be none of my original provider's business as long as i paid what i signed the contract for.]]>Dec 1st 2009 7:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
How obscure of a part of Europe? Moldova? Transnistria?]]>Dec 1st 2009 7:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Dec 1st 2009 10:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Dec 2nd 2009 12:58AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Slovenia


on an unrelated note: what do i need to do to make my real nickname show up instead of "(Unverified)"?]]>Dec 2nd 2009 4:43AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Why would Nokia ever want to do that???

And even supporting the weird US frequencies and mobile standards is ... not worth the small market. Really, get on with the times and use GSM and proper 3G like the rest of the world.

I don't know how locked in users are in the US, but here in EU everyone realizes that you pay much more for a phone when get it subsidized, because of the lock-in contract. That's why almost all phone users in EU buy regular unlocked phones and go from one carrier to another when rates change or carriers offer some special deals (keeping the number, of course).

Nokia is well off and the Maemo direction looks to be a great platform for the future of a cool phone company. US marked is a skewed monstrosity that is a tiny fraction of the global phone market and has no impact on the rest of the world.]]>Dec 2nd 2009 1:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/]]>Dec 1st 2009 5:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/Dec 1st 2009 6:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Also Symbian will not disappear anytime soon. Even if we forget the millions of worldwide users, the foundation is working hard on a road map that by Symbian^3 & ^4 offers a completely different UI/UX than anything today + has Qt as its app layer. Qt is the same layer used on maemo and apps developed on it can be ported amongst x86 (mac/pc),maemo,symbian & win-mo without much troubles!

These points have been made else-where but I guess the "wise ones" are more interested in spelling Nokia's doom!?]]>Dec 1st 2009 10:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/entelligence-whats-the-future-of-nokia/
Hate to tell you this but EVERY business in the world is there for profit not for relevance or influence.

This is all US centric and lets face it the US has the most illogical splintered mobile networks in the world, and yes any phone manufacturer CAN afford to ignore the US because there is a HUGE market outside the US.]]>Dec 1st 2009 6:03PM