Nokia's Kamppi Trial succeeds at indoor positioning, gets shelved anyway (video)
By Tim Stevens 
posted December 22nd 2009 10:15AM
posted December 22nd 2009 10:15AM
Sure, GPS can get you to the mall, but can it route you from the Bon Ton down to Penney's? Not so much. Indoor navigation is still generally a paper map reliant affair, something Nokia attempted to do away with at the Kamppi Shopping Center in Helsinki. The service, also called Kamppi, relied on wireless LAN to position people within the complex, meaning anyone with an S60 handset with WiFi could simply browse to kamppi.nokia.mobi, see their current position, locate their friends, and find their way around as shown after the break. 15,000 people tried it out successfully over the summer and so the service is receiving a fitting send-off: it's been "archived." Nokia is pledging to use the tech in future products, but we expect to be reliant on those giant, obelisk-mounted maps for many years to come. 
AT&T were experimenting with something like this in Cambridge about 10 years ago using wireless badges like those worn by the crew of the Star Ship Enterprise in Star Trek. Be great in those situations where a friend you have not seen for years is by co-incidence a few hundred feet away, yet you would never know without a system like this.
I know its hard for people outside of Finland to know this...
But what happens is that MANY of Nokia projects are born with small R&D projects and then being developed to another big thing.
The point that, this blog, fails to mention and tries to push on everyones head is that Nokia is dying... a slow giant... or whatever.
Getting "shelved" from a beta lab isnt much. I dont see the same outcry when Google or another company decides to do the same with their beta lab project.
@Mr w00t What outcry? Think you're reading way too much into this post.
@Mr w00t
Uhhh.... what are you talking about dying? Nokia is not small fry that will just bleed to death. They have a huge portfolio of R&D and products. They maybe in a slump, but definately not dying. Lots of companies have slumps. Google has not been around that long. It will hit a slump eventually as well.
Also, don't forget, Hardware research can in no way be compared to software research. Hardware research is like Materials research. They will always be around because in the end everything is a hardware/materials problem.
@Mr w00t
Riiight... just like how nokia is 'wasting' their efforts with the whole ovi services - when they can't even deliver timely firmware updates across the clusterfuck of regionized models their portfolio of phones has.
nokia is happily gallivanting in the same size shoes the US automobile industry wears apparently... not acknowledging their decline and failures over the past 3 years. they choose to use their money instead to compete with google maps while bringing nothing new to the table.
They need to focus more on their consumers - read 'go through the fucking nokia forums and address some of the more basic problem with your corporate strategy/ handsets/ markets.
@Mr w00t Nokia fanboys really are defensive these days.
@UI Or maybe not... What I mean is that Engadget always point the bad press about Nokia.
Beta projects, and for that matter R&D ones, are cancelled in many companies but do you see this here? What is the company that you see the most of this stuff happening here? It is nokia.
Why Engadget does not trumpets the other cancelled projects as well?
@M3 I think you didnt understand what I meant... Suggest you re-reading it mate.
@dextroz Indeed the last 3 years were very bad but I see some positive future for the firm. They have recognized the lost ground and are working on it.
At least they dont keep on the same bad path as the US auto industry. Some right steps were made but this takes time to give fruits of course.
Ovi is a mixed blessing. The services are very nice and will become better when they start interoperating, just give them a bit of time.
iTunes didnt become the success overnight, it took time as well.
@(Unverified) I am not a fanboy but I like the company a lot... The same way I like Google, Oracle and Toyota.
But of course it is easy for you to try to make less what I said by calling me a fanboy, cos let's face it, no one likes fanboy of anything.
At the same time is very dumb and childish to repeat the "he is a fanboy" mantra instead of giving nice arguments like the ones above...
If you want to call me a fanboy no prob, but IMHO you are as dumb as a child from a donkey-with-donkey mate.
@Mr w00t and all others
Engadget editors clearly need to do some research before writing about Nokia, because if they did their homework right they'd already know that being archived just indicates that the experiment is now finished.
For example, "Location Tagger" was an experimental Beta Labs application which was also archived after maturization; but the core GPS tagging functionality is now *inbuilt* to firmwares. You can expect the same for Kamppi too.
@dextroz Name me a company whose products are not subject to complaints by some users on some forums. Name me a product for which no user is waiting or praying for a new firmware for bug fix X or feature Y. Even your almighty Apple, supporting one single freaking phone model can't satisfy and please everyone. "They need to focus more on their consumers" Wow, that's brilliant, genius! You should get a patent for this novel concept. Which billion-dollar company, selling products to billions of people, are you running? If Nokia weren't listening to consumers, there wouldn't be billions of people carrying a Nokia phone in their pocket; they wouldn't be #1 worldwide by a landslide. Admittedly, new players are having greater momentum in the growing smartphone market but Nokia is still largely leading that market, worldwide. Nokia knows they are losing ground. They are working on a "comeback" but that takes time. Such a behemoth of a company cannot take a new direction in a split second.
@GeceBekcisi You want fact check from Engadget?! :P
Sorry to kill your dreams mate but you wont get that...
I heard one of those urban legends that Engadget gets some kind "funding" from other companies to twist every press release about Nokia. Goes to the "advertisement fund" of their companies. :P
@Mr w00t Untrue. We're funded exclusively by the Illuminati, though we do run the occasional NAMBLA banner ad.
While the trial has been 'shelved' (it is a bleeding trial anyway), Nokia hasn't abandoned the idea of indoor positioning. As Nokia has pointed out, they are intending on turning it into a product/service.
"...giant, obelisk-mounted maps"?
Where do you do your shopping?
@(Unverified) At least in my local shopping centre (and I tend to assume they're all pretty much the same), the maps are on large LCD touchscreens which admittedly are mounted next to pillars (but at a more touchy angle, not vertical), not sure those are 'obelisks'.
These have search facility, zoom, and touch-drag, and are only slightly less convenient to use than the old paper maps. Yay technology!
well you know even if i have to read a paper map, or some giant, obelisk-mounted maps, i'm not really one to care that much. i mean do i REALLY need a map on my phone telling me how to get around. probably not.
Something like this is needed though given that GPS doesn't work inside. What if I live in Toronto and its winter? I can walk around almost anywhere underground (because the city was designed to allow it--hey its cold a lot), but I have to know how to do it. Why can't my GPS program (using whatever additional techology is needed to enable this) guide me to my destination? And yes, I'd like it to guide me to the Radio Shack at the mall too. Hope somebody is coming up with something for this... and I'm not sure Wifi locations is really the right tech...
Hi all.
I encourage iPhone users to give Point Inside a try. Its a free app that allows people to find stores in over 400 malls across the US and Canada.
Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpmcSxqF_-w
Now this is a GREAT idea, except it's going to be pretty hard to get every office building \ mall \ whatever in their database worldwide.
Still, awesome Idea...Google should have something like this, they have the resources :P
"
We got a lot of insights and experiences and in these months we have learned a lot from you, the users that tested our system and suggested new ways to improve the experience.
All this work has been very valuable for us and we are now working on the next phase, making these experiences happen in the market place. Several initiatives have now started with the intent to transfer our learnings to Nokia products and services.
Overall, it was a great experience and we, at the Nokia Research Center, and the group that worked in the Kamppi trial want to thank all of you."
Seems something may come out of this, but as it needs the co-operation of the malls etc its a bit chicken and egg problem.
Accelerometers are pretty good. Why not just download a map and have simple software like Doom's map view (sorry children; this one's just too old for you to understand) simply show us wandering around? Some location-aware application could even automagically download the floorplans and everything. And if you're in a big building and maybe for whatever reason (battery drain, accuracy fading) you need improved precision, just occasionally tell the phone where you really are (if it gets lost) and you can keep your place.
As some other commenters pointed out, this was an experimental beta trial to understand how the work done in our research labs applies to a real environment over a period of time. The team learned from the experience and is now looking to the next phase. Considering that the trial is over and the window for giving feedback is closed, we archived it from Beta Labs.
Those interested can read more here: http://betalabs.nokia.com/blog/2009/12/21/kamppi-trial-archived-from-beta-labs
John - Community Facilitator @ Nokia Beta Labs