http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 5:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/
Verizon to FCC: Hey I got a MAP for that.

FCC to Verizon: Hey I got a FINE for that.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 7:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/
**** plays Imperial March ****

Darth Ivan Seidenberg: The Republic is against us. Assemble and attack my Droids!!!!

*** Darth Ivan gets on his ships, flies into the AT&T galaxy and makes his home in the Logo, now called the Death Star (heavily criticized by his horrible indoor 3G connection :S ) ****]]>Dec 23rd 2009 8:30PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/I can attest to being charged for data on AT&T when my non-smartphone got the web button pressed in my jeans. It was only 30 cents at that time but I learnt my lesson and immediately called them up and told them to cancel any chance of my phone connecting to the web.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 8:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 9:50PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/
Verizon's current fee for data is $1.99.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 10:11PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://bit.ly/att-going-down-verizon-is-laughing

consumers are already speaking... ]]>Dec 24th 2009 3:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/
(1) Pay $100 for the phone with additional $100 early termination fee
or
(2) Pay $200 for the phone and NO early termination fee.

Common guys, I prefer option (1). But with one exception - after the first year, there should be no additional termination fee, and the user gets to keep the phone.

If the FCC forces Verizon to eliminate those fees, we may not get those high-end phones for $100, we may end up paying $200 or more for them. And if you keep your contract for the full 2 year term, then you lose, because you paid more for your phone!!! Most people don't terminate their contract mid-term. But, adding to my statement above, the maximum additional free should not exceed $100 - and no additional fee after the first year of the contract is fulfilled.]]>Dec 24th 2009 4:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/
What high-end phone cost $100?

Those would fall in the half-assed smart phone scatergory me thinks]]>Dec 24th 2009 11:25AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 24th 2009 3:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 24th 2009 4:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/
I own the Palm Pre phone. It is now selling for $150 (after rebates at Sprint), and for $99 at other retail channels. Because I bought it when it was first released, I paid $199.

Soon, maybe in January, the Palm Pre will be coming to Verizon, and they most likely will discount it aggressively - that is Verizon's marketing approach. Verizon has been selling a boatload of BlackBerry smartphones in buy-1-get-1-free deals. And are selling various BlackBerry smartphones for $99.99 or less. Many of these phones are definitely worth much more than $99.99. If the user terminates their contract, Verizon stands to lose a lot of money.

I am sure when the Palm Pre comes to Verizon, they will be selling it for $99.99, yet it lists for $549.00.

Thank you for your response, because it caused me to reflect on one more point; and that is, I do not believe that Verizon should add an additional charge if the user's 2 year contract is fulfilled. The user should only have to pay an additional charge if (as argued in my original post above) they terminate their contract before the terms are fulfilled.

If Verizon is proposing additional charge for a large class of high-end phones after the 2-year contract expires, then I oppose it. If the 2-year contract period does not cover the price of the phone, then the user should be given the option of paying an additional charge every month to cover the true cost of the phone. Extending penalty beyond the 2 year contract period is a covert way of extending the 2-year contract period. This is a subversive way of gradually extending the contract period of millions of Americans from 2-years to 3-years, in line with the much derided policy of Canadian wireless companies.]]>Dec 25th 2009 3:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/You read something wrong. There is no proposal to charge anything at the end of the 2 year contract. It's all about charges imposed if you break the contract before its finished.

I still can't figure out why this is such a big deal to people. All the carriers have to say "Cost of breaking contract: $x" and not tie it to the subsidy at all. You can't just break your Comcast contract or your apartment lease or whatever without having a penalty. This is the same thing.]]>Dec 29th 2009 3:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 5:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Considering that members of the committee rotate every now and then, I don't understand how you can hate "an organization" when it's really just a few people calling the shots (people who get replaced, mind you).]]>Dec 23rd 2009 8:05PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/shoot, not me. i'm gonna have to pat obama on the back on this one, because regardless of what side of the political isle you're from you gotta love this new FCC. 1) they dont want people ripping you off w/ through the roof ETF fees 2) their stance on net neutreuality is actually on the side of people and not big business 3) they were quik to admit that after the last 3 or 8 years (or whatever) that cable card has been out its been nothing more than a complete and utter failure.

The only thing that could make me fall more in love w/ them is the FCC looking into the big 4 carriers jacking up prices for SMS fees at the same time, when it costs them literally nothing. Well, i can dream right?

Anyways, i think the only people that wouldn't be a fan of the fcc right now would be fatcats on wallstreet. and i could give two shits about them to be honest.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 8:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 5:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 5:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 7:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 7:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/
Could you please link me to it? ]]>Dec 24th 2009 8:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper_beta/details/1958/hexillus.html]]>Dec 24th 2009 2:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 5:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 6:25PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Yes let's make Big Red bleed so my monthly service charge can go even higher, faster.

Also, if the FCC caps termination fees then you can expect the difference between $350 and the FCC cap to go directly into the price of a new phone. Don't want early termination fees? Pony up $600 for your new mobile like the rest of the world. Don't have $600? Then STFU]]>Dec 23rd 2009 8:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 9:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 24th 2009 12:17AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 5:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 7:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/
Screw. You.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 5:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 5:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/
Verizon: MOOOOM!!! AT&T did not finish its 3G homework and now she is playing with her iPhone !!! MOOOOM!!!]]>Dec 23rd 2009 8:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/
Verizon don't let AT&T yank your cause from this area, because their ETF is $175.... now is there a map for that ? :S :'(]]>Dec 23rd 2009 5:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 6:17PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/$350 / 24 months = $14.50/month.

So that means Verizon's ETF is more than $100 higher than the amount a customer gets credited for over the duration of a full 24 month service contract. It's basically a "fuck you for switching providers" fee. It has no relationship to the 24 month service period at all at $10/month. I have no problem with a $350 ETF but it should be factored in proportion to the service contract at 24 months / $14.50 month otherwise it's just anti-competitive. ]]>Dec 23rd 2009 7:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/How about for ever month over my contract that I stay I get $10? Seems fair to me but would never happen]]>Dec 23rd 2009 8:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 24th 2009 9:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 24th 2009 10:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 5:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 5:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 6:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/great pic.]]>Dec 24th 2009 12:02AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Shut up, I love my Droid.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 5:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 5:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 5:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 5:56PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/Dec 23rd 2009 6:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/
You are correct sir, thats how its done in the UK.]]>Dec 24th 2009 8:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/
The carriers shouldn't subsidize phone hardware, but instead make a payment plan for the device and spread it over the life of the contract, cutting the subsidy costs out of their rates. Want to switch to another carrier? Go for it, but you'll still be paying off the phone. Already own a phone? Get a cheaper monthly rate. Pay the phone off early? Get a cheaper monthly rate.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 6:01PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/fcc-commish-says-verizons-etf-response-is-unsatisfying-and-in/100% agree with you. FCC should look not only at the ETF, but at the whole scheme ETF is based on.

Since ETF is supposed to reimburse the carrier for the phone you purchased from them, if you already have a phone, or pay the full price of the phone from the start, your plan should be reduced, since you don't need to pay them anything for the device anymore.

Similarly - if you buy the phone using the cell company's subsidy, after 2 years have passed and your phone has been paid off, your plan should become cheaper, because you are not paying for the phone anymore.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 7:12PM