It's definitely shaping up to be the year of e-book readers: the Amazon Kindle is
flying off (virtual) shelves, and we'd expect the Barnes & Noble
Nook to start moving at a decent clip once the
kinks get worked out. But any device with an always-on 3G connection to a central server raises some privacy questions, especially when it can broadcast granular, specific data about what you're reading -- data that's subject to a wide spectrum of privacy laws and regulations when it comes to real books and libraries, but much less so in the digital realm. We'd say it's going to take a while for all the privacy implications of e-books to be dealt with by formal policy, but in the meantime the best solution is to be informed -- which is where this handy chart from our friends at the Electronic Frontier Foundation comes in. As you'd expect, the more reading you do online, the more you can be tracked -- and Google Books, the Kindle, and the Nook all log a ton of data that can be shared with law enforcement and various other third parties if required. Of course, we doubt the cops are too interested in your
Twilight reading habits, but honestly, we'd rather users weren't tracked at all. Check the full chart and more at the read link.
[Thanks, Tom]
posted December 27th 2009 4:04PM
Engadget, why post these kinds of things? There is no useful information, only crap made to scare people out of a kindle. There really isn't anything here beyond the regular privacy policy for any device out there. In other words, they wont do anything to invade your privacy unless they legally need to. "Big brother is watching you" Thats terrible...
@cormin
I disagree wholeheartedly.
What other device tracks what you are using on it? Does your MP3 player track what songs you listened to and keep the log to be used by the company any time it wants?
We're not talking about a history for YOUR access. It's a history for the providers access.
As far as I know this is a first.
@(Unverified)
Amazon has a "Books recomended for you" section in their store. They need to collect this data. Plus who really cares if they know what books you read? Are they going to steal anything from you, or ruin anything at all based on what you read? I highly doubt they really care that John only likes to read romance novels on sundays in a candle lit room.
I'm sure itunes keeps track of what you upload to your devices, and possibly it sneakily uploads a list back to itunes as to how much you listened to each song, or do you have 100% confidence it doesn't?
And how many people actually read those EULA? I think very few if you saw what happened when they released chrome and its insane EULA, or if you see how many use FreeAVG even after they 'updated' their EULA to make it become worse than a worm, or how many use certain DVD player software, the list goes on, if you'd read those you'd never click OK no matter how trusting and 'innocent' you are.
@Wwhat
Of course I tunes logs that, they had a number of jailbroken iDevices not too long ago, so they clearly log everything possible. Its all for anonymous data so they can know whats going on and take action. You guys really are way too paranoid if your worried about this kind of data farming. You guys should look into facebook and myspace, you have no idea what kind of data farming goes on in social networks.
@cormin
Sad to see such short-sighted people. When companies keep track of this sort of thing, not only is it easy for companies to profit off your habits, but it is also very open to abuse by any future governments or other forces. What business does anyone have knowing what books you read or own? If you want them to know, tell them. Otherwise, it's your business as a private, free individual.
"Oh... I'm sure they won't do anything, so I shall choose apathy" is one of the most naive and dangerous attitudes.
@paul34
Please please give me an example of what they would do that would effect your life in any way.
@cormin The new innovation privacy invasion is not keeping track of what books you buy, since people have already accepted that Amazon does this with physical books.
The new thing is keeping track of *each and every time* you pick up the book to read it, how much you've read it, and for how long -- including, according to the EFF, books you didn't even purchase from Amazon. That's pretty remarkable, and the sort of monitoring of intellectual behavior that even Orwell couldn't have imagined.
@jd123
Still sounds like mindless statistics and piracy numbers. Seems like people only want privacy when they don't buy things. =)
@cormin
I cannot but I just do not think that I wish to purchase any device that collects such data. It will almost certainly never harm me, that is for sure but, the "almost" worries me a little and, I do not think that what I read should be of any interest to anyone but myself.
I shall not be buying any of these devices for the above reasons.
@jd123
thats how companies that big work.. they look at numbers and decide to take action or not..
"Okay so piracy numbers are this high, this is the point where we spend the money to take action"
"This book was just a bunch of hype, nobody is actually finishing it lets advertise or push a different book."
@(Unverified)
these are internation companies, millions of customers.. they need to work off of this kind of data to make their decisions.. otherwise they may make a huge mistake and go under.. look at the xbox 360, they had a huge piracy problem until they recently took action back in november, they did a huge ban wave and increased their security, and holiday sales (their timing is immoral in my opinion, ban all the pirates to boost holiday sales when they buy a new xbox).. im sure the game companies were worried about the rising piracy rates.. now look at nintendo their consoles are hacked to hell and back, their gone.. dont expect nintendo to go anywhere anymore.. apple will do the same soon, piracy is a problem with their iphone apps, they will take action.. they need numbers to decide how to do things
@cormin
You're a schoolteacher who happens to enjoy salacious romantic novels. A background search for a new teaching job includes your Amazon Kindle history.
You are intrigued by thrillers, especially ones of a modern nature and a friend of yours does something stupid and your history is requested by national security.
My main argument is this: WHY DO THEY NEED THIS INFORMATION?
Does your DVD player report back to the manufacturer every time you pop in Gone with the Wind?
Does your Media Player report back to Microsoft every time you watch a rip of a DVD?
Does Flash report back to Adobe every time you go to a porn site and watch something?
Does the Book store you go to report all your purchases and call you to see when you're reading them?
You are paying Amazon for this material. Why do they want to know WHEN you are reading it? What possible reason do they have for being able to retrieve this data FROM your player without you knowing about it?
@(Unverified)
*international companies ^^
I bet nintendo didnt expect their console to be hacked so far and be so useful to homebrew developers.. they didnt farm any data, they were blind now their console is known in and out by TONS of hackers and its gone too far to fix anything
@(Unverified)
woh there, WHY do you ENUNCIATE EVERYTHING you SAY.. read my other posts, big companies like this are blind to whats actually happening with their products without this kind of farming.. they take action from this.. plus I HIGHLY doubt your background checks are going to include your amazon book history.. if your really this paranoid just buy real books and put them in your tin foil wall papered room so they dont read the RFID in your ID and track your every movement..
@(Unverified)
Im sure they put in this protection to scan every book you read, see if it matches your purchase history and check for piracy numbers.. how else would they find piracy numbers? Piracy is so huge! It can break companies if its made easy enough, so the company will then spend the money to research and develop a way to stop, or diminish piracy. What book publisher would want to put it on an easily pirated media? Think about the PSP, that could have been so much better if pirates haven't destroyed the game market on it. The Wii will be the same. Its ALL about the money!
@(Unverified) " Does your MP3 player track what songs you listened to and keep the log to be used by the company any time it wants?"
iTunes genius knows what your listening to .....
@cormin
You are such an ignorant jackass. Perhaps you may be interested in books on terrorism or bomb-making for academics or other legal reasons. The next thing you know, the FBI is perusing through these book makers' user list along with the search and purchase histories. Then, you happen to appear on some government watch list.
@alex98
So does Zune.
@(Unverified)
-- How would reading romance novels impact your job as a school teacher? Why would a school care if you like trashy novels?
-- I don't even begin to understand your 2nd point about modern nature and your friend doing something stupid.
It's pretty simple ... this stuff is reviewed in cases of national security or criminal investigations. That won't impact 99.9% of the population. And even if you are under investigation, I don't see how this is any different from other widely accepted methods of information gathering. If a book is in your home a search warrant will reveal it. If you are having illicit conversations a wire tap will discover that. If you are viewing material on the internet the feds can track that too. The point is, the Kindle isn't some special device that falls outside the purview of the justice system. The reality is that the Feds can find out what you read through all sorts of different means - this just makes it easier for them.
@(Unverified)
Ni hao. I work in china and i'm paid to spy on your american websites, Keep thinking the way you do please :)
@miakotamatsue The government is required to have a warrant to get that information.
And seriously, if you people are that paranoid... well, you're SOL. This kind of data-gathering is only going to be more common as time goes by and we get more networked.
@(Unverified)
Oh man. I hope none of you have a Facebook account. They do targeted advertising all the time on there, including using pictures of friends and acquaintances. And you don't think that your account can't be used in a criminal investigation?
Any device that you buy from a company is no different. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Or read the EULA. This happens more often than you think. All internet devices have the capability to "spy" on you.
Let me tell you why I'm not worried about this whole deal. What is more profitable to a company? Using your past history to automatically predict products that you might prefer, or to secretly spy on you and report it to a government agency?
Again, this kind of information is collected every day by thousands of companies online. It only makes sense that they would put the exact same capabilities on their internet connected devices.
@Mike10010100
I understand that it looks like people are being paranoid about this. However, the thing about people being afraid that their information will be misused is that, eventually, they will be right.
@paul34
You just said: "Sad to see such short-sighted people. When companies keep track of this sort of thing, not only is it easy for companies to profit off your habits"
So... I guess you don't use any google product much? ha ha. Maybe I'm going out on a limb, but I'm going to guess you do. Do you?
Libraries keep track of what you read, and report it to homeland security, even no-rank ones that have no authority (read the old news about cases) This is the same in other western countries, but there they report to their local version of HLS of course, who then report back to the US no doubt.
And Bluray has the net connection now, for the so-called 'added content', yeah right, and that they need to know what you popped in the player to supply that added content, well that's just coincidence, same for software DVD players, the big three all install services in windows to 'help' you with 'enhanced content' on the net, not hard to figure that also means they see what you watch then, not to mention intervideo has an EULA that allows them to 'audit' all files on your computer last I checked..
And flash has hidden (from normal cookie viewer) and encrypted cookies, separate from normal browser cookies (and I'd like someone to try to track what it all relays left and right anyway, trusting it's all clean is not the same as knowing).
And with the newest flashplayers now supporting DRM it probably means it also has functions to uniquely ID you, so they can check if you have access to said DRM'ed content..
@Badison
Yes, I do. I also use credit cards, shop online, and shop at the same few brick and mortar stores. They know me, what I buy, when I buy it. I am aware of it, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. Simply that I have no choice. But whether someone knows how often I buy milk is a little different than knowing exactly what my political views may be comprised of and what my library is composed of.
@miakotamatsue
yes im sure every person who is interested in bombs and how the terrorists do things will end up on some government watch list (PSSST.. that was sarcasm) they really dont come much worse than you, the government wont waste their time with somebody because they bought some silly book.. only if you are related to something with terrorist bombings then it would be used as evidence.. so i mean, unless your meaning on going to blow up some car, im sure youll be fine..
im done with you guys, there is no stopping you paranoid freaks.. seriously YOUR CRAZY get help.. you think too much about the worst things possible in life and think it all happens to you.. it doesnt, take a vacation, calm down..its going to be okay
@Wwhat I believe this is one of the reasons why FB had tighten their privacy issues too.
Apart from what Mark Zuckerberg said, I guess individual even non facebook users should practice security measures on their own in order to avoid attacks and other privacy issues. Hackers will always be around and it would be an enormous undertaking for any website to manage the vast subscribers 24/7 (in this case E-reader)
Privacy: http://bit.ly/avoid-facebook-hacking
@Pingles
Well, the iPods (mandatory) and Zune (optional) players track your play history, as well as Last.fm (although the plug-ins are installed by the user himself).
Looks like the Book Store is still the best option.
@(Unverified)
More fun to browse shelves than images of book covers, anyway.
Just don't buy with a CC eh.
I missing a few in that list, which is making it clear it's more about warning about kindle/nook than about having a comprehensive list, but that's good too, but it does leave out some info.
Dear anyone who has read "The catcher in the rye" on a kindle ... If you look outside your house you will see a large black van filled with fbi agents who are tracking your every move.
Sincerely,
your neighborhood conspiracy theorist
@Edobe
What if I am an FBI agent reading "Catcher in the Rye" in a black van full of my fellow agents?
Recursion?
@Edobe NO. They are not watching you. They will just call you ( when they need you) with an activation code trigger to put you into assassin mode.
How many cases do you need to see in the news and how many times does the government and presidents have to go on TV to admit what they do before it's no longer a 'conspiracy theory' in your eyes? I get it's more than a hundred, but how many times more?
Just wondering.
Let me illustrate something if I may:
If a person says: "aliens from outer space landed and killed kennedy is the 60's" then it's a wacky theory, but if someone says "someone killed kennedy in the 60's" then that is NOT a wacky theory but a known well established fact, there's is a difference, even though both claims have a common element one is wacky one is a simple fact.
So you cannot say "oh a statement has an element I heard in a wacky theory or story and therefore this also inherits those qualities and becomes wacky/untrue", that's not how it works.
Hey look! Sony's the good guy for once.
@jdude4
Basically if you care about your privacy and want an eBook Reader then make.believe.
@jdude4
I got a Sony Reader for Christmas, the new touch one. It's nice and classy looking. Not too big either. The great thing about this reader is that I can read books I didn't purchase from them, or at all, if you know what I mean, and they wouldn't even know. The Lost Symbol here I come!
Why do you live in this century if you're worried about your book searches?
"Use someone else's (search) service and expect yourself to show up on the logs."
It's a fundamental argument that can be applied to any creative works, be it a song, book, painting, patent, etc. that the middleman milks both the artist and the consumer.
The recording corporations are only there to service themselves, it's that simple. Any way they can find to milk the artist more, or the consumer more, they will exploit. What are they? Useless thugs, spending your cash earned by selling someone else's work.
Tracking your habits allows them to better target your 'needs', but also make sure you are being nice, not naughty. Since your money is used to bribe, I mean lobby, the government into compliance with corporate whims, you'd better be nice.
How will it end? Business as usual? I don't know, but I do know I wish there was a way to pay the artist directly. I would consider the creator of a great ebook reader an artist as well, and love to pay them directly for the hardware. What I hate is this drug-dealer mentality we've all become desensitized to.
I for one, welcome the death of the middleman. We'll be much richer after that. No fear or excuses needed... Time to drop the old model and support open-source.
So let me get this straight. You pay ~$260 upfront for the kindle. Then you pay for digital copies of books after that. Then you battle between battery and other issues that come with "going digital." Then, on top of that, Amazon can see what you're reading, log what you've searched for and bought, delete the book if they need to, AND share the information with law enforcement.
OR you could just get a book.
I love gadgets as much as the next guy, but e-readers(at least the current batch) are a fucking joke.
@Giantenemycrab
I kinda agree with you, but are you implying many books have been or will be deleted?
This sounds like the uproar over Apple having a kill switch on apps. (Not saying I'm all for it, but I think people are putting way too much drama into it).
@Giantenemycrab "Battle with battery issues" sounds like its some kind of life or death struggle to plug in your Kindle once every week or two.
@Giantenemycrab
"but e-readers(at least the current batch) are a fucking joke."
Not the Sony Reader, according to the table...
@Giantenemycrab
I feel the same about cellphones :)
How is "may collect information if customer uses its eBook Store" different than "logs data on searches made…on B&N website."