http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 3:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/I think the Ion uses more electricity doing HD than the Atom, but then again, the Atom doesn't exactly do HD smoothly.]]>Dec 30th 2009 3:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/But butttt, CULV can't play WoW at 30 fps. LOL.
Yea. The acer 11.6" CULV Timemachine is only $399 with 8 hrs battery life.]]>Dec 30th 2009 4:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 31st 2009 4:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 3:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 3:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/
Couldn't agree more.

I just bought a $249 10" Eee last week at my local Best Buy and I couldn't be happier. Sure, it doesn't have 8 hours of battery life, it's impossible to play fullscreen 1080p flash video (though fullscreen "HQ" Youtube works just fine), and I'm stuck with XP, but I'm sure as shit not willing to double or triple the price I paid just for those luxuries. There's only so much you can do with a 10" screen, anyway.

Netbooks are awesome because they're incredibly portable. I really can't fathom a better way to waste money than by buying a $649 12" netbook.

Granted, this argument completely changes if you're talking about this being somebody's ONLY machine.


]]>Dec 30th 2009 3:50PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/]]>Dec 30th 2009 4:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/
I just bought an Acer Aspire AS1810tz for under $500. You can get the AS1410 for even less. It is smaller and lighter than ALL of these. It has better battery life. Better specs (802.11n, HDMI, eSATA, etc). A better version of Windows (7 Home Premium). And of course it performs better on almost any benchmark except gaming.

Netbooks aren't about gaming, which these Ion-based systems apparently aren't that good at anyway, they're about "good-enough" computing. Most of the time they're just secondary systems used for internet web browsing. Why would you pay these prices for something like that?]]>Dec 30th 2009 4:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/
"Good enough" usually includes YouTube.]]>Dec 30th 2009 5:25PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/
Netbooks are supposed to be incredibly small and they should cost little more than $200. If you are going to spend more money, get a CULV.

I am really hoping to see some good stuff come out in the next month with Intels new Arrandale CULVs. Graphics performance will supposedly double the current ones, and they will have HyperThreading, Turbo Mode, more aggressive power management and just in general be more efficient.

An Acer Timeline with Arrandale may have 10 hour battery life, significantly improved HD playback(turbo mode), multitasking(hyperthreading), gaming(new GPU) and hopefully some cool features like USB 3, eSATA or whatever else. And if they can deliver this for $400-$600, who in their right mind would pay as much or more for some Ion netbook with a 1.66ghz Atom that can't even last for more than a few hours on a charge?]]>Dec 30th 2009 5:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/]]>Dec 30th 2009 7:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Is Aleman your last name? It's mine so I'm just curious.]]>Jan 1st 2010 5:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 3:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 3:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 3:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 3:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 3:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/
The main point of my Netbook was taking it to class for 6-7 hours and not needing an AC adapter the entire time... if I wanted power or an HDMI port I would simply use my large laptop.]]>Dec 30th 2009 3:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 3:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/
That is barely smaller than the 13 inch screen I had on my compaq laptop 6 years ago......and it is barely faster and cost $200 dollars more?

Have people totally forgotten what a NETBOOK was supposed to be? These are just smaller Laptops now with crippled power....I will stick with my 9 inch Mini9 that does all a Netbook needs to do]]>Dec 30th 2009 3:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/
I hope there will be more ARM based Netbooks in the future (OMAP4 Please!) which should have amazing battery life and tons of performance as well.]]>Dec 30th 2009 4:01PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 4:01PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/
Ion 2 + Atom won't solve the fundamental problem that the CPU sucks and was never really meant to do much in the first place.

You're going to have to go for CULV + Ion to get any worthwhile performance, and at that point, you might as well get a real notebook since you'll already be in the $800-$1000 price range.]]>Dec 30th 2009 5:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 5:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 4:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 4:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/
Would the Acer 1810T fit this bill?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.]]>Dec 30th 2009 4:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/
That's the biggest difference between these netbooks and low end laptops. You won't be able to watch a clip on Hulu let alone a show on a dirt cheap laptop. These netbooks are optimzed for the thousands of people leaving their cable company and watching most of their video content online.

Newegg, Zipzoomfly keep selling out of their stock of the 1201N so obviously people want to pay. The only place which seems to have them actually in stock is B&H: http://www.netbookreports.com/2009/12/1201n-asus-netbook-in-stock-at-bh/ - and there's no telling how long that will last.

People want 12" computers which are video centric and have better battery life than "standard" notebooks. I'm not sure anyone would pay more than $500, but that's the sweet spot every manufacturer is going to be aiming toward.]]>Dec 30th 2009 4:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/
I have an Acer 1410, and it's a fantastic ultraportable laptop with one problem: Intel GMA X4500MHD absolutely, positively sucks for gaming.

If you don't play 3D games at all (or only play titles made before around 2003) the CULV laptops are good options. The Acer 1410 happens to be small, light, and cheap, and it has very few major flaws.

The problem is, GMA X4500 is absolutely terrible in any kind of games. It's not just slow, it's incredibly unbelievably slow. You can't even run WoW at minimum settings acceptably well, even with old-world content that is essentially unchanged from 2005.

The benchmarks don't tell the whole story, though. The GMA has absolute crap texture filtering, so get ready for blurry-vision. It has a number of driver bugs that lead to graphical issues or extreme slowdown.

The stupid thing is that the GeForce 9400M chipset would be a decent match for the CULV. You're not going to run Crysis well on a GeForce 9400M (or a CULV Core 2 for that matter), but games like Portal or WoW would run absolutely fine with moderate settings.

Instead, we can only get the GeForce 9400M in netbooks (Ion) or much bigger laptops like the Dell Inspiron 14z; the only exception is the $1500 MacBook Air, which, with 2GB of memory and a $1500 starting price tag, isn't even remotely in the same category as CULV notebooks like the Acer 1410.

Give me an Acer 1410 with a Pentium Dual-Core 1.3GHz (or a Core 2 Duo 1.3GHz) and an Nvidia GeForce 9400M, and you could get $700 from me.

Unfortunately, that laptop doesn't exist. There is no sub-$800, sub-4lb, GeForce 9400M, Core 2 (or Pentium Dual Core) laptop, to my knowledge. The Asus UL80vt comes close (it's >4lbs, but not by much) but it apparently has build quality issues and a shit display.

Instead, I'm switching to a ThinkPad T400. It's huge compared to a CULV notebook, but for $800 you can get good battery life (switchable graphics), a fast Core 2 Duo CPU, 4GB of memory, a DVD burner, and decent graphics (Radeon HD 3470, about 1.5x as fast as GeForce 9400M).

If you care about GPU performance, the CULV notebooks simply aren't there. They're probably fine for the 90% of people who will never play a 3D PC game, but they aren't fine for me.]]>Dec 30th 2009 11:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 31st 2009 10:09AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/]]>Dec 30th 2009 4:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/too bad they're unreliable]]>Dec 30th 2009 4:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 4:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 4:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/
Where ION really shines is in the HTPC market - You can build a 1080p capable silent box for under $400, and it'll fit in a ridiculously small enclosure.

One thing I don't get is how these netbooks played 1080p Flash, when Flash doesn't offer GPU acceleration support yet?]]>Dec 30th 2009 4:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Adobe flash supports gpu acceleration on 10.1 beta]]>Dec 30th 2009 6:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Ahh, I see where I was confused... It's out but the GPU acceleration only works in Windows. Since I do all my HTPC stuff in Linux and those are the mailing lists I follow, I guess I assumed too much by just skimming the posts. Thanks.]]>Dec 30th 2009 6:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 4:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Why??? It would cost a bundle. ]]>Dec 30th 2009 4:56PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Ion should give me enough power to run touch apps like Surface globe. I want a easy time writing on the screen but the main reason is the size. I like the thin and light sizes of netbooks more then I like their crappy specs. I like the long battery life also.

If they make a laptop tablet with stronger specs, thin, light and good battery. I'd be all for that one too. :)]]>Dec 30th 2009 5:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 5:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 5:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/That Asus that has 8 hours wasn't a tablet. Its a netbook I think they used for comparison on battery life against its tablet counter parts.]]>Dec 30th 2009 5:23PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Yea I kinda realized that after I submitted my comment (no edit functionality in the comments...) However my complaint about the HDD and the OS is still valid.

http://imgur.com/gMUhV.png]]>Dec 30th 2009 5:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 7:25PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Doh! I knew that. I am stuck big time on tablets!
Thanks for setting me straight!]]>Dec 30th 2009 7:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/Dec 30th 2009 5:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/
F***, need edit button Engadget, meant to say "good deal netbook"...

SMH]]>Dec 30th 2009 5:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/30/ion-netbooks-head-to-head-atom-overcharged/
Netbooks are not full on laptops. A netbook's primary function, as its name implies, relates to the internet. The fact that these particular netbooks CAN do many of the things a regular portable can is an added bonus.

The fact that people bitch and moan when a $400 netbook can't do this stuff as well as a $2,000 laptop is just pure greed at play. People want more for less. Nevermind the fact that a netbook is not supposed to compete with a notebook.

I blame this on the manufacturers. Though equally motivate by greed, Intel & MS set forth recommended specs for netbooks for a reason. Netbooks are essentially supposed to be the 21st century version of the old PDA. Nothing more.

Unfortunately, caving in to consumer greed, netbook manufacturers keep on ignoring the specs. They're pushing these netbooks into laptop territory, drawing the inescapable comparisons and expectations of functionality.

Like I said, I just got the HP Mini311 w/3GB. Prior to getting it, I was totally ANTI-netbook. However, with it now in my hands, I'm actually impressed. It not only does what I expected it to do, but it also does more. I'm pleasantly surprised.

Look, when I want to do my whole CG thing and bust out 40mil polys I'll head to my $3,500 desktop workstation. That's where I'll install the latest and greatest PC games that the industry has to offer.

When I want to sit in bed & maybe surf the net in comfort, I'll whip out the netbook. This is the sort of system I'll drop on early 00s games like Deus Ex, Quake 3, or WoW. A netbook is a perfect sort of system for retro gaming. Drop on the SNES emulator and play Mario wherever you go.

However, I wouldn't expect a netbook to play Modern Warfare 2. That's just not what a netbook is designed to do. NOBODY, not even Engadget, should expect more from a netbook than they should.

Pay for $400 worth of PC and get $400 worth of PC. With these ION equipped netbooks, you get as much power for $400 as you would have for a $2,500 PC back in 2003. That sounds bad, but, iirc, we did quite a bit with PCs in 2003. Best of all, it's all portable.

Here's my rundown of the HP Mini 311:

PROS:
- Small & lightweight
- Fast for what it is designed to do
- Solid 5hr+ battery life, which is more than enough since you're not going to spend all day on a netbook.
- Solid 3D power for low poly CG work. Handles 250k pols in C4D quite well in real-time.
- 160GB is more than enough HDD space since XP has a small footprint
- A max of 3GB of RAM is more than enough since XP idles at ~150MB or so.
- Pretty good 1080p performance & MP4 playback
- Handles all of my favorite old school PC and emu console games very well.
- Far less pre-installed bloatware than my desktop PC
- 2 minutes to upgrade RAM. 2 minutes to permanently hack the ION LE to ION full.

CONS:
- Roxio's recovery utility is crap and doesn't work. I had to create custom bootable USB recovery stick from the included I386
- The view angle isn't meant for more than one person.
- The contrast ratio is a notch below my Cintiq 12wx tablet and far below my 22" SynchMaster.
- Weak speakers
- Super sensitive touchpad. Bundled ALPS drivers won't disable touchpad while typing or when a external mouse is connected. (Dell touchpad drivers fix this problem though.)

BOTTOM LINE:

This thing blows the doors off of the old Toshiba my college gave me when I started my freshman year in 1993. Apples to oranges, but I remember getting a whole lot done on that laptop. I also owned far more expensive desktops in the past that did far less than this netbook.

For what a netbook is designed to do, the HP Mini 311 is a dream. It doesn't matter to me if "x" app starts 2 seconds slower than "y" netbook. That's trivial. Does it get the INTENDED job done? Hell yeah. Does it do that job well. No doubt. Can it do more than just net-based apps. Yes and surprisingly well. Will it ever replace my desktop or laptop? Not. Then again, it's not supposed to.

Remember that. A netbook is NOT a laptop or desktop replacement. Anybody expecting $3,500 worth of PC for $400 is basically a cheap SOB. Shell out the dough for a desktop if you need desktop gaming/work power.]]>Dec 30th 2009 5:44PM