Engadget - Comments for

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Bosco — Jan 1st 2010 1:15PM

Forget taking this on an airplane.

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jon — Jan 1st 2010 1:31PM

@Bosco

No shit, right?

It's an electronic device, and it's a flammable liquid.

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Eugene Action — Jan 1st 2010 1:51PM

@jon oh come on... you never heard of a cell phone battery randomly igniting or even blowing up? apparently the FAA hasn't shhhhh

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jon — Jan 1st 2010 1:54PM

@Eugene Action

We were really hoping they hadn't noticed. Now that you've mentioned it, they're gonna ban mobiles.

Way to ruin the party dude.

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Bosco — Jan 1st 2010 1:57PM

@jon The party was already ruined. After the Christmas underwear bomber, we're no longer asking "Will it Hackintosh?". The question for 2010 is "Will it fit in my taint?".

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jon — Jan 1st 2010 2:02PM

@Bosco

I'll be honest. I've never asked either of those questions.

I however, hold nothing against those who have.

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Nate — Jan 1st 2010 3:55PM

@Bosco you can say that, though some people still try lol

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duggy — Jan 1st 2010 6:41PM

@Bosco

Get down on the ground bitch!!

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OneLove — Jan 1st 2010 6:46PM

So why didn't they ban underwear?

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ikicksit450 — Jan 1st 2010 1:16PM

dude wtf is it

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Corvus — Jan 1st 2010 1:28PM

@ikicksit450 A fancy battery.

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jon — Jan 1st 2010 1:29PM

@ikicksit450

It's a portable fuel cell. Basically, you pour in methanol(alcohol), and it produces electricity.

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Ryujin — Jan 1st 2010 1:31PM

@jon
how much alcohol would it take to recharge two AA?

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jon — Jan 1st 2010 1:34PM

@Ryujin

I have no idea.

Here's something from the read link.

"The Dynario (Fig. 1) is a direct methanol fuel cell (DMFC) with a USB connector that allows it to charge mobile equipment. The maximum output, together with the internal Li-ion rechargeable battery, is 2 W (5 V, 400 mA). It is charged with 14 mL of methanol, which, according to Toshiba, “is enough to charge a piece of mobile equipment about two times.” We used an LED lamp with a power consumption of 1 W to verify that it generated enough output for about 11 (11 Wh)."

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jon — Jan 1st 2010 1:36PM

@jon

So, it's basically an 11 Wh battery, for comparison a Macbook Air uses a 40 Wh battery.

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Valicore — Jan 1st 2010 1:38PM

@jon Hmmm so that's about three teaspoons of methanol to put out 400mA (80% of the standard 500mA used for USB). Hmm.

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Valicore — Jan 1st 2010 1:40PM

@Valicore Oh, and that much for about 5 1/2 hours.

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jon — Jan 1st 2010 1:46PM

@Ryujin

A little research later and, a AA battery is around 1000mAh.
So two of them would need about 3 Wh to charge.
That works out to about 3.8mL of methanol.

Assuming my math is correct.

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Wwhat — Jan 1st 2010 2:45PM

It's equal to about 4 AA rechargeables, so it's not very impressive to be honest.
11w/4.8v(=4AA's of 1.2v each)=2.29A= 2290mAh 4.8v

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Wwhat — Jan 1st 2010 2:54PM

Which makes yuo wonder if you can't simply put a bigger tank in there, should be a doable hack, although it's not safe it's a way to make the price make more sense, I mean a 140ml tank would give it a tenfold capacity, and 140ml isn't that big.
Problem is that methanol is very very toxic and you can kill someone with it, which means your average ~~maniac~~american probably can't handle having access to it.

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ShankThePotomus — Jan 1st 2010 4:08PM

@Wwhat It makes me wonder why you can't just use 4 rechargeable AA instead. $15 startup plus a few cents a month for electricity or $328 startup plus a few dollars a month for fuel. The choice seems obvious to me, but wtf do I know. I'm only the freakin consumer their trying to pedal this to. Cool idea though.

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jcpb — Jan 1st 2010 5:56PM

@MJGAMER 1991 XBL
Because a mobile charger with 4 rechargeable AAs is not innovation. You won't even need 4 - Sanyo makes some mobile chargers that take only a pair of that stuff.

Methanol fuel doesn't have any power discharge issues associated with rechargeable batteries, and it is - power density-wise - far lighter than most AAs. I agree $328 isn't cheap, however the risks of methanol leakage and turning into a fireball are no laughing matter. I wouldn't want Brando to make one of these and sell for $25 a pop.

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Cile1977 — Jan 2nd 2010 6:08AM

@jon Yes, but time to recharge ordinary battery is few hours and fuel cell is ready immediately after you put fuel in...

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Eugene Action — Jan 1st 2010 1:17PM

mmm salty

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russcurrington — Jan 1st 2010 1:28PM

Why does the battery need a battery?

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jon — Jan 1st 2010 1:30PM

@russcurrington

It's a storage cell. Fuel cells aren't batteries as much as they are generators.

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jerm — Jan 1st 2010 1:31PM

@russcurrington maybe that's THE battery? the rest are just there to provide the juice...maybe

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jimminy — Jan 1st 2010 3:42PM

@jerm
The liquid is the battery, the device is the converter.

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jcpb — Jan 1st 2010 5:28PM

@russcurrington
FTFA: "The Dynario is equipped with a Li-ion rechargeable battery, which supplies electricity to the load until output from the generating unit stabilizes at start-up, as well as powering the generating unit control circuit and other components."

As in, you cannot just turn it on and expect the fuel cell power plant to pump out enough juice to charge your iPhone right away.

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Frank — Jan 1st 2010 1:32PM

sad that they used a Li-Ion battery and not something like a Supercapacitor which should be able to give enough power while the fuel cell starts up and does not have such a huge wear a Li-Ion cell has. This ruins the whole concept of the fuel-cell.
However, it's great to see there's some progress.

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jon — Jan 1st 2010 1:39PM

@Crank

That's a good idea, however they're already selling this thing at a loss. A sufficient capacitor, I suspect, would push this thing into untenable.

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jcpb — Jan 1st 2010 5:35PM

@Crank
Toshiba is expecting to recoup any losses related to manufacturing these fuel cells with sales of consumables (in this case, methanol fuel). People are already whining how inkjet printer consumables are a ripoff - this is only going to get worse.

Supercapacitors is the wrong word. It should be ultracapacitors.

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Frank — Jan 1st 2010 7:13PM

@jcpb your post has nothing to do with my suggestion. I just don't want a fuel-cell with a chemical battery which has a lot of wear and is dead after 2 or 3 years, because then there's no improvement compared to currently used Li-Ion batteries which also are dead after 2 or 3 years.
And Supercapacitor, Ultracapacitor, both terms are 'wrong' and just marketing names, the correct name is Electric double-layer capacitor, but most of the readers here have no clue what this is.

@jon A Li-Ion battery is expensive, needs special charging hardware and other protective stuff. A Supercapacitor however does not need any special charge controller and isn't really more expensive.

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supitsmike — Jan 1st 2010 1:34PM

Holy Miley Cirus.

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Igor — Jan 1st 2010 1:39PM

Cool, but $328 is too much for a simple USB battery charger. Even if your that desperate for power on the go, there are many other more affordable solutions.

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Bosco — Jan 1st 2010 2:29PM

@0102030405 Yes, but when everybody is using these, they'll cost $19.95.

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JohnTitor — Jan 1st 2010 3:14PM

@Bosco
but then no one will use it until it's $19.95

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medicmechanic — Jan 3rd 2010 9:57AM

@JeremyBenthem dude I just finished watching Lost so your name freaked me out lol

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JohnTitor — Jan 1st 2010 2:16PM

looks like something that can play Crysis

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weedy — Jan 1st 2010 2:50PM

Someone said "methanol(alcohol)", well, ethanol is the alcohol you are used to drink.

Meanwhile, methanol is actually extremely toxic, a very effective poison, drinking just 10ml of it will cause blindness, 100ml - death, so using it in anything remotely close to your-average-dumbass is a bad idea.

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jon — Jan 1st 2010 3:52PM

@weedy

If I had said "methanol(booze)" you might have a point.
But, considering that methanol is an alcohol( along with ethyl, isopropyl, and all the other flavors) I just thought I'd provide a little context for someone who didn't know what a DFMC was.

Also, there's plenty of methanol (%0.02) in your average red wine, that's one of the reasons it wrecks so many people.

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weedy — Jan 1st 2010 3:59PM

@jon 0.02% doesn't really equal "concentrated methanol" and next time you reply, please read the original comment first. ;) I was just clarifying for those who think "alcohol" = "booze".

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jcpb — Jan 1st 2010 5:23PM

@jon
"Also, there's plenty of methanol (%0.02) in your average red wine, that's one of the reasons it wrecks so many people."

Same thing can be said with the average 12-pack, nub.

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Ualdayan — Jan 1st 2010 3:32PM

This seems like a "We know almost nobody will buy it" kind of thing, like Sony's 8 or so inch OLED that cost $5k? Not exact numbers, but it was something crazy like that.

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[Highest Ranked] — Jan 1st 2010 3:54PM

this fuel cell looks like a whole bunch of crap to me

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jcpb — Jan 1st 2010 5:18PM

@HighestRanked
The same thing can be said of your posts.

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[Highest Ranked] — Jan 1st 2010 5:24PM

@jcpb my posts are pure gold.
I am Highest Ranked after all.

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takasden — Jan 1st 2010 7:15PM

I have a methanol fuel cell made by another manufacturer and have taken it on many flights over the past year. If you take the time to read the Feds rules on travel with methanol, you will see that fuel cells such as this are allowed. I have never been stopped by Homeland Security as they have all been instructed in Direct Methanol Fuel cells. Also read up on methanol and don't make assumptions. It burns but is not explosive. Much safer than gasoline and hydrogen.

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mike — Jan 2nd 2010 1:21AM

How many of these do you think they will let me take on an airplane and how long to do you think it will delay my getting on an airplane as I explain what it is, why I have it, and if I am traveling alone?

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AlCapa — Jan 2nd 2010 1:57AM

What is the obsession with taking it on a plane? You can keep it in check in luggage instead of your handbag.