http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/Jan 5th 2010 7:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
Sorry, because flash is not on the iPhone, engadget apparently thinks it is terrible.]]>Jan 5th 2010 7:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
yeah.. its like their sarcastic comments wont end when it comes to an apple competitor. Had this been the iPhone getting flash they would be like ooooohhhhhh.... aahhhhhh...

but its not an iPhone so don't expect a positive approach to the news being reported.]]>Jan 5th 2010 7:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
wait.. don't you mean if this was on gizmodo? engadget is more of the windows fanboys vs gizmodo being the apple fanboys blog. :P

yea, those ads are killer and reason why i never understood why people wanted flash so bad. now make me a flash ad blocker and we're set!
]]>Jan 5th 2010 8:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/hahahah nooo joke!! i thot that whole engadget pro-apple thing was a joke, but for real engadget!?! flash on a mobile device is like a HUGE step for the mobile browsing world!! and they seem to treat it like nothing or even something bad... LIZAME!]]>Jan 5th 2010 8:05PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
Man this is so awesome, Flash Ads slowing down my mobile web experience, overheating my phone and running down the battery.

Wow the future is here fan-f#cking-tastic!!!!!!!!!!]]>Jan 5th 2010 8:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
I'm pretty sure they think that because Flash IS terrible. You didn't notice how choppy everything gets when flash is being used on the page? Or are you just in denial?]]>Jan 5th 2010 8:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/I agree to the engadget thing.
I still think flash is not that awesome for the web itself.
It is a must in a modern web browser (and should became quickly on mobile web browser) but its business model is gonna hurt internet a lot.

Hopefully, HTML 5 should free at least the video and portfolio and such...
As for the game it's doomed but I don't care.]]>Jan 5th 2010 8:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
I might have overdone it a bit.. ]]>Jan 5th 2010 8:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
Because the lag clearly had nothing to do with what they think.]]>Jan 5th 2010 8:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/we'll never see flash on the iphone, because then people will go to websites and play games, for...FREE. and apple doesn't like that. and people could go to a lot of sites other than youtube, and watch FREE streaming videos, and apple wouldn't like that. and you'll also be able to navigate to sites and watch/interact with their premium interfaces w/out requiring an app (think espn, and especially the cnn app) and since apple makes money off every nice website that wants to add their app to the story, well...you guess it, they wouldn't like that.

Engadget, its one thing to be ok w/ the closed garden approach that apple has refused to give up on for the last few years. But semi bad mouthing this perfectly fine implementation of flash on a competitors phone for no apparent reason, this is shoddy reporting and journalism at its finest. You're turning into the foxnews of blogs of tech blogs, and i dont like that. Bring back my engadget of circa 2005/2006 before there was an iphone, and the love for all things, and everything apple, and i'd be a much happier person. ]]>Jan 5th 2010 8:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
Engadget = Apple fanboiz]]>Jan 5th 2010 8:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/this is so dead-on
+100 ]]>Jan 5th 2010 9:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/Jan 5th 2010 9:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
To me, it doesn't matter if it isn't an iPhone killer or not, as long as it contains the much needed 'things' I need for my lifestyle.. So far, seeing the presentation I can't see any reason not have this one. yet.
Droid, iPhone, Palm Pixi VS Nexus One details: http://bit.ly/nexus-one-matchup-droid-iphone-palmpixi-details

Lol, if engadget are fanboys of iPhone then we shouldn't have seen their unbias opinion to other gadgets of our time, ayt?]]>Jan 5th 2010 9:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/Jan 5th 2010 9:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/I thought the same thing... engadget is the new fox division.

"Fair and Unbiased reporting"- yeah... riiiiiiiiiggggghhhhhhhtttttt]]>Jan 5th 2010 10:01PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
flash killer for 2.1?]]>Jan 5th 2010 10:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/Jan 5th 2010 10:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
God, enough with the knee-jerk "Engadget is biased towards Apple!" reactions...

Why on earth would anyone think that multiple full blown Flash ads in a mobile browser make for a good experience? *That* is what the post is getting at...

What's really needed, desperately, is ClickToFlash. ]]>Jan 5th 2010 10:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
My bad, didn't intend to steal your ClickToFlash thunder.
]]>Jan 5th 2010 10:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
They made a big deal about iPhone doing copy and paste and MMS... go figure...]]>Jan 5th 2010 10:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/Jan 5th 2010 10:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
The funny thing is... that stupid alien shooting game that he demonstrated would have run 1000x better as a native app. Plus, what happens when you encounter a Flash game that uses the keyboard?

Also, the flash elements on the NatGeo site suck... like all Flash elements on web pages. If I absolutely *had* to visit NatGeo.com from my phone... I hope they have a mobile site.

Anyway... give me GPU accelerated Flash on my desktop... I don't want Flash on my mobile device.]]>Jan 5th 2010 10:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/Jan 5th 2010 11:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/dont kid yourself. either you dont know how it works, or...you are just choosing to...overlook...that apple doesn't like giving stuff away for free. Even those free apps that are on the app store. They're free to users, but dont those submitting applications have to cough up dough to get the ball rolling? correct me if i'm wrong. youtube is free, but imagine if sites like fox, cbs, nbc, and the likes allowed u to stream some of the same shows (or made lower bitrate streaming versions for flash 10.1 players) that apple sells on itunes. Mmm, that would be rev and advertising rev going to those particular website, effectively cutting apple out. Trust me, i try to be as unbiased as anyone out there when it comes to different technologies and different companies, and i DO NOT hate apple. but i just hate hate hate this semi-unfounded love that people have for apple. especially when they think they are some benevolent company that is looking out for ur best interest. for that look up goodwill, or the salvation army. they're not, they're looking out for #1...THIS GUY (and of course, by this guy, with the two thumbs of course, i mean apple).
@MrAffrox
not a whole lot to be honest, especially if you have a full touch screen phone and dont have access to any physical controls. But there was this game that my friends and i were hooked on called desktop tower defense, i'd be late to classes at my college playing it when i had downtime it was that addicting, plus the online score tracking made it that much worse. a game like this would EASILY run for 1.99 or 2.99 if it were ported to work on the iphone. but imagine if that website made a ''for iphone'' version. w/ the millions of iphones that are out there, and even if only 5% of the people bought the game, with apples revenue sharing setup, that would be a boat load of money they'd be missing out on every quarter. now take that game, and multiply it by potentially hundreds, and lets not count the hundreds of games that would be developed specifically for phones in the coming years. ]]>Jan 5th 2010 11:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/there are many people out there that dont want flash on their phone for a few different reasons, it slows down ur phone, it sucks down battery, etc, etc, etc.
but of those people i bet you if asked them if they'd like to have flash in their browser supported, but a simple on/off in the settings to make sure it doesn't give the battery a rundown, they'd say, well yeah...gimme that. anyone that still says, "hell no" is lying to ur face. you know why? its really sucks when you're out somewhere, and u need something to get ______ done, and just ur luck, you dont have it. i have skyfire on my phone, which basically runs every damn page on the web (except hulu ::sad face:: ). I dont like using it to be honest, i much prefer opera 9.5/9.7...but in those few cases where i have needed it, well....... ]]>Jan 5th 2010 11:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
I don't think they are hating on flash, I think they are saying that with flash comes annoying flash advertisements.

I have flash on my Hero, and it is a pain in the butt. I keep it off.]]>Jan 6th 2010 12:04AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
The last time I checked, highlighting something that looks to be a technical nightmare isn't being biased, It's simply being honest. I refuse to believe that any computer scientist in their right mind believes Adobe Flash is a ready for or even suited for mobile devices. Flash is extremely long in the tooth, and worst of all, the cost to even contemplate developing Flash is sky high.

All piracy aside, you talk about Apple fostering a closed development environment while a copy of Flash CS4 Professional costs $699 USD. Who has the coin to develop there other than small businesses and large corporations? You are comparing a proprietary platform on the web (whose nature is wholly open-source i.e. PHP, Perl, Python, HTML, Javascript, Ruby, MySQL [fingers crossed]...The list goes on) with a development environment for a specific device. Apple has abstained from supporting Flash on it's device for a long time, with good reason too. This tech demonstration shows precisely why Flash is not suited for mobile devices. It adds clutter and unnecessary overhead. What mobile devices need are web applications that are tailored specifically for their hardware (mobile versions of sites using Safari for iPhone are great examples of such synergy.)

From the standpoint of a technologist, Flash just doesn't seem like a very viable platform to have on a mobile device, regardless of the bevy of content said technology provides. This was indeed a disappointing tech demo. You shouldn't lambast Engadget for pointing out excellence.]]>Jan 6th 2010 12:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
couldn't have said it better, amen brother]]>Jan 6th 2010 12:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/Now we'll need Flash blocking apps/extensions for mobile browsers. When will we learn?]]>Jan 6th 2010 3:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/But maybe engadget can lead by example and stop running ads in Flash. Ahem.]]>Jan 6th 2010 5:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
Actually, flash is terrible. 10.1 may be the first version that isnt.. if they ever release it between all these demos and previews.]]>Jan 6th 2010 5:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
Now I understand Engadget bias.]]>Jan 6th 2010 5:58AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
Sorry, I can't hear you guys, what with lala turned all the way up on my flash 10.1 enabled phone. Have fun with your Genius mixes.]]>Jan 6th 2010 9:51AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
down here, we dont a look in at all that there fancy highest rank stuff. we's like second class city-zens]]>Jan 6th 2010 11:25AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
@Engadget actually....

Your biased, jealousy, and sarcasm have gotten to be quite sickening.............]]>Jan 6th 2010 1:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
No, it's just that Google f**ked it up. Nokia's implementation on the N900 is miles better.]]>Jan 6th 2010 4:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
By which I mean that since the N900 will run Fennec - as will the Nexus One and other Android devices eventually - you can install FireFox add ons like AdBlock and Flashblock so ...wait for it... you actually see the Flash you want to see!

So, here's the difference:

Pretty much all smartphone platforms EXCEPT the iPhone: Ability to choose the Flash you want and block the rest.
iPhone: No Flash at all.

That my friends is the future of flash based browsing - exactly the same experience you get on your desktop.
]]>Jan 6th 2010 4:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/wow, I ironically read this article and comments section on my iPhone earlier, unable to view the video. I figured the video would display yet another video of a handset with terribly choppy and unusable Flash, and all of the Engadget bias comments were unwarranted... But now I watched the video, and it displayed what I think was the first handset that might finally have a more enjoyable web experience than the iPhone. Considering I'm in an area that has great AT&T coverage and 3G speeds, of course. Their sarcasm in this article really does finally bother me. As much as I hate Apple, I've been putting up with their "closed garden" environment, because Mobile Safari has always been the best general mobile web experience to me. But this is the first time where I could say, "this looks better than Safari, not just probably as good as."

So yeah, tldr version, wtf Engadget? This is actually really awesome! First time I've seen a mobile browser that looks fully featured!

(insert obligatory comment about how Flash is bloated and slow, yet necessary for a full web experience)]]>Jan 6th 2010 10:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/Jan 6th 2010 10:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
Forget mobile, Flash isn't viable on anything portable. Every time I watch a Flash video on my 13" Unibody MacBook, it heats up so much, I can barely hear the audio over the fans. I just wiped and reinstalled Snow Leopard and tried to keep my setup minimal and not add anything that wasn't absolutely necessary, but only lasted half an hour before installing Click To Flash to stop Flash from loading in Safari at all. Having Click To Flash play the same content in Quicktime, there's no strain at all.

Every time I look at Activity Monitor, sorted for %CPU, Flash Player is always in the top three. Even when no video is playing and the browser is hidden.

It's ridiculous that this machine can run Office Apps within Windows XP, within VMWare, but playing a little Flash movie has it overheating.]]>Jan 6th 2010 10:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
]]>Feb 15th 2010 7:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/Jan 5th 2010 7:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/Millions of iphone owners crying right now after watching this video]]>Jan 5th 2010 7:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/]]>Jan 5th 2010 7:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
Gee, I'd sure miss not being able to see all those Flash adverts on an iPhone (or any device....). Will there be a ClickToFlash app for Android? I hope so. Flash has been subverted.]]>Jan 5th 2010 7:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/Who needs copy/paste? right? LOL]]>Jan 5th 2010 7:56PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/Jan 5th 2010 7:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/05/nexus-one-previewed-with-flash-10-1-beta-careful-what-you-wish/
That being said the Nexus One does look very nice but it is no "Super Phone" with so little storage for applications. ]]>Jan 5th 2010 8:48PM