http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 4:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
Interestingly, breathalyzers basically are fuel cells, running on ethanol vapor.]]>Jan 9th 2010 7:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 4:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 4:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/electronics.htm]]>Jan 8th 2010 5:11PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 6:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
Scroll down to page 17 in this PDF to read about this particular product's testing then read the last two slides.

http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/systems/Nov08Meeting/Webster-1108-FuelCell.pdf]]>Jan 8th 2010 8:01PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
yeah carrying a little container with pure liquid hydrogen....you'll have 5 FBI agents on top of you before you even get on board.]]>Jan 9th 2010 1:50AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/RTFA - it's not in a liquid form]]>Jan 9th 2010 2:45AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
nice research. up rank.]]>Jan 9th 2010 1:11PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 9th 2010 8:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 4:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 5:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 5:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 5:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
True, by the Second Law of Thermodynamics. But that's true of any power conversion device. The petrol energy being poured into a a car engine is more than the energy produced by the car engine. The electricity that goes into charge a battery is more than the electricity coming out of the battery.

And, similarly, the electricity energy going an electrolyzer is greater than the hydrogen energy coming out of the electrolyzer (and in turn, the hydrogen energy going into the fuel cell is greater than the electricity coming out of the fuel cell)

Having said that, the efficiency of that chain of conversion losses is probably something like 30%, far less than the 80% of charging and discharging a battery. You're probably not buying this thing for efficiency, you're buying it because you need a really really long run time.]]>Jan 9th 2010 7:33AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/i think that it should be set up so that you can use electricity the first time and then use the hydrogen created to power the creation of more... and word on price?]]>Jan 8th 2010 4:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/don't people learn, you are talking about perpetual energy which is impossible. It takes more energy to split water into H and O2 than you can get from the H and 02

in short your idea breaks the laws of energy conservation ]]>Jan 8th 2010 7:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 4:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
Eight AA batts @ 23g ea. = 184g
One MiniPak (80g) + HydroStik (75g) = 155g

The benefit becomes obvious when you're having to carry lots of batteries for a long time. Double those 8 batts and you're up to 368g, whereas to double up on a HydroStik only increase your load to 230g.

http://horizonfuelcell.com/file/MiniPak_brochure.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_(electricity)

Charging time is important too, see my comment below re: solar charging.

Batteries have two big limitations: weight and charge time.]]>Jan 8th 2010 5:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
Oh how simple our lives would be if every device used AA batteries. If you're hiking and concerned about weight but must bring gadgets, you don't want to carry a spare battery for every device. This minipak provides the user with a compact and simple device that can charge all of those devices.

If it's not insanely expensive I would buy one just because I know it would come in handy when camping with friends. Someones ipod dies, or their cellphone is losing power fast because they didn't turn the wireless off. Here, use my minipak, I have a few cartridges left.]]>Jan 8th 2010 7:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
Scaryfast

I mentioned AAs 'cause that's what was brought up, but you are correct. Hydrogen has potentially much greater energy density than batteries, so when you don't want to carry a lot of mass, hydrogen is the way to go.]]>Jan 8th 2010 8:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 4:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 4:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 4:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 4:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 5:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
Indeed, it is the new measurement standard. For instance I am 16 iphones tall(shown as 16i) and have an iphone weight index of 655.]]>Jan 8th 2010 5:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 6:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 5:05PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
This gets you a full charge in one hour.

If you're using a solar panel to recharge (meaning you only have daylight to burn), what would you prefer: Several HydroStiks @ one hour to charge each, or one battery pack over several hours?]]>Jan 8th 2010 5:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/What about the shelf life once it has been charged? Probably last 3-4 times longer than a traditional rechargeable battery. Also if the cartridges can be reused more than a rechargeable battery, that would be another advantage.]]>Jan 8th 2010 5:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 5:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/what you're missing is that it's meant to be a portable system. much like the battery charger charges the battery to be put into an external charger.
Think about how ridiculous it'll be to have a to carry around an external charger that has water running around in it.. it's simply just asking for trouble. This system is also great because you don't ever have to power off your device to change it and allows you to extend the life of the device without breaking the stride.
The concept of this product is to be an external portable charger. Not a replacement/spare battery. ]]>Jan 8th 2010 5:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
What is the energy density of a fuel stick? an R/C - Airsoft 7/8 cell battery is about 3200-4000mah at 8.4-9.6v]]>Jan 8th 2010 5:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
2W 5V @ 0.04A, with each HydroStik 12Wh

http://horizonfuelcell.com/file/MiniPak_brochure.pdf]]>Jan 8th 2010 5:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 5:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
If you've already invested your money in a battery system, nobody's telling you to buy this.

But for people who are looking for an alternative, this might be the way they prefer to go. Anyway, this is a brand new product, so it's very likely that prices will come down and efficiencies will increase as they continue to develop it.

Another plus for H2 - it doesn't suffer the gradual weakening that you get with batteries, either over their whole lifespan or at teh end of a charge. My Li-Ion batts for my bike lamps aren't as strong as they use to be, and they really a re crappy now in the cold. HydroStiks aren't affected by low temps. I'd consider this system for my bike... (now how about a price, Engadget?)

http://twitpic.com/x8tjm

]]>Jan 8th 2010 5:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 6:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/I'm sorry but I have a feeling you don't understand what this is. It's meant, again, as a charger that does not require you to power off your system and replace the battery. It allows you to charge your system instantly without having to power it down. It is also a universal charging system which means you can charge anything that you can charge via USB.
You also have to look at what technology it is. Solar Cell simply requires sunlight and the cells to transfer light to energy, but this one is based on hydrogen which requires water to change it to solid hydrogen fuel. Think of it this way, would you rather carry a battery that has a very high capacity that can be used at anytime at a smaller form factor, or a battery that has a much smaller capacity and requires a source that is weather based (sun or no sun).
There is no such way to harvest hydrogen into a solid form from the air around you.

so yeah, the point of this system is to allow you to recharge your device without requiring a power down.]]>Jan 8th 2010 6:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 6:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/I think you guys are missing what (Unverified) is saying. He wants to use the cartridge directly with the device, not have the cartridge used by a charger that charges the battery of a device.

Of course, this will take a while to implement and miniaturize.]]>Jan 8th 2010 8:11PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
Jakey, I wish (unverified) had just said what he meant. I posted a link that showed a HydroStik used to power a flashlight, and they are also used to power an RC car.

There's no reason why a whole electronics infrastructure couldn't utilize these little cartridges...

http://horizonfuelcell.com/store/hcell.htm

]]>Jan 8th 2010 8:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/yeah, he wants to have a special battery for all his specific devices. but the point of this specific one is meant to be universal. and also, as i have mentioned earlier, it's also so that you dont have to power your device down. so yeah, one of those things being an extra source of power not a replacement. (besides, it seems like that part where the fuel cell connects to the device has its own way of changing that solid hydrogen fuel to electricity..)]]>Jan 8th 2010 8:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 9th 2010 1:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/
a cute product and a slick package of cutting edge technology do not make up for operating cost.]]>Jan 8th 2010 5:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/how much energy do you think it takes to make a battery and ship it to you compared to the energy stored in the battery?

making portable energy takes energy. i'm more interested in what their 'solid' form of hydrogen is.]]>Jan 8th 2010 5:17PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 5:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 5:17PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/08/horizon-minipak-personal-fuel-cell-charger-hands-on-video/Jan 8th 2010 5:24PM