http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/ Engadget Comments for FCC chairman echoes commissioner's sentiments, says Verizon's ETF response 'raised more questions than it answered' http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 2:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/+1
communication gap ;)]]>Jan 9th 2010 3:15AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
"FCC chariman echoes commissioner's sentiments, says Verizon's ETF response 'raised more questions than it answered'"

What's a chariman?]]>Jan 9th 2010 7:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
can someone tell me what the document name is?]]>Jan 9th 2010 2:13AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 3:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/GnR, 'Civil War'?]]>Jan 9th 2010 4:56AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 11th 2010 1:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 2:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
How about you just exercising your ability to choose a company that does not do that?]]>Jan 9th 2010 2:29AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 2:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.product-reviews.net/2009/09/14/htc-touch-pro-2-compared-on-sprint-t-mobile-and-verizon/"]link [/URL] Hopefully this works....]]>Jan 9th 2010 2:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
That's exactly what he's saying. Instead of an ETF being something that makes the carrier recoup not only the price of the phone, but actually MAKES them money, it equals out to be the cost of the phone. In my opinion, I do think this should be mandated.

And in the US, try finding a carrier that does this. They all charge ridiculous ETFs.]]>Jan 9th 2010 3:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
I typed up a little comparison for ya...

Sprint Touch Pro 2 $600 - Verizon $490 ETF+SUB=$550
Unlocked Storm 2 $565 - Verizon $540 ETF+SUB= $550
Sprint Hero $480 - Verizon ERis $470 ETF+SUB= $450
Sprint Pre $550 - Verizon $200? ETF+SUB= $550
Sprint Pixi $400 - Verizon $100/$50? ETF+SUB= 450/400
]]>Jan 9th 2010 3:30AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
How about:
a) Paying for the phone in full from the get go.
b) Paying for the phone in increments tacked onto your monthly plan with interest. And if you leave your contract early the ETA would be the remaining balance you owe on the phone.

That seems pretty fair to me.
]]>Jan 9th 2010 3:33AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 3:38AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
It's called profit.

Companies get to make a profit if they want. So long as they inform you of their ETF, they are doing nothing unlawful or even wrong. Even if their ETF is $1000, so long as they are upfront about it, there's nothing wrong.

I think the only reform that could be made is to ensure that all customers understand what the ETF is, when it's triggered, etc. Let the companies and consumers settle the actual figures. If the company comes out making a profit... well that was the whole reason they got in the business, now isn't it?

There's simply nothing wrong with that. If you don't like ETFs, buy the phone yourself. there are lots of cheap good ones.]]>Jan 9th 2010 4:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/The goverment has a right to step in because Verizon is using a goverment controlled spectrum which is limited and this also limits competition. There is also the right of the Government to regulate something that has a vital impact on a public need. It is fine that Verizon make a profit, that is a good thing, it is bad when they hold a major control over a utility and they gouge the public when history has shown thier limited competition usually shortly follows.]]>Jan 9th 2010 11:59AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/]]>Jan 11th 2010 1:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 2:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/I think they meant cherryman.]]>Jan 9th 2010 3:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 2:33AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
While people might sue, because you can sue anyone for anything, it would be a loser of a suit.

there's no breach. It was a legit contract, and laws cannot be made ex post facto (apply before they were made). If, by some horrible turn, they make it illegal to charge a high ETF, that will only apply to future contracts or terminations. You won't be able to sue for you paying such a fee yesterday. US Constitution 101.

It's not gouging, because there's plenty of competition. It's completely possible and easy to get a cell phone with no ETF. I do not see any justification for this inquiry at all, and I hope Verizon takes this to court.]]>Jan 9th 2010 4:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
Oh wait, they would never do that, because then we would know how much bullshit they're charging us per month aside from that. ]]>Jan 9th 2010 2:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 2:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 2:55AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
However as a current Verizon customer, I just don't care that much. I couldn't see myself on any other network, and Verizon is just getting a slew of new phones, between the Nexus One eventually coming over, and even more improved versions of the Pre and Pixi, combined with the largest 3G coverage...I just don't care as a current Verizon customer. I've never had a dropped call, and the calls are crystal clear.

So as an individual customer of Verizon I can't see myself ever wanting to drop out of a contract early. But that still doesn't make it right. Something should be done about the price.]]>Jan 9th 2010 3:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 3:33AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 3:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
Look, I agree that the ETF is high, but I don't want some federal body to intervene just because some people cried about it. This could lead to a whole slew of complaints to other federal bodies to intervene anytime someone "thinks" they were treated unfairly.

This new ETF only applies to new contracts. That means only to new customers or customers who upgrade to an advanced device. Current customers retain their current ETF. The new ETF is made clear when getting the new contract. If you don't want to pay that money, simply don't get the contract. There are other carriers out there and you can always buy the phone without a contract. Another option is to just get a regular handset (pretty much anything without a full web browser of which Verizon offers dozens). Regular handsets still retain the $175.00 ETF.

The fact of the matter is it doesn't effect you unless you CHOOSE to sign a contract stating so. Should I also cry to the Housing Department that the fee for breaking lease on my apartment is equal to 2 months rent? Should I cry to Congress that if my car gets repossessed, I still have to pay off the car? If you sign a contract with a penalty for breaking that contract, pay the dang penalty and get over it. Read what your signing people and stop crying. Just my $0.02.]]>Jan 9th 2010 9:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 3:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 3:57AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
I agree completely.

Many people in this thread do not understand what would happen if ETFs were decreased. The company will still get their money. They may simply increase bills and fees, or they will subsidize phones at a lower level.

Let the customers and companies negotiate this. And believe me, you can. You can buy a cheap phone and get no ETF at all if you want. These companies are competing hard for your business. The only intervention that seems legit to me is to ensure customers know the terms of the contract.

You WANT these companies to make a lot of profit. That's the reason they have sweet phones and data service and are upgrading to 4g. Profit motive. Why take away their profit? That leads to hellish innovation levels.

Oh course, if you can't honor your contract and pay ETFs all the time, maybe you don't think that far ahead and don't care about those things. I've paid an ETF once, but it was what I agreed to do. There's no reason to babysit us.]]>Jan 9th 2010 4:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 9:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 9:51AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 4:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
Yep, just read your contract. Understand what you're signing up for. You aren't getting a $800 iphone for $99. You are getting an $800 iphone and 2 years phone service and data service for $99 + $2400.

This is simple shit.

If customers are really unaware of this, then absolutely the government should require some kind of easy to understand label, like nutrition labels on candy bars. Won't change anything. People still eat crap, and people will still get mad when they can't break their contracts for free or ignore their credit card bills. But at least they had a good warning.]]>Jan 9th 2010 4:33AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
"In the meantime, just don't get tired of that Droid too fast, alright? "

Does this mean that VZW may have a little problem getting new phones to market.]]>Jan 9th 2010 5:08AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
It seems no one on here has mentioned that you can still get a REGULAR handset for the normal $175 ETF. If you don't want the higher ETF, but still want a subsidized price on a phone, just get something that's not a smartphone/PDA/Blackberry. If you absolutely must have an advanced device, then you have options if you don't want the ETF.

1. Pick another carrier
2. Buy the phone at full retail price
3. Buy it on a site like EBay / Craigslist without contract then activate with VZW

Personally, I'm glad to see that the majority of the people on here have the common sense to understand why the ETF is increased and that the free market can make this decision on it's own. I just hope the FCC eventually gets the message. If this continues with Verizon, then you may not be able to get your Nexus One with any carrier at a subsidized price. Keep in mind that with T-Mobile, Google is charging an ETF as well as T-Mobile's ETF....even if Google's is for just a short time.]]>Jan 9th 2010 9:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
It's not that simple. Even some of Verizon's "dumb phones" fall under the $350 ETF. Any phone with a touch screen does force you to sign a contract with the higher ETF. Their classification for smart phone is completely arbitrary. Their argument for it doesn't even really apply. They claim it lowers the price of the phone, but then why can't you sign a contract for a fairly new dumb phone that that will take even more off by agreeing to a higher ETF? This has nothing to do with price and everything to do with holding customers at gunpoint so they don't switch carriers. Touch screens don't add that much cost to a phone, otherwise the Nintendo DS would have been a huge flop. Even Sony's touch screen ebook doesn't cost any more than you would think an ebook with a touch screen should.]]>Jan 9th 2010 1:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
But if it's about holding customers "at gunpoint" why hasn't everyone jumped on the Nexus One for the possibility of over $500.00 in ETF's instead of praising it like it's a revolutionary phone? The fact of the matter is, in my opinion, customers aren't being held at gunpoint, they're being made to live up to their end of the contract they signed. If you don't want the ETF...once again...don't sign the contract.]]>Jan 9th 2010 4:11PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
(subsided price at purchase + regular price at purchase - subsided price at purchase) that way its fair and your paying the true price otherwise come up with a leasing solution.

Make every cellular providers give a discount if you bring your own phone none of them do except T-mobile and a reason on why needs to be asked. If you are not buying a phone from them you should not be paying the same price per month as someone whom is and should not be subject to the same contracts.

Verizon, Sprint, & every other provider should be forced to activate any phone on there network as long as it supports the band and can function properly no matter if it came from Korea, Japan, China or Mars]]>Jan 9th 2010 11:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/Jan 9th 2010 2:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
Yes...they CAN forcibly make Verizon lower it. The point of the argument is that they SHOULDN'T. If they do, it opens up arguments in every other field where contracts are required. In addition, it shows that the federal government will gladly come screaming in when the free market can easily handle the situation. ]]>Jan 9th 2010 4:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/
The free market obviously can't handle ridiculous contracts and termination fees, since we've been dealing with them for years with phone prices that are barely subsidized based on their cost of production. At this point, the federal government needs to step in and do something about this, because they're the biggest carrier out there, and they're using brute force to continue to expand their market and make more money.]]>Jan 9th 2010 4:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/09/fcc-chariman-echoes-commissioners-sentiments-says-verizons-et/1 - smart phones will free fall in price making them less than the subsidized prices faster.
2 - The carriers become what they should be - dumb pipes. Focus on speed and reliability rather than weak ass crap like vcast.
3 - No etf's as the phones are separate from the plans
4 - the customer has the power as we can simply do month to month as a contract is not needed since we don't need a subsidized phone from the carrier.

Force the phone to be separated from the carrier and the customer will then have the power of the market on their side. ]]>Jan 9th 2010 5:14PM