http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 7:32AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Hate to break it to you, but it says 'DRM' right there on the diagram. Three times.]]>Jan 10th 2010 7:45AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
its still drm, just in another form]]>Jan 10th 2010 8:56AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
If all the keys get grouped together, then once you've paid for something you can access it elsewhere.

Disney aren't (probably!) going anywhere any time soon, but the smaller poxy little companies might. At least this way your purchases are getting a little more protection should the smaller company suddenly vanish, and you'll still be able to access your movies, just from another company..]]>Jan 10th 2010 9:30AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/I wouldn't classify it as DRM. From what I've read, and how its currently being explained, its more like "permission to stream". Disney just keeps track of all your purchases, which everyone else can look at for verification. Only problem is if you buy from Acme corp. why would Pinnacle ltd. want to use their bandwidth to stream you the media?]]>Jan 10th 2010 10:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Well, I guess I shouldn't have inferred this was limited to streaming. The DRM you're looking at is simply the DRM from either Pinnacle or Acme (specific to those entities). The KeyChest is a back end "receipt" system as I said above.]]>Jan 10th 2010 10:45AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
Disney's blu-ray combo-packs include a real DVD & a very DRMd Digital Copy (expires in 12 months.) They could adjust their DRM servers or use use p2p for delivery.]]>Jan 10th 2010 11:02AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Well, again, this isn't Disney specific. And P2Ping DRM media could pose an issue (unless they can add the DRM separately from a main server and allow the bulk of the media to come through the P2P cloud).]]>Jan 10th 2010 11:17AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
What could happen, but unfortunately never will is buying a game on XBL and being able to download it free on PSN. That will probably be the most useful thing that could ever come of this, and I would love to see it happen. Even though I don't really need the game for both, I paid for a licensed game and should be able to play it on either system.]]>Jan 10th 2010 1:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
Keychest is a step in the right direction.. but, the chest might just be pandora's box raising consumer expections of what fair is. IMO, if I bought it once--it's my license forever, period. I have no qulams over ripping DVD's or downloading an MP3 for the CD I have stashed away somewhere.. ]]>Jan 10th 2010 9:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
So.... how do you unlock the KeyChest? With a Keyblade, I suppose? ]]>Jan 11th 2010 2:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 7:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 8:15AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/sounds like edit creep. change from "I attended" to "we attended". I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.]]>Jan 10th 2010 10:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 7:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 7:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
This is DRM, just "cross company" - and cross company only in Disney's dreams. I doubt that other companies would like to share their profits with Disney for - nothing?]]>Jan 10th 2010 7:59AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/If you bought a disc from me with my content on it, are you suggesting that I should then be required to provide you with additional discs of that same content any time you want?

I don't think so - even the discs themselves cost money (not that much, of course, but the point is that a company can't be mandated to *GIVE* you stuff.)

Digital downloads, if the customer offsets the bandwidth requirements, I see as a possibility for "lifetime" content replacement, but that's about it.]]>Jan 10th 2010 4:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 7:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
Abolishing DRM worked for music because everyone and their brother already had a library of thousands of non-DRM mp3 files. Video is a little different.

I'd love it if all the studios dropped the requirement for DRM, but they won't. Not soon anyway.

The trouble with this is: the studios (Disney being one of them) get their licence fee regardless. Comcast, iTunes, whoever, they're all paying Disney. But why would Disney want to lose a sale by helping out the customer like this? Sure, it'd be nice of them, and in a perfect world that sale wouldn't need to exist anyway - but surely they'd rather a customer CONSIDER buying a video file twice rather than not? Right?

Any project that relies on the altruism of huge media distribution companies to succeed is doomed.

I'm surprised Disney haven't realised that themselves.]]>Jan 10th 2010 7:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Thinking that everybody and their brother doesn't already have access to DRM-free, unrestricted video of almost all the Movies and TV shows in the world is naive to say the least.

Getting access to DRM-free video is now just as easy as getting DRM-free music. And makes much more sense considering the arbitrary region al limits and staggered release of many popular movies and TV shows.]]>Jan 10th 2010 8:00AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
If you had a library of copyright non-DRM audio 5 years ago, you just (legally) ripped a bunch of CDs.

The only reason iTunes et al went DRM-free is political. Record labels offered competitors non-DRM music files in order to try and destabilise Apple's hold on the music market. It didn't quite work, but customers got used to the idea (and were apparently willing to pay more for) non-DRM music. The studios capitulated and let Apple in on the deal primarily because it meant they could sell chart singles for $1.29 instead of 99¢.

Anyway, the studios won't condone file sharing, piracy, or encryption circumvention by legitimising non-DRM video. Not soon anyway. Not while 90% (pulling figures out of my arse) of video file owners have got there via the above methods and not via putting cash in the studios' pockets.

Pretend you're a studio big wig, why would you want to make it easier for people to pirate video (theoretically) when you're not even making much money off video downloads anyway? The studios will wait until they are making a nice steady income from video downloads some time over the next 5 years before they pull the plug on DRM.]]>Jan 10th 2010 8:50AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/The problem is that DRM does not stop piracy, I have a spare hard drive filled to the brim with movies I ripped from legally purchased DVD's. To be able to do so was a simple case of finding a couple of pieces of free software. Studios may be unwilling to relent on DRM because they fear it will increase piracy but the opposite is true, the sad fact is that to get video files of my legally purchased DVD's onto my computer I had to jump through several more hoops then would of been required to just visit the Pirate Bay or a similar site. Like it or not the studios are in competition with the pirates, and by putting up barriers to viewers they only drive them to easier, more widespread services. The studios have made one step forwards and a few steps back with services like Hulu, as they seem incapable of realising that leaving months between the release of popular TV programs in the US and the rest of the world creates a massive opportunity for pirates.

The studios so far have only asked how they can stop piracy, which is simply put, impossible to do, costs a lot of money and generally annoys your legitimate customers and makes your illegitimate ones more vitriolic. They should be asking why people are turning to piracy, and the answer to that question lies in the fact that these studios have failed to serve their customers demands. Ad-supported streaming services are a great idea, but have only been done properly in a few cases, and Hulu is turning into a great example of what not to do with a VoD service.]]>Jan 10th 2010 9:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/"legal" is most likely an improbable statement. While yes, it is true that legally you are entitled to a backup of all of your movies, it is also true that breaking the encryption to get the backup is illegal... Sort of a catch 22 huh? Any way, I can see this KeyChest as a way to counter that argument. If you have a Disney KeyChest record, then perhaps they could say you legally have a backup, or at least a means to retrieve one, and that you were no longer entitled to a NAS filled to the top (personally I would counter with an "not if I'm offline" defense- but then I'm toying with some ideas).

Any way, this system doesn't specify that a vendor does or does not have DRM on the media. Say you bought DRM protected media from iTunes (as in the article example) but later were using DRMfreemedia.com (does this exist?) to download your previous purchase again. If this new source gives out the media w/o DRM, well, then thats up to them; but you shouldn't have to pay for it again...]]>Jan 10th 2010 11:01AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/ @Mojzu Except that if you have a library of copyright non-DRM video
> files today, you have to have committed piracy, or willfully
> circumvented DVD encryption (DMCA violation, IIRC).

So? What's Disney going to do? Haul you into court and watch as you drag out your entire legitimately purchased collection to show the jury? The only people the "DMCA problem" is going to stop are those people that desperately want to give Apple a distribution monopoly.

If they can rip a CD, they will rip a movie. Both sets of tools are readily available. The only real barrier is comfort and technical understanding.]]>Jan 10th 2010 11:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
"The studios so far have only asked how they can stop piracy, which is simply put, impossible to do, costs a lot of money and generally annoys your legitimate customers and makes your illegitimate ones more vitriolic. They should be asking why people are turning to piracy,"

Right there. +1]]>Jan 10th 2010 11:59AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
These companies keep complaining about increasing piracy whilst all they do is add more levels of complexity and obfuscation to their own products. Which in the end will only increase the costs of the 'legitimate' products.]]>Jan 10th 2010 7:51AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 11th 2010 1:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 8:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 11:17AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 8:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 9:15AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Exactly what I thought, sounds like Steam for movies. Let's hope they don't ruin everything, and we might get a decent product out of it.]]>Jan 10th 2010 12:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
I have no doubt that Apple and Microsoft will get in on this, I wonder what Sony will do since they run their own video store on the PSN.

Buy a copy of a movie somewhere and all of a sudden they're providing bandwidth for a download they have gotten no revenue on.]]>Jan 10th 2010 8:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Not DRM at all. /irony]]>Jan 10th 2010 8:55AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 12:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 9:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 9:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 9:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/Jan 10th 2010 9:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
The more you try to lock out your customers, the more they will turn to pirates. I have now way more pirated content than I had 10 years ago, and 10 years ago my country was a pirate heaven! Way to do your business...]]>Jan 10th 2010 9:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
KeyChest is will just simplify DRM verification. If KeyChest dies, you go back to the old (awful) way of verifying your media is yours... ]]>Jan 10th 2010 10:14AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
Your the sort of person that should be banned from watching TV/Film etc or Listening to music. If it wasnt for people like you we wouldnt need DRM in the first place.

I mean to think if they remove all DRM, that people will go "hey, they removed the DRM. I'm now going to legally buy all of my content" is just plain stupid.]]>Jan 10th 2010 10:24AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
I'm with you 100%

If They got rid of DRM THE ENTIRE SYSTEM COMEPLETLY

What in heck is going to change a pirating person from not downloading it illegally.

I mean even the people who go "The reason all these pirates exist is because of DRM." And they claim to pirate too.

They aren't going to say "OH WELL LOOK AT THIS, They stopped DRM. I am not GOING TO LEGALY BUY THIS SONG/MOVIE/etc."

NO They are not, They will continue to pirate them like before.


There is nothing we can do to stop piracy unless they got court orders to search all your hard drives for illegally gained material and charge them all.

But they won't. Can't. And wouldn't have the resources to.]]>Jan 10th 2010 11:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/**EDIT***

I meant:

They aren't going to say "OH WELL LOOK AT THIS, They stopped DRM. I am *now* GOING TO LEGALY BUY THIS SONG/MOVIE/etc."]]>Jan 10th 2010 11:33AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/You can't stop piracy. Period. Researchers have come to that conclusion, and it plays out that way in real life. However, you can encourage piracy by making it a great pain to use legitimately bought media how you want to, which is what DRM does. Dropping DRM doesn't give really give you legitimate customers, but it will stop you from losing them.

And this is DRM, just a different flavor. Also, a huge privacy problem.]]>Jan 10th 2010 2:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
i cant see DRM for film/tv going away anytime soon, so something like this is a step in the right direction.]]>Jan 10th 2010 10:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
Of course my first thought when seeing that diagram was: "the ultimate spyware".

Sorry, no thanks. I prefer the simple option: NO DRM.]]>Jan 10th 2010 11:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/I'm sorry, but is letting a company know you bought music/films really that big a problem for you?]]>Jan 10th 2010 11:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/10/disneys-keychest-is-not-drm/
Even if it weren't something quite as extreme as that, there are various situations in which such knowledge gives the company some power over you. If you don't think so, you probably haven't thought this out much.]]>Jan 10th 2010 3:30PM