http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 5:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 5:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 5:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Great article. While many of these issues can technically be solved with Windows in one way or another, what Windows needs is an intuitive way to combine all of them. WebOS/iPhone OS are successful because while their functions are limited, they integrate all aspects of a smartphone in an easy to use package. Windows is exponentially more complicated, but I think Windows 7 took an important step towards the right direction.]]>Jan 21st 2010 6:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
Hm, why aren't you banned yet?

Althought I agree with you - it is informative. I may not agree with everything here, but it's nice to see a serious article here.

]]>Jan 21st 2010 6:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 6:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
10. Lack of purpose and excitement

Solution: Try harder]]>Jan 21st 2010 6:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/1-10 Problems: Lazy
Solution: Try Harder!]]>Jan 21st 2010 6:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 6:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
Banned for what?]]>Jan 21st 2010 6:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
Number 6(hardware),7(cost),8(keyboard usability) and 10(new OS features) are getting pretty important. Of course Apple's got number 6 and 7 cleared by building their own laptops but when running Linux/Windows, and you want to play a game the way it is advertized, you got to spend hundreds in hardware because your 1 year old PC is out of date. Also, Number is starting to be very important. We just reached a new decade guys! Give us some new stuff. Of course KDE4 added a lot of new features with Plasma and the new apps and so did openSuSE and Ubuntu but most people can't use Linux for many reasons(most of which are stupid) and this only affects only about 3% of those who use computers. Windows and OS X haven't changed that much in 5 years. Of course UIs changed but thats normal. We need new features if you want to us to keep buying your software.]]>Jan 21st 2010 7:05PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
Try going to thehobbylounge.com you will find a gadget that you can customize to show you all the stuff you want to know about your PC]]>Jan 21st 2010 7:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/You're not getting the whole gist of this article. You are a geek, there is nothing wrong with that, but normal people do not want to stuff around with assigning tasks to keys, etc. That is NOT intuitive.]]>Jan 21st 2010 8:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Now it's MS's turn to implement everything. Good luck with that coming out soon...]]>Jan 21st 2010 9:50PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
Win + X = Mobile control panel. Another useful shortcut is Win + P, which allows you to easily manage external displays.]]>Jan 21st 2010 11:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
2 - Natal, and motion control for that matter, isn't a solution for anything other then making sub-standard games and unresponsive interfaces.

3 - Everything on my PC is aware of the internet. iPhone isn't a solution to anything other then fart apps

4 - Is this really a problem??? Power management software??

5 - I don't see this as something 'needed to be intergrated more' with the OS

6 - I don't even know how to address this one. You don't know what games to buy...and your solution is an iPhone?

7 - Well I do agree with you here, unfortunetley

8 - Knowledge is the only answer here. Speech recogniztion won't help you if you don't know what to ask for....

9 - This should have nothing to do with an OS

10 - Getting cool OS updates is always a plus....not sure if I would rank this though in a top 10 outdated PC concept list though.]]>Jan 22nd 2010 11:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/*head asplodes*]]>Jan 21st 2010 5:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
I know on my blog I can make it to where it publishes at a specific time. It's probably what he did.]]>Jan 21st 2010 5:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Sounds about right, since it was published at 5:30. It was just funny to see when I listening to Paul on the podcast at the same time.]]>Jan 21st 2010 5:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 5:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 5:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 7:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/And how come swiping your way through 50 open apps is easier than seeing thumbnails of all and pointing to the one you want.

I don't see that pointing and clicking is harder then memorizing increasingly complex gestures to do the same thing.

Even chimps can point to what they want. How did that become too complex and need to be "simplified"? I see a picture of a calendar and point to it, then my calendar app opens. It's so simple that according to democracy it's the future of healthcare.]]>Jan 21st 2010 8:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Actually, when you have 50 apps, Expose becomes pretty useless because (1) the thumbnails are very tiny and (2) the human brain isn't very good at spotting things in a non-linear fashion once you get above 10 or so.

Solution would be to not show 50 apps -- find some way of showing only the ones you're most likely to click on.]]>Jan 21st 2010 9:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/And I believe this is what Spaces is for. Put ten apps (work-related) in one, ten apps (goofing off) in another, and ten apps (for misc.) in another. Go to the desired Space and then do Expose – the way it's designed right now is just narrowing down before narrowing down. Personally, I'm comfortable with the way it works now, but I'm definitely open to new paradigms. ]]>Jan 22nd 2010 2:04AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
Expose is a "solution" to a problem that shouldn't exist, a problem that stems from the Mac's poor decision to make all apps share a single menu. Among other problems, this encourages developers to spawn a gaggle of floating windows that turn your desktop into a mess and make it impossible to minimize, move, or resize an app's UI.

The author is clearly a Mac user, but fails to mention (under "window management") the Mac's inexplicable inability to resize windows from any edge (or even any corner). You're continually rolling down to the lower-right corner, adjusting, rolling all the way back to the title bar to move the window, and then repeating all that if it's not quite right. Stupid.]]>Jan 22nd 2010 2:39AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/ Trackpad. There are video clips of each gesture, including the 4 finger swipe.

There should be a tutorial though that plays when an account is logged in for the first time though, as I know quite a few mac users that never even go into system preferences (in their defense, it is well hidden...in the dock).]]>Jan 22nd 2010 12:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
Didn't anyone else notice this whole article was basically a slam on Windows and Mac OS' that must maintain legacy support for older devices, software, and protocols? Notice all the "fixed/improved" are newer OS that because it is new it does not have to give a damn about legacy support in the first place.. ]]>Jan 23rd 2010 12:59AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 5:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 6:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 5:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
I agree, man. And to be honest, Apple continually talks up their "togetherness" with all of their products. I honestly don't see why they wouldn't implemented this sooner. For goodness sake, they could even tie it in with MobileMe and I'd be happy as hell. ]]>Jan 22nd 2010 2:30AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
I mean, obviously it would be better than the window management in osx (as there is none), but seriously...shoving programs and windows all around to the sides and such would be much more complicated than having everything housed in the taskbar]]>Jan 21st 2010 5:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
So you have no idea wtf you are talking about then? Expose and spaces are window management that works awesomely. Add per app expose to that and i dont see what else you could need.

You really should learn something before making ridiculous statements like that.]]>Jan 21st 2010 5:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
And Spaces? Multiple desktops isn't really a "windows management" system since it places pieces where you can't interact with both at the same time - you're constantly flipping from A to B to deal with different windows separated by a virtual wall.

While you may not agree with me or with Jordan, he has good points that you just MIGHT want to look at objectively.]]>Jan 21st 2010 6:05PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/I completely agree...Expose & Spaces in OSX and Compiz plugins & Work spaces in Linux have always been better than Window's Alt+tab/Win+tab (windows doesn't even have an out of the box answer to spaces).

And yeah this editorial threw me off when you said you can't learn to hit Alt+tab to manage your windows...seriously...]]>Jan 21st 2010 6:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
I'm sorry, I use OS X and Windows everyday. Spaces is not windows management as much as it's workflow management. Expose is the best way to find a certain window of any OS, but that's just a small part of window management. I agree with the original poster, windows management is virtually non-existant in OS X. Windows and Linux have much more capable window management.]]>Jan 21st 2010 6:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
Well given that the only computer I own is a Mac, yeah I've used a Mac and Expose/Spaces....they suck.

I have Windows 7 installed, which I honestly used the majority of time - just personal preference not here to argue - but the window management in OSx is absolutely horrendous. 7's window management is absolutely amazing.]]>Jan 21st 2010 6:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 7:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
I use both every day. I don't get what you're saying. The Windows 7 taskbar is nice, but the dock in OS X is practically the same and was done years before. Command-tab flips between programs, Command-backtick(tilde) flips between windows in a program. I use spaces all the time... but it only really works well if you set programs to open in certain spaces by default (like I have web browsers on the top left, mail in the one below that, utilities top middle, itunes top right, etc.)

Don't get me wrong... I love what Microsoft did with W7. I love the new Win+Arrow keys shortcuts (and Shift+Win+Arrow keys for dual monitors). I like how you can double-click the very top of a window's title bar and make it maximize vertically. I like how you can drag a window to be maximized, or drag it left or right to put the window on half of the screen. And I like that the taskbar can be just icons instead of text... I can put the taskbar on the left, making the space on my wide-screen monitor more efficient. I do the same in OS X with the dock.

So, yes, those things are nice... but OS X has some nice things too, and they were there back in the XP days. My only grip about OS X window management: I want to be able to actually maximize windows.]]>Jan 21st 2010 9:30PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/ gripe]]>Jan 21st 2010 9:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
I think this is what you're missing:

Open two windows of a program, any program. Now minimize them (For arguments sake, I won't get into how ANNOYING it is how small the +, -, and x buttons are on OSx windows). Now try and manage that program - it's extremely difficult compared to Windows. I have the icon of the program on the left, and then I have two icons for the two windows on the right of the dock. But I can't really tell which window is which. I can make them hide inside the program icon itself, but it' still more of a hastle to open the window than it is with the taskbar in Windows.

Now let's say I'm using an Internet browser and a pop up window opens. Let's say I want that pop-up open but I want to do something back in my original browser window. Since I like full screen windows (or as full screen as OSx allows), the pop up gets stuck behind my browser window, BUT there is NOTHING on the dock for the pop-up, and no way to get back to the pop up without going through Expose or minimizing all my open windows to get to it. This represents extremely poor windows management.

If this same example were to happen in Windows, I would have something on my taskbar for the pop-up and could quickly get back to it by clicking on it in the taskbar.]]>Jan 22nd 2010 2:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/I think you are completely right about minimize maximize etc....

But, you can tell which windows are which when they are minimized, as it says above them when you hover over, and are also little pictures of the window. I don't think this is any better than Windows 7, but it definitely isn't any better.

Using Exposé to get to that pop-up in your second argument is easier than going down to the task-bar. It's definitely quicker. Especially with the multitouch trackpads etc. I also can't imagine ever having more than say 15 windows open at a time, and expose is still very easy at that point. Who needs 50 windows open at once?]]>Jan 22nd 2010 8:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
i don't agree about the MacOS lacking window's management. it's not a style that many use or perhaps use well it but it is there.

that said, I think that we will find the trend moving toward computers having options more like smart phones. perhaps not as the only interface but as an option. so those that are comfy in that realm can use them, but those that are more comfortable with the old school can stick with that. and over time,the old school will likely morph away. ]]>Jan 22nd 2010 2:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 23rd 2010 11:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 5:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 6:07PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/Jan 21st 2010 5:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/]]>Jan 21st 2010 5:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/editorial-10-outdated-elements-of-desktop-operating-systems/
I was thinking the same thing. He neglected to mention Expose entirely, supposedly because it wouldnt gel with his theory that managing windows is difficult.

I can flick between tasks with the click of a button in under a second with it.

Spaces...i dont think i ever used that...]]>Jan 21st 2010 6:09PM