http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/ Engadget Comments for Panasonic's response on shifting black levels in plasma HDTVs: 'There's nothing to fix' http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 8:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
I bought a 50" Panny 2 years ago and was extremely happy with it. Long story short, it was stolen and I bought another 50" plasma this weekend. After reading about this last week I went with a Sammy and never considered the Panny.]]>Feb 10th 2010 9:08AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
This is why I own a PIO KRP 500M. 'Panny' is JUNKY ]]>Feb 10th 2010 10:44AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 8:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
Great idea. Limit what you can watch because of your TV. It's not as if we buy TVs so we can watch what we like. Why would we do that? No we watch what out TV lets us. You, sir, are a genius. ]]>Feb 10th 2010 10:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
That was evidently the last Panasonic TV I'll be buying. Shame, it was otherwise pretty good... I just can't knowingly give my money to a company that ignores its customers.
]]>Feb 10th 2010 8:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 8:30AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 8:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/:€]]>Feb 10th 2010 8:38AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
Panasonic is gonna get sued if this is in fact a programmed degradation in device performance. If the TV, because of the technology and materials used, simply gets less black over time, say due to exposue to sunligt, or breakdown of a critical material, that MAY get by, but for software to be able to control this AT ALL, leads any reasonable person to believe its preventable, especially when other TVs do NOT exhibit this function, and if anywhere there's a memo inside Panasonic where they reviewed particular design options and someone clarified "do it this way, because it will make people replace their TVs sooner!"

Glad i own no Panasonic hardware at all. I apparently have a good reason to continue that trend. ]]>Feb 10th 2010 8:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Its not planned obsolescence. I think its more along the lines of they made some questionably useful tech in order to inflate their stats on "White to black" time.]]>Feb 10th 2010 8:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
Who cares if it lasts 50k hours instead of 10k hours if it looks like crap for the last 30k hours?]]>Feb 10th 2010 12:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
Absolutely. I didn't spend top dollar on a tv for it to look like crap. I could have easy gone to Wally World and bought some shitty LCD and saved a lot of money if I wanted a crappy picture for an extended period. Very disappointing. ]]>Feb 10th 2010 3:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 8:43AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 9:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
Do they have a similar software system?

Or do they look EXACTLY the same from day one to ten years later?

Some perspective is required here.]]>Feb 10th 2010 9:04AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
However, changing levels as a day-to-day thing isn't acceptable. At ten years, I figure it's probably lived out reasonable expectations, by then a much better set will be available cheaply, and the old plasma can be used for less critical applications.]]>Feb 10th 2010 10:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 9:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
Now this could be due to the level of technological advancement that we are currently at, or it just could be a cop out on quality on Panasonic's part.

Now, it is a totally different question whether or not this is actually legal or ethical on Panasonic's part. Deceit can influence buying patterns, and this damage may be irreparable. I strongly believe that a product should work as spec-d for the duration of at least the warrantied part, if not longer. I also believe that a company should not impose a "PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE" as stated above. But honestly, this is not how business is run in this day and age. Unfortunately we haven't yet reached an honest business market, nor do I believe we will as long as a goal of a company is to maximize profit. Companies need money, and Panasonic doesn't seem to want to stand above the rest or be any different. ]]>Feb 10th 2010 9:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 9:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
firmware update pushed over the interwebs
I have been reading this thread because of the recent black issue info.

Here is my story, which is very relevant. When I got my g10 it was lousy with the green thing. I go tin touch with panny about this and they said there was no 'fix' planned. Over some time the panel 'burned in' or what ever you want to call it, and I kinda got used to it, so it got less bad and I got used to it, although, emotionally it was not rewarding for me, just a personal aside.

Tonight I decided to see what the firmware of my set was, and because the about screen is cryptic I kept looking and went to viera cast, and I was asked if I wanted to install a software update, and I choose yes. When it was done things looked less green, so I searched this site to find out how to see the firmware, after apparently finding the code, it turns out I was pushed 1.28 over the web tonight. I do not see anymore green tint, blues are clean and blue again, whites are white and skin tones are again skin tones.
I also feel the brightness it tweaked up a bit in THS mode.
So, while the Panny corp line is not fix for the 2009 models black level being abruptly over compensated.... I think this is how Panny does there thing, then when they have it sorted out they let into the wild.
Considering that they already know about the problem and already tweaked it for the 2010 builds, I would bet that a firmware update will quietly be released into the wild when it is ready. So I am not going to panic about this issue at this time.

My 2 cents about my experience so far.

cheers. And thanks to this group for helping me get my set sorted out tonight.]]>Feb 10th 2010 9:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 9:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 9:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
]]>Feb 10th 2010 9:50AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 9:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 10:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 10:11AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 2:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 10:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
I, like many, many others, am someone who has recommended Panasonic to quite a few people who have actually bought their products. While I still enjoy my Plasma and assume that most of these people might not notice this issue in theirs, I still feel badly about having recommended a product by a company who treats their customers like morons. We are anything but; after all, we bought Plasma over inferior LCD because we are discerning enough to see the difference and understand the subtleties. Please address this problem with an honest press release and a firmware update and you might keep your invaluably loyal customers.]]>Feb 10th 2010 10:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
I'm not entirely sure if all the reason I love my TV is due to it being plasma, or simply being Samsung engineered, but it looks significantly different from most LCDs I've seen.

All said, I'd take a Panasonic plasma over any LCD, even with this issue.]]>Feb 10th 2010 12:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Well stated. And if my eyes point me toward Samsung or anyone else, I'm there.]]>Feb 10th 2010 2:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
There. All these stories and comments boiled down to one simple statement.

Good job, Panasonic.
]]>Feb 10th 2010 10:59AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/A) used by others in the industry and
B) linked in any way to the conspiracy theory that some tv's tend to take a shit right after the warranty period.

In most electronic systems, we know that an increase in voltage shortens the lifespan of certain components. Just wondering if the increase in voltage contributes to a reduction in lifespan (which happens to occur right around the time the warranty ends based on average viewing times).]]>Feb 10th 2010 11:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
The most annoying thing about this is one of the USP's of this set is the blacks/MLL's. Given that the Kuro is not being produced. Secondly, if you compare the MLL (Min Luminance levels) of a 12g panel with earlier panels, the 12g panels should not be the same, or worse than earlier gen panny's.

Infinite black pro my ar$e
What does that do now - shut off the panel if there is 1 pixel (as opposed to 0) ?


]]>Feb 10th 2010 11:25AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 11:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 11:44AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
I chose the Samsung PN50B650 for my tv this past year, and have no regrets. Amazing SD quality (a Samsung trait it seems, and I swear it's better than my old 32" WEGA was) and it took me a while to get used to images that looked lifelike as if the skintone was going to pop off screen. DLNA, 24P support, Amazon VOD, Blockbuster VOD, USB.. I mean really? The TV is amazing even for what I paid (I bought on launch).

Decided against the Panasonic G10 for a lot of reasons.. namely a higher price, no 24P. Now, I'm even happier I made the call to go with it.

I use Panasonic products, they're pretty good (I use a Panasonic Lumix TZ4 IIRC the model). But never would buy all 1 brand of anything.

Each company has hits and misses, and Samsung is underrated with their plasmas (though I was told the PN50B650 consumer reports #1 HDTV if that means anything).]]>Feb 10th 2010 11:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 11:58AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/The G10s do have 24p - they just don't say so on Panny's online spec page.]]>Feb 10th 2010 6:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
I can't help but feel remiss to add to this trashing of Panasonic because my Plasma, in this 'state', still kills my brand-new LCD.

@unverified person above "So the lesson here is, don't buy a Panasonic plasma TV." Hardly. The virtues of a Panasonic product are still many and in most people's lighting conditions this may not be an issue at all. I only notice the problem during dark scenes in my theater-dark room.]]>Feb 10th 2010 11:51AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
"I only notice the problem during dark scenes in my theater-dark room."

This is why most people were buying this particular set. Sure, some people who don't care about anything may have randomly wandered into buying this set, but more than likely the majority of owners are videophiles and bought this for the blacker than black, blacks.

This isn't going to end well for Panasonic.]]>Feb 10th 2010 5:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 12:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 12:23PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 1:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 1:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
I have a 50" 9G Kuro and the first thing I've noticed was HOW BRIGHT it is for a plasma...very very much like an LCD...and my electricty bills didn't increase since my 42" PHILIPS at all so you should review your picture settings or your ambient, remember that plasmas are meant for dark rooms...it's the BEST TV ever made so far]]>Feb 10th 2010 4:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/All I want them to do is refund me for the money I payed to have this thing calibrated because they just blew it away.]]>Feb 11th 2010 1:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/
Good luck with that when the inevitable class action suit starts.]]>Feb 10th 2010 2:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/panasonics-response-on-shifting-black-levels-in-plasma-hdtvs/Feb 10th 2010 2:16PM