http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 8:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
Really? I had no idea the history. I just thought it was an online payment system. Thanks for the history.]]>Feb 12th 2010 9:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 8:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 8:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 8:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/I bet in a few years, we won't even need to carry around wallets. ]]>Feb 11th 2010 8:50PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 11:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/I seriously doubt it - RFID is too vulnerable to sniffing/duplicating to be of any real use as a payment method. I know some companies are using it as such already but it's certainly not at the stage where Apple would consider adopting it.]]>Feb 12th 2010 6:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 8:50PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
The fact that you can't see a use for a product, does not invalidate its existence.

I happen to think it's an excellent tool for small business, I think a lot of other people are going to agree.

No need to get hostile!]]>Feb 11th 2010 11:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/ laptop/ traditional point-of-sale for small businesses.]]>Feb 12th 2010 1:55AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 8:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 11:01PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
I bet I could whip one up in about 30 minutes.]]>Feb 12th 2010 5:00AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/And about 3 weeks later Square will be notifying you that there is a lawsuit for copying their app and submitting it to the heavily guarded apple app store. Or if that happens, somewhere along the line, no doubt it will get rejected by the apple reviewers quite quickly. ]]>Feb 12th 2010 7:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 9:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 9:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/It wouldn't work in the UK yet due to our Chip&Pin cards, we don't sign.]]>Feb 12th 2010 7:50AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 9:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 10:01PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Doh forgot to say what I had to say before hitting the submit button. I totally agree with you here. Unless they find some way to make these a secure transaction like with paypal, identity theft will surely rise to an untold number. No Thanks. ]]>Feb 11th 2010 10:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
WAY ONE
1) Scammer steals your card and charges it
2) You realize the card is missing and report it stolen
3) If the charge has gone through, the charge is reversed and you get your money back
4) Law enforcement calls Square and gets the (moron) thiefs Square ID
5) Law enforcement shows up on said thief's doorstep
6) Thief tries to run and gets the smackdown

WAY TWO
1) Scammer steals your card
2) Scammer swipes your card and charges it
3) Scammer puts the card back in your wallet ( without you seeing?)
3) You get your card bill and see an unauthorized transaction
4) You dispute the charge and get your money back
5) Law enforcement calls Square and gets the (moron) thiefs Square ID
6) Law enforcement shows up on said thief's doorstep
7) Thief tries to run and gets the smackdown

SO... How does the scammer win in either case?]]>Feb 11th 2010 11:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 11:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/I was creating a 'what if' scenario more or less. Probably didn't come off that way. ]]>Feb 12th 2010 12:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/For a scammer, where theres a will theres a way. All im saying is that you cannt try to tell me that this is more secure than handing a hot dog man a few dollars. However, it would be a great tool for small buisness. There is just not enough info available about this product for any of us to jump to conclusions, it is possible that the info is stored on the device itself in the event there is no internet connection, and i dont beleive that they soecifically said it was transfered securly ( im sure it is) there is just too much gray area.]]>Feb 12th 2010 12:56AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 9:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 9:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
most people dont notice a $5-$10 charge on there CC statement]]>Feb 11th 2010 9:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
Total elapsed turn around time: 30 seconds.

Is there any way we can opt out of this? I.e. tell our credit card companies not to allow any charges through square?]]>Feb 11th 2010 9:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 11:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
Total elapsed turn around time: a few days, depending on how fast your CC company is.

You seriously wish to opt out? What's the point? Someone in line at the grocery store could steal your wallet and pay for their groceries just as easy.]]>Feb 11th 2010 11:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
Yes, I seriously want to opt out. At least until I can see how this whole thing plays out and what the security implications turn out to be.

A thief stealing my card and buying groceries is a bit different than a thief transferring huge amounts of cash from my debit account into his/her account. (and by huge I mean "pathetic little puddles but it's all I've got")

Right now the unauthorized use of credit cards is already a big problem, and that is with a much higher barrier to entry. If someone gets my CC # they usually also have to have my name, my billing address, the expiration date, and sometimes the little three digit code on the back of the card. And that is if they want to use the card on the internet to buy physical goods which they then have to turn around and sell (or simply enjoy - maybe they buy 2000 lbs of bacon or something). If they use it in person, they may also have to show ID (though that is fairly rare). Because of these limitations, stolen credit cards are usually used to buy goods (and in my case, the three times I have had my wallet stolen, the thief tried to use the cards to buy gas, a pre-paid phone, and some Swedish porn in Sweden ]]>Feb 12th 2010 1:38AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Stupid comment system cut me off...

I suspect that the reason for this is that the thieves did not have direct access to a credit card machine. With this system, that barrier is dropped. Anyone with this software and an account can simply transfer any amount of money from me to them. No ID required. No expiration date, three digit pin, billing address, etc. Just type in the CC number and fake a signature and then my cash is their cash... and I won't even know till I get my next bill. Factor in the fact that I am a bit of a space cadet and don't always watch my bills very closely and I could be out some serious money before even realizing it.

The only barrier to this event seems to be:

1) My (or my CC company's) constant vigilance in case somebody somewhere in the world one day gets my number and steals my money directly.

2) The hope that because the scammer has an account, that they are traceable and therefore not as likely to engage in fraud.


Overall I think it is a really neat idea, but the execution seems incredibly flawed (at least from a quick viewing of their video) and their website does not address this issue at all. There needs to be an additional level of security for this kind of activity (maybe a pin that has to be typed in by the user - but even there... am I going to want to type a pin into someone else's iPhone not knowing whether the app is a real app, or just one made to look like the Square app?)

So, again, yes. I want to opt out.]]>Feb 12th 2010 1:45AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/"swipe evenly and smoothly while keeping pressure on the head"]]>Feb 11th 2010 9:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
Just today it was announced that the "chip+pin" system is fundamentally flawed and people managed to authenticate cloned cards with the system.

A few months ago in my city (Perth, Australia) almost every mcdonalds in the cbd had their eftpos machines swiped and replaced with hacked versions that skimmed the cards AND the pins. About $5million was stolen in a few days.

They whole creditcard system is insecure and based on trust. If you can't trust the person you are swiping your card with then don't use credit - simple.]]>Feb 11th 2010 10:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
Answer: Absolutely Not!]]>Feb 11th 2010 11:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 11th 2010 11:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
I'm very happy for both you and your (soon to be slimmer) wallet.]]>Feb 11th 2010 11:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/@bstump
when the use of RFID comes into play it isnt always worth having a slimmer wallet, RFID tags can be read by and RFID reader just like ones at stores you can get them online and a scammer could place one in his backpack, walk around a populated area and scan peoples rfid tags in their credit cards, or possibly iphones (as you mentioned) inturn getting their credit card numbers]]>Feb 12th 2010 1:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/as a matter of fact here is an Engadget article on how easily and RFID tag can be hacked
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/19/rfid-credit-cards-easily-hacked-with-8-reader/]]>Feb 12th 2010 1:08AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/too bad thats not what this device is even about
i cant believe darren even said that.
this device is for accepting payments from other people, not for paying people.]]>Feb 12th 2010 9:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
I suspect that the reason for this is that the thieves did not have direct access to a credit card machine. With this system, that barrier is dropped. Anyone with this software and an account can simply transfer any amount of money from me to them. No ID required. No expiration date, three digit pin, billing address, etc. Just type in the CC number and fake a signature and then my cash is their cash... and I won't even know till I get my next bill. Factor in the fact that I am a bit of a space cadet and don't always watch my bills very closely and I could be out some serious money before even realizing it.

The only barrier to this event seems to be:

1) My (or my CC company's) constant vigilance in case somebody somewhere in the world one day gets my number and steals my money directly.

2) The hope that because the scammer has an account, that they are traceable and therefore not as likely to engage in fraud.


Overall I think it is a really neat idea, but the execution seems incredibly flawed (at least from a quick viewing of their video) and their website does not address this issue at all. There needs to be an additional level of security for this kind of activity (maybe a pin that has to be typed in by the user - but even there... am I going to want to type a pin into someone else's iPhone not knowing whether the app is a real app, or just one made to look like the Square app?)

So, again, yes. I want to opt out.]]>Feb 12th 2010 1:44AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
D'Oh! I'm a commenting idiot. Any way to edit posts?]]>Feb 12th 2010 1:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
The other thing is the rest of the world use chip and pin, magstripe is dead.

]]>Feb 12th 2010 2:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 12th 2010 4:08AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/
lol "background task"?

u realize its an IPHONE right?

that was funny lol]]>Feb 12th 2010 9:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 12th 2010 8:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 12th 2010 8:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 12th 2010 9:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/square-opens-public-trial-for-iphone-payment-system/Feb 12th 2010 11:08AM