http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/ Engadget Comments for Scientists discover method for rapid charging Li-ion batteries http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 3:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/
50-100 times improvement? That would give us electric car batteries that could go 5,000 - 10,000 miles to a charge! Remember, the current crop of affordable EVs go 100 miles to the charge. Let's say a typical gas sedan gets 500 miles to the tank. You'd need only a 5x improvement to existing battery packs, and Nissan's generation 2 pack (complete and awaiting the launch of the gen 1 Leaf before they can begin production) will already do 200 miles to a charge for the same price as the gen 1 packs. That's a 2x improvement in the span of a few years, albeit mainly due to economies of scale bringing down the production cost.

I'm not including the Tesla's 250 mile battery pack because it powers a $90,000 car which of course would be meaningless to the average consumer. But the Leaf, Think City, Reva NXR, Coda sedan, and similar models from Miles, Fisker, BYD and the rest get a standard 100 miles to the charge, and 200 miles looks to be the standard in the next round, provided the first batch sells the way they all hope it will. That's 2/5ths the range of a gasoline auto, not 50-100 times less, and the price is coming down rapidly under the brute force pressure of automakers eager to ride the electric car bandwagon and resuscitate their stagnant industry in the process.

An electric car with a 500 mile range will be enough to convince all but the most stubborn gas-guzzlers to make the switch. 100 miles to the charge at the same price as a Prius is enough to convince most buyers who had any interest in efficient, clean motoring in the first place. In the interium, swappable battery packs and rapid charging will make the comparatively low energy density of batteries a practical non-issue for EV owners. ]]>Mar 13th 2010 4:22AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/
Nah, we just need to combine battery recharge facilities with Petco stores. Get some of those lazy hamsters to work for us for a change.]]>Mar 13th 2010 5:09AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/
1. The leaf is really small. How long would those last powering a pickup.

2. 500 miles + at least 3 hours of charge time. For batteries to really replace gasoline, they need to be able to do a full 14-15 hours of driving. That's 1000 miles. + 100 to be on the safe side. . . . Or charge time have to be reduced to 10 minutes or less which is a 20x increase in the best battery tech we have.]]>Mar 13th 2010 8:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 8:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/
We weren't talking about acceptable; we were talking about the demise of gas power. Refer to original post. And I've never taken a 3 hour break on a road trip unless it was a scenic lookout. ]]>Mar 13th 2010 9:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/
300 mile range with a 1 hour charge time should be the goal in my opinion. That would certainly cover the majority of drivers.]]>Mar 13th 2010 9:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 9:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 9:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/
If you want to match the performance of gasoline in a larger vehicle he's probably not too far off. The extra weight added by the batteries is undesirable and the better battery technology gets the less they have to weigh down the vehicle. ]]>Mar 13th 2010 12:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 12:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/
And honestly, I do agree with the OP - for electric to *completely* kill gas, it needs to be good on road trips. My roommate drives a few hundred miles to tahoe every weekend or so for skiing, and addind 3 hours in the middle of a 4 hour trip is just not okay.

2nd gen electric cars will be good enough for most people, but they'll probably also have to own a gas car in the household.

Also, unrelated, this discussion reminds me, I did some calculations and found that I could build an iron man style flying suit with electric ducted fans, if batteries were about 10-50x more dense. Though even then you could maybe only fly for an hour, not as long as he does!
-Taylor]]>Mar 13th 2010 1:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/How about we not eliminate the gas engine. Keep it around for range extending for people who HAVE to have a vehicle that goes 500 miles with quick refueling in between (although in practical driving, I really don't think this is a requirement; you have to sleep sometime right? That's a couple of hours of charging right there). It is not safe to travel more than 500 miles alone anyways without rest (1000 miles with another driver).

But if things go well for EVs it might eliminate the gas station. People still have the station based mindset for fueling, but people might adapt and like being able to charge at home or work, and rarely having to visit a station. Then the rare (for most people) occasion of roadtrips probably is an acceptable trade off.

@Taylor Yes Taylor
Charging time is proportional to miles. So if a 500 mile pack can charge in 3 hours. The charging time for a 4 hour trip will be roughly 1.5 hours. Plus you friend can have it fully charged leaving his home. Thus he only needs to top off when he gets to Lake Tahoe (where the car will likely be parked anyways).]]>Mar 13th 2010 2:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Obviously you aren't from Canada.]]>Mar 13th 2010 3:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 3:56PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 6:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/No problems. Swap out the drained battery for a charged one. That'll be faster than pumping gas, but will probably require some sort of standardized batteries. Or you can charge it every night from the grid in your garage? Hopefully it won't add more the electricity bill than gasoline does.]]>Mar 14th 2010 9:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 3:27AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 8:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 3:27AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 8:28AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 3:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 3:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 9:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Dude, apple is patented by Newton. Didn't he discover the apple when it struck him on the head? Wait... it was something else...]]>Mar 14th 2010 9:53AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 3:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 12:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/W00t... I have to say, I had more than a little bit of trouble understanding that this was the school I go to...]]>Mar 14th 2010 12:53AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/
IDK. I thought it was funny.]]>Mar 13th 2010 4:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 4:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/
An a short life span. . .]]>Mar 13th 2010 8:33AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 8:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 4:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 5:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/
Yet Oil companies kept killling electric cars since 1840.



]]>Mar 13th 2010 6:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/
Dude, wake up! No one wanted the electric car when it only went 100 miles, took 8 hours to recharge, and had a 10000 battery that had to be replace every 2 years. The tech wasn't there. ]]>Mar 13th 2010 8:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/
err?]]>Mar 13th 2010 4:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 4:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/
I find your cynicism... refreshing.]]>Mar 13th 2010 4:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 5:14AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 8:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/
One is battery life. You can charge most Li-Ion batteries quickly, but its at the expense of cycle life. The faster your charge or discharge a Li-Ion cell, the less cycles they'll last.

Second is safety. To recharge a 400-mile battery (120kWh for a mid-sized car) in the same amount of time you fill up your gas tank now would need 1.5MW of electricity. Thats a lot, the conductor needed to transfer 1.5MW of DC energy into your car is about 12" in diameter (very rough estimate). Plus all the necessary equipment to make it safe (short circuit protection, etc). ]]>Mar 13th 2010 11:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 5:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 6:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 13th 2010 8:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/THAT will be freakin' awesome... you'll essentially be powering your computer with pet food.]]>Mar 14th 2010 9:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/aah well :)]]>Mar 14th 2010 10:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/13/scientists-discover-method-for-rapid-charging-li-ion-batteries/Mar 15th 2010 10:47AM