http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/ Engadget Comments for Editorial: Engadget on Microsoft Kin http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 13th 2010 7:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 13th 2010 7:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/I think your name says why you can't have an open mind to it.]]>Apr 13th 2010 7:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 13th 2010 7:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Even if they gave this away on pre-paid, a classic case of 'too little to late.

It will be painful/embarrassing to watch another one of Microsoft's astro-turfing/viral campaigns to push this to the kids.

In 12 months time they will 'roll the features' into WP7

Imagine the money burnt on this project, it would make Palm look thrifty!
]]>Apr 13th 2010 7:30PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 13th 2010 7:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
One, it is NOT a smart phone as referred to many times in the article.

This phone is for teenagers, plain and simple. I have a 14 yr old daughter and I bet she would love this thing. She couldn't care less about a damn calendar. Did you when you were in high school?

]]>Apr 13th 2010 7:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 13th 2010 7:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 13th 2010 8:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
I love how people are trying to justify this disaster of a product.

Sorry but there's no child on the planet that would buy this phone. Unless MS is gonna be handing them out for free why the heck would ANYONE buy this shit?

When there are pres, pixis, backflips, moments, exclaims, lg envys, iPhones, hell even all those shitty android phones.

WHY?]]>Apr 13th 2010 8:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 13th 2010 8:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/I'm sure you do, but as a parent I am not getting my 14 yr old a $200 phone. ]]>Apr 13th 2010 8:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/With Verizon, these phones will require at $10/month data plan along with cell service. Now compare this to the $30/month data plan for smartphones. That is a savings of $480 over the lifetime of the contract.
Additionally, if you look at the people who use messaging/multimedia phones, i.e. the majority of the population, you will notice that these people DON'T USE CALENDARS OR APPS!! How can these be such a failure due to there lack of apps and, useless for the market segment, calendars when that is how all the phones in the market are....not to mention that if they did have these, then they would thus be classified as "smartphones" thereby negating the money saved and the luxury of being in the largest phone market segment in the world!
Think about the normal population and not the nerdy/geek population who wants nothing less than a smartphone and you will see what i am talking about!]]>Apr 13th 2010 8:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
I don't know which strategy will win, but personally I like it more when progress is done by adding features, not removing them...]]>Apr 13th 2010 8:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
You are right on. I sent out the UI videos to friends and family and asked for their input. All of them use dumbphones (with the exception of a few BB users) now. All of them are social networking freaks. They are single and a mixture of recently married with small kids. Without exception ALL of them were intrigued by the possibilities. They want an easy way to text, take pictures/videos, and upload. Say what you want about the iPhone, Pre, BB, etc - NONE of them can do these simple tasks as well as the Kin.

The Kin isn't for me but I think people are placing way too much emphasis on features and apps. Reality will kick in when two friends snap a photo of the same thing. One on a Kin and one on an iPhone. The Kin will have their picture floating on the major social networks in seconds while the iPhone user hunts and pecks through their apps. If you are the kind of person that does that kind of thing, your iPhone will stop looking so hot.

I think it's pretty simple - if your primary purpose is texting/emailing/pictures/videos and social networks there isn't a device that can hold a candle to this. If you are into other activities then yes, the Kin is not for you. MS needs to price it right ($99 or less) and Verizon needs to throttle their data charges (+$10/month).]]>Apr 13th 2010 8:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
I would never buy this, but I hardly see this as a "disaster of a product." Sure, it's only good for a couple of things, but so was the original iPhone, a phone that I loved. While I do believe it's a mistake to be targeting such a narrow market, IF this product can reach a few teenie boppers, this phone could do fairly well, which is probably all that MSFT is hoping for.

But I will say this; these phones have no shot if they continue to put twenty somethings in their ads.

Show some 12 year olds at a Justin Bieber or Myley (sp?) Cyrus concert, tweeting about what a great time their having, and I think they'll reach their target demographic much more effectively.]]>Apr 13th 2010 8:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Heres the thing I don't think most people are seeing. Verizon already has millions of customers who own phones like the enV touch paying $30 a month for unlimited data. I know a ton of people, from 13 year olds to soccer moms who own that phone and pay for that just because they check out enough ringtones to go over the 25 MB limit on the $10 option. And I'm be willing to put money down that if you showed them an enV and a Kin 70% would take the Kin. Kin isn't meant to compete against the phones your talking about, because it can't. But if Microsoft is able to get its hooks into people, get them using Zune, before you know if you have a great feeder market for WP7. ]]>Apr 13th 2010 8:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Microsoft may not have been 3 years late.
But this is not a geek phone. [As long as it makes calls], I know a whole lot of people that just don't care about us geek's, geekerical stuff. But, with the 'upload generation', as Microsoft has labeled [can't stand], are all aspiring, or have, an iPhone. This is a cross road, and it's hard to see who really wants this phone.
Either way, Microsoft ad campaign scares me. It's WORSE, than Palm's creepy ads. Microsoft: Teens, and your upload generation don't run around stealing pizza [as disturbingly noted in the 'Studio' ad]. And encouraging people to break up and burn anything reminding them of the person they broke up with, and SAVORING the moment on your phone, is labeled evil. And that sort of thing is a sad moment, not a "doin' da supavillain laugh" moment. I can see a lot of parents that just don't want to give their kids a phone with an ad campaign that encourages stealing and breaking up. Sorry Microsoft. Hire ad companies like Apple's. Even if you hate Apple, their ads are magical. I watched the Macbook Pro BATTERY video, and I freaking wanted a unibody MBP. ]]>Apr 13th 2010 8:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
"I think the idea for the Kin is a good one and that most of those who aren't getting it aren't /supposed/ to get it. This is a phone largely intended for teens, and few outside of that demographic are really going to see any appeal here." - I think this comment is exactly the misunderstanding you are going to have if you are outside this demographic, it's a sexy device, but it wont wow anyone. So, you might be able to get the cast-offs and the cant-bes, the question is how large a segment is that actually. And if that is a large segment, is that why you felt you could omit games, one of the things children enjoy and have more time for than adults? Come'on, even though every teen doesn't like games, this will be a deal breaker for sooo many, you should've at least come up with an advanced hardware version that could've done something, maybe be app compatible with the zune but only buy games or something dumb. Perhaps more cleaver than I think in that maybe they can make this appeal but then when in the store convince their parents to get the one that plays their xbox live, I dunno.]]>Apr 13th 2010 8:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 13th 2010 8:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
If the carrier requires a 30 or heck even a 20 dollar data plan these will fail miserably. The data plan is what keeps people from using the iPhone's, HD2's, Nexus One's and Pre's of the world. Not the phone price. They're practically free now.

I have a feeling these will fail. ]]>Apr 13th 2010 8:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/it's not a smartphone, but verizon is requiring a data plan on all its featurephones. in that sense, it's almost better compared to a smartphone (because you can get those for 100 bucks, which is where everyone is thinking these will be launched at). reread darren's two cents...]]>Apr 13th 2010 9:05PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
Hey Intern Sam.. If your 19 you shouldn't be drinking champagne or anything else.. Weed is cool but cristal and clicqout are no nos...]]>Apr 13th 2010 9:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/If on T-Mobile get a blackberry for $30.

If a smartphone costs $200, that means it's a super-phone, and those are for nerds and CEO's]]>Apr 13th 2010 9:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/For being a dumb-phone this is pretty damn smart if you ask me.]]>Apr 13th 2010 9:30PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
Also I don't believe all that many teens have Iphones. I general most people I know dont't have Iphones and I'm 31. Most people I know have dumb phones. For those people like my who don't care about app this great.

Secondly, I help out at a community center and none of those kids have iphones. Only a couple have had ipod touches (both those kids broke them and wont be get another) and they didn't have that many apps. Another couple kids have actual Apple branded ipods. Every else something IDen, generic, or dumb(phone).

This is a great device if the upfront and monthly cost are low enough. My only thing is the hardware could look a little better.

Finally I really wish the Kin loop/studio stuff would integrated into WP7 because i like it. It would also help the path from the Kin to WP7 be clearer.]]>Apr 13th 2010 9:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
I just don't understand how so many companies don't see it. Apple sees it (or at least use too, pre iPad), Toshiba sees it (in the toughbook category at least), Sony sees it, and even HTC sees it.

If you make a good product you won't have to concentrate to a "niche" market. The tweens (what an awful term)/business men/fathers/ will come if you just do what they want *correctly* and *well*. It just seems stupid to me to create a product that specifically caters to an exact and extremely specific demographic. If you fail in that demographic you fail completely. It would just seem better, If I were microsoft, to throw the KIN team onto creating an amazing user experience and fantastic integration with social media on WinPhone7. They do that and the draw for "tweens" is already there. If they want something inexpensive for the "tween" (still hate that term) pocket, partner up with a handset manufacturer and slap slightly dumbed down WinPhone7 Social Media Edition (or just regular WinPhone7 with pre-installed social media apps) on a cheap phone.

This fragmentation of a risky product aimed at such a niche segment (a segment which Microsoft is clearly out of touch with, and if you ask me is not exactly the cool brand among their target) just doesn't make good business since at all.

Apple did it perfectly with the iPhone (at least once they got exchange support). They made a device which could appeal to all segments of their market at once. If you are a "tween" you have arguably the best Facebook/twitter/social media mobile apps out there (not to mention the all important iTunes/iPod integration). If you want calendars and email, great. They are there and easy to use. If you are a road warrior/business man you have an easy to set up and use email/calendar/roledex swiss army knife of business POWAH. Not to mention thousands of business specific apps. If you want the social media side, great. It's there too. My point is the iPhone can essentially (for the normal day to day consumer here) do everything, but is easily made to do what you need. If you can accomplish something like that you have cornered every niche market out there, without specifically targeting them with fake ads or even specific products.

Long story short: KIN doesn't make sense any way you look at it.]]>Apr 13th 2010 9:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/wait until an embarrasing photo or drunken photo gets taken and watch them peck around for 20 mins trying to get photos removed from all social networking sites, then see which type of phone seems more appealing!!!]]>Apr 13th 2010 10:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 13th 2010 10:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
obviously cost is going to be the deciding factor as to whether this makes sense or not. If they can get the upfront and plan cost down to a point significantly below say an iPhone I think it can do well otherwise I can agree, what's the point. Still though, teens love that facebook shit, this seems to do that better than any phone out there, smart or not. ]]>Apr 13th 2010 11:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
Yeah sure but if progress is adding features in the end you will have so many features the spec sheet would be a book. Each feature also adds complexity, fragments dev funds, increases the chance of code errors and makes for more help desk.

What IT lovers seems to fail in recognising is that the sign of success for a tool is that it doesn't really change, it just is what it is.

Companies that make hammers and drills aren't going broke because next years hammer still works the same and offers the same features as this years hammer. This isn't even an analogy, its simply tools.

I'm sure some century or two ago the hammer was in flux as a design but that's long finished. Thing is, you buy a tool and use it, then it maybe breaks, wears out, you lose it or need more than one maybe because of a new employee.

That the IT industry is still based on adding features just indicates that it's a kiddy as a tool for humans, it's not actually right yet, still in beta.

Can you seriously imagine any actual tool we use as a society radically changing how you interface with it every two years. It's freaking stupid.

XP vs Win7. Do you actually do anything new (not different) with Win7 (not your better graphics card unrelated to Win7), unlikely. The only thing you had to do was relearn where everything was. This is not progress, it's a waste of time.

Time for IT to grow the hell up so we can get on working with stable tools as opposed to spending most of our time re-figuring out how to work it.

To relate back into the article, the Kin, well it's simple, does its various jobs and that's it. I wouldn't have one but I reckon it's a good thing. To really get everyone fired up, I actually look forward to desktop OS's becoming more like iPhone and Kin it is actually the way forward and it's not a dumbing down, it's a freeing up of our time to get on with using the tools.

Shuffling 20 application windows around on a desktop because I am multitasking is slow and just bloody stupid. The amount of time wasted just moving the colour of pixels around so you can see other coloured pixels is primitive.

Whew, that rant feels finished enough for the time being.]]>Apr 13th 2010 11:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 14th 2010 12:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 14th 2010 12:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/I get it there is a market that can not afford data plans and may not want apps and a robust OS like Android, iPhone, or Phone 7 but these just seem a little too slim with no option for an IM client, do they have a wifi receiver? If they do and they had a universal IM client I could see it then. It would much easier to sit on the couch or lay in bed and IM via the phone than a computer. I think they missed a critical piece of the social puzzle for teens, then again I live in a place where you cannot get an unlimited texting plan for any price no matter how high, so maybe an IM client is not so important but it is easier than text messages! I think it is a feature this supposed market will not think to ask about and regret not having.]]>Apr 14th 2010 1:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
The concept of dumbing down Smartphones is quite a good idea provided that it means the OS and experience is fluid and reliable. The people microsoft are pitching the Kin at will not want to be wrestling endlessly with problems, so provided the OS matches the demographic MS might well be on to a winner here...]]>Apr 14th 2010 5:35AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/

yes, the shitty android phones that have standard features that Mr Jobs hasnt had time to erm, make perfect yet?

go hide behind your imac, whilst the desire owners laugh at you!!!!!]]>Apr 14th 2010 6:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/maybe because people dont want to spend like $400 on a piece of crap iphone?
these should be cheap compared to that, and are exactly what a teenager wants]]>Apr 14th 2010 8:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 14th 2010 9:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 14th 2010 9:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
you had to "relearn everything" for windows 7? Do you have some kind of mental disability?]]>Apr 14th 2010 10:01AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 14th 2010 10:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
But seriously, out of all the editor POVs in this article, Joanna's hits the nail on the head. The rest were too focused on the iPhone, which Kin isn't about at all. My nieces and nephews (15-20yr old) ALL have Blackberrys. Only one nephew has a passing interest in the iPhone (but he prefers his BB and DSi). It's all about the keyboard and BBM.

RIM's market share has been growing while iPhone's has stagnated, probably in large part due to the number of teen-early 20's people who want precisely these types of features, especially if the camera/video and cloud storage features work as advertised.

If MS markets this right, it's going to be a hit with that crowd.]]>Apr 14th 2010 1:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
Furthermore, at least in Germany kids load up their dumbphones with ringtones, stupid Java games/apps etc. Not having apps at all...

(And my "unlimited" data plan is 8,50 € a month, including VoIP.)]]>Apr 15th 2010 9:38AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 13th 2010 7:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 13th 2010 7:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 13th 2010 7:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 13th 2010 7:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 13th 2010 8:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/Apr 14th 2010 11:08AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/editorial-engadget-on-microsoft-kin/
Okay, so basically the Kin is a POS that I don't want. Got it.]]>Apr 17th 2010 11:39AM