http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 4:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
Its also funny because chrome will have flash as its main focus (http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20001429-264.html) , while IE9 will have open standards like HTML5 be the main focus.]]>Apr 30th 2010 4:13AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 4:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 4:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
What I don't like is that all this glosses over the fact that HTML5 does not replace all the features in Flash. Even video streaming, webcam support, DRM, etc... isn't supported in HTML5.

What I think is really stupid about this statement is that this Microsoft group is damaging the Silverlight group. Do you think he remembered that MS is developing a plug-in technology that does have the true potential to displace Flash?

Again, HTML5 is great, but it doesn't equal Flash. It is nice to see some of the features Flash has given us over the years directly in the markup language, but please understand that it isn't a 1 to 1 comparison in capabilities. ]]>Apr 30th 2010 4:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 4:44AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
I agree. Yes it is great to have video and audio supported directly by HTML5 but this will not replace all the interactive stuff that flash can do. Also I am amazed that IE9 will only use h.264 when the video codec has not been decided on yet and google have just boosted the chances of Ogg being the standard by pouring money into the codec development. What is it with Microsoft and their insane browser development decisions?]]>Apr 30th 2010 4:45AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
Without a doubt. Poor Adobe, Apple got them in a headlock, and now Microsoft is coming in for the kill. Bye bye Adobe Flash.]]>Apr 30th 2010 4:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
These are after all essentially competing SOFTWARE companies (yes, Apple makes hardware, but I think everyone can agree that great hardware for the price isn't exactly a Apple selling-point).]]>Apr 30th 2010 4:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 4:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
Most of the comments miss the boat completely. Let me speak from an insider perspective. Microsoft has been trying to marginalize the browser since 2001 (such as ignoring the W3C) . Flash meant cross platform ubiquity (think Linux, Google OS, Mac OS) within the browser. By limiting the browser and thereby forcing users to native applications, Microsoft can leverage it's OS dominance and software development tools. Silverlight was a hedged response to Flash and Apex. They will happily embrace HTML5 at Silverlight expense if it means reducing and disrupting overall browser applications. It is no coincidence that Google has modulated their position on Flash, since an abandonment of Flash would entail a rise again in platform specific native apps - which they have no hegemony. Microsoft and Apple want the converse approach, since they do control the OS and can benefit with tighter integration to the platform.]]>Apr 30th 2010 5:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Especially if Adobe pulls CS5 from Windows like people are saying they should do for OSX. Ha.

On an unrelated note...Linus Torvalds has spoken ill of Flash.]]>Apr 30th 2010 5:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
Well, I have to say I like where this is going :)]]>Apr 30th 2010 5:28AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Yup]]>Apr 30th 2010 5:29AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
Reliability and security? Which browser are you talking about? It can't be IE.]]>Apr 30th 2010 5:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 6:04AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 6:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/]]>Apr 30th 2010 6:43AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/"Its also funny because chrome will have flash as its main focus, while IE9 will have open standards like HTML5 be the main focus."

That's because Chrome already supports HTML5.
A lot of web apps still use Flash, and there's no technology existing on the market today (apart from Silverlight) that could realistically replace it.
Google is also developing Native Client.]]>Apr 30th 2010 6:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Link or didn't happen. Please. :)]]>Apr 30th 2010 7:04AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
Who the fack uses IE?

oh yea NUBS... (:o]]>Apr 30th 2010 7:19AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 7:56AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
Lets put things in context, this is the guy from IE talking, IE isn't known for being exactly cutting edge or the best at anything, so what does he know??]]>Apr 30th 2010 7:58AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/This is exactly the problem. HTML5 is great and an open standard but it is incomplete. The danger will come with proprietary extensions and "improvements" to the standard. Once that happens it is no longer standard.

HTML5 needs a coherent strategy for migration to a complete product.]]>Apr 30th 2010 8:00AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
Way I see it is we are not too far from seeing Apple blocking Flash on their desktop Safari as well. Given Steve's statements, it's not a question of IF, it's a question of WHEN.]]>Apr 30th 2010 8:10AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 8:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
I got your point.However, Can you show me evidence that Flash has virus? Where did you get the idea HTML5 has low CPU usage ?]]>Apr 30th 2010 8:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
60% of the world's computing population that's who. ]]>Apr 30th 2010 8:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 8:51AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
o yeah, good bye adobe flash haha!! I love where this is going.]]>Apr 30th 2010 8:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Guys, remember. This is the same company that is pushing Silverlight down everyone's throat AND still thinks ActiveX is the future.

Enough said.]]>Apr 30th 2010 9:14AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
Unless we have a mobile device.. In which case none of us have flash.. Unless of course we have been invited to use a 'private beta' and have a specific build of android. ]]>Apr 30th 2010 9:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
You said it yourself though: it's a tooling problem. HTML5, CSS, and JS can recreate any piece of content you can with Flash. Right now. In many browsers. The problem is that there isn't a visual, WYSIWYG tool to drag and drop shapes, create animations over timelines, attach actions to objects, etc. It's difficult, because all of the drawing, coding, and styling must be done in code, a far cry from how things are done in Flash. That's giving everyone the impression it can't do it. But it can.

That's not an excuse though. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you will, and no one who builds rich media applications is going to trade the Flash CS5 tool for a text editor anytime soon. Until the *tools* get brought up to par, it won't take off. That's where Adobe can step up. They make the best tools for building this kind of content. I hear there is even rudimentary support for exporting to HTML5 in CS5. When they put more of their focus into that, they can ensure they'll continue to dominate even after Flash loses relevance. ]]>Apr 30th 2010 10:01AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
Why do the Engadget staff keep living in their Apple Juiced World? aRe you guys high or something when you write stuff up? Steve Jobs is not the creator of HTML5 and nore has it been the first to implement it. So why the reference that MS is following his footsteps? Bunch of iD**Ts... There have been many company heading towards HTML5 for a while, such as Google. So why make it as if Apple/Steve are the ones that are implementing it?

Besides HTML 5 is not the savior of the web! The reason plug ins are better is because they innovate faster and implement better technology then the governing body that rules out HTML5... heck most of the features of HTML5 having even been approved or implemented yet cause of how slow they go about it.]]>Apr 30th 2010 10:15AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 10:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
Also... is everyone here high?

This is a blog... it practically uses ASCII art as its graphical interface!

Why do we all spend so much time caring about Flash, Silverlight, Quicktime, HTML5???]]>Apr 30th 2010 10:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
Loving this, first Apple haters lost their vapourware Courier, now even beloved Microsoft is against Flash.

Eat it.]]>Apr 30th 2010 10:27AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 10:51AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 10:51AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
This is a completely untrue statement. Ok, show me how to embed fonts. How about webcam streaming? Oh, any level of DRM? Oh yea, speaking of video, how about some real streaming instead of progressive download solutions? Video with alpha masking? Maybe you can show me how to match all the vector art blending effects? Now, please demonstrate pixel perfect matching from browser to browser using HTML5.

HTML5 picks up a very light set of features that give you the graphic capabilities of about Flash 4 or maybe 5 plus limited video/audio support. There are more features I could list that you cannot duplicate in HTML5.

Further, authoring in HTML requires you to learn multiple markup and scripting languages. At least with Flash you have a developed graphical IDE and a single language.]]>Apr 30th 2010 11:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
Apple competes with Flash because Flash's power zone is building small scale applications that deploy on multiple devices. A Flash-free web has multiple advantages for Apple's bottom line, such as A) Forcing devs to use their toolchain, thereby requiring them to own a Mac in order to build iPhone apps B) Making it more difficult to deploy an app to competing platforms such as Android and WebOS C) Forcing users to go to the app store (and pay) to run apps on their phones, rather than being able to consume apps through the web browser via Flash. There's plenty more, but those are the big ones.]]>Apr 30th 2010 11:35AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
I agree. The uninformed think Flash is just for video delivery and banner ads.]]>Apr 30th 2010 11:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/I don't think I'm following what you're saying here. HTML5 is an open standard that would reduce application lock-in if fully embraced. So how does Microsoft's attack on Flash allow them more OS dominance? Which developers are going to choose between Microsoft's and Apple's proprietary solution when they could just go with HTML5? And where does Google's position contrast with Microsoft's/Apple's, when Youtube began testing a transition to HTML5 months ago? Please lead me to the boat that I'm missing here.
Frankly, I think the reason behind everyone ditching Flash is simply that it's a pain in the ass to everyone involved and is no longer relevant with HTML5 around. ]]>Apr 30th 2010 12:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/
"Flash meant cross platform ubiquity (think Linux, Google OS, Mac OS) within the browser. By limiting the browser and thereby forcing users to native applications, Microsoft can leverage it's OS dominance and software development tools."

You would be right if not for the fact that HTML5 also means cross platform ubiquity. In fact, even more so since you're not reliant on proprietary tech to upgrade something like a Linux version of Flash versus simple HTML5 support in a browser.

"They will happily embrace HTML5 at Silverlight expense if it means reducing and disrupting overall browser applications. "

This makes no sense. If control is what you're saying they're after, why would they go with an open standard they have no control over versus their own homegrown solution?

"...an abandonment of Flash would entail a rise again in platform specific native apps"

HTML5 supposedly can do whatever Flash can do with transitions, video, etc so why would native apps rise? Theoretically, the typical Flash app would then be written in HTML5.

It almost sounds like you don't even know what HTML5 is. ]]>Apr 30th 2010 12:56PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 12:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 2:07PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Apr 30th 2010 2:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/Well, first HTML5 does not include support for other non-video actions currently supported in Flash (i.e. web cams). HTML5 is great for consuming content, but would have trouble keeping up with native app development without plug-in technology (think touch interfaces, games, advanced content creation--Photoshop). I think it is Microsoft's and Apple's goal to push native app development versus browser plug-in development, since that attacks cross-platform app ubiquity. Apple has hegemony in smart phones and Microsoft in desktop's. They are finally going to leverage OS dominance to couple their services to the OS. That can only happen if the browser is reduced--which is what Apple has successfully done in the iPhone. That is why Google is cozying back up to Adobe, since they could easily be cut out of ad revenue if the browser is diminished.]]>Apr 30th 2010 3:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/At best, HTML5 will be a subset of features found in native apps. This is demonstrated in iPhone. A model Microsoft is looking to copy. Adobe's strategy was to act as a layer above native application development and thereby provide multi-platform support. For example, if you used Adobe's tools, you could code a single game that would compile and behave the same on an iphone, ipad, or a browser window (think Farmville). That is an attack on Apple's greatest strength currently - app ecosystem. If the same game or application could be run regardless of platform, then the iPhone app lock-in goes away. They had this with their proprietary dock connector and iTunes on the iPod. Once invested, consumers didn't have the wherewithal to leave. Every app purchased on the iPhone enforces the lock-in. Microsoft would like to see this on Windows. HTML5 will not be a substitute for real app development due to the difficulty in advancing the standards. I don't see the standards moving beyond video and some simple animations. ]]>Apr 30th 2010 3:19PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/http://www.edn.com/blog/400000040/post/1430052543.html) The problem has been Adobe's slow reaction to release patches over time. Which if you notice is the common argument that Apple is making, they are slow to get stuff done. HTML5, in conjunction with CSS and Java run natively in the browser without need for plugins. Video is the worst culprit of power usage with Flash, as opposed to HTML5 used in conjunction with H.264 which utilizes a single codec for both small portable devises and desktops, splitting them into profiles that target each group device without loss of quality and low cpu usage (http://diveintohtml5.org/video.html)]]>Apr 30th 2010 3:34PM