http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/ Engadget Comments for Apple, Dell, and HP comment on suicides as Foxconn CEO shows off the pool http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 6:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 6:53AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/Murder you say??? It was the CEO, in the pool, with a candlestick!!!]]>May 26th 2010 7:05AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
*suicide]]>May 26th 2010 7:06AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/Big companies to blame? Give me a break. If we all just refused to buy underpriced, poorly made, products from China, but instead paid top dollar for North American/European made goods, we wouldn't have this problem. BUT, you might say, they don't make these great things in North America at all! Quite right, because we've let this cheap products gravy train run for too long.

And we're all to blame, including myself.]]>May 26th 2010 7:09AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 7:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 7:19AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 7:24AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 7:24AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
I'd say this problem goes beyond harsh treatment and suggest that overpopulation is the biggest cause of this.

When you have a high density of people and they all need jobs then salaries have to go down to accommodate them all and people will sign up because they need the work.

What solutions are there to overpopulation other than mass relocation, suicide, genocide, forced abortion, sterilization? The only humane way is prevention rather than cure but it's too late for that now.]]>May 26th 2010 7:27AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 7:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
I think this is being blown out of proportion. As has been said they have a far lower suicide rate than average (far far lower) which suggests that their workers are looked after better than most in China. Also to suggest that low prices mean low wages is over simplifying things quite a bit. There are many other things to take into account like cost of living (ie to us the wages may be low but then we have a far higher cost of living. So if the Chinese workers earned what we earn then they would be relatively far better off than us) Then there is the fact that their Execs may not be taking home as much as western execs would as a percentage of the profit. It is for instance not uncommon for Western execs to take home 20, 30 or even 40+ times the salary of normal workers but in Japan I think the average is more like 11 (so perhaps China is even lower). Also doing business in china is a lot cheaper so Foxconn probably pay less for land, electric, water, tax etc etc and can therefore make more and still charge less.

The fact that only 2 people are swimming may be to do with the time of day or it could be that to make it look neater they only wanted a couple swimming at the time the cameras were there. Or perhaps the number of people that can swim is very low among the Chinese working class.

I may be wrong and they could be treating their workers badly, but it is wrong to simply assume this from a few suicides and some photos of a pool.]]>May 26th 2010 7:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 8:11AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/Suicide is a very serious thing. I've lost friends and family that way. I'm glad to see that people are finally paying attention to the issue, but demonizing Foxconn or blaming the electronics industry and leaving it at that is insufficient.

There are 16 states in the US that have suicide rates at least as high as that of China as a whole (according to World Health Organization data from 2005). To put this in perspective, there have been 9 suicide related deaths in the past year at Foxconn's factory of 400,000 workers. That gives is it a suicide rate of 2.25 per 100,000. That's an 84% reduction in suicide compared to the nation as a whole.

The population of the state of Montana is only slightly higher than the entire global employee count of Foxconn. In 2005 the suicide rate in Montana was 22 per 100,000. That's nearly 10 times the current suicide rate of Foxconn (counting only the 400,000 at the factory in the article) and 57% higher than China as a whole and I don't remember seeing one report about it. New Jersey had the lowest suicide rate of 6.1 per 100,000, 2.7 times the rate of Foxconn.

I'm not trying to make any judgement or defense of the working conditions at Foxconn. What I am saying is that this problem is real and it's local. There are likely just as many (if not more) people dying this way in your community as there are at this factory.]]>May 26th 2010 8:53AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
It's too soon to condemn Foxcoon but I think there is a serious issues to be investigated here. ]]>May 26th 2010 9:08AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
I should follow up by saying that it is important to care about the Foxconn workers and I'm really glad that people are concerned. My point was that it's not just THEIR problem. WE as Americans, as westerners, as citizens of "first" world countries, as human beings have this problem. Most of us are unable to influence the quality of life or treat mental illness at a factory in China. But, we can do it at home.]]>May 26th 2010 9:08AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/There have been 9 suicides at Foxconn over this past year, which employs 300,000 workers.

Foxconn employs a lot of people, at very good wages, allowing many rural Chinese families to gain a financial foothold. Foxconn has Olympic size pools and free condominiums for their workers to live in! That's a better deal than I get! ]]>May 26th 2010 9:34AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
You don't need to blame yourself. Without your purchase power, my compatriots will mostly be unemployed and unhappy with a suicide rate probably 100 times higher. Thank you so much for saving our lives.

BTW, the per 100,000 rate in the US is above 10.... (male 17.7, female 4.5); 24.4 for Japan and 21.9 for S. Korea, data from wikipedia]]>May 26th 2010 9:39AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 10:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 10:24AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/impossible, period.]]>May 26th 2010 11:30AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
I must agree about that blame part as I type this on my brand new Macbook Pro while listening to music on my iPad.]]>May 26th 2010 11:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 12:01PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/Exactly. I did some number crunching. According to Wikipedia, in 1999 the suicide rate in China was 14 suicides per 100 000 people per year. The Foxconn factory has 800 000 workers. At the -99 rate, the Foxconn factory workers should commit 112 suicides this year. In five months there has been 11 suicides. At the -99 rate, they should have committed 47 suicides in five months. So they are actually committing four times less suicides than the average Chinese people.

So, instead of saying "You are extorting your workers and causing them to commit suicides!" the media should be saying "Well done! You have have a 75% lower suicide rate amongst your workers than the average Chinese have!]]>May 26th 2010 12:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/so your idea of helping these people to get a more decent job is to stop buying their products.
thus getting them out of their jobs

hmm! not about about your rationale here.]]>May 26th 2010 12:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
"...the demand for cheap goods is driving some poor people to commit murder. "

I'd say to curb the murder rate, Obama should ban all cheap goods and limit retail chains to just Saks, Nordstrom, and Needless Markup.]]>May 26th 2010 1:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/Why do people keep throwing out the WHO numbers to try to minimize the damage? Those numbers are not apples to apples since it isn't workplace focused. I looked up workplace suicide in the US:
251 workplace suicides in 2008 (a peak year)
[www.bls.gov]

137 million, nonfarm payroll employment in 2008
[www.bls.gov]

Works out to
0.000183% rate
or 0.0183 out of 100k people

Even assuming 11/800k (their total workforce of the company in China, rather than just at the facility, which is about 300-400k).
0.001375% rate
or 1.375 per 100k

Obviously it is much higher for Foxconn (and the workplace numbers I have do include some work-related suicides that occurred outside the workplace). Some better data would be if there are suicide rates for other factories (hopefully with the same sample size) or of other companies. I would be willing to bet that it isn't as high as Foxconn, esp when you look at other countries. The problem may not be the living conditions but may be copycat or other psychological reasons, but first we have to acknowledge that it is a problem.]]>May 26th 2010 2:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
this is an appalling frame of mind, you know what the level should be? 0%

id like to see how many of their executives have killed themselves, in fact, how many of any countries executives and above have killed themselves, cos im guessing its below 1%, you know why? money, now if they paid their workers a bit more and took some of their bundles of cash to pay for better conditions, then maybe that suicide rate could be 0% in fact i bet it would be, but heck, we all know that they think theres no problem with 'ONLY 11 people killing themselves' so they wont do this...]]>May 26th 2010 2:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 2:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 5:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 6:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 27th 2010 4:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/LOL dont buy products from china?? what are you going to do then? pull products out from ur ass?]]>Jun 1st 2010 7:30AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/LOL dont buy products from china?? where are you gunna get products from then? out of ur as* ??]]>Jun 1st 2010 7:32AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
Do we therefore blame the shareholders? If not blame, should we pressure them to care more about factories like Foxconn?]]>Jun 15th 2010 6:59AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 6:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
Who really cares? It's another country and it's their problem. If they're dumb enough to work for free, then that makes things much better for us. Makes our electronics cheaper to buy. ]]>May 26th 2010 7:12AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 7:17AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 7:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
Probably so. ]]>May 26th 2010 7:35AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 7:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 7:39AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 7:58AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/Actually, Foxconn gives more than competitive wages for the job the workers perform, and UNLIKE most manufacturing jobs in China it gives its employees overtime pay. They also pay for their worker's housing and have built an entire miniature city around the plant for their worker's convenience.]]>May 26th 2010 9:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
I hate it when people don't understand other peoples needs for money...]]>May 26th 2010 10:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 10:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
If it makes you feel better, then go ahead and feel guilty or bad about their plight. Meanwhile, we'll all continue to purchase goods made in China (but designed here) and other places where the labor situation is similar.

See ya in line next month! It's like sponsoring a child overseas..maybe they should include a pic of one of those sweatshop workers with every iphone? It's uplifting to know we're helping those people out by providing those essential jobs. ]]>May 26th 2010 11:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 6:51AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/May 26th 2010 6:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/apple-and-dell-comment-as-foxconn-ceo-shows-off-the-pool/
It would be easy...if the average American would accept the same pay as a third world factory worker takes home...you'd also have to give up and cushy pension you were hoping your employer would contribute to...no healthcare...lower standards in safety. Basically give up on anything the manufacturer would have to pay for to legally operate in the United States. THEN and only then will such manufacturing move back to the western world.]]>May 26th 2010 6:56AM