http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/ Engadget Comments for The fashion industry survives without copyright protection -- can the rest of us? http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 7:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 31st 2010 3:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 7:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 7:11PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 7:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/No because those KIRF's aren't sold at your nearest Walmart.]]>May 26th 2010 8:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
Apple also insisted on trying to patent multi-touch, in spite of other multi-touch products already available ahead of the iPhone launch.]]>May 27th 2010 1:09AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/Even if they were, the KIRF and the actual product have wildly different
- price
- quality
- image (people will know it's a fake and you didn't buy the real thing)
And someone who has the money and desire to buy the real thing won't be tempted by the knockoff. People who can't afford the real thing may buy the knockoff though and then everyone is happy.]]>May 27th 2010 1:11AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
Seriously though, maybe you should..]]>May 26th 2010 7:11PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
http://www.getthebigpicture.net/blog/2010/5/13/hurt-locker-producers-going-after-movie-pirates.html]]>May 26th 2010 7:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 7:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://stopsoftwarepatents.org/]]>May 26th 2010 7:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
Read for free (of course): http://mises.org/books/against.pdf]]>May 26th 2010 7:17PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 7:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 7:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
An IP-free market is one with irredeemable free-riding issues -- if you spend a year writing a book and then someone else could simply sell copies of that book the second you published it without paying you, you would have no incentive to write that book. As far as I can tell, it's impossible to square a libertarian ethic with a market that doesn't respect strong ownership principles. I'm all ears if you have a counterargument, though.]]>May 26th 2010 11:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/I don't see how that's relevant. You have a copyright on the text of the book, not a patent on the general plot.]]>May 27th 2010 1:18AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 27th 2010 1:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
The Libertarian Party is for limitations on IP law, just as they are for limitations on government power, and are no more for complete anarchy than they are complete abolishment of patents, trademarks, and copyrights.

It is hard to argue that the party is not correct that current IP law often acts as government endorsed monopolies. ]]>May 27th 2010 1:22AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
Now, I'm not familiar with the IP positions of the big-L Libertarian Party, so I can't argue them, really. As I said in the post, I agree in general that our system should be reformulated in some ways.]]>May 27th 2010 1:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
http://openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2002/12/11/piracy.html

Piracy is Progressive Taxation, and Other Thoughts on the Evolution of Online Distribution]]>May 27th 2010 7:47AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 7:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/It is to enable a new entity (presumably small) to enter the market with new innovation without fear of big players simply copying the new idea]]>May 26th 2010 7:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
Unfortunately, copyright is abused by those big guys to sue the hell out of anyone who does ANYTHING to "their" intellectual property.

I swear, one day all of our minds will be monitored and I'll be sued for thinking something that "belongs" to somebody else.

The gov. needs to stop doing the RIAA and MPAA's dirty work. I'm sick of the US always being dominated by companies, it gives the public little control over where they actually go - not good for the rest of the world, considering the US of A is the only true "superpower" single country.]]>May 26th 2010 7:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
The government should stay out of business and let the market take care of itself.]]>May 26th 2010 7:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
To make a long description short, while these companies may technically be called "public", they are not necessarily working in the public's opinion. A completely free economy = growth, consolidation, power (extortion, etc.), and then artificially high prices. Not good.]]>May 26th 2010 8:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/Choice is :
1. money and power in the hands of industrialists who are just interested in their business
or
2. money and power in the hands of power lusting bureaucrats]]>May 26th 2010 10:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/I think also tech is diff bc of the massive R&D costs compared to clothing...and other things I suppose]]>May 26th 2010 11:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 27th 2010 6:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 27th 2010 7:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
Uh, no, but nice try.

Those corporations are NOT public - they are owned and controlled by the rich, no matter how much stockholders would like to think they have a say in what goes on there. The poor will NEVER have a say in what goes on in a company, but they CAN vote and they will ALWAYS have control (even if only a little in the US) over the government, that is unless they elect idiots who given all the control to the corporations in some idiotic attempt to give it to the public. Corporations and public are not the same thing. Corporations shouldn't be legal humans, either, but that is another matter entirely.

There are two types of freedom, FYI - economic and civil. I'm all for maximizing civil rights, but economic rights need to be restricted. I'm not saying that EVERY market needs to be de-privatized, but many do. Medicine, for example. It's not a company's job to keep me healthy, or make the drugs that keep me alive - and the "competition" that "results" (it makes no competition...) in this privatization doesn't make any more "innovation" - no matter what you think, sorry.

And ANY restriction of rights is NOT a dictatorship, only COMPLETE restriction of rights is a dictatorship. Get your facts straight, you right-wing idiot.]]>May 27th 2010 7:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/People like Larry Page and Sergey Brin were very much the common public and they didn't steal money or cheat anyone. They used their brilliance to become rich and we all bought their products (through advertising) in a fair deal which we willingly accepted.
Why should their freedom be restricted? If we are free to own a grocery store, a mechanic shop or a small time computer software company and sell whatever we want how ever we want. Why shouldn't brilliant people and rich people be free also?]]>May 28th 2010 12:37AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 7:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
How much software lasts a year though? Year old software = unsellable. ]]>May 26th 2010 8:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 8:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 8:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
at $2 a song/$20 a movie most pirates' collection wouldn't be that far off the 200 grand]]>May 27th 2010 3:16AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 8:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
developing software or doing r&d for hardware takes much more money on the front end then say Urban Outfitters uses designing their fall line up.

There needs to be some form of copyright in software and hardware in the tech industry so developers can break even and at least make some profit in order to continue creating software and doing r&d. ]]>May 26th 2010 8:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 8:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 8:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
the profit margin for fashion industry is much larger than tech industry its not even funny... especially high end fashion. it takes 1 designer and perhaps 2 assistant, 2 coordinators, about a week to 'design' some piece of garment. i would love to see a 5 men team churn out a usable OS in the same amount of time, 52 times a year.

its like comparing oranges and apples. what works in fashion industry doesn't apply to other business.]]>May 26th 2010 10:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
They start with a bunch of research. That company spent thousands on clothes, shipping fabric swatches on from all over the globe and trips to every fashion show known to man. Once the research is done it is split into teams. One team tackled tops, one team tackled pants and one team tackled accesories. They spent nearly 4 months designing, changeing, and then designing some more. After all that they have a company meeting to decide what goes to market and what gets left concept.

Once they have a particular seasons line set, its handed over to marketing. They have to hire the model(s), they have to design the entire store (the headquarters had a literal test store in it), and then design all the marketing materials for it.

With one month to go it sent to the factories and all the advertsing is sent to stores. At the stores the staff are trained on how to sell the fashion and how to model it (yes they are supposed to wear it.)

Suffice to say it takes a boatload more than an artist with a pad to make a profitable clothing company. Now an artist could use sites like shirt woot to just design and go but so can a person creating code. Its all a matter of scale.]]>May 26th 2010 10:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
compare that to the amount of time to 'design' a handbag, or a t-shirt, and you can see why copyright isn't a huge deal in fashion industry. the profit margin is so huge in fashion industry there its much easier to survive even if you take a hit from KIRFs. ]]>May 26th 2010 10:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 11:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
the last few minutes is where she brings it all together with tech and DRM]]>May 26th 2010 11:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 26th 2010 11:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
To copy a dress design solution you need the right and costly materials, you need people with the right skills... to copy an algorithm you have to do CTRL-C and CTRL-V]]>May 27th 2010 4:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/May 27th 2010 5:19AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/26/the-fashion-industry-survives-without-copyright-protection-ca/
Her theory is not entirely right, and not entirely correct. Since I think I'm probably the only fashion designer from Engadget's readership, I'll chip in.

I'll take a modern smart phone as an example. There are numerous manufacturers of mobile devices now, and they produce a good amount of different models of phones each. Yet for most of the time, switched off, they look pretty much the same. It's a plastic/alu bar, with some standard buttons on and a screen, an earpiece, a microphone, and a camera. They all have home buttons, some have additional buttons, they all have camera lens at the back, all have the screen and look pretty much alike if not discussing the details - iPhone, HTC phones, LG and Motorola phones, they're all bars with screens and a bit of buttons.

So basically, that's the way fashion industry looks at things, e.g. these are all different jackets, from different fabrics, with different details and cut, but essentially, they are the same form & function more or less (excluding some conceptual design).

So in that sense, these IS NO DIFFERENCE between the logic of, say IT industry here, and fashion industry. Therefore her argument has little point.

Our screens are all rectangles with glass, our phones are bars, our earpieces are... earpieces, our printers are boxes with paper in them, our scanners our flatbeds with glass on top, our cameras are little rectangles with buttons and lenses, pretty much EVERYTHING is more or less "inspired" by other designs, or actually, by the heritage of electronics.

The devil, however, is in the details. How exactly things operate, how exactly they function. This is what makes the difference. And in that respect, fashion industry is actually the same - we patent textile innovations, textile treatments, create new fibers, new materials. Best well-known examples would be DuPont, Gore-Tex and Lycra. If you buy a pair of socks that has Lycra in them, the manufacturer paid fees to use it those socks. If there are treatments that make textile fireproof/waterproof/odor proof - someone has a patent o it. And even non-utilitarian textile, like fabrics that Issey Miyake develops in his fashion house and uses, his famous pleats - those are trademarks.

So I hope that clears things up a bit. Also, she's way too annoying and positive about high street knock-offs. There is an upside, of course, but there are also numerous and serious downsides, which I am not going to elaborate upon, unless someone is really interested. Sufficient to say, she doesn't know squat about what she's talking about, and all the research that she's put into this presentation was probably done on an evening before, while readying to go to bed.

PS. Ingus, be a darling, and stop talking. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. If your POS cargo trousers made by Indian children for $1 were put together by 1 designer, 2 assistants and 2 coordinators, that doesn't mean that this is how it's supposed to be made. It's like saying "OMG DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY RESOURCES YOU NEED TO CREATE A FART APP FOR APPSTORE??!!". So don't embarrass yourself, keep quiet.

PPS. Engadget team, it's really cool that you've start this Alt project, makes Engadget stand head above the rest tech blogs and brings some wider audience, themes and questions to the table. Well done.]]>May 27th 2010 6:16AM