http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/ Engadget Comments for Nokia quarterly profits drop 40 percent year-on-year as CEO says speculation must end 'one way or another' http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
First and foremost, I'm not familiar with the Author and he might be an investor and analyst for a living, he definitely writes in a blog about marketshare, I know that much. However, he seems to repeatedly state that Wall Street is beating Nokia and it's CEO up, NOK trades at 22 P/E which is not akin to being beaten up by Wall Street standards, so unfortunately, his ultimate point is lost, at least on me (I used to be "involved" in the market and went to school for finance). He also brings up how other companies are losing money here, losing money there, it's mostly irrelevant and something to bring up if you are prideful about the company you work for/invest in/report on, nothing else...Wall Street could care less how long they've made smartphones and/or how bad others are doing, or have done, in dumbphones.


"Why is Wall Street demanding his head on a plate? "

>profits

"[the USA] didn't really believe in SMS until the Obama Presidential campaign of 2008."

>I missed this on first read, but it's just laughable.

Section "ENTER APPLE"

>better on 2nd read, and they are hitting the head on what Nokia is doing wrong and Apple is doing right, but they seem to stick to the "Why is the public seeing it this way" line of thought too much, IMHO this isn't about which is better and that's what the article is missing here and in other places (though it seems to understand this fact, as they bring it up in ways, but not in the way that matters, again IMO).

Section "Profits"

>the guy doesn't know that HTC just made a profit and they are the fastest growing smartphone OEM in the top 5, growth is what matters to Wall Street and it is growth in unrealizable profits that is most important. HTC is growing market share and margins at the same time, Wall Street is in love with that shit.


Section "Symbian"

>I think he's right that the analysts are wrong here. However, he brings up these facts about how Nokia did what was good for the world, and trust me, I wish corporations thought more like Nokia and less like Apple, but Wall Street...they could care less...they say, you can take your humanitarian ventures and shove them up your...

>I'll quote here from the same section "Buying Palm would have been idiotic in this environment. But then consider true Nokia rivals SonyEricsson, LG and Motorola - they do not control their destiny. They don't even make a smartphone OS. They are utterly dependent on Google or Microsoft (or Symbian or MeeGo) for their smartphone future. Which is the right strategy? And what of Samsung? Nokia saw smartphones as a strategic direction in 1996. Samsung launched its own smartphone OS, Bada, now in 2010. Is Nokia not miles and years and yes, lightyears ahead of its real rivals, Samsung, LG, Motorola and SonyEricsson, when it comes to smartphones? But no, now there is an Apple in the market, suddenly Symbian is 'obsolete' and Nokia is 'lost' in its smartphone strategy? No, OPK, life is not fair. Wall Street is giving you no credit for the best strategy in smartphone OS's and is rewarding Apple for very sub-optimal, proprietary, industry-dividing, hurtful, excluding smartphone OS strategies that even refuse basic internet standards like Adobe's Flash being supported."

>Again, how long you have been here is irrelevant to Wall Street, yes, it's a cruel, cruel game. Also, perhaps the reason why Nokia has lost value is that Wall Street *did* care about this, when Nokia was pioneering and seemingly the be-all, end-all...now that there is competition, even if their margins were growing and their market share was stagnant Wall Street would punish them because of the predicted expectations of the future, it's as simple as that. (again, reference their P/E ratio, it's quite good, they aren't being "punished" they're being kept in check by Wall Street who was at one time, almost always bullish on Nokia, then they started to be a bit open-minded, now they are pessimistic, but still fair IMO). Also, if Samsung, LG and the others referenced have a cruel twist of fate that land them OS less, then Nokia's stock will shoot up, but there's no reason to really right that in there unless you're a bit of a fanboy trying to spread FUD. I agree on the Palm point, they are one of the last companies that should buy them.

"Because Nokia has a strategy already in place for MeeGo, there is utterly no point in even considering going Android. "

> I can't disagree more, as I've said, they should keep MeeGo, no question. It should be their priority. But as long as Nokia can make cheaper phones than the rest of their industry they should want 40% of the Android game (random number, just because it jives with their current smartphone marketshare) depending on how cutthroat it is, but they can compete here and I could care less as a potential investor if Symbian is 759457% more powerful, I care about units and profitability. Nokia wouldn't have to put in much effort, and regardless of how lovely their strategy is with MeeGo, this is missing an opportunity for profit, even if they only market these phones in the U.S. (hey, whadda great idea!...well not according to the author of the article)

"Very quick evidence. Those cool things you liked about the iPhone? GPS? 3G? WiFi? App Store? 5 megapixel cameraphone? Touch Screen? Games? HD video recording? Video calls? - those were all invented and done first on mobile phones in Japan, years and years before the iPhone (obviously all done in Japan before Nokia did it too).

Or consider the carriers/mobile operators of America. That 'all you can eat' data plan you like on the iPhone? Invented in Japan. The 70:30 revenue sharing that Apple's iPhone App Store offers - was invented in Japan but they offer a far better deal: 90:10. Mobile wallet/mobile payments? Invented in Japan. 2D barcode based coupons you see now on Times Square? Invented in Japan. The mobile internet? Invented in Japan. Idle screen services. Invented in Japan."

>Again, irrelevant to Wall Street.

"The top Samsung Galaxy from South Korea that went on sale last week - offers a built-in pico projector! "

>again, facts wrong, this is the "Beam".

" They cannot know how outdated some of their views are, because those analysts don't get to make pilgrimages to Japan or South Korea etc to study the most advanced mobile markets."

>I live in Korea, and I love following telcom news, but to speak about advanced = what Wall Street cares about is to speak wrong.

"Now, which was the Western smartphone maker who first put a camera on its smartphone? Not RIM, not Apple, not Palm, not Motorola - it was Nokia - based on studying Japan. What was the first Western smartphone maker who first put a 2D barcode reader on its smartphones? Nokia again. TV-out? Nokia. App store? Nokia. Touch screen? Nokia. Etc. Nokia has been tracking the most advanced markets and brought innovations to the smartphone space for the whole decade, but the US based tech press do not know this, and do not understand this."

>Again, where this was useful and original to the market, Nokia got it's stock price pushed up, this is meaningless today.

"f that meant creating USA-only iPhone clones, then so be it. If that meant (remember the commitment was from 2006) creating Razr clones to match Motorola's US success, then do it. And Nokia had huge profits back then - bankroll that US invasion. If it meant Nokia's US sales had to be subsidised from other markets, no biggie, its only 8% of the world market."

>again, think Android, just *think*, because it will work. iPhone clones *might* but it really depends. 8% yes, but it's not 8% of the world revenue. Depending on what he means by subsidize, I think he means cut margins, but I can either agree or largely disagree with what he says.

"until these 4 US carriers were satisfied. Nokia needed the US market to experience Nokia's best, not Nokia's worst phones. And Nokia needed US carriers to promote its phones, so US consumers would adopt them."

>nail on the head

"Profits is a fair point but an unfair judgement. Yes, Nokia's profits are down, drastically, from 2006. But the market is fiercely competitive, and against Nokia's traditional rivals, those who sell mass market phones to the world - Motorola, SonyEricsson, Samsung and LG, during OPK's rule, Nokia has far outperformed these true rivals. "

>again, it's true rivals have also been scorched by these same analysts, I get confused if he actually sees Nokia in a bubble when he says that Wall Street is too hard on them.

"Incidentially. Four years ago, Nokia's global mobile phone market share was 35%. Since then the number of rival handset makers has doubled. The market shares of the other top 5 makers have shrunk from 48% to 40%. Did Nokia do well? Before OPK took charge, Nokia's smartphone market share globally was 48%. Since then the number of smartphone manufacturers has more than tripled. Nokia's market share is still 41%, bigger than numbers 2 and 3 combined."

>Here is where Wall Street has it really right, and the author has it really wrong. He's using "smartphones" to conflate the argument throughout the article. Smartphones is only relevant to Wall Street in the context that they are as profitable as the top tier model, the "Backflips, Allies, Palm Pre Pixis" of the world need not apply with this term. But I do think he knows that as he actually makes the reference earlier on more than one occasion.


Overall it's an article written by a former Nokia exec, I could expect a different tone, but I won't in the future if reading from him again.

]]>Jul 22nd 2010 9:21AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/"Very quick evidence. Those cool things you liked about the iPhone? GPS? 3G? WiFi? App Store? 5 megapixel cameraphone? Touch Screen? Games? HD video recording? Video calls? - those were all invented and done first on mobile phones in Japan, years and years before the iPhone (obviously all done in Japan before Nokia did it too)."

To my knowledge the first GPS phone was made by a obscure finnish phone manufacturer Benefon, not by a japanese company. Japan was first with 3G, but for the rest of those I think games might be made first by Nokia. Ericksson was one of the first with a touchscreen, if not the first.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 5:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/Jul 22nd 2010 7:28AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
In a way this is good. Atleast now they will be forced to bring out some good touchscreen handsets. ]]>Jul 22nd 2010 7:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Just drop that bloody symbian - go for Android !]]>Jul 22nd 2010 7:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/More competition is good. Why stop that? They did already say that they're going to stop using Symbian on the high end models, and go with MeeGo. I do wonder why they don't just go all in for MeeGo, rather than fragment their user base. ]]>Jul 22nd 2010 7:46AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
For now Nokia is trading value for volume. Nokia's real fightback will start in Q4 with Symbian 3 and MeeGo.

Symbian 3 is okay, actually. May not be the best but it serves the purpose of improving Nokia's margins in Q4-10 and Q1-2011.

As long as Nokia has volumes they don't need to fear much. I am sure Apple's margins will also drop when they sell 100 M iPhones per year. ]]>Jul 22nd 2010 7:49AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/Jul 22nd 2010 7:58AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Alternatively, they'll be forced to fire 10k employees, shut down a few R&D programmes and bump their prices.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 8:08AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Nice work, Engadget.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 8:28AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
You do not live up to your name. Apple *right now* makes more profit *by a factor of two* than the rest of the industry *combined*. This despite the fact they ship only 3% of the total volume of phones. The simple reality is Apple is sucking all the oxygen from the room because everyone else in the industry thought Apple was going to fail.

They knew Apple was going to fail. They felt it in their bones. It was a fact as plain as the sun rising every morning. The net result is they deluded themselves into thinking Apple was going to be a flash in the pan.

They were wrong.

So now the entire industry, except Apple, is paying the price. They will continue to pay the price until they replace the people who poo-pooed Apple in the first place, quit wasting time criticizing Apple for issues the industry already covers in their user manuals, and hire more talented, capable design people that are at Apple.

Lacking that, someone is going to go out of business but it won't be Apple. ]]>Jul 22nd 2010 8:36AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
May be 3 years ago iPhone was great but not anymore. Operators now have many credible choices and they don't need to write big fat checks to Apple to attract subscribers.

Verizon already demonstrated that without iPhone also they can succeed. I don't think Verizon will pay $600 for iPhone when they get it eventually. They will definitely leverage Android and pay less to Apple. That way Apple's margins will come down in future.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 8:48AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Difference is that Apple will having other iProds/Macs in place by then. See how iPod declines haven't hurt Apple?]]>Jul 22nd 2010 8:58AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
No, Nokia should not go with Android. They already have a killer OS for smartphones, MeeGo. MeeGo is Nokia's future and if they don't realize this themselves, they blew it.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 8:58AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Until Verizon can disclose how many Android devices they've sold or sell in a particular quarter, any sensible person can infer that it means that Verizon does not sell as many combined Android phones as att sells iphones. So far Verizon has relied upon vague things like 'our best selling phone' or 2x as many as phone x (without telling us how many units phone x sold)....and instead making people rely on data gleamed from surveys and other proxy calculations...well it can fool the general public but investors are smart and it doesn't work when it comes to the market value of Verizon.

On the contrary att states pretty publicly every quarter how many iphones they've sold and how many new iphone customers they have activated.

Lack of transparency in a public company usually means that their number isn't good enough to share.

Verizon knows they made a mistake in not accepting the iphone into their network. att is now worth over 2x in market value as Verizon. A Huge part of that is iphone and higher margin customers.

Also don't forget while att subsidizes every iphone they have NEVER done a buy one get one type offer. Verizon has an almost constant buy one get one offer, meaning their 'actual' subsidy cost is MUCH greater than it would appear.

]]>Jul 22nd 2010 9:13AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
While I don't agree, Nokia offering an Android handset would enter them into the realm of Android, where millions of consumers are constantly looking to upgrade to the latest cool and powerful offering. There are already tons of apps and people already feel comfortable with that OS. It's built a reputation in the mainstream as something that is a valid competitor to iPhone and awesome in it's own right. Nokia slapping it onto killer hardware of their own would be a big deal and get a lot of people excited.

MeeGo may be a great OS - or it may not be. We don't have the final version to play with yet. It may not resonate with people if it doesn't do enough new or differently - similar to the meh Blackberry 6 often receives despite being a full packed OS. Even if it is killer...so is webOS. Throwing another OS into the ring, no matter how strong (or not...WP7 I'm looking at you) it may be isn't a guaranteed recipe for success.

It's a world of what "OS" does it better, what has the most power, the most apps, the most potential and the best reputation. Not a world of "the best OS always wins." Nokia using a popular OS could only help them.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 9:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/Jul 22nd 2010 9:27AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/May be that's because Apple's quarterly results come before AT&T. But Verizon can't take freedom to declare how many droids they sold before Motorola or HTC quarterly results.

That said I would like to see a PR from Verizon about Android Phone sales and how they are helping them to win subscribers. I am sure they are good numbers otherwise they don't invest in droid brand much.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 9:28AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/Other than Apple and MOTO, it seems as if everyone is running with at least two.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 9:54AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Actually Apple does not say how many phones they sold on ATT, just like Motorola or HTC don't disclose for specific networks. ATT themselves just said they sold 3.2 million iphones last quarter.

So Verizon could easily say how many Android phone they sold even if they don't want to break them up by Motorola Droid X and HTC Incredible etc...For instance, att/apple said they sold 1.7M iphones in 3 days.....how many Droid X has Verizon sold till date? No one knows...they just want you to imagine it sold a LOT because they are sold out. The problem is we never know how much they sold to be sold out.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 10:30AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/I suggest you read my latest post on why Nokia shouldn't go with Android, and how Symbian/MeeGo is absolutely the right choice for LONG TERM success.


Remember, Nokia had this same issue in 2004-2005, and shortly after, literally dominated the market with the Nseries models, rising over 60% of the market at one time. This shows that 3 years is long for investors, but is actually just a microcosm of time to big companies. Apple could fall the same way, and rise again, as they, too, have in the past.

This is just a temporary blip. And the sad part is Nokia told us this would happen almost 3 years ago publicly. Short term losses for long term gains. When you have a technology, market share, IP, distribution channel, and reach advantage, you take these chances, plan ahead, and design the best future for the long haul.

Because they refocused, they can now deploy smart technology to all demographics, price points, and geographical locations. They have a unified development ecosystem, economies of massive scale, and stong brand awareness in the largest growth markets (besides the US, which can easily change with carriers finally allowing them on their decks).

Apple only sells to the high end, rich consumers, and those in developed countries. Android is too inefficient for the low end hardware necessary to build decently priced entry-level smartphones. Neither embrace much cross platform development toolkits, raising the cost of development to reach most of the market.

There's a sacrifice when choosing alternative OSes and ecosystems.

http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/010/07/why_symbian_and_meego_are_best_for_nokia_1.htm]]>Jul 22nd 2010 10:40AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/Jul 22nd 2010 10:41AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
"They knew Apple was going to fail. They felt it in their bones. It was a fact as plain as the sun rising every morning. The net result is they deluded themselves into thinking Apple was going to be a flash in the pan. "

You are pulling this out of your ass. Anyone who has worked for a high-tech company would know that people of said company takes competitors very very seriously (especially a high profile new competitor entering the market such as Apple), REGARDLESS of what they publicly say.

I've worked for high-tech companies all my career, big (a la Nokia) and small (startup). Whenever a company announces a product/service that was in competition with ours, we talk about it among ourselves, we see it mentionned in the next internal newsletters, hear executives commenting about it in all-hands quarterly meetings.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 10:53AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
The N96, N97, N85, and N86 were actually lower-powered variants of the N95, using weaker application processors. Some even had lower powered GPUs, or none at all! Aside from the slightly updated OS, they were less powerful than the N95.

Nokia assumed that their more advanced Symbian OS would be enough to hold most of their share while they created a service portfolio and unified development ecosystem for desktop and mobile across their entire OS portfolio. It hasn't been pretty, but Nokia has managed to maintain a 40% share without trying, and still has the most feature packed OS for mobiles, or actually two!

None of this plan will work if MeeGo, Symbian, and Qt don't provide great user experiences and easier development. So far, it looks to be the case. If it is, Nokia will begin to grow again in the high end, and profits will soar again. If they fail, they can THEN choose to use Android or WP7. But at this point, things are going as planned, albeit precariously.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 11:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Engadget failed to mention any positive mood in this negative headline.
This is what Market Watch said and analysts say:
"Everything about Thursday's results was pretty much in line with expectations, and that, perhaps, was the biggest surprise to analysts, considering how cautious Nokia has recently been.

"The lack of surprise was the surprise of these results," said Tero Kuittinen, analyst at MKM Partners.

Total sales rose 1% year-on-year to €10 billion. At the key device and services unit, they unexpectedly advanced 3% to €6.8 billion"]]>Jul 22nd 2010 11:32AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/"There's a good reason to keep two OS's. Meego gives them a fresh, clean slate to solve the problem that many abhor Symbian."

Close. The reason to keep two OSes is low end devices with constrained resources meant for BRIC markets won't be able to run Android, iOS, WP7, or WebOS. They need an efficient OS with a full feature list that bests those competitor OSes. Symbian pretty much runs this market and has an overwhelming lead in developer toolkit support and features, while Android isn't efficient enough to lower costs.

MeeGo fits in because it has even better runtime support and capabilities. Instead of trying to nurture Symbian forward, they will focus on Qt implementation and resource efficiency. It will be used on devices that can't easily run MeeGo because of hardware limitations. They will focus on optimizing MeeGo for efficiency, and possibly let it replace Symbian in a few years when it is suitable for tomorrow's low end hardware.

So MeeGo is being used because Linux is finally mature enough. It has little to do with Symbian, as it is still very far ahead of Android and iOS in everything but UI, which is easy to change. In fact, since MeeGo and Symbian share the same UI toolkit, much like Android, it can be customized as the manufacturers wish. Expect Nokia's versions of both MeeGo and Symbian to look alot alike, as HTC's devices do.

Now what if Symbian's UI looked alot like Maemo 5? That is what I expect to see, and when it happens, everyone will say how much the OS has improved. In truth, it will be the same old Symbian, just easier for newbs and sticklers to accept. A UI alone doesn't make an OS more or less advanced, just more palatable.

"Despite the fact that few know what the real user UX will be like on newer Symbian^3/^4, it clearly suffers from a poor image."

If you go to Symbian's website, they share all of that information. And Symbian^4 won't look like Symbian^3, but more like Maemo, WebOS, and Android. The image part can be handled by PR, but image is usually spin, and so I ignore that and go straight for the technical aspects.

"On the other hand, Symbian still has a HUGE user base that Nokia would be daft to alienate. Nokia's biggest competitor is Samsung and they seem pretty dedicated to running Android, WP7, and Bada devices. LG, the 3rd largest handset maker, will also be running 3 OS's.
Other than Apple and MOTO, it seems as if everyone is running with at least two."

Good observation! And also notice that Apple and Moto, using one OS, have little to no share in the BRIC markets, as they simply don't have the efficiency to make low to midrange devices.

So Apple's profits are supposed to be high. They are like Mercedes, only high end, high profit sales. But Mercedes will never run the industry. Nokia is like a GM or a Toyota. They make Cadillac and Lexus, but Chevrolet and Scion as well. And GM and Toyota have a far greater chance at domination than Mercedes over the long run.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 11:45AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Also, there is nothing like a well publicized threat of being fired, so hopefully OPK can turn Nokia around.

I'm excited to see the N8 - the Symbian^3 looks like it will be great. I'm just hoping it will have the hardware to support the OS.


]]>Jul 22nd 2010 11:55AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Yikes. You seriously just raped the ihaters and fandroids in one fell swoop! Congrats. Back to the article, nokia = quantity over quality. Seriously their phones look, handle and feel like junk so this news doesn't surprise me at all. ]]>Jul 22nd 2010 12:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
To argue that Android "can't run on entry level hardware" is ridiculous considering the pace of ARM SoC development. New phones will soon be moving to dual-core ARM Cortex-A9 chips, and first-generation ~500mhz Cortex-A8 SoCs should not be cost prohibitive.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 3:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
I'd say Apple is more like Porsche — high-end & geared towards margins over absolute volume. They sell a brand and an experience.

Nokia, on the other hand, is like Ford — hands in all markets, with mass-market recognition but also the ability to make a play for the high-end (see: Jaguar, or Aston Martin) if they sort out MeeGo.

I don't think anyone here should underestimate UI design, however — iPhone OS/iOS never had (or has) the most features, but it's hard to argue that they don't have one of the most cohesive & responsive UI experiences out there.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 3:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/In a 40$ there isn't much budget for processor and memory after you deduct the essentials; case, battery, display, keyboard, antenna, radiomodem, mic etc.

What's more why would they use android in budget phones? Most people who buy them don't even want a phone with smartphone bells and whistles. They just want a phone that makes and receives calls. Some might even pay a bit more for a phone that looks nice but just makes and receives calls.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 4:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Why report about Nokia's earning but not Google? Any idea?




]]>Jul 22nd 2010 5:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/Android isn't even "popular". Symbian is popular. The rest are all similar in popularity, be it RIM, iOS, or Android.

40%>16%,
and 40% = popular,
but 16% = not as popular.

Do the math. Buzz and popularity are not the same. Apple computers have buzz, but AIN'T popular. iPhones are relatively popular, more so than Android, and Symbian is even more popular, and more people are buying Symbian hardware than last year, growing share.

Anyone focusing on reaching the ENTIRE global smartphone market
will likely see falling profits because of one thing. The biggest growth markets for smartphones are in BRIC nations, where device prices are lower and margins smaller. Apple totally ignores these consumers, and Android tries, but its devices at that price point aren't quite as stable or feature packed to be competitive.

You have to know what you are looking at. Any good analyst will tell you that cheap, low margin devices are the biggest growth area, and EVERYONE competing in the low to midrange markets will see similar profit margins. Its just a consesquence of doing business globally vs. doing business in developed markets only in the high end.
]]>Jul 22nd 2010 5:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.thomson-webcast.net/uk/dispatching/?event_id=8f5cab794094a7b56febe4b95b93c1f0&portal_id=369401748e8249f142a700d8098a3473]]>Jul 22nd 2010 7:30AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/-increase of 42% YoY
-Ovi Store has 1.7m downloads a day

BUT, of course Engadget is so tendencious that they forget to show the full numbers. Why? I dunno.

For my part, OPK must have left after that fiasco of N97... With whatever other company the CEO would be fired straight away and unitl now, with the N8, they did not show a better strategy.

So for me OPK and Engadget both perform poorly in what they do.
]]>Jul 22nd 2010 7:45AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
A 42% growth in Nokia smartphone sales = losing marketshare. Smartphone market is growing at 100% per year - so tooting that horn is a negative for Nokia.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 7:56AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
And while you can try to spin this good all you want (honestly, you might be trying to balance the article, but the end of your comment makes it sound more personal than that). Here is what matters, from the NY Times:

"Nokia on June 16 issued a rare profit warning, saying it expected its global leading market share, which International Data Corporation estimates to be 40 percent in smartphones, to decline this year.

Since April 7, Nokia’s share price has fallen almost 40 percent."

And share price is the biggest indicator of what the knowledge says about *FUTURE* profitability]]>Jul 22nd 2010 7:56AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Most interesting points from the conference call:
-N8 will launch by the end of Q3
-There will be a range of Symbian3 devices by the end of Q4
-Operators are positive about Symbian3
-Targeting the high end US market with Meego
-No Android, focus on Symbian3 and Meego
]]>Jul 22nd 2010 9:11AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
NO Android, yes!]]>Jul 22nd 2010 9:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
"And share price is the biggest indicator of what the knowledge says about *FUTURE* profitability"

Well, just don't forget to add in a lot of speculation in there too...]]>Jul 22nd 2010 10:07AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
And for that number to have any basis on reality, there would be a lot of people in jail for insider trading. It is mainly based on speculation, expectations, and forecasting.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 11:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Going from 38% to 41% is losing marketshare?]]>Jul 22nd 2010 11:14AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/Jul 22nd 2010 11:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
So by your share price logic, Apple should now be a completely doomed company since their stock used to trade at $14 once? LOL

Ever heard of stock market speculation and fluctuations? It is hardly a monotonic phenomenon.
]]>Jul 22nd 2010 11:42AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/But never in single digit like crap Nokia]]>Jul 22nd 2010 12:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Comparing price per share is just plain idiotic - MSFT's share price is ~$25 whereas GOOG's is in ~$450 yet MSFT has much higher market cap than GOOG.]]>Jul 22nd 2010 12:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
A few things here...

1) Sales of low to mid tier handsets up. Handsets and services division makes $830 million dollar profit.
2) No high end consumer sales to speak off. Not surprising since the N97 was released a year ago and even if one's being picky the N900 has been out for 8 months.
3) 24 million smartphones sold is pretty damn good. People can argue about what a smartphone is all they want but until the big analyst houses change their definition that's what they are.
4) It's not enough to save OPK.
5) Market share over the last four quarters has increased. This is good news for Ovi services and developers.
6) Vlad LOL!]]>Jul 22nd 2010 3:23PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Yup.

Enjoy.

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2010/07/midyear-point-for-nokia-next-in-bloodbath-update-and-they-did-grow-smartphone-market-share-again.html

I find it very funny, that a company that is most certainly doomed and especially in smartphone segment, still manages to shift 41% of all smartphones and 33% of all phones in the world. That's quite a bit, don't you think?]]>Jul 22nd 2010 5:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/
Of late, Nokia appears to be stuck in the 90's with their business ideas. Whereas, everyone else has decided to grow up and reap the benefits.

As such, I hope Nokia fails and falls into the background as a "once-has-been".
]]>Jul 22nd 2010 7:31AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/nokia-quarterly-profits-drop-40-percent-year-on-year-as-ceo-says/Yes, poor old Nokia
Smartphones global marketshare Q3/09 - Q4/09 - Q1/10 - Q2/10
Nokia: 38% - 39% - 40% - 41%
Apple: 17% - 16% - 16% - 14%

And that without any hype or actually real working high-end devices (well N900 and N97 Mini kind of)]]>Jul 22nd 2010 7:41AM