http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Aug 9th 2010 1:56PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Good on 'ya, Google.]]>Aug 9th 2010 1:56PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Aug 9th 2010 1:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/The restrictions are on the telecom companies. It makes life easier for you. I know you hate government, but they actually do good stuff you know.]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:05PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
So how do Verizon and Google make money from this?]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Seriously. Even better, this isn't just random government intervention. This is Google and Verizon (and many other unnamed companies) saying "These are rules and regulations that we would like imposed from a 3rd party (the government) to make sure that the internet stays open."

Google and Verizon don't have the power to impose fines, so they're going to those that do.]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
They probably won't.
]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Same way they've always made money. Advertising and selling phones and plans (respectively).

When the government comes up with a plan we hear "Government intervention is bad!" When private companies come up with self-regulating rules, we hear "This is bad too!"

What exactly would make you happy?]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Thats like saying "if you want to save money, then why are you giving all your money to a piggy bank"]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Aug 9th 2010 2:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/The one with to benefit the most from unrestricted access to the Internet (Google) and the only one which can afford to offer such access for a long time to come given it has poured money into fiber to the home (VZ) want to ensure that the ones with a lot of money (MS, Hollywood etc.) cant buy their way to priority treatment on bandwidth provided by ones with constrained broadband networks (Cable broadband)]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:17PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Translation: For Wired connection Nothing is going to change.
Wireless (3G/4G...) time to warm up for regulations.]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Man, that was my thought exactly. You bet your ass they're not doing this for the consumer.....All these people singing kumbaya about Google & Verizon are lost and have no clue as to why buisnesses do the things they do. More regulations are never a good thing, especially when championed by bohemoth companies like Google and Verizon. Do no evil... unless the evil is benificial to shareholders.]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:19PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Google has an agenda, its pretty simple actually. Open internet = more ways to make money out of sharing innovation rather than closing in on itself like Apple does.

Google's agenda to protect the customer also helps them too. Because they are an open company, they benefit the same way the customers do.

You don't HAVE to set up a business that closes the entire market around your company, Google has proven that you can be competitive while sharing the market. ]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:23PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Aug 9th 2010 2:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Aug 9th 2010 2:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Exactly. This is brilliant economic analysis on the part of Google. They can make more money when more people can freely access their stuff (and other people's stuff too).

This is the free market at work, people!

I especially love the quote about "the next Google" and "two people in their garage" need to have an open internet in order to create the next big thing.]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:28PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Aug 9th 2010 2:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Did you not notice the big gaping hole for Mobile Broadband?

They specifically excepted Mobile from net neutrality. This is bullshit.

Why you loons are celebrating this is beyond me.]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
" None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsley believe they are free"

This world is doomed if we keep eating the shit we're spoon fed... Im sure they spent millions on corporate trips and meetings just for our well being.... Makes sense right?]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
I mostly agree with you. But, if you read Google's full quote on their blog, the one statement I REALLY don't like is this:

"In recognition of the still-nascent nature of the wireless broadband marketplace, under this proposal we would not now apply most of the wireline principles to wireless, except for the transparency requirement."

It sounds like Google/Verizon want net neutrality as long as it's not on your cell phone. This opens the door to throttling your cellphone's data speed, data usage, restricting websites they "don't approve of", etc. Not good. Why people aren't up in arms about this statement is beyond me? I want net neutrality on EVERYTHING, not just my home computer.

Either I don't fully understand what they mean by saying this, or people aren't actually reading what Google/Verizon are saying. Having net neutrality NOT apply to cell phones is one big caveat, IMO. ]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Dear Verizon: too much traffic on your wireless networks? There are two choices:

1. Build more capacity.
2. STOP SIGNING NEW SUBSCRIBERS YOU CAN'T SUPPORT

Dear Google: For posterity's sake, what was the exact date you guys sold out?]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
well then stop being a conspiracy theorist and come up with some real evidence. ]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
On the other hand, it could be that they're putting it on hold until they figure out what's best for the network itself. For every insidious plot, there is an equal and opposite positive explanation. Unfortunately, neither of us has proof, so leave it be, keep asking questions, and stop making undue assertions.]]>Aug 9th 2010 2:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Well you have to understand that Wireless spectrum is EXTREMELY limited right now, so they have to do anything they can to make sure that the web is a decent experience without bottle necking the spectrum.

If we manage to freeup more spectrum and more efficiently use it, I am confident that these policies will move over to the wireless spectrum.

But for not, its the LAST thing the wireless market needs ]]>Aug 9th 2010 3:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Are you naive to their intentions? The gaping hole in wireless broadband says it all. They are puting their money and effort into where the growth will be. All this talk of neutrality is just fluff and buzz words. I guess you truly have lost the ability to think for yourself and question authority....

]]>Aug 9th 2010 3:01PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Of course you want net neutrality on both wireless and wired broadband, but I think you're missing their point.

The wireless market is still a fairly young market. It would be difficult for any carrier to institute policies counter to net neutrality principles and stay competitive right now.

The point Verizon is making is that while there is a young competitive market, regulations in general are required less because the competitive nature of the market tends to self-regulate negative practices.

This isn't always true of course. ETFs are an example of where there isn't enough competition to curb this anti-consumer practice. however I think that if AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, Comcast, Time Warner or any other ISP decided to start a payola scheme, it would hurt them more than help them in the marketplace.

Google would be fine either way really. They clearly have the desire for open internet, but also has deep enough pockets to out bid anyone if net neutrality principles went the way of the dodo.]]>Aug 9th 2010 3:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
This is a *company*, people, not a charity. They don't love you like you think they do. Their primary interests are *themselves* and their bottom line, not you. That does not make them evil, but it does not make them the heroes many of you think them to be. They're a business and they want your money. Wake up. Sheesh.

(Prepares for downranking by the GoogleBot Horde.)]]>Aug 9th 2010 3:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Exactly, they want our money.

And if you analyze how they make money, you can see that they make more money from a free and open internet. So.... your logic is good, but your conclusion is ridiculously stupid.]]>Aug 9th 2010 3:11PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
actually the reason to worry is when they apply restrictions on wireless this generally works as a test bed. If wireless is allowed to be locked down as the telecoms see it eventually the same argument can be used to justify that further restrictions on wireline web.

Lack of spectrum was supposed to be addressed by data caps placed on broadband and data plans. Now they wish to impose throttling and content prioritization... ]]>Aug 9th 2010 3:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
And people that rather call me naive than actually put out a trail of thought are just as naive.

I have followed Google for a very long time and have yet to see them do anything that was really far over the line. I have suspected a few things, but once you sit down and price out the cost-benefit, most of the claims go to shit. ]]>Aug 9th 2010 3:23PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
lol.
you guys are so naive its cute.
Verizon's stake in this should be obvious: FiOS.
They know something like net neutrality will cripple cable infrastructure even more. Can you imagine if all the cable users decided to download a bunch of HD torrents? Not to mention this will also give the board at Verizon more convincing power to the share holders about continuing and expanding FiOS service. It always comes down to money. Once they cripple cable, they'll own the market and raise prices. ]]>Aug 9th 2010 3:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Carriers want to sign up as many subscribers as they can so that they have a reason to limit bandwidth, and then charge an obnoxious amount if you go over.

If carriers limited the number of subscribers, sure everyone would have a better experience, but less money would be made. So with new powerful phones released every quarter, data usage goes up and up, and everyone swims in one million dollar bills (you know, the one that has all the presidents on it)]]>Aug 9th 2010 3:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/"Google has an agenda"? I suppose it's a monopoly in search using proprietary technology...]]>Aug 9th 2010 3:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/they will profit from the more people that choose them as providers because of their more open internet access]]>Aug 9th 2010 3:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Actually Google has more to gain by a closed internet then an open internet. An open internet means they will have to deal with future competitors who could eclipse their products and services as they did Yahoo's.

Look at the exclusivity deal between Google and Verizon for Android. If they were concerned about open services and benefits to all customers then why do VzW Android devices gain priority on software updates? I worked for VzW and i sat through the Arkansas Verizon Arena meeting when Droid was released. VzW's agreement with Google is VzW is to get all latest Android updates well before their competitors. You would think using your logic that would be anathema for Google as it will cause its Android users a lopsided experience and may hinder their use of Google products and "innovations". This isn't the case they don't care..

In all honesty they have more to gain from a closed telecom system then an open one. An open system leads to further competition in theory but a closed system will allow for user base that would now be forced to use their products. Look at the deal VzW and the other telecoms have been making with companies like Yahoo, Google, and Microsoft... They are the default search engines on many phones. Look at how Google pays to be one of the options on the iPhone...

The idea that google is the benign entity is hilarious and thoroughly misguided. What it shows is the height of consumerism and peoples inability to understand business.]]>Aug 9th 2010 3:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
I suppose that's their attempt to get me off the computer and on to my TV where 33% of the programming is commercials...]]>Aug 9th 2010 3:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Back in the 90's, ISPs were faced with a similar problem when demand for streaming video and other high-bandwidth applications threatened to overload existing networks. Imagine if Microsoft had offered to "solve" the problem by paying ISPs to prioritize their search, email and other services over others? Google and other startups would never have been able to compete.

The obvious solution to congestion in wireless networks is for ISPs to build their capacity and embrace new technologies like WiMAX, not to let the biggest players on the internet pay to squash the competition.]]>Aug 9th 2010 3:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Aug 9th 2010 4:02PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Google must be the only company most people would love to see have a monopoly on everything.]]>Aug 9th 2010 4:11PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Thank you, I cant believe people are so up googles ass that they are SUPPORTING wireless throttling because google said nice things about wired connections. I already use my cell phones untethered, unlimited connection throughout my workday, so I can already see howbthis can affect me.


Google just lost me permanently. While the little fifteen year old kids blow google, in three years when your 4g is capped at 2gigs in the name of the " open Internet" well see how many free blow jobs people offer then.]]>Aug 9th 2010 4:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Aug 9th 2010 4:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Aug 9th 2010 4:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
How has Google made a monopoly, they have not disabled other search engines from progressing, they simply have out innovated Yahoo, but its not like Android's don't ship with Bing as its default (the Galaxy S series has Bing by default on ANDROID)

In order for it to really be a monopoly, they have to be disabling competition, just because they have a majority share doesn't mean they disabled competition to get there. People simply like Google for search. ]]>Aug 9th 2010 4:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
No people go to Google because its a known brand name which created a following of people who recommend their search engine. Yes, you will find Bing as a default on the Galaxy S because Microsoft worked with many of the carriers to make Bing the defeault search engine on their devices. It doesn't matter though because if you want access to the Google Android Market you have to have a google email account. You do not have to use it but you have to have it...]]>Aug 9th 2010 4:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
Maybe im wrong. So far, I dont dislike anything I've read. ]]>Aug 9th 2010 4:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
That has nothing to do with them forcing you to use their email (it might be a benefit) but really you CANT have a system like Android does and not have an account tied to it. (that being a google account because no other service would allow them to track Apps, Contacts and Checkout info in an all-in-one account) Really no getting around that.

This allows users to carry their paid Apps, contacts and checkout info to any phone they please that is Android.

But I still don't see your point, how is word of mouth a monopoly? ]]>Aug 9th 2010 4:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Aug 9th 2010 5:18PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/Aug 9th 2010 5:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/09/google-and-verizon-publish-joint-policy-proposal-for-an-open-in/
but they do have enough money to bribe your government, so it's all good]]>Aug 9th 2010 8:41PM