Can anyone tell me why Apple products always get higher scores here than Android products?
Seriously, this kind of makes me angry. How can the iPad mini get a 93, while the Nexus 7 gets an 88? The Nexus 7 is obviously the best out of the 2, lower price, higher resolution, etc. Sorry for the rant, but this site used to be less biased.
It is really easy to call bias on the internet nowadays. I recently had the chance to get out to a gdgt live event, and had plenty of nonbiased discussions with the staff.
Peter was using an HTC one X at the time (my guess is he still is), Frank and I had a lovely chat about RIM
"The gdgt score is our unique ranking of products based on a combination of review data and extensive independent analysis by our highly experienced team of researchers and editors. The absolute best of the best products are selected by our editors to be gdgt recommended."
So based on that you can tell that critic and user reviews will play a factor in things, and those in fact may have some bias. I wouldn't blame the gdgt team for that.
I own a Nexus 7 myself and not an iPad mini and I don't think it's a biased score at all. Ya, the Nexus 7 may have better numbers and specs and price but the iPad mini has the ecosystem going for it. The availability of quality tablet apps on iOS far outnumbers that on Android and the experience is much more holistic as well. Lastly, 5 points isn't much of a difference IMO. It's literally just a .5 difference in score if you put it on a 10 point scale.
I am *not* an Apple fanatic, and use a wide variety of gadgets from a wide variety of manufacturers. That said, I still value the time, effort, reviews, and sheer amount of data that these folks provide. Sure, I take the iPad/iPhone/iWhatever reviews/scores with a large grain of salt. Nothing to get bent out of shape over.
In fact, if I were a better writer, I might write some decent reviews of the gadgets I like that aren't made by Apple, and give them super-high scores based on my prejudices. :)
I've been on this site for a long time, I've read all those posts talking about android, but it just seems that most of the time people on here act a little like Apple fanboys. I don't know, but it just seems like it's turning into Endgadget, which is basically an Apple fan site now. I don't want that to happen here, I love this site, just sick of the Apple circlejerking
Well I have a nexus 7 and I agree with the score. My mini is coming mid November so we will see. I suspect though that even with the screen it will be better than the nexus. Overall I just like iOS better.
This is a perfect example of bias, bias in your opinions before you've even seen both devices? The nexus 7 was never going to get a higher mark because you've already mad e up your mind. And i think that the GDGT reviewers think the same thing.
I can still remember hearing one of them on TWIT actually say that "Apple has locked up all the best supply chain in China". Fact Check, Logic Check hell that statement doesn't even pass a basic "Could this even be true" check - i would refute it but i suspect that in doing so i'd exceed the maximum comment length on this site. Let's put it this way, Apple could increase in size by 100X without locking up all the supply chain and labour in China.
I know it's been discussed before but i definitely call Shenanigans - the marks for every apple product and OS release are crazily high. GDGT = iSheep.
No, I just think the nexus 7 was ok and mostly it comes down to my preference for iOS over android. I don't have to have the mini to know it has iOS and setup and played with my Mom's 16 gig wifi. So unless the screen proves to just be awful I think I will rate the mini higher. Apps on the nexus felt stretched as if made for phone. They gave me $15 to spend on google play, I only managed to spend like $8 of it cause they didn't have the breadth of the App Store. So the nexus 7 was fine, but the mini is much sleeker, thinner, and lighter. I'm not too hung up on hardware specs. If it performs well is all that matters. Plus, all I said was I agree with the nexus score and we will see with the mini after regular use.
OK fair enough. I don't want to argue with you but in my opinion your first statement "my preference for iOS over Android" is skewing your results.
There are plenty of apps that are not 'stretched phone apps' on Android tablets (methinks maybe you listened to the iPad Mini announcement a little too closely!). Pulse, Flipboard, News 360, Machinarium, BeyondPod, Google Maps, Google Now, Google Plus, Osmos, Eufloria, etc, etc, etc. There's a huge list, also in my opinion Android does a MUCH better job of stretching the apps, all the iPhone apps i have seen run on the iPad look horrible. But if you prefer iOS I guess you wouldn't need to go finding these things out, you'd just go back to iOS and honestly if that makes you happy go ahead. But it doesn't make you a fair judge, in my Opinion.
I think what makes me a fair judge is that have both devices and used both. to me iOS is better, just an opinion, but fair considering i matched them up against each other. I liked the nexus 7, its no doubt a good product and great for the price even. I just like iOS and the ipad better, nothing to do with hardware really. Does that make me stupid to you guys who cry bias? I think maybe the bias is the other way around. Just look at the user reviews for the mini, not the gdgt review. Are all these people wrong? Or do they actually like using it?
And their argument is that you went into the comparison liking iOS Better, and everyone knows that once you start that way turning you around would be very difficult, Android would have to be more than better - it would have to be twice as good (which it isn't). Especially as it sounds like you're "all in" with Apple - Macbooks, etc which if you're going to use Apple products is definitely the way to go - they don't use standards and they don't work and play well with others so if you're going to use them then using ALL Apple is the way to go.
Yeah, that is what I'm finding. I continue to buy and check out the new android devices too though, one day I think they will make enough push to switch, the nexus 7 or jellybean is no that for me yet.
I don't think that preference skews results. If the OS is better that applies to the product being better. In general most would agree iOS has been better and not till jellybean now just out on new device has android really gotten to rival usability. I have plenty of non apple devices so I'm not just an apple guy. In fact I use all if google services for pretty much everything even on an iDevice. The nexus 7 was the best android tablet I've had but still not better than iPad 3 former reasons than just size and hardware. Which is why I suspect I will find the mini better. Ill let you know after extended use.
I disagree on the OS being better. I think that iOS looks dated and most of it's best new features were ones that were already on Android anyway, i have always found Android to be more usable.
I don't buy into the "it just works" mantra at all - my wife has an iPad three that she won in a competition and i have spent a lot of time fighting with it trying to get it to do simple basic things correctly - like Syncing photo folders from a network share or syncing contacts from her Yahoo account.
I agree with you, but I also think that it's pretty much impossible to get a fair review of anything since most everyone already has a preference.
A lot of people say that Android has just barely caught up to iOS with Jelly Bean, but I honestly thought 2.2 was already better. My biggest problem with iOS is that you don't really have control of anything, and apps on it aren't very useful. I can get much more usability as a power user from unrooted nexus 7 than I could get from a jailbroken ipad.
The ratings are a joke. The statement pertaining to the "non profitability" of the N7 in relation to the ipad mini was the last straw. I loved this site as a repository of Al things tech, but will now lump it in with all the rest until it the Apple biased perception changes. Gross.
That is part of the problem, people are wrapped up in an ecosystem and then you review it and say well Android did not sync my itunes stuff, no icloud and so you don't get as much out of it, the site needs a dedicated android guy to review these things or to throw in his score to bump it up a little bit
Maybe people just like apple better overall. Pretty much all sites rate their products higher. It could be that this so called bias is just the simple fact that people like using their products more on average than they do the other products so far.
Hey let's tone it down a little Jensanity5000 is not being nasty he's stating an opinion.
The problem is that market share does not bear out what you're saying - far more people use Android than iOS and the shift is continuing (although a lot of Androids share also came from squeezing out Symbian and Blackberry).
So if it were just a case of more people choosing one over the other then the bias should be towards Android.
What IS happening is that Apple has skillfully manipulated the media into building up their products and personalities (kind of like a televangelist) till the hype bears no relationship to the reality. To the point where for Apple Fanboys (and i am not saying you are one) it's a religious fervor.
Like i said we're coming at this from very different points of view - i don't even understand any part of the appeal of iOS any more - to me it just looks dated and old, I mean this is 2012 what's what's with the screen of static icons? In my opinion the best recent additions to it were old Android features which they have pretty much blatantly copied, and unlike Apple I don't have a problem with that, copying and polishing features is what makes our (I work in IT) industry what it is.
Agreed on the dated look. A lot of it is really comfort with what you know and where do you have your content that make's most people's decision. They are both good but I haven't been blown away with android enough to say ok, I'm jumping ship on the ecosystem.
Two words - Scrollable Widgets. That was enough for me to hand back the iPhone4s my company gave me and go get a HTC One XL (which they also paid a LOT LESS for). It may be different in the states but the cost of any Android handset is far less than the cost of the iPhone.
Even with the "F*CK you you live in Australia" pricing we get from the worlds hardware manufacturers - put it this way some manufacturers are so bad they got summoned to a senate inquiry to justify themselves, and executives from Apple thought they could just ignore the summons as well - displaying their typical arrogance.
And let's not get started on how arrogant certain fruit based companies have been on the corporate side, they've written themselves straight out of several deals worth hundreds of millions of dollars just by being asses but that's another story. I know arrogance is part of their ethos but for a lot of people it's starting to push them the other way, i know several C level executives in Australia who were iOS users that went Samsung because of Apples attitude towards dealing with their company, it might sound silly or far fetched but it's how it works.
This is very true. I do work for a very large multinational, with 100 thousand employees plus. Apple gives them no pricing breaks. However at the same company android is not approved for security reasons to date. its blackberry or iPhone. See that security fanboy reason can be legitimate :)
Hmmm someones out of date then - you can deploy security policies to Android devices as a condition of connection when you configure EAS and they will let you lock down access to non market apps as well as a bunch of other settings. From what i've read you can lock down an Android device tighter than iOS with deployed policies these days.
It's not just pricing (although that is obviously a factor) it's the "we are the big dog" arrogance - that doesn't play well in all countries, especially not in Australia.
Not sure on the specifics but from what I understand, the central issue had to do with not being able to remote wipe the device and lock it down. Not sure if Android has that ability or not. I'm sure it will be approved eventually, in fact they want to approve it for competition sake, but security council hasn't given their blessing.
You can remote wipe and lock down Android when you connect to a corporate environment with EAS. But if your company is anything like any other big company it will take them a while to catch up, i know how that goes.
Just because a product is used by more people does not mean that it's better than others. Ever since the ipod came out, more people have been using all of Apple's products. That makes them popular, not necessarily better.
Especially when it comes to software. OS X is such crap, and so is safari. I don't know how anyone can use it.
I said they like it better not that more people use it. More people do not use OS X, but I like it much better than windows personally and dread when I have to boot back over to windows because of some old application that needs internet explorer. A UNIX based OS!!! a developer's dream.
I'm just saying the fact is, apple OS and products are rated higher across the board at every site I go to. This debunks the idea of bias and more shows that they happen to be preferred by most users. Does that mean they will win, probably not. Beta-max didn't and neither did apple in the 80's. But there is obviously something to it. For example why would someone pay much more for a mac than a dell or HP or whatever? Dell has high end machines, for me its that I want OS X on my machine and I can put windows on there too. Best of both worlds.
Agree to disagree but if the majority is saying something with their mouths and wallets, is it not short-sighted by you to assume they are wrong and you are right? If android is so much better why isn't GOOG the most valuable company in the world yet? I don't think its because they came out with their OS slightly after iOS. They are definitely catching up and I have no doubt will likely pass apple and have in market share overall.
My opinion using both: iOS is easier to use, I don't have three million handset options having to know which are upgradeable which aren't, I don't have to worry as much about malware in the store, I don't have to wait for apps to be developed as an also run after they have already been in the app store, I get apps truly developed FOR my tablet and not stretched phone apps, I have true re-sale value after a year, I have a great ecosystem macbook, ipad, iphone, that already supports where all my content is. All I really have to give up for this are: customization options I don't really want, widgets, and the ability to place my phone up to another guy's phone like a DB and transfer data.
Overall this is a SW game now, hardware has very little to do with the decision, appl competitors can make bigger screens, add more ports to plug into, etc... but they can't make iOS. so if someone likes it that much better they will pay the price to get it, just like they do with macbooks.
OK now you're really stretching reality. A lot of unix people regard OSX as a terrible perversion of what they like about Unix.
And don't start the viruses/malware thing again - remember when apple used to say you didn't need virus checking on OSX until the viruses and malware started coming. There have been expliots for both platforms and you can leave "Market applications only" on Android and get exactly the same level of security.
Google market cap is smaller than Apples because they don't make and sell hardware - ONLY software which they don't charge for so that's a totally invalid comparison.
The tablet app argument is getting old - there are still plenty of apps in iOS that are stretched phone apps on the iPAD and it does a far worse job of rendering them than any Android device will ever do. And there are plenty of dedicated tablet apps in Android now as well. The Playstore has the same variety as the app store if not more, you're arguments are from like a year ago.
I'm sorry you find choice bewildering but you could always stick with a single manufacturer and then you'd have the same hardware experience as with Apple. And resale value, really??? Cmon, if you're into tech resale value is NEVER in the equation. And don't bring out that lame upgradable argument either, what about all the features you don't get unless you buy the latest handset? iOS6 is NOT the same on the 4 and the 5 so the argument is moot.
You're staring to sound a whole lot less reasonable and a whole lot more like a fanboy. So please go use apple products and ignore what i consider to be a superior experience because it doesn't have Apples cool factor. But remember things don't STAY cool.
just look at the user reviews of the products, not gdgt reviews. mini got a higher score, that has nothing to do with a site's bias. that is reality from real users. of course reality is all perception :) You would call them all iSheep, but I think there are plenty of good reasons to pick iOS. I do think google has a good chance to win this battle eventually much like MS did with windows. Its good to have options, although that hasn't seemed to drive down apple's prices much.
I honestly believe that the "reality distortion field" is alive and well but fading. I never said there weren't good reasons to use iOS just that i consider it inferior and i have used both as well. I nearly smashed my wifes iPAD because so may things simply didn't work, and the number of times she brings it over and says "it won't..." is starting to drive me crazy.
Apples margins are dropping even if their prices aren't. This isn't a good sign for their future, neither are all the other things i mentioned about referencing competitors products and making a "me too" device. No matter how big they are now they aren't unbeatable, i believe their market cap will slide over the next five years and i have put my money where my mouth is in terms of investments. The company that is successful with an idea first is very rarely the long term winner. Being a rapacious vexatious litigant doesn't really help their image either (mind you it's consistent they've always been that way).
Time will tell. BTW if you're going to bring up all the lame untrue apple fanboi arguments you should really respond when i refute them all :)
So what did you invest in GOOG? I think you are definitely right that apple cannot grow like they have with all this competition out there. The only difference this time around then with the MS competition in the 80's is they have built up a better ecosystem and content barriers. This might make it hold out longer.
I think their margins dropped cause they released like 8 new products all at once and all the development is expensive. Generally after new product releases their margins dip then improve near the end of life of the product and go back through the cycle.
Agreed overall though.
btw, it is possible for apple fanboys to have good arguments :)
I invested in Google and long term shorted Apple. I pretty much had to argue with the guy to put the long term short though which is interesting in and of itself. Hey i could lose easily if i am wrong and that's OK - my attitude towards share market investing is don't do it if you can't afford the lose the lot. If a few more people had that attitude they wouldn't be crying poor after the GSC, SERIOUSLY if you're about to retire WTF was all your money doing in something as volatile as the share market? They were either greedy and or stupid or REALLY poorly advised, probably both.
Yeah i know it's possible but it's unlikely :) You need to update your arsenal, some of them don't apply any more...
I'll get on updating my arsenal, but you know us fanboy's, we aren't too bright. When did you start the short? cause if it was mid September you have done quite nicely. I would just be concerned that even with all the competition and even if apple does go down a notch, with their valuation there is only so low they can go. PEG ratio is .55 now. Goog's is 1.24. that is a striking difference.
It was a little before the best times but i've done OK so far. In my opinion ratios are only useful when you're comparing (sorry about this but it's irresistable) apples with apples :) Google and Apple are really in completely different businesses despite the fact that they compete in this particular area.
But you are correct in that it's a big difference. You're right about the RND investment too, BUT given that there was only six months between this iPAD release and the last one is the cycle getting shorter?
I thin peg is a good measure even when in different businesses. Price to Earnings growth basically just looks if it is priced appropriately for its earning growth. 1 means it is priced perfectly, under one is undervalued, and above one is overvalued. In fact Goog had negative earnings growth last quarter.
here is a crude but simple rough estimate equation as an example: Fair value = (Price / PEG) + Cash per share on hand.
For apple that = (547.06 / .5) + 110 = $1204.12
For goog = (663.03 / 1.24) + 135.8 = $670.50
This tells me that Goog is much more fairly priced than apple based on their current earnings growth. Of course if earnings growth slows this changes but look how undervalued appl is in comparison. Of course I don't think the stock will ever get to that $1200 number probably ever, but definitely not anytime soon with all the other things working against it. But I would definitely take caution shorting it for more than quick market spurts. With this valuation buyers will be coming in droves soon.
Well I think the scores are close enough to be comparable so you can't go wrong either way. For me personally, I'm into the apple ecosystem so that makes it better for me. I liked my nexus 7 fine though but prefer iOs since I'm very used to it now. If you aren't a part of the apple ecosystem the price premium is a tough sell.
I think it's the "must have" tag thing. I could understand how the full sized iPads were a definite "must-have" over the Xooms and Galaxy Tabs that were released alongside them, but seeing the Nexus 7 without that while the considerably more humble iPad Mini get that just made the bias completely obvious. Macbooks get higher scores than Windows laptops in spite of OS X having a weaker "ecosystem" than Windows, I don't see them getting points docked for that, so why do Android tablets get docked?