wasn't the additional features in the 5.5 upgrade from the 5.0 iPod ENTIRELY due to the Creative Zen Vision:M? Wasn't a single feature added (video playback adjustments, adjustable screen brightness, alpha search function, etc.) that wasn't already included on the Zen....

yep...too bad it's only called the Creative Zen V Plus....

@Matt:

The Sandisk Sansa already uses microSD memory with it's internal memory. Every time you turn it on, the Sansa creates a database, where it reads and logs the music on the microSD card, and integrates it with music on the internal memory. It takes my 8GB e280 with a 2GB microSD about 5-8 additional seconds on start-up, but then my ALL my music shows up upon browsing: the internal plus the microSD music. And it's all in one listing.

I'd imagine the Zen V+, if it had a SD card, would work this way.....

WOW, I have never seen someone ruin themselves so completely with so few posts! Thanks dddave, You just made my weekend. Hahaha....

To those who wonder why consider alternative DAP's to the Shuffle, please remember that competition is always a wonderful thing for us, the consumers.

Also please remember that if it wasn't for the already thriving flash-memory DAP market (of which Creative was main player), Apple would not have changed their philosophy regarding their iPod lineup, and moved away from the micro-HDD of the Mini to the flash iPod Shuffle and Nano. Both flash-based iPods out-sell the HDD iPod w/video today....

And if it wasn't for the popularity of the Shuffle and Nano helping to drive down flash NAND memory, we would still be buying 4GB Nanos, Zen V Plus's, Sandisk Sansas, iriver Clix's, and Samsung K3's for $300, instead of for $100-$150. THAT's why we welcome competition. Get it??

I'm glad to see the 60GB ZVM is as thin as the 30GB model, but the 30GB could be thinner as well. The ZVM has always been a leader in it's class in terms of features, and it's still right up there, but it's been out for over a year now, and the iPod has creeped up on it with gapless and games. Would be nice if the ZVM could also get 2 or 3 new features added as well.....

Dammit! And here I was almost halfway through making my bullet-proof iDisk vest. Ooooh, the money I've wasted....

@ David:

"The reason Windows is on 90% of the world's computer is because when you buy a PC you don't really have a choice."

What the hell are you talking about? Of course you have a choice. You can choose to buy a PC that has Windows, or you can choose to buy a PC that has OSX on it. No one is restricted from purchasing Mac PC's. Like someone else posted above, Microsoft won this battle a long time ago.

They won it when Apple didn't want to license to third-party software developers, because of the chances that those programs would be buggy. Of course they were buggy with Windows, but the competition between the developers were such that in no time there was working software applications that were compatible with Windows machines, and at a far more competitive price. Far more than with Apple's PC's.

Windows has too many roots that are too deep for Apple to make much of a dent in the PC market. But don't go around trying to make like Windows PC-owners are forced into buying their PC's - that's not accurate. Windows PC-owners choose Windows PC's because they simply can do more with them than they can do with Apple PC's.

Game over.

I'm getting a little tired of everyone attributing the scroll wheel to Apple's iPod, when it was clearly being used by mini-disk players years before the first iPod came out, in 2001. Apple chose the scroll wheel design because it offered (in their eyes) the best design in a simplistic UI control. They only later added the 4-way directional controls (play/pause, FF/rewind, etc.) in a later generation iPod, when that feature was already in use years before. By no means did Apple invent the scroll wheel design for the iPod, they borrowed it from others (see, I didn't say "ripped off").

The white colour is the only thing that reminds me of the iPod.....the design of the SOAP reminds me more of the Trekstor Vibez than of a iPod....

I guess this site doesn't care if it's bias is shown. The auxiliary screen may be ugly to you, but to everyone else, who cares?

@Joel, Dell did not drop Creative. They sell the zen vision:m and zen v alongside the zune, as well as sandisk, iriver, samsung, and sony players. They do not, however, sell the dell digital jukebox any longer, so if that's the definition of "dropping" a player, then they most certainly "dropped" the dell DJ.

I actually got the 5GB Pocket DJ back in mid-2005, and it still works great today. I was actually disappointed when Dell stopped selling the DJ, and was considering the 3G DJ, until they killed it in Jan. '06.....