@NikAmi
What you're describing isn't an "ETF" it's a phone subsidy payment plan. People here seem to be confused about what a *contract* means. Just because a portion of the ETF is meant to recoup the costs associated with subsizing the phone doesn't mean the entire thing is or should be. Think about it - do you get to sign a contract with a gym and then decide that, ah, forget it, you don't want it anymore and therefore you should be able to walk away and be out nothing at all (in this case they didn't subsize anything so the remaining balance on that subsidy would be $0). You DESERVE to be penalized for walking away from a contract you are breaking, you sign up for that penalty at the time you buy the phone, and you have other options if you don't like it (month-to-month plans where you buy the phone at full cost, or TMobile's "equipment installment plan").

Not only that, there are other costs here that no one is bothering to consider when they throw around words like "loan". Are you paying interest on the principal they've advanced you when forking over the phone? You know that it costs a carrier money to have to pay the manufacturer the phone all upfront but wait 24 months later to be paid back that "loan," right? It's their cost of capital, which is certainly not 0%, the price you're being charged. If I did my math right just now (prob not) at a 10% annual rate over 24 months, a $400 subsidy runs the carrier about $40 in interest.

@The Dead Marxist Trio
Agreed completely w/ Sanskrit. You just hold it in portrait and double-tap on the story you want to read and it adjusts the size perfectly. You can even zoom in further while zoomed in and it'll keep adjusting it to all the text fits within the window you've set but with a larger font size if you're not comfortable at the default levels (which usually are pretty much perfect).

Keyboard is very solid. It does take some getting used to as far as typing on it, but it certainly doesn't feel "flimsy" to slide it in/out or type on it.

Looks exactly like my 2007 Motorola Q9h with BB keyboard graphics. Way to go HP!

http://www.motorola.com/staticfiles/Consumers/Products/Mobile%20Phones/MOTO%20Q9h%20global/_Images/Static%20files/B2C_MOTO_Q9h_CA-EN_lg.png

You must not have read that the $15 for Exchange access was only for certain corporate contracts. There's no $15 premium for individuals (though you do have to pay more for the email+data package)

Good lord... what are you even talking about? If you don't like the terms, DON'T SIGN THE CONTRACT. It's very simple. There are still choices out there, e.g. AT&T and TMO both have month-to-month non-contract services which allow you to bring any GSM phone out there onto their network. If you're not looking for the phone subsidy, you shouldn't be signing any contracts. But if you are and you do, then expect to be held to the terms. Honestly what do you expect?

@bjsguess
"If not, then the raise in ETF is purely punitive in nature"

Well, there you go, you've answered your own question. It's exactly punative. It's a contract after all, and whatever the circumstances were for you exiting the contract early, they are entitled to penalize you for doing so. So what if you *choose* to move and no longer have great service in the new location - that's somehow the carrier's fault and they should lose the revenue you promised them when you signed the contract? About the warranty, did you not read your warranty before you bought the phone, and that's why you didn't realize how long it would be in effect? Or did you read it and decided you could handle the risk of it breaking outside the warranty but within your contract period? Either way, again that was your decision, and you made it at the time you signed the contract.

Believe me, I'm with you that ETFs can't be exobanent and would prefer to see the ETF at month 23 be closer to $0, but I don't agree that it should be exactly $0. There *should be* a penalty for breaking a legal contract. What's wrong with you people who think you should just get everything for free...

That said, I think there should also be mandated charges to telecom operators, cable companies, etc who you have signed these contracts with but they fail to hold up their end (service outages, etc). Call your congressperson to ask for sensible rules for both sides. But don't expect to be able to sign contracts and then be shocked by being held to them.

@bjsguess
"If not, then the raise in ETF is purely punitive in nature"

Well, there you go, you've answered your own question. It's exactly punative. It's a contract after all, and whatever the circumstances were for you exiting the contract early, they are entitled to penalize you for doing so. So what if you *choose* to move and no longer have great service in the new location - that's somehow the carrier's fault and they should lose the revenue you promised them when you signed the contract? About the warranty, did you not read your warranty before you bought the phone, and that's why you didn't realize how long it would be in effect? Or did you read it and decided you could handle the risk of it breaking outside the warranty but within your contract period? Either way, again that was your decision, and you made it at the time you signed the contract.

Believe me, I'm with you that ETFs can't be exobanent and would prefer to see the ETF at month 23 be closer to $0, but I don't agree that it should be exactly $0. There *should be* a penalty for breaking a legal contract. What's wrong with you people who think you should just get everything for free...

That said, I think there should also be mandated charges to telecom operators, cable companies, etc who you have signed these contracts with but they fail to hold up their end (service outages, etc). Call your congressperson to ask for sensible rules for both sides. But don't expect to be able to sign contracts and then be shocked by being held to them.

@eogueri
You people who get all worked up about the ability to use your phone outside of the country must not travel very much or know much about technology. First, it's INCREDIBLY expensive to roam out of country with any of the carriers, so if you're planning to do more than just leave your phone on while you're vacationing, you'll want to get a SIM card in that country (data roaming charges can be hundreds and hundreds of dollars for only a few days of "normal" traffic when you were at home). Then putting that SIM card into your current phone is on the whim of the carrier of whether they'll unlock the phone for that (TMO is pretty good about it but not ATT). Finally, you should know that the bands used in the US are different from those used in other countries for the most part, and I'm not aware of any phones from either TMO or ATT that is a quadband GSM (850/900/1800/1900) quintband UMTS (850/1900/2100/1700/900 are all in use).

In general I agree w/ you that it'd be nice if all these weren't still roadblocks but there are so I just travel w/ a spare unlocked GSM phone to use with a prepaid local SIM I buy when I get there.

@Terry
What are the actual speeds you're talking about when you say that EDGE is as fast as Rev 0? I just don't get where that's coming from when the spec speeds for the two are totally different (3x different). I'm a little new to Verizon/CDMA so curious if they've got some slow implementation on the backhaul side or something that you're referring to. EDGE is not fast, like 250kbps in the best case.

I'll say it again - AT&T simply can *not* claim that their customers don't know what 3G is. They basically introduced America to the term via a zillion broadcasts of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnJL5YbMs7U&feature=PlayList&p=BDC817C781E5C229&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=16