Man, these kinds of comments make me laugh. All OL-like, even.

For people who seem to think anyone who uses a Mac or iPod is some foaming at the mouth fanboy, you Zune/MS fanboys sure are irrationally exuberant. Christ, MS's software runs on the majority of computers on this planet- yet you still find something to whine about?

I mean, bias? WTF? Sure, Engadget is biased compared to the kind of unbiased gadget blog that ZuneGuy and a few of you clowns would write. Perhaps that's the answer? I'm sure you guys would cover non-MS products in a *very* unbiased, objective manner! Let's see it happen- the sky's the limit, etc, etc.

/me is wondering why all the Zune fanboys aren't telling MIcrosoft to just to buy a Nintendo DS instead of adding on a shitty API to their PMP. You guys were just telling me that the Zune is such a hardcore PMP that it doesn't and shouldn't have a clock, that putting a clock item burried in the settings menu would be adding too much clutter.

Maybe we can add games to our Zunes, but they'll just be invisible games, with no menu items through which to access them?

I've got an idea- the first game for the Zune will be... a clock! Then I'll sell it on the Marketplace, and we'll see how many of you anti-clockite deviants sell out your ideals and buy it. :D

Just a little hint: Mr. Gates and his company didn't get to be King of the Hill by whining.

...still no clock? Christ, how hard could it be? I've written clocks widgets for embedded GUIs a few dozen times- even just raw framebuffers. There is no excuse.

I'm still WTFing over this one. I was going to stay with the pre Zune 2 firmware- I wouldn't go so far as to say I was happy with it, but I knew I didn't want to upgrade... but no! We don't get things called "options."

And with firmware 2 and 2.5 we still get no fucking clock, eh?

The Zune's software is such an incompetent proof of concept aimed at hipster tennieboopers. At one point, the iPod made Apple a great target for "Form over Function" criticism, but Microsoft has taken that to a nauseating extreme. Well, at least they beat Apple at *something*.

OK, I have to ask- what's the big deal about the Touch? I mean, I have a WM6 phone, a Mogul on Qwest, and like it quite a bit. I wouldn't mind have a Touch-ish phone, in the sense of a not-recessed glass screen like the iPhone and the HTC Touch, but with the HTC Touch it just seems like a gimmick. Unless there is some drastically better new ROM that the Sprint store hadn't installed yet, it seemed like it aped various iPhone functionality in a poor way. Things like scrolling, using my finger, was clumsy as hell, just as bad (or good?) as using the utility meant to duplicate it for other WM6 devices. It certainly didn't have the kind of usefulness in that regard as the iPhone or using Picsel or Opera on a WM6 device.

What gives?

I've often wondered- is there anyway to use an EV-DO WM6 phone to do this? That is, allow my Qwest Mogul/HTC 6800 to take its EV-DO TCP/IP connection and share it with another device via wifi, acting as an access point. This would let a lot of devices get online through my phone that otherwise can't. Something I often could've used, but sort of hard to Google for.

Similarly, does anyone of something along those lines being worked out for the iPhone by homebrewers? Take the TCP/IP EDGE connection and share it through the iPhone's wifi. For me, the lack of the ability to use the iPhone as a modem, as a device to get online with my computer via BT is a showstopper.

I used to have an app on my Newton 2100 that came in handy during a few emergencies... I had a modem for my Newton, but not for my desktop, and a handy app just routed between the Newton's port to the modem; the G4 tower then had a serial to USB adapter. It was slow as hell, but better than not having any net access whilst I waited for the cable to get connected! :)

Umm, what kind of moron thinks this is rap?

All I hear is a parody/re-work of a Dido song, with a voice-over in between from the guy the song is about. I guess talking is rapping, in the sense that Bill Cosby says to his song "Hey, Theo! Sit down with me for a sec, we gotta rap about how you're doing in school." E.g., talking. So, if writing new words to a pop song and adding a spoken word part is rap, perhaps we can call any shitty music that uses instruments punk, alt *and* indie rock?

Nor is this hip-hop.

Rap music involves rapping. Way too many people seem to think that rap, rock, punk, and pop music involves a catchy loop with people talking over it. What distinguishes one from the other in their minds is beyond me.

So, I was one of the schmucks who bought one of these for $100, though it was a black one. Anyway, I'd no idea that the Zune was so... shitty! I mean, I knew they were going for an iPod rip-off, but I had no idea that they were taking that idea to the 7th level of hell. From what I can see, there's no way, at all, to use this thing as a generic USB mass storage device, or to just copy all of my mp3s to it, via Windows, OS X or Linux. I feel like I've been buggered!

I know I should've done this research before I paid for it, but I was of the mind that even if it didn't work out for me, I could still take out the HDD and put it into a 4G iPod w/ a dead HDD I had given to me for free. I was willing to settle for a $100 Zune, but it looks like I'll be going for the $100 iPod route instead, which is better but far from perfect- I totally tarded out and assumed that, like the other Windowsy PMPs I've owned, I could just copy a bunch of mp3s onto this sucker.

It's funny that MS can't figure this shit out. Step in with an Apple-like iron fist, trying to look like the hip and rogueish underdog, but without the marketshare to pull it off. If that worked, you certainly wouldn't see robbers bringing more than a watergun to hold up a liquor store...

I'VE BEEN ZUNE'D!

Maybe you see "scant Apple supporters" because your own perceptions of seeing a fanboi conspiracy around every corner is illusory? There seem to be a number of Apple supporters reply to this thread, but they, like most, happen to be level headed and think it's shitty when Apple pulls this kind of sleaze.

Sorry, but this isn't religion. Unlike most, say Christians, I don't have to rationalize and ignore contradictions and backwardness to be able to continue to use my MacBook Pro gladly and effectively.

There are idiot fanboys who support Apple regardless, pulling B.S. apologism out of their asses, but too often the anti-fanbois take fanaticism to the next level, with that high-school non-conformist mentality. This thread illustrates that most Apple users aren't morons who pray toward Cupertino 5 times a day, but regular schmucks who can be, at some point, pushed too far. That limit is probably pretty far out there, considering how MS is still very much alive and in control of most of the market, so I wouldn't get your hopes up and start posting "Oh Noes! Apple and Nintendo, going out of business next week!" because they're draconian dicks with the iPod and iPhone.

...where are those goes who like to come in on every Apple thread and moan about how Engadget is nothing but a den of crypto-fanbois all hot for Apple?

Just checking, but is "unlocking" the right word for this? That is, if you buy an iPod touch, can you take it out of the box and play with it? Not too useful considering how gimped out they made it software-wise compared to the iPhone, but that's another story. Is this just the same thing you'd do with any DRM'd PMP, plugging it in and telling iTunes that this is one of your music players, and as such it should be given access to play your DRM'd music?

If the latter the case I'd say "unlocking" is rather the wrong term. Unlike what some folks are saying, that sort of procedure is required on all sorts of other devices, be it Zune or some PlaysForSure device. But if it's "unlocking" ala the iPhone, that'd be pretty abgefuckt.

Hook me up!

Cool beans, sign me up!