Wow, for supposedly tech minded people, I'm always amazed at the lack of vision of Engadget posters...

First, this is a concept vehicle - A CONCEPT VEHICLE! If you bothered to read the link or any more information on this issue, you will know they are not looking to make or market this particular vehicle. They designed it as proof-of-concept and will take what they learned from it to possibly use on future production vehicles. Maybe it will be the whole concept, maybe it will only be a certain software algorithm they created for the concept. This is the way cars have been designed for about the entire history of the auto industry - create something wild, just to see what you can use from it.

Second, it is obvious the majority of people posting have no experience in any type of design or engineering of products. Some how, they believe fully fleshed, retail, products come off the tube and into production.

Maybe I'm pissy today, but reading posts like these make me glad most of you don't work in an industry I would have to use your products.

(and for full disclosure, I don't directly work for an auto company, but design the robotics and assembly lines that cars are built on)

I have to admit I was a little disappointed. Like other's have said, they seem to be using this only as advertising the boat at the boat show, which is nice, but why not feature the things that can be done with it once you own the boat. These yachts are full of technology and it could all be tightly integrated with the Surface - electrical systems, mechanical systems, propulsions systems, cameras, radar, GPS.

Hell, on a 76 foot yacht, you have a hell of a galley, with little effort, you could pull up a real time inventory and create a shopping list for when you are in port to stock up.

There are a 1,000 uses for the Surface in this application and all we get to see is re-sizing photos and videos again. I like using the wood samples to see what it would like like in the finished product, but that's not something that you are going to do once you own this yacht.

Fix the world economy by giving all the world's wealth to me. I will dole it out as I see fit. Scratch my back, I'll scratch yours! :)

No, Tiger doesn't use one of these - but you can bet your paycheck Steve Williams does!

For all those that think "tech is ruining golf" and this is ruining the game, what is the difference between using a GPS to get your yardages, or paying a good caddy to walk off those distances for you?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

While Engadget is pretty powerful in the tech world, I don't think they've yet reached the level of Congress. With a name like Constitution, I think you should actually read this. One of my biggest pet peeves is people incorrectly citing "freedom of speech" when there is no government involvement.

Please, everyone, remember this simple rule - if the government has nothing to do with an issue, it is not a Freedom of Speech argument!

MVP:

Where did you get your numbers for foreign auto workers in the US pay scale? I know with the ones I work with, they average from $12-$17/hr, max, most falling in the $14-$15/hr range. That is a lot less than $60,000/yr ( around $30/hr). And those at $17 are the skilled workers.

Awake:

Are you basing that price on market cap? That's about the only way you I can see to come up with that number. And market cap has nothing to do with what a company is worth. GM has a market cap of 2.7b, with revenues of 187.1b. Apple has a market cap of 82.3b, with revenues of 32.5b. Microsoft is at 173.1b, with a 60.4b in revenue.

Given those figures, you still can't evaluate which is the more valuable company, the more profitable company, or much else about their "worth".

GM still still #4 on the Fortune 500 list.

Boe:

I agree with you about using running out of utility. They were desperately needed when they formed, but times have changed. And that is true for most unions. Now, most unions don't fight for a better life for workers, they fight to exist.

As with almost any social group with an agenda, once their agenda is reached, they turn their focus straight to self-preservation. The unions fought for workers rights. Once they got those rights, what are they going to do? Fold up and shut down? How can you do that, when you have thousands of people working for you and making a lot of money? So you push your agenda further and further, until your agenda becomes so ridiculous, you get caught in a back lash.

Like I said, Greenpeace and PETA are good examples of this - they started out with a much needed message, but as things got better, their message got more extreme: Don't kill puppies and don't wear fur! Ok, sounds good. Ok, I know you aren't killing puppies and wearing fur, but you should stop eating chicken, they are killed inhumanely! Ok, I'm not too concerned how I kill something that is going to be killed, but good point. We'll treat them better. Ok, you are treating the chickens better, but you should make ice cream out of breast milk to stop exploiting the cows! Ummm.... What?

Think of how many people are being paid by the UAW (or PETA). Do you think they are every going to say "You know, things are much better. Our job is done. See ya!"

h:

Very well put yourself and thank you for touching on the suppliers to the transplant companies. On my desk right now are headlights for a machine we are building. It will assembly multiple models of headlights. Right now I have six sitting here, four are for the Big 3, 1 for a European company (currently owned by a Big 3 company, but probably not much longer) and one for a Japanese company. The company supplying these HLs is a Japanese company.

Most of the suppliers to the Japanese company also have a big customer base in the Big 3 and if one or all of them go under, they may go under. If they go under, the supplies to the transplant companies will suffer, quality and price will suffer and buying a cheap, dependable vehicle will be very hard to do.

Boe:

I'm not saying what you stated isn't true, it is just not true now. Most of what you have stated has changed. Janitors are not making the same $26.50 an hour that most non-skilled UAW members make now. And as of the last contract, there is even greater tiered pay, with new workers coming in making lower wages (almost half) then those that are grand-fathered in.

But the work rules are still in effect. The last time I was in a GM plant, it took me 3 hours to do 5 minutes of work. All I had to do was open an electrical panel and switch a couple of jumpers. But I wasn't allowed to open the panel. An engineer had to call a UAW electrician to open it. He shows up 20 minutes later to the machine and asks what I need and then has to go get his tools. I had a quarter in my pocket, which would suffice to open the panel, but 20 minutes later, he shows up with his straight slot screwdriver and opens the panel. I ask him to wait and he can shut it, but he is "busy". So I finish in 5 minutes. We then call for him again and it takes him 20 minutes to come back and ask what we need! Of course, he doesn't have his "tools", so 20 minutes later he is back to shut the panel.

This treatment is exactly why we started no-quoting any work directly for the Big 3. It just wasn't worth our hassle to build anything for them.