Anyone can help rethink the design of their favorite desktop Linux app (that isn't too large) so that it fits in nicely with the Sugar interface. See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Human_Interface_Guidelines and http://dev.laptop.org/

I also suggest for now that you try and use as few apps at one time as possible in the XO. Also, browsing worked quite well for me, but you may want to download the adobe flash plugin (see http://www.laptop.org/en/laptop/start/troubleshooting.shtml ).

I think the laptop is competitive when you consider the extras it has (average ebay prices should rice into the $3xx or at least upper 2xx now with the g1g1 being over). You can't get portability and some other nice features without giving up something.

You are probably right that assuming you are willing to sacrifice having one (you are happy with something smaller or something larger) then you can find better deals if you look out for them. The biggest problem with these machines I think is the amount of RAM; however, there may be software bugs or sw that is not yet optimized (eg, weak areas here or there plus Python in cases C would be best) since 256MB is not that little if you have swap. Of course, swap to flash is not ideal either. In theory there should be no problem adding slower memory (through USB) to be able to run larger apps. [Even this slower memory is much faster than disk, btw.] So through USB thumb drives or something similar, I expect that large applications will be able to run on this.

But the key here is that on the road, most people are usually willing to sacrifice some power. If they aren't, then they probably are willing to spend $1000+ for a laptop. Don't compare the XO to those.

Anyway, people that don't develop probably don't realize that immature platforms have more room to improve than more mature platforms. The XO is running a lot of sw that most people don't run because it is new. This means there are more bugs than in some other cases and areas where optimizations are still to be made.

Also, this machine is very open. The software improvements made by the community can occur down to very low levels. Normal laptops will always carry more baggage and have to deal with a certain amount of proprietary inefficiencies that the proprietary vendor will never get around to fixing.

When you say that, be reasonable what you compare it to. We are talking about a laptop with many features that handhelds do not have (or do as well as the XO does: eg, large screen for reading in sunlight or in dark and good size keyboard; plus excellent sharing abilities if you bought more than one; plus the ability to run virtually any light FOSS apps .. once these get ported over to work gracefully with Sugar). You also have to realize that this platform continues to improve and will not be abandoned as happens to many other more closed platforms. The software that now runs on it will run faster and new softare will continue to be added. Finally, in bulk, you can't beat the price (eg, for school or large business or gov buyers).

As far as the G1G1 program, well part of the draw there is the donation and to get something special on its first offering (and to help the effort along in its early more trying days). Aside from that it is competitive if arguably not the best deal on the market @ $430 (including shipping and tax). It may be the best deal, but that depends on your needs.

Let me add to what sracer stated ...

The video and audio recordings you make on it sound much better through real speakers (in my case, I used usb stick to transfer to my desktop). This while using the built in mic, so I imagine if you attach a separate mic it would be even better.

The web cam is good for basic limited functionality; however, there is a usb so support by stronger peripheral hardware should be increasing quickly (now with more machines out).

The software on the machines will continue to improve (including the python interpreter). The problem I found is that when I load up several of the larger apps, the laptop eventually gets a little flaky (I think it is a memory issue).

Overall, I feel great taking the XO with me on the road. It's light; easy to carry; great in sunlight and heat and humidity; much easier to type on than smaller handhelds; has all the basics (including a shell); has some activities that excel on these machines (since networks set up automatically and sharing is so easy); and with all of these things comes a greater peach of mind. Naturally, there are some limitations (not enough RAM or CPU power to be able to run some of the better apps now or in the future) but then you pay for some things so you expect to give up a few others for a given price. .. For the basics, it's a liberating machine.

I'll repeat this again. The software on these machines will continue to improve, especially with a lot more developers now getting their hands on them. In time all the basic apps that aren't hogs (including slim versions of almost any app) will run on this. Then, as long as you run just one (big) app at a time, things should be fine.

Inferior build quality my axx. You must work for a competitor.

I take my XO's where I wouldn't take my other laptop. Ruggedness, good wifi reception, and better performance under sunlight are just 3 of the reasons.

Where I fault the current iteration of software is that if you open too many applications at once (depends on the application) they start to have problems. Fortunately, software can be fixed easily when the updates come out. And I can usually manage with no more than 3 apps running at the same time to avoid trouble. Another round of optimizations would be much appreciated.

You also said the software is complex. Yeah, I suppose it's more complex than a wrist watch. My niece really likes it. She tends to like the really "complex" stuff.

>> I just don't see how this is going to succeed in 3rd world countries.

Get your head out of .. so you'll have a better view.

What's to be ashamed of? You are talking about software. Now that the machines are in consumers' hands and in the hands of many more developers, the platform will be able to grow much faster. Software is easy to update and gets speedier as it gets optimized.

#1
>> simply inserting a dvd into a pc will render it completely installed without configuration

From what I have gathered from LinuxMCE website, after installation, the DVD thing works automatically as shown in movie clip. It takes a while to set up the system (you can get professional installation or do it yourself). It may take a few minutes (or more depending) to add remote controls to the house, etc. Once everything is set up (and the "core" is running on a PC 24/7 "watching" the house), you can get all sorts of automatic situations. In theory, almost any device can talk to any other to get the others to take action.

A detailed example I conjured up based on what I understood from the website (I skimmed but I do have a programming background): Turn on a lava lamp automatically whenever your date calls up and the door bell rings within 3 minutes of each other by having the phone fire off a "person_is_calling(your-girlfriend)" command, the doorbell fire a "doorbell_is_ringing(at-front-door)" command, and a small piece of software running on the network listening to these commands and then firing of a "turn_switch_on(the-east-switch-in-your-bedroom)" command. The lava lamp will be attached to the "east" switch in the bedroom. The utility software I mentioned may not exist but you can code it up quickly (if you know some programming language and know how to make a program that listens and fires onto the network through Linux/Windows sockets). You then register this piece of software, as well as the doorbell, phone, and switch, with the Linux MCE core server [Linux MCE provides a simple web interface to register most things, but for complex registering (eg, something not in the database), you probably need programming experience]. Finally, you ask your girlfriend to call you up right before she rings the doorbell. Voila, the lava lamp turns on.

The actual software that runs this whole thing (LinuxMCE and the plug-in pieces) is 100% free of charge and open source (there is a way to buy proprietary plug-ins, btw). Because LinuxMCE is completely customizable, as you acquire new hardware (or software apps) or you get new interesting ideas for existing hardware or apps, you can make your house smarter!

This is the power of Linux and of Open Source.

Some references are
http://wiki.linuxmce.com/index.php/History
and
http://tinyurl.com/2yeh2w
and
http://tinyurl.com/yt5btp


#19
A major difference between the products from real open source communities and those from Microsoft is that while Microsoft tries to force proprietary standards on the industry, the open source community develops a consensus on the standards that it needs. The open source community also develops software at the same time. The software and the standards go hand in hand, each helping to advance the other.

Linux MCE is developing standard interfaces so that anyone in the world can (for no charge) sync their devices onto the house in an interchangeable way. This is why there are a lot more controls to turn things on and why things are in general more uniform without artificial limits.

Microsoft has much lower resources to develop standards and likely what it finds strategic is not what others find benefits them.

Then Microsoft has the gall to charge hundreds for a crippled product when another is virtually free. The smart companies adopt and refine open source. Microsoft is a different company that is and has for a long time used its market clout to force products and standards onto end users. MS has their lock-in hooks.

You know what they say: if you live by the hook, you die by the hook.

Cont. from earlier post

#12
>> I have been following the PlutoHome project for about 2 years now. It's very interesting, but not for me yet because I am hard of hearing and MythTV doesn't do Closed Captioning (CC) very well.

I think if you get a distro with Beryl and MythTV, you can use the Linux MCE framework to control zooming in and out of anything on the monitor using your keyboard, remote control, whatever.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZD7QraljRfM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y6kd42jIaHk
http://youtube.com/watch?v=i0ZtcxHUSDQ
ht tp://youtube.com/watch?v=ALqduQfm09c


>>Now the video starts with several, err ... mistruths. He claims this wonderful out-of-box experience where LMCE knows everything about your TV/video/stereo and automated home solutions. That's a flat-out lie, as there is (still) nowhere you can buy a packaged PlutoHome/LMCE hardware/software setup. Verify this on the LMCE wiki:

From the link:
> Linux MCE has taken a different approach. Linux MCE is an appliance solution. However we do make the software available separately, and in fact give it away for free, so techies and software programmers can build their own high-end appliance system for free. And, as an open system, competing PC hardware manufacturers can license the Linux MCE platform for standard, low-cost PC's. Linux MCE brings down the cost even more by offering all the functionality in 1 system: whole house media & entertainment, home automation, telecom, security, and personal computer. So, you only need 1 Linux MCE system, rather than a hodge-podge of different systems.

In the future, if not right now, I expect many manufacturers to come up with products that use Linux MCE to provide a subset of what Linux MCE does but all in one package. Somewhere on the website there are offers to have people come in and help set things up for you (for a fee). You need a dedicated PC to be on 24/7. Besides that, you just need to have electronic things around the house that can be given "commands."

Maybe you can post a specific query to their mailing list.


>> suffice it to say, the 'out-of-box' experience documented in this video is at best a pipe dream.

The video shows what happens once the system is set up. Setting up is not trivial, but it's nice to know the state you can reach afterwards. Windows MCE doesn't reach a state that is as customizable and easy to use as what Linux MCE can do for a user that sets it up as such. [Or so I hear]


>> The presenter claims you can buy a used PC and all the devices shown in the video for less than $400.

I don't doubt you can if you price shop. For the PC, you can buy used. Certainly nothing is necessary from a fancy brick/mortar shop.


#13
>> Yep it's been very dissapoint to see Myth-TV with a hell of a start be overtaken by windows and other commercial applications.

Well, Linux MCE is not MythTV. Maybe that is confusing you. Linux MCE leverages the gains from MythTV and from many other open source projects.

Microsoft buys companies that have been in the market for a long time and gives them a distribution channel (under the MS logo of course) to increase their scope. If you see a "new" product from Microsoft, it wasn't that they started it yesterday inside their laboratory.

And everyone can study the source code for MythTV. Thank goodness for open source!

Oh. Almost forgot. Linux MCE does a lot more than MCE and costs $0.


#17
>> I like the idea of the LMCE universal remote, but honestly, I prefer buttons to waiving my arms around, and I need number buttons to channel surf

So use a remote with Linux MCE.


#19 Brandon,
I don't use Windows software and am basing the Linux MCE info on what I have read and what I know about other projects. Linux (and Linux MCE, MythTV, etc) is open source. This means that you have a lot more of a headstart to do any new project. I am sure that using a PC running Windows 95, you can achieve a lot given enough decades hammering away. With Windows though, there is always a lot that the developer cannot access. Also, Linux MCE seems to have a very simple mechanism for registering many types of devices.

Windows is a Titanic because Microsoft cannot afford to open source their software (and if they did, they'd be way behind in the game). Also, Microsoft is so fiercely competitive (lying and breaking the law are not uncommon) and so greedy that I cannot ever imagine them getting any sort of strong community behind them as Linux has today.

If you think the guy in the video has lied anywhere, post it to the Linux MCE mailing list.


#20
>> Actually, there is a setup that is pretty nice out of the box if you want to try it. It is a knoppixmyth setup.

Linux MCE uses MythTV and a bunch of other stuff. It provides a lot of glue (and Pluto provides an architectural foundation for automating the home/office/etc).

From what I have read on the LinuxMCE website, I think some posters here are confused.

#2
>> Hey look Linux MCE cooks my dinner before I get home!

That can be arranged, but not with your attitude.

You will have to be creative. You will probably have to buy a special fridge that spits out a frozen dinner on some cue. You will need to set things up so that it lands in the microwave. You need a microwave that can open and close and start cooking through some cue.

Then you need to write some programming code to get the timing right, to determine when you want to start the process, then time the fridge and microwave commands properly (someone that knows how to code for this system should be able to do this without too much trouble after some experimentation with the fridge/microwave).

Then you register the fridge, microwave, and glue appication and the associated commands, etc. You'll probably also register some cell phone command to start the process via cell phone.

Then you make the call.


>> And did anyone notice how that UI looks?

If you were more optimistic, you might just send in some suggestions to a mailing list. Maybe offer up some artwork or design ideas. I'm sure if you have contributions to make, someone will want to listen.


#3
>> It's not "Linux MCE" it's MythTV

Wrong. MythTV is software used in the system. It's like saying that TiVO uses Linux. Linux is not TiVO, but Linux helps build the overall TiVO product.

Other software involved are tons of glue code scripts and infrastructure software (Pluto + LinuxMCE additions/changes). Asterisk and Xine are two that are mentioned in various places on the website. You can add your own stuff.

I think MythTV handles the TV/menu aspects of this, but LinuxMCE is a platform for building a smart house. MythTV has little to offer for your toaster or microwave. MythTV isn't really set up to automatically send emails or make phone calls or turn the house into a Hauted House at 6:30PM, Oct 31.

Even with MythTV, you have to add stuff. Eg, controlling a menu on one TV/PC for what is showing on another TV/PC requires coordination logic with the LinuxMCE core server which provides setup information and dispatches the controlling information/messages across the network.


#5
>> I haven't added ANY hardware to my living room that wasn't already there. Oh, and its all running on M$ soft/hardware...

M$ soft/hardware is a lot more expensive than what you have here. M$ software is less flexible and to get the next batch of M$ "goodies" you will have to fork over more money and you will be limited to Microsloths time schedule and "creativity." M$ hardware also does not cover the spectrum of devices I want to exploit.

The addition needed for LinuxMCE is a PC that will be on 24/7. Beyond that (which you may already have and doesn't have to be in the bedroom) and configuration/time (as you get new hardware and interaction ideas), all you need is... nothing.


#6
>> You can only go through the list one item at a time in MCE but you can page up and down in myth? Guess what, you can do it in MCE too.

From what I remember seeing, he says you can page on MCE. I think he implies that MCE doesn't allow you to skip pages or jump to say the 500th page quickly. LinuxMCE allows you to get to the beginning or end or any fraction thereof very quickly.

Also, LinuxMCE is customizable. Some programmer out there will implement the feature you want if you are pursuasive. I doubt that same honey will get you very far in getting Windows MCE updated to have a feature you like.


#8
>> Vista Media Center is a lot better and looks more polished than Myth Tv

Your opinion can't be incorrect (for you), but LinuxMCE is more than just MythTV. See http://wiki.linuxmce.com/index.php/History


#9
>> Also I like a remote control! even though I use my air mouse from time to time when I'm to lazy to get up and find it.

LinuxMCE has no limits on what you use for controlling what (if you can't find it, you can in theory program it into the system). A mouse may have some benefits over a remote control in that a mouse spits out 2D coordinates at a high rate and these coordinates correspond to the location of the mouse so in that sense it is intuitive.

You can use the clapper in morse code fashion (once you get the program done as I don't think this is a standard option yet) to start recording a show if that is what you want. First you turn on the switch. Then you turn it off and on numerously to specify the time to program and the channel. Sure, it is tedious, but it is nice for when you can't find your remote or airmouse.

More practical though would be to use a remote keyboard do the aforementioned recording setup. You can also use the keyboard to control the cooking in the kitchen without having to leave the living room. Maybe have room sensors that automatically cause the show shown in the living room TV to be displayed on the TV in the room you are entering.


#11
>> Hah! Swing your remote to rewind. I can do that with a button on Windows MCE.

Great. You can do one more of the virtually infinite number of things LinuxMCE can do.