http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/ Engadget Comments for Apple estimates 250,000 iPhones sold to SIM unlockers http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2010 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 5:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
I suspect these numbers were announced more to reassure carriers than anything else. While at&t did lose some sales to unlockers the numbers weren't really that large.

I do agree though that these were found sales. The vaast majority of those customers would not have bought a phone at all if they couldn't unlock it.]]>Oct 22nd 2007 6:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
Does Apple want everyone to own iPhones? Yes. Will Apple do whatever it can to make sure it gets that extra money from its carrier agreements? Undoubtedly so.]]>Oct 22nd 2007 6:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/> ... Multiply that by 250k = $65,000,000 -- not exactly chump change.
>> ...

But I wouldn't have bought 2 of the 250k iphones if it couldn't be unlocked. And I'm sure most of the 250k customers would agree. That'd mean a big fat $0 instead of the $65M for Apple. In fact, by your calculation, Apple still gets $240 * 250k = $60M without activation. That ain't too bad compared to $0 if the customers don't buy at all.
]]>Oct 22nd 2007 6:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 7:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/But I wouldn't have bought 2 of the 250k iphones if it couldn't be unlocked. And I'm sure most of the 250k customers would agree. That'd mean a big fat $0 instead of the $65M for Apple. In fact, by your calculation, Apple still gets $240 * 250k = $60M without activation. That ain't too bad compared to $0 if the customers don't buy at all.

In reply: I believe Ryan's numbers was referring to $240 (their percentage from monthly bill of subscribers) * 250k so unlocked phone actually loses $60M, not gains since T-Mo doesn't hand over any percentage of monthly bills.

I guess the only way Apple could make some revenue from an unlocked phone would be with iTunes.
]]>Oct 22nd 2007 7:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
Of course it's a huge wonder. I'm not gonna hack my damn phone, nor am I paying full retail price for a locked phone. Ever. No matter how good it looks, or what it does. It's pure stupidity. Apple would have made a lot more money just honestly selling phones that it will trying to be one of the shady characters for which the US cell market is famous. Personally I'm waiting for 3G, mainly because Australian 2G carriers charge $1/minute at the cheapest for GPRS data. Telstra, our biggest carrier charges 2c/kb for GPRS. Yes, you read that right, $20 a meg. But on 3 I'm paying $29 for a GB a month, not taking into account the fact it's much faster.]]>Oct 22nd 2007 7:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
Exactly. It's like SW manufacturers who claim to "lose" billions in sales due to sw piracy. If the people who have pirated the SW wouldn't have bought your product in the first place, then you didn't "lose" any money at all.

Now that 3rd party app support is rightly on the way, I'll consider buying an iPhone, if the app selection process isn't locked down. However, I'm predicting Steve won't be allowing a Skype client anytime soon :/.]]>Oct 23rd 2007 11:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 5:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
Apple gets MOST of that $500, as per the terms of its contract with AT&T. Why do you think Apple bothered with an exclusive dealer contract in the first place? Apple gets about as much money as the iPhone costs--probably about $400--every time someone buys an iPhone plan from AT&T. Apple makes MOST of its profit on the iPhone when people buy service from AT&T.

THAT is why Apple is obsessed with unlockers. It's not because Steve Jobs is a control freak (though he is). It's because he's greedy.]]>Oct 23rd 2007 4:03AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
AT$T is most likely having a pissy fit, leading to the Apple (attempted)lockdown.]]>Oct 22nd 2007 6:08PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 8:25PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 6:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
The lack of proper government intervention he says resulted in two different cellular technologies in use (ie. CDMA and GSM), as opposed to one standard. The fact that the lobbyists and lawyers for the cellular industry in the US are so powerful limits how much the government can actually do. He also speaks about how the opening of the 700 mhz spectrum might open up the industry but he makes no promises.

I know that the WSJ online is subscription based so I'm not sure whether you can get the article for free, (sorry, no link) but if you get the WSJ hard copy check it out. ]]>Oct 22nd 2007 10:34PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 6:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 6:30PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 7:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Got one shipped from the states. Its on pay as you go as well and the data rates are very cheap. You really cant imagine my face when I unlocked it, sitting in my room at home and the little Orange word came up in the corner....more than that I got the E for EDGE coming up and have NEVER lost it. Am down in Kent and from what I can find out, the Orange Edge network is much much BETTER than O2's. For Orange web details I did a quick Google and found all the settings. Its the same on all phones. Works a charm I tell ya. Are you trying to set one up here? Will be happy to send you the settings if you want them.]]>Oct 22nd 2007 7:21PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
send the details to cristatus [at] xemaps [dot] com]]>Oct 23rd 2007 1:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 6:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/If 250k were sold to unlock, and they've sold about 1.3 million total, that's roughly 1 in 5 customers who want an iPhone, but would rather not use AT&T. What was that saying about the customer always being right?

That would mean 4 out of 5 people use it as intended. :|
]]>Oct 22nd 2007 6:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 6:57PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 6:51PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
Please respond on here or email me at crisilis @ hotmail.com]]>Oct 22nd 2007 6:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 8:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
If it's easy enough for these people to weasel out of the contracts and flip the phone at a profit, then AT&T shouldn't cry about people using the phone on other services. They should do something about their plan terms. There's already a special section in there for the iPhone . . .]]>Oct 22nd 2007 7:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 7:17PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
Care to enlighten me? I've read about 75% of Engadget's news about the iPhone but haven't seen how this works. . . . ]]>Oct 22nd 2007 7:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/ You buy the phone and walk of of the store with your unopened phone still in the shrink wrap. It is up to you to activate the phone using itunes at which point you sign up for the contract with AT&T (or renew as the case may be). If you buy a phone to unlock you don't sign up for the contract with AT&T (by not using itunes to activate the phone) and use a 3rd party activating solution.]]>Oct 22nd 2007 7:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 7:38PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
and fyi, an unlocked iphone can be found for $1100 in asia. not bad huh?]]>Oct 22nd 2007 8:19PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 23rd 2007 6:52AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 23rd 2007 12:08AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
Irrelevant comments FTL.]]>Oct 23rd 2007 12:23AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
The TIFF hack is well known and the only way in at the moment, so if they were taking a hard stance on the issue they would have patched it the next day.]]>Oct 22nd 2007 7:25PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 8:15PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 7:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
And that very large percentage of the world's population that's living outside the U.S. can _only_ get the iPhone hacked and unlocked. Those are the people - I amongst them - that buy iPhones and unlock them.

Not the three people who actually think T-Mob is better than AT&T. ]]>Oct 22nd 2007 8:00PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 8:58PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
If it wasn't for the unlockers, they wouldn't have reached the 1 million mark.

Those dirty, stickin' unlockers! Helping Apple to reach their sales goals. Damn them to Hades!
]]>Oct 22nd 2007 7:32PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
...sure, they wouldn't have hit 1m *in the 4th quarter* if you ignore the tail end of the 3rd quarter when the product launched... but that's sort of splitting hairs.]]>Oct 22nd 2007 7:49PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
...sure, they wouldn't have hit 1m *in the 4th quarter* if you ignore the tail end of the 3rd quarter when the product launched... but that's sort of splitting hairs.]]>Oct 22nd 2007 7:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 8:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
Woopeedeedoo!!!]]>Oct 22nd 2007 8:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/"Just think of how many MORE would have been sold if Apple wasn't a as$Hole about locking and 3rd party apps!!"


But poor AT&T wouldn't get much out of unlocked Iphones, would they. Thats why they lock them dowm]]>Oct 22nd 2007 8:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 8:37PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
Let me see if I understand...I want to violate my warranty; hack the phone so I could use T-Mobile (The only other GSM provider in the US). Who (by the way) leases most of their network from AT&T. Now once I'm on T-Mobile, I could sign up for their $39.99 Total Internet Data Plan + $39.99 myFaves 300 talk plan....Instead of AT&T $59.99 iPhone plan that includes talk/data. I think the 250K phones are just a bunch of noise in the system that dominates chat rooms like this. If folks are using this phone in other markets besides the US; I don't see how AT&T will care. That's the US Market view. Internationally...I see your point a little clearer. However, if the manufacturer (Apple) wants to limit their user base. That's their business. Countless products (Electronics and others) do exactly the same thing.]]>Oct 22nd 2007 9:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/Oct 22nd 2007 10:16PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/
Plus, I just love to hear these AT&T users whine about international roaming. About how that can't afford to even check their email and end up with a 500-page bill. When I've traveled to Austria and Germany, data roaming costs me nothing. I'm not tethering--just checking email and low-bandwidth sites.

Where I live, t-mo has excellent coverage and roaming is free (even on AT&T in the boonies), to boot. My only complaint is that there phone lineup isn't all that exciting or competitively priced. That's where the iPhone fits into the puzzle.

So, there are definite advantages of using t-mo vs. at&t.]]>Oct 23rd 2007 12:26AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/apple-estimates-250-000-iphones-sold-to-sim-unlockers/To be precise Apple didn't refund its customers it just gave them store credits. Therefore Apple's revenue = 1.39M x profit per iPhone @ $199 / $399 + 1.14M * revenue from AT&T per iPhone + $100 * Early Adopters (NOT Refunded) + $100 * Early Adopters (Store Revenue).
I think the last 2 items have can easily offset any potential Loss of Revenue because of unlocking.
]]>Oct 22nd 2007 10:02PM