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The Engadget Podcast Ep 15: Everything But the Truth

Transcript of this episode:

Terrence:
Hello Nerds and welcome to the Engadget podcast. I am your host, Terrence O'Brien. Joining me this week to my right, senior editor, Devindra Hardawar.
 
Devindra:
Hello. I'm dead right now.
 
Terrence:
You're dead right now?
 
Devindra:
Yes.
 
Terrence:
We're essentially having a séance?
 
Devindra:
Yeah.
 
Terrence:
Awesome. And, to my left Reviews Editor, Cherlynn Low.
 
Cherlynn:
Hi, I'm kind of psychic.
 
Terrence:
You're kind of psychic?
 
Cherlynn:
Kinda. I know when it's raining.
 
Terrence:
You know when it's raining and that makes you psychic?
 
Cherlynn:
Mm-hmm (affirmative) That's perfectly-
 
Devindra:
I think animals can do that, Cherlynn.
 
Terrence:
Yeah.
 
Cherlynn:
You're an animal.  I'm not going to be aggressive today, so I take that back. You're not an animal.
 
Devindra:
Wait, I like the mantra. It's been like ten seconds ...
 
Cherlynn:
Today I'm going to be really nice.
 
Devindra:
Okay.
 
Terrence:
I'm going to be nice. I'm not going to be aggressive.
 
Cherlynn:
It's going to be tough. It's going to be a tough one today.
 
Terrence:
Just hold it together.
 
Devindra:
Four more years, guys, four more years.
 
Terrence:
As promised, this week is going to be a little bit more normal. If you joined us last week, it was a bit of a downer ...
 
Devindra:
Yeah.
 
Terrence:
... But, I think an essential conversation. This week we're back to a more regular show for you and in that spirit, let's just jump right into it and start with flame wars, guys, as we do every week. For those of you who don't know how this works, we're going to debate the biggest topics and stories of the week. Devindra and Cherlynn, you'll have twenty seconds to make your opening statements at which point I'll allow a brief rebuttal and then I'll declare a winner. We've got a leaderboard, disc stuff that's going to happen, C.E.S. we'll figure it out, don't worry.
 
Cherlynn:
Can I just ... Something ... Can you move the buzzer here?
 
Terrence:
Move the buzzer here?
 
Cherlynn:
So I can touch it.
 
Devindra:
No. You're not ...
 
Terrence:
I don't know if I want to do that.
 
Devindra:
You're not in charge, Cherlynn. You're a contestant.
 
Cherlynn:
I'm going to download a buzzer ...
 
 
What? That's good, that's good.
 
Terrence:
This way it is near you but should I decide you're out of line, I can just give the hand a little slap.
 
Cherlynn:
I'm never out of line.
 
Devindra:
Hmm.
 
Cherlynn:
I'm so sweet. Oh my God. Yeah.
 
Terrence:
Let's do this. We've got some interesting things to talk about this week. Let's start out with some pure gadget talk to make the O.G.s out there a little bit happy, a little bit more comfortable. I'm sure they're still reeling from an hour and a half of ...
 
Devindra:
Let's cleanse our palates with some gadgets.
 
Terrence:
By the time this goes up ... This episode goes up, our review of the Surface Studio should be live, I believe. We're not going to dig too deep into it this week. I think it's sort of interesting that we've seen this move increasingly towards lap tops and this is sort of the odd man out. All of a sudden, somebody's pushing ... I mean, even Apple has kind of given up on the iMac at this point to a certain extent. It very rarely gets updates, at least anything significant.
 
Devindra:
Right.
 
Terrence:
My question to you guys is; Does the Surface Studio actually make all in ones relevant again? Or should everyone just keep buying laptops? Devindra.
 
Devindra:
Yes.
 
Terrence:
Let's start with you.
 
Devindra:
I think it does make all in ones relevant for a certain audience. That audience of creatives who needs a lot of power and bigger screens than just the typical laptop. I like what Microsoft is doing with the Studio, check out my review but hopefully it'll inspire other companies too because all in ones can be really interesting.
 
Terrence:
Cherlynn, your rebuttal?
 
Cherlynn:
All in ones have been around for years and years now. They've never really done all that well especially when they're not made by Apple. I think the Surface Studio has a lot of interesting features going for it but it also applies to a very niche audience who can really get away with a mini PC that is really powerful and their own big monitor that they can customize themselves. Done.
 
Devindra:
Done!
 
Terrence:
That is one of the first times you've come in under time.
 
Cherlynn:
That's not true. Go look at our archives. I'm amazing. I'm really good at this.
 
Devindra:
I don't know.
 
Terrence:
What kind of professional is this really for, Devindra? Who is served better by this giant all in one than by, say, a pretty powerful laptop.
 
Devindra:
It depends on what you're looking for, I guess. If you want value, yes, it probably does make more sense just to get a mini PC and a monitor and put a whole system together.  What amazes me about this thing is its single device. You just plug it into the wall and boom, instant, powerful computer with a nice screen. I think artists, especially people with very specific aesthetic needs and don't want all that clutter, something like this could be really useful. We're getting some great hardware now that can make all in ones a lot more interesting moving forward. I like the bendy screen. That stuff is cool. It works well.
 
Cherlynn:
Did he just run out of time there? Something just started beeping.
 
Terrence:
I apparently failed to mute-
 
Cherlynn:
Why  I'm sorry, I'm being nice today.
 
Terrence:
I failed to mute my laptop.
 
Devindra:
Okay.
 
Cherlynn:
Okay.
 
Devindra:
Yes, silence. Phones off.
 
Cherlynn:
I got my own buzzer, guys! You no longer yield the power ... or wield the power.
 
Devindra:
The power! This is not good.
 
Terrence:
This is going to go terribly.
 
Cherlynn:
I was paying attention to half of what you said because that buzzer thing ... But yeah.
 
Devindra:
Cherlynn was just looking off at the distance.
 
Terrence:
You're very good at this.
 
Cherlynn:
Listen, I wasn't even supposed to be on today. I blame you.
 
Terrence:
That's very true, you were a last minute substitution.
 
Cherlynn:
I'm not even wanted on this show, most of the time so it's okay. I think, like I said and Devindra makes my points for me. It's got a very specific, niche audience. IOS ...
 
Devindra:
I said it. I'm not denying it.
 
Cherlynn:
I know, I know. I'm saying you were making my point for me. It's not necessary ... The question is that they're relevant again and if we should be buying something else to replace it. There are a lot of perfect substitutes out there that could work ... You can get your home PC, all the PCs are looking better these days. They're smaller, still equally powerful or even more so and you can hook up all the peripherals you want.
 
Devindra:
They're more complex, is the thing.
 
Cherlynn:
Of course.
 
Devindra:
There's more simplicity to an all in one where you just get the thing, you plug it into the wall-
 
Cherlynn:
But you're so limited, you can't really customize it for the kind of applications you want.  [crosstalk 00:06:48]
 
Devindra:
You can't really customize it.  There's powerful hardware in there. We haven't even mentioned the screen. The screen goes down, it bends down with one finger.
 
Cherlynn:
That is cool.
 
Devindra:
It's insane.
 
Cherlynn:
But I'd rather get a digitizer and attach it to my PC.
 
Devindra:
That's the thing, it's definitely just a start. It's a much stronger start than Microsoft's first surface.
 
Cherlynn:
Oh yeah.
 
Devindra:
Or T laptop which was a piece of trash. This is just like, great and it's really interesting to see how they're upgrading what they've learned to. The hinges from the Surface Kickstand directly led to the Surface Book's hinge which now has led to this crazy 80 spring system where you can basically maneuver a- Come on Cherlynn! Maneuver a 12 pound screen ...
 
Cherlynn:
I can't help I'm popular. I'm sorry.
 
Terrence:
There is such a thing as do not disturb.
 
Devindra:
Cherlynn took out her phone, flicked the mute button and it's still making noise.
 
Cherlynn:
I had to unmute it because I wanted to make the buzzer sound but anyway, I'm sorry for interrupting you like you did me 100 times.
 
Devindra:
Aw man. Why am I even here?
 
Cherlynn:
The hinge is cool.
 
Devindra:
It's a specific thing. It's not like it's world changing. And the dial is really cool too.
 
Cherlynn:
I was going to say, that's the only thing that looks really cool to me. Again, I don't like having to reach across my desk. I don't like having to stand up and move the hinge down. Oh sorry-
 
Devindra:
You don't have to stand up.
 
Cherlynn:
Do you not have to stand up to kind of shift it down?
 
Devindra:
It's easy enough for a five year old to maneuver the screen which is kind of insane.
 
Cherlynn:
Okay, I would like to see that, whenever you have a five year old, I would plunk them in front of a Surface Studio.
 
Terrence:
I'm kind of excited to play with the studio at this point. I'm going to give this round to Devindra.
 
Cherlynn:
Of course. Can I just say I claimed the pro at first. This is actually my win. I actually won this.
 
Terrence:
I do think this is relevant to a niche of people but it is finally at least making all in ones again relevant to somebody, anybody.
 
Cherlynn:
Do you think the competitors will come in and try to make a Surface Studio viable?
 
Devindra:
That is part of the point, right? That's what happened with the Surface laptops and everything so ...
 
Cherlynn:
Okay.
 
Devindra:
There's that company, is it Aura or something? They stuck a desktop CPU and a desktop graphics card in a 34 inch ultra wide all in one. That thing sounds insane. It's actually even cheaper than the Surface Studio so it's crazy what people are doing now.
 
Terrence:
What is the starting price for the Surface Studio by the way?
 
Devindra:
$3000, buddy.
 
Cherlynn:
See ... Relevant, my butt. I mean, hi. I'm super nice. Yup. Anyway, moving on or whatever. I'm going to win the next two anyway.
 
Terrence:
Let's talk about the Mac Book Pro. Originally, we were going to spend a little bit more time on this, just a little inside baseball. Unfortunately, Dana Wollman, who did the review had to bail on the podcast last minute. We're relegating this to Flame Wars since none of us have actually spent much time with it, I don't think.
 
Cherlynn:
I've played with it a little when she was playing with it. The touch bar looks cool.
 
Terrence:
Yeah. One of the things that's most interesting to me is not just that it has this touch bar but that it basically got rid of all the ports. It did away with a lot of things that people relied on a professional grade laptop for. My question is; Is this Apple just doing what it does and being ahead of the curve and looking to the future or is this them actively flipping off their customers? Cherlynn, I'm going to let you go first here.
 
Devindra:
The queen of flipping off people.
 
Cherlynn:
Can I? Anyway, I am allowed to?
 
Terrence:
Yeah, sure.
 
Cherlynn:
Apple does not actively flip off it's customers. In its past and its history, as much as I hate to say this, they've been very thoughtful about the products they've made and really accommodated a lot of different use cases. And this case does seem like they're ...
 
 
No way, no! You started it way too early because I was still asking if I could flip people off.
 
Terrence:
That's not my fault that you wasted precious time asking whether or not you could give people the finger.
 
Cherlynn:
You didn't say go! Oh, stick a finger ... Anyway, can I just? Five seconds?
 
 
Years from now, we're going to look back on this and be like, "Oh what was the big deal we were making?"
 
Terrence:
Right on track!
 
Devindra:
I love how that's always the argument for Apple doing terrible things. Years from now!
 
 
I think this is a terrible move. You can't even plug in the new iPhone into this computer because Apple doesn't include the cables. It's really stupid, in general.
 
Cherlynn:
Am I supposed to talk now?
 
Terrence:
You can take the rest of his time.
 
Devindra:
Finer debate!
 
Cherlynn:
I'm not an Apple fan girl.
 
Devindra:
Right, right. You're the one who asked for a PC when you came to Engadget.
 
Cherlynn:
Yes, I am the one person that asked for a PC.
 
Terrence:
Literally.
 
Cherlynn:
I don't like not being able to access everything that I want to but I think, over time, after playing with more MacBooks and Apple devices, I've found them to be more well rounded in general. I still don't think the argument here is that they're flipping off the customers. They're not doing something just because they can. They're doing something because they actively believe this is the way it's going to be in the future. If that's the argument here, I win.
 
Devindra:
They have no evidence for that, really.
 
Cherlynn:
No really?
 
Devindra:
Completely shifting ...
 
Cherlynn:
Every single phone I see now is USB C.
 
Devindra:
The touch bar. We're talking about the touch bar. The touch bar is a garbage bar.
 
Cherlynn:
That's not true.
 
Devindra:
They're trying to move towards a new mode of computing which is interesting, because I think Microsoft is doing the same thing with the Surface Studio's dial but they're two different approaches. Microsoft is trying to empower us to do what we've always done but do it better and give us more tools to refer us to do that kind of work.
 
Cherlynn:
You love Microsoft.
 
Devindra:
What Apple is doing is saying, "Hey, we don't like this anymore so do this." It's forcing a tide to change direction and there's going to be some resistance to that and it may not always work. All of Apple's choices haven't been perfect.
 
Cherlynn:
Right, I agree with that. Your thing here is that they're changing things because they want to because it makes sense for them and not because it makes sense-
 
Devindra:
It's not consumer friendly.
 
Cherlynn:
When they changed stuff from the however many pin charging port now to the lightning, did you kick up a big fuss about that?
 
Devindra:
That's an Apple standard though. I don't care about that. That could've been USB C. I kicked up a ... I was annoyed because they should've supported USB C then and now they have lightning on their phones and USB C on their laptops. Hey, who probably ...
 
Cherlynn:
Right now, there's definitely a mismatch but again, I don't think Apple is doing that just because ... For sure there is some benefits to-
 
Devindra:
Headphone jack. Iphone 7.
 
Cherlynn:
The headphone jack thing ... Wait, that's not what we're arguing here.
 
Devindra:
It's sentimentality, right?
 
 
The only reason they did that was to make the stupid, the Haptic sensor, the touch, whatever you call it, make that bigger. As we've seen, it's been ...[crosstalk 00:13:58]
 
Cherlynn:
The engine? And also a little bit of the water resistance.
 
Devindra:
Maybe. There've been water resistant phones with headphone jacks.
 
Cherlynn:
Of course. It's totally doable, yeah.
 
Devindra:
Apple made that change to make the touch engine bigger and better and who cares? It didn't actually ... It's not fundamentally changing how we're using our phones, unfortunately.
 
Cherlynn:
I think they had to take a risk with the headphone jack there because they're also sensing that the time now is probably better than any other time because Bluetooth headphones are finally reaching the stage where they're popular. I don't think they're ubiquitous but most of people have them. You see them on planes everywhere. Everyone's wearing them so this is ... a little early but they've probably considered the fact that the market's almost ready for this.
 
Devindra:
Right now, talking about people wearing them on planes, right? If you're stuck on an airplane and you want to watch an in flight movie and all you've got is your stupid air pod lightning headphones, you're screwed. You got no option.
 
Cherlynn:
Yeah, I've made that argument.
 
Devindra:
Other than the cheap, whatever the airline's going to give you.
 
Cherlynn:
You're talking about use case, I'm talking about Apple's thinking. I think that's the argument here.
 
Devindra:
Right, right, right.  We don't know what Apple's thinking, all we know is how it affects us and it's crap.
 
Cherlynn:
I totally know what Apple is thinking.
 
Terrence:
Here's one question and then we'll move on to the next bit which is ...
 
Cherlynn:
Which is going to be so exciting.
 
Terrence:
Yeah, I'm pumped about it.
 
Cherlynn:
I'm excited for the next one.
 
Devindra:
So exciting.
 
Terrence:
Maybe Apple isn't actively deciding to tell all their customers to go fuck themselves but if these machines are catered towards a professional class, in theory ...
 
Cherlynn:
Which ones? The MacBook Pros?
 
Terrence:
The MacBook Pros. Let's leave the iPhones out of it.
 
Devindra:
Right, right, right.
 
Terrence:
Let's even leave the touch bar out of it and focus purely on some of the smaller changes. If these devices are catered towards a professional crowd, which the name suggests and which I think Apple has always pitched them for creative professionals, these are people who have built up a rather expensive array of accessories and goods. If you're talking about a professional photographer-
 
Cherlynn:
Yep.
 
Terrence:
That person is relying on a camera that probably takes photos and dumps them to an SD card and now that they've removed the SD card from the machine, you know have to have an adapter and you have to have an adapter that's USB C which, I don't know that I've actually seen a card adapter that's USB C yet which means that you need also an adapter for the adapter.
 
Devindra:
Yep. Dongle life. All the way.
 
Terrence:
Even if their goals are not nefarious, doesn't that sort of suggest that they don't care?
 
Cherlynn:
I don't think that they don't care, and I can't speak for them. First of all, if you're talking about the professional audience, they're the ones that have the ability to go and they probably already do have a bunch of accessories right? They probably already have a dock that could wire up some way or other.
 
 
I know, Devindra's looking at me, like he's, oh, you're such a bitch, I hate you but I hate you more. That's my argument.
 
Devindra:
Okay.
 
Cherlynn:
They're more willing and able to buy more accessories, not that that's necessarily a good thing. I think the argument here that if you're saying professional people need all these, have all these other equipment that needs pairing to the laptop, they'll go out and buy it. It's for their work. They'll expense it.
 
Devindra:
I don't even know if that's the issue. To me it is more about fundamental changes like; We're removing function keys and replacing it with something that doesn't quite make sense and is honestly a little ... Just seeing an Apple person demo DJ-ing on the touch bar, I'm like ... You're embarrassing yourselves right now.
 
Cherlynn:
I'm still very torn over the touch bar, now that I've seen it in person and I've seen Dana play with it, it seems cool. It looks really interesting. I'm not sure what the use cases would be but again ... Like with the Lenovo YogaBook, right? The thing was kind of a dumpster-fy for typing but it was very cool. It was innovative and you kind of have to give credit to people who want to innovate.
 
Devindra:
I have one too. I have a buzzer too.
 
Cherlynn:
Uh-huh.
 
Terrence:
Everyone just got a buzzer.
 
Devindra:
Yeah.
 
Cherlynn:
All right, we're done. We're done! Give me the point now.
 
Terrence:
Yeah, no.
 
Cherlynn:
You're fired.
 
Terrence:
Devindra is taking this one.
 
Devindra:
I'm going to sweep this!
 
Cherlynn:
This is because I gave Gorman no points the last time I was on, right?
 
Devindra:
Oh man. That's a pretty not smart move, Cherlynn.
 
Terrence:
Yeah ... He was ...
 
Cherlynn:
I did. I gave Trout all the points and now Trout is at the top of the leaderboard and I hate myself.
 
Devindra:
Oh man.
 
Terrence:
He probably hates you more for that.
 
Cherlynn:
Trout or Gorman? Trout? Really? Why? Trout loves me, please.
 
Terrence:
Because whoever wins is going to get saddled with C.E.S. stage stuff.
 
Cherlynn:
Yes.
 
Terrence:
And whoever loses is going to get saddled with C.E.S. stage stuff.
 
Cherlynn:
I think Trout likes being saddled.
 
Terrence:
You definitely made Mona's day, I know that.
 
Cherlynn:
Yes! Okay, because she was the winner?
 
Terrence:
She is now in second and she's like; I'm safe and I'm never going to come back on-
 
Cherlynn:
We all know Mo-mo is my O.G., so ...
 
Terrence:
She's not coming back on the show until after C.E.S..
 
Cherlynn:
Anyway. All right, fine. I'm a gracious loser. I told you I'm being nice today.
 
Devindra:
You're the best loser. You're the best at being a loser.
 
Terrence:
Yeah.
 
Cherlynn:
You're a loser. Anyway.
 
Devindra:
I take that book.
 
Terrence:
Are we good?
 
Devindra:
Yeah.
 
Cherlynn:
Yeah, we're good. I'll only kill you after this.
 
Terrence:
Let's move on to our last topic in flame wars which is one, I know, Cherlynn is very excited to talk about.
 
Cherlynn:
I don't know why but it's so interesting!
 
Terrence:
This segment might get a little not safe for work, just warning.
 
Devindra:
We will talk about what ...
 
Terrence:
There is going to be discussion of ...
 
Devindra:
Private parts.
 
Terrence:
Sex organs, I believe is the word that ended up in our headlines for some reason.
 
Devindra:
That's a funny way of putting it.
 
Cherlynn:
Who wrote that again, I forget?
 
Devindra:
That was John.
 
Terrence:
Yeah, that would be John.
 
Cherlynn:
Excellent job.
 
Devindra:
It's a rough spot to be in.
 
Cherlynn:
I like sex organs. I think I like that.
 
Terrence:
I don't envy him having to write that headline.
 
Cherlynn:
That was beautiful.
 
Terrence:
Sony had to suspend a player from the PlayStation network for posting an image, a screenshot from Watchdog 2. The screenshot was of a woman lying on the ground that had a particularly graphic texture applied to her private parts.
 
Cherlynn:
I don't get why you guys say graphic texture. Why graphic texture?
 
Devindra:
You could actually see it.
 
Terrence:
This wasn't just a sterile ... She wasn't a Barbie ...
 
Devindra:
It wasn't a Barbie doll, which is what you usually see in video games, if you ever get to that part.
 
Terrence:
Flat maybe flesh colored ...
 
Cherlynn:
You mean like there was bumps and like texturey things that you can feel and imagine ...
 
Terrence:
There was visible labia.
 
Devindra:
Okay.
 
Cherlynn:
Okay, all right.
 
 
It was great, it was beautiful. I looked at it and Terrence was like, "Have you seen the picture?" And I was like, "Nah, let me look at it now."
 
Devindra:
Can that be the title of this podcast episode?
 
 
Visible labia.
 
Cherlynn:
Visible labia.
 
Devindra:
I'm sure that's a song.
 
Cherlynn:
That's a song somewhere.
 
Terrence:
Visible labia.
 
 
Let's begin with this question and then I'm sure we're going to get off the rails completely.
 
 
Devindra, was Sony right to suspend this player's account?
 
Devindra:
I have to argue this point; yes, Sony is right because Sony has to enforce all of its rules. Even something like this, even though it's the devs' faults, this person shared it and made it very public. Kind of violates their network standards.
 
Terrence:
Cherlynn.
 
Cherlynn:
You said it. It was Sony's own developers that made this image.
 
Devindra:
It was not Sony's developers.
 
Cherlynn:
Whatever the developers-
 
Devindra:
That's not how games work, Cherlynn. Sony does not make all the games.
 
Cherlynn:
Why does he keep encroaching on my time? If you cut me off now-
 
Devindra:
Reset it, reset it. Go, go, go.
 
Cherlynn:
It was not the player's fault that this was in the game so he didn't deserve to have his account suspended for just sharing what was in the game. What if he shared a screenshot of something else from the game, would he get suspended? No. This is just sharing his experience and making the game more popular. Done.
 
Terrence:
Devindra, your rebuttal.
 
Devindra:
I actually pretty much agree, I'm just arguing the point ...
 
Cherlynn:
Yeah, yeah. Welcome to my world the past two topics.
 
Terrence:
That's how this works, guys. This is an intellectual exercise. Somebody's got to play devil's advocate.
 
Devindra:
The thing is, Sony doesn't have all the context when something like this happens. Oh crap, there is a visible vagina being shared on our system. Ban the player, get it off. That's the first thing you know. You can't just wait for the context- oh, this is something Ubisoft put in. I think a censor, a network censor would look at it and be like, maybe they did something to hack this image in there too. You've got to enforce it first and then they were unbanned.  [crosstalk 00:22:54]
 
Cherlynn:
You're saying Sony's first instinct was someone made up a pornographic image and pretended and called in the watch dogs.
 
Devindra:
If I'm running a big network that there's a lot of kids on it, probably parents who'd probably be pissed off about their kids seeing something like this, that's the first thing I'd do. It may be not the right thing, but it's the safest thing to do.
 
Terrence:
Just real quick, I do think it's important to point out, the player was banned because he posted it to PlayStation network which doesn't have filters for adult content.
 
Devindra:
How else would it get there? Who knows?
 
Terrence:
It's not like he posted it on Twitter.
 
Cherlynn:
He did also post it on Twitter, which is great.
 
Terrence:
He did post it on Twitter.
 
Cherlynn:
People like me who don't have PSN accounts and therefore did not realize that Ubisoft is the one that left this in ... got to see it too.
 
Devindra:
Mr. Sony doesn't make all the games, Cherlynn.
 
Cherlynn:
I know!
 
Devindra:
I just want to point this out.
 
Cherlynn:
I know!
 
Terrence:
Mr. Sony?
 
Cherlynn:
Okay, Mr. Sony. [crosstalk 00:23:49]
 
Terrence:
Mr. PlayStation, Mr. Sony PlayStation.
 
Cherlynn:
I think I win this one because really Sony has no right to ban a player for posting screenshots, right? Come on, come on.
 
Devindra:
I agree.
 
Terrence:
I'm actually with you. I'm going to give Cherlynn this one. I don't want to move on just yet. I do want to dwell on this one for another minute or so.
 
Cherlynn:
Why because you haven't seen enough?
 
Terrence:
I don't have it up on my screen because ...
 
Cherlynn:
I wanted to have it up on my screen but now my computer for some reason is dead so ...
 
Terrence:
It won't come back on?
 
Cherlynn:
It's given up.
 
Terrence:
I do want to, before we move on, really briefly ... What was Ubisoft thinking?
 
Cherlynn:
Yeah.
 
Devindra:
Yeah.
 
Terrence:
What were the developers thinking? How did this make it into the game?
 
Cherlynn:
Also the circumstances in which you find this or the player found these and the graphic quality of everything, the fact that it wasn't a well tended to vagina. This is a woman who let herself go.
 
Devindra:
This is a developer who had way too much time on his hands. That's kind of what I think.
 
Cherlynn:
Can I just say this first? There is a bat symbol carved into her pubic hair.
 
Devindra:
Oh man. Of course there is.
 
Cherlynn:
This guy had some weird dreams. Or girl.
 
Devindra:
There's going to be some ...
 
Cherlynn:
Guy or girl developer.
 
Devindra:
The aftermath of all this is going to be interesting.
 
Cherlynn:
It's amazing.
 
Terrence:
If you do go find this picture, if you find it ...
 
Cherlynn:
You should! It's so cool!
 
Terrence:
Sure, do it out of morbid curiosity but this is not somebody who put porn vagina in here. This is like if you google vagina medical problems, this is the sort of images it's going to throw back at you.
 
Devindra:
Don't google that.
 
Cherlynn:
I think Terrence spends a lot of time googling that.
 
Terrence:
This poor woman needs to go to a clinic.
 
Cherlynn:
She really ... Yeah.
 
Devindra:
It's a weird fetish.
 
Cherlynn:
She looks like she was very abused. It made my morning.
 
Devindra:
Why were you happy that she-
 
Cherlynn:
Because I was having a really bad morning and then T showed me that and I was like, "Oh, I'm not that bad."
 
Terrence:
I did not show this to you. HR, I just want HR to know, I did not show this to you.
 
Devindra:
I'm going to hit the buzzer right now.
 
Cherlynn:
Terrence did not. I looked it up myself. Yeah, that's true.
 
Terrence:
I am not passing around pictures of video game vaginas at work.
 
Cherlynn:
Go look it up.
 
Devindra:
It is our job.
 
Cherlynn:
It's quite beautiful. It's a work of art. It spawned from the brains of someone who has not seen porn and that's great.
 
Terrence:
This person either doesn't know-
 
Devindra:
It's a very specific taste.
 
Cherlynn:
I think it's a message to someone actually.
 
Terrence:
Maybe this person was a former gynecologist or something.
 
Cherlynn:
Seen too much of these, probably.
 
Terrence:
Yeah, something really ... That person, whoever's did this is going to be fired. We can agree.
 
Devindra:
I hope so.
 
Cherlynn:
No!  Kudos to this person. I will be friends with this person.
 
Terrence:
No.
 
Devindra:
No, no.
 
 
And I worry for you Cherlynn.
 
Cherlynn:
Why wouldn't you want to be friends with someone who snuck something so cool into the game?
 
Devindra:
Oh man.
 
Terrence:
I don't know that it's cool.
 
Cherlynn:
It's not really cool.
 
Devindra:
It's kind of messed up.
 
Terrence:
It's actually kind of upsetting.
 
Cherlynn:
I guess it is kind of messed up. I guess.
 
Devindra:
I like that we've come full circle. You're aware-
 
Cherlynn:
I like when Terrence's first thing to me when we were discussing the topic was, "This is kind of horrifying." I was like, "Are you kidding me? This is great!"
 
 
You meant, the idea of this, yes. It is. That is horrifying.
 
Terrence:
Yeah. It's ...
 
Cherlynn:
I am not for sexual violence against women.
 
Devindra:
All right.
 
Terrence:
All right. And that is-
 
Devindra:
That's how we end this.
 
Cherlynn:
That's it.
 
Terrence:
Let's just move on.
 


Terrence:
Let's move on to Group Chat where we dissect some of the biggest stories of the week.  I think there is no story bigger this week or the last couple of weeks, or the last couple of months even, than Facebook and it's perpetual problem at this point with fake news. To be clear this isn't an issue specific to Facebook, it's just more prominent there. This is an issue across the entire internet; on Twitter, on Google. This is-
 
Devindra:
It may have cost an election. How about that?
 
Terrence:
I disagree with that to an extent. There are valid points on the people who make that argument, I just don't know that that's powerful enough to have swung the election.
 
Devindra:
I think in a typical race, maybe. It was so close that who knows? The announcement of the FBI looking into Hilary's emails again. We don't know how much that affected things? Any little bit could've swung it back and forth.
 
Terrence:
This is getting off topic.
 
Cherlynn:
Spiraling.
 
Terrence:
I will quickly say that I do spend a lot of my time listening to political podcasts, 538 and their multiple pod-casters are some of my favorite things in the world. My understanding is that while the popular vote was extremely close, in the swing states it wasn't like it was the sort of thing that was going to be swung by fake news. It probably wasn't swung by these email things. The people who decided to vote for Hilary Clinton had decided months and months ago and things just didn't shake out the way everybody expected for multitude of reasons.
 
Cherlynn:
So, fake news!
 
Terrence:
But fake news ... We talked about this before, a little bit. Let's start out with a really basic question which is; is it Facebook and Google's responsibility to filter this fake news out?
 
Devindra:
If they are trying to be our main sources of knowledge, I think so.
 
Cherlynn:
Yep.
 
Devindra:
It's tough to blame them for things other people post. They should have the technology to filter out the crap. Their services would be better if they're sharing better information.
 
Cherlynn:
Google's had this technology in place already. They've had time on site as an indicator of how good a site is, as a measure. They could tweak that to make it a better engine to figure that out. Facebook needs a lot more work.
 
Devindra:
Google has always cared more about it's curation of how it handles news. Facebook has taken more of a hands off approach because they want people to share what they're going to share. They don't want to be responsible for it. At the same time, Facebook is a media organization at this point even though they want to deny it. They can't stop what people are sharing but they can kind of control what shows up on their trending lists and stuff like that.
 
Terrence:
Does that speak slightly to the differences in the kinds of services those two companies provide though?
 
Devindra:
For sure.
 
Terrence:
Google as a search organization has a vested interest in acting as a filter and a gateway whereas Facebook is primarily about the sharing of information between networks of friends.
 
Devindra:
Even if it's garbage being shared, that's more money in Facebook's pockets. They generally haven't had a reason to stop it, whereas Google has. I think we're seeing that transition now of Facebook looking at itself and thinking it has to do better.
 
Cherlynn:
I think there's a difference between trash articles your friends share that might not necessarily be real versus the ones that show up in the "What's Trending" or in your feed because they plant stuff there too. That's the kind of stuff that they should be monitoring. I know it's a huge scope, there's a lot they should be looking at. There's a lot of fake sites out there.
 
 
I had a question though which was; what do you define as fake news? We're not talking "The Onion" here.
 
Devindra:
Right, not "The Onion" but more like falsehoods.
 
Terrence:
No.
 
Devindra:
You're ... conspiracy theories, falsehoods, things that are just ...
 
Terrence:
Even just like misleading ... Like infowars on the conspiracy theory side, Breitbart on the right, occupy Democrats on the left, stuff that is intentionally misleading.
 
Cherlynn:
Propaganda?
 
Terrence:
Yeah. I think that's ... Some of it's outright falsehoods. Some of it's not just propaganda but some of it's like ... There will be a link to this document in the description and I think it's something everyone should read. There is this growing list of misleading websites. Included on there are sites like "The Onion" just in case you don't understand satire.
 
Cherlynn:
Yeah.
 
Devindra:
Right, right.
 
Terrence:
Some of these places make a business out of sharing, not just propaganda, but stories that are blatantly false and they do it for the purposes of churning outrage. There was a recent story, I can't remember the name of the service that ended up publishing it. They posted this video saying that it was video of anti-Trump protesters attacking a man at a gas station and ran the story with this video. It took all of about five minutes for somebody to do some googling and find out that this video was several years old and was of a homeless man being beaten by random people. It had nothing to do with the election.
 
Cherlynn:
This happened with actual conflict zones in the past too. Someone's repurposed an image of a whole other bombing and said this was like, Paris or something. You know what I mean? Fake news has been a problem for a while now. The thing is, how should Facebook define it? It's so subjective.
 
 
It kind of reminds me of the question we talked about earlier whether Peter Theil should be removed from the board of Facebook. If someone like that isn't on the board or isn't in the party that decides what fake news is, we're going to get a very certain direction leaning sense of what kind of news is out there, right?
 
Devindra:
Right, yeah, yeah.
 
Cherlynn:
If you're calling something that is very right leaning a fake news site, then all you're going to get is everything that's blue-ish.
 
Devindra:
I don't even know if it's about left or right. It's more about what is whose skimming process.
 
Cherlynn:
It plays into it, I think.
 
Devindra:
Occupy Democrats is the same thing for the left.
 
Terrence:
Yeah.
 
Devindra:
There are a ton of ultra liberal organizations-
 
Cherlynn:
Making stuff up.
 
Devindra:
Doing the same thing. It's more about trying to neutralize bad information in general. Bad information doesn't have any political leaning, it's just bad information.
 
Cherlynn:
Right. I get that but how ... There are a lot of sites that play fast and loose with that but are still reputable news organizations.
 
Terrence:
You have places like MSNBC and Fox News which have their clear ideological preferences.
 
Devindra:
Yeah.
 
Cherlynn:
Right.
 
Terrence:
Both do occasionally make questionable arguments based on questionable interpretations of facts but I do think that both of them, in general are fact based.
 
Devindra:
Yeah.
 
Terrence:
With rare exceptions, Shaun Hannity being a pretty glaring one. Most of their reporting is fact based even if it's fed through a very specific lens.
 
Cherlynn:
You're saying that stuff labeled as news should come from actual news organizations that have actual reporters like us doing fact checking and stuff like that. If that's the case, I get it but there's so much out there. That's what I'm saying, it's so hard to define what fake news is.
 
Devindra:
It's hard, it's hard.
 
Cherlynn:
There's so much out there.
 
Devindra:
Facebook is a multi-billion dollar company.
 
Cherlynn:
Of course.
 
Devindra:
They could do it. They just got to do the work.
 
Cherlynn:
They're not giving it away.
 
Devindra:
It's the whole thing of them firing human editors from Feed and whatever and relying on the algorithm. Maybe we can't rely on the algorithms to figure this stuff out.
 
Terrence:
Two questions around that real quick. One is, you're talking about them being able to filter out stuff in the trending news feed. How much good do you think that's actually going to do? How much of this spread of misinformation is specifically due to this stuff cropping up in the trending news feed and how much of that is due simply to these little bubbles that we form, that we kind of talked about in the past, just sharing this information amongst ourselves?
 
Devindra:
You can't do much about a private group that's like, "Look at this meme. It's so right. Everything I thought about Obama is true." People do that. That's just how we kind of exchange information. That's who information went viral before the internet. What Facebook can do is take control of it's broader things, especially when it comes to ads and stuff that show up in your feed as well. Those are things they can do better about.
 
Cherlynn:
Which means there's not really a real solution here for things that are trending news, right?
 
Devindra:
The solution is they do something about it and right now they're not.
 
Cherlynn:
They'd look at the sources and they'd blacklist certain publications?
 
Terrence:
My questions is how effective do you expect that to be though? Is most of the spread due to it cropping up in these trending things or is it just that everybody likes to share the stuff that makes them outraged and agrees with their worldview.
 
Devindra:
That's human nature and kind of how it works. We've seen things where a story that ends up on trending will within an hour, have like tens of thousands, perhaps even millions of impressions ... To reduce that sort of thing, that's the least they could do. At some point, I do think it'd be cool to see almost like a truth meter or some sort of validity meter- [crosstalk 00:36:49]
 
Cherlynn:
I actually like that idea.
 
Terrence:
They should partner with Politifact and have a truth-o-meter on every article.
 
Cherlynn:
That would be a lot of work but that's really interesting.
 
Devindra:
A lot of work, but we've got to do it.
 
Cherlynn:
That would keep the organic nature of trending still intact but at the same time show you ... That's a lot of work.
 
Terrence:
It is a lot of work. I also-
 
Devindra:
Let's go upstairs. Facebook is right upstairs.
 
Cherlynn:
Yeah, hey guys!
 
Terrence:
I doubt how effective that would be, unfortunately. I think especially on the right, you've seen this kind of fight against the idea fact checking.
 
Devindra:
That's the bigger problem, right?
 
Terrence:
Discussed this last week, a little bit. If you go look at Breitbart, Breitbart runs an active fact checking of the fact checkers which is 99.9% of the time objectively wrong.
 
Devindra:
The big problem now is there's a war on facts, there's a war on truth, there's a war on reality. In the end, maybe the stuff won't have that much of an effect but at the very least these are big companies, they have to try. They have to do something.
 
 
It's sort of like Facebook and Twitter and harassment. You're not going to stop harassment by having more filtering tools-
 
Terrence:
You have to try.
 
Devindra:
It's a start. Yeah.
 
Terrence:
In covering the story this week, we've kind of seen that Facebook has been a little bit reticent to really tackle the problem head on. How much of this do you think has to do with the blow back of liberal bias that came from their human editors in the trendings.
 
Devindra:
It's probably all related to it too, right? There's that story from Gizmodo too about them being afraid of the conservatives. I think that's pretty much it. Peter Theil's on their board. That sort of thing has an effect.
 
Cherlynn:
I wonder what they're afraid of though. Are they afraid people will shut down their Facebook accounts and not use it? Or just call them out in public?
 
Devindra:
Probably not. It's bad press. You don't want bad press.
 
Cherlynn:
But this is bad press.
 
Devindra:
Especially among the big, powerful organized group.
 
 
This is bad press among nerdy intellectuals who actually care about things like facts. They can ignore us because we have no political power. We weren't able to elect our candidate into office. They have to be afraid of the people running the country. I also wonder how much Theil being on the board has an effect there.
 
Terrence:
Yeah.
 
Devindra:
He helped make Facebook what it is and Zuckerburg owes a certain amount of debt to that guy.
 
Terrence:
Does having him on the board though, inoculate them at least a little bit from accusations of liberal bias if they were to try and tackle it or do you think it's just not even an issue?
 
Devindra:
It doesn't ... If you're going to do something like this, you just have to do it and accept the blow back. That's just how it has to go.
 
Cherlynn:
To me, it's just so much speculation that's why I don't want to say, "They're afraid of the conservatives hating on them so much, that's why they're not doing this."
 
Devindra:
What we're hearing is that that's what they are saying.
 
Cherlynn:
It's been reported that people inside Facebook are saying that.
 
Devindra:
A lot of engineers too thought it was crap, what Facebook were saying about how they were managing this. Like they weren't aware it was a problem.
 
Cherlynn:
Certainly, they probably a lot of liberal people.
 
Terrence:
Yeah, you're a silicon valley focused ... They're in a liberal haven, that's fine.
 
Cherlynn:
That's probably why everyone ...
 
Terrence:
It is what it is. I think as long as you understand going into something like that, what you're getting. It's pretty easy to try to see through some of that stuff.
 
Devindra:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)
 
Cherlynn:
Man.
 
Terrence:
Considering that, do you guys have any concerns about letting companies like that be the arbiter and the gatekeeper of what is true and what isn't?
 
Devindra:
I have a big problem with Facebook controlling so much of the internet. That's my ... I've been saying this for years and years now. Like the Borg, they've just absorbed more and more facets of the internet. A lot of people don't browse the internet, they browse Facebook and that's where they get to the news. The whole thing about Facebook having news articles within itself. They're breaking down the freedom of the internet. I have a problem with it but this is where we are now.
 
Cherlynn:
I also think that that's shifting a little bit. I used to depend solely on Facebook for my sources of information and news but now I ... Partly because of where I work now and I'm old. I just don't go to Facebook all that much anymore. I'm not looking at my feed anymore.
 
 
I think the generation after us, as much as they look at Facebook a lot are slowly shifting away from it too. I think Facebook is also slightly afraid of that. Maybe they'll do something better to change that but incendiary information can only help them get more.
 
Devindra:
Reddit had the same problem too. They knew they had a troll problem but that troll problem made the money.
 
Cherlynn:
As much as I'm uncomfortable with Facebook owning it, I don't think they have that much longer to be as powerful as they are now. I think Google's going to be the most powerful.
 
Devindra:
Yeah, yeah.
 
Cherlynn:
In terms of controlling what's on the web. They're literally the index of the web right now. If you're not on Google, you're not on the web.
 
Terrence:
Does that give you any cause for concern or any pause?
 
Cherlynn:
Mostly yes for Facebook because ...
 
Terrence:
Not for Google?
 
Cherlynn:
Google ... Maybe I'm naïve. They seem to be doing a little bit better in terms of ... Sorry. Siri is listening today ... Google seems to be a little bit better as a company at addressing issues and being more forward and moving faster on things, it feels to me at least. Versus Facebook which has so much on its plate right now.
 
Devindra:
Google has been aware, even from the beginning of its role, in what it's doing and processing good and bad information.
 
Cherlynn:
Even as a journalist from my interactions with Google PR versus ... I don't have a lot of interactions with Facebook PR but Google PR has been very up front, like when I wrote the Google assistant piece, they knew ... They anticipated that I was going to ask about the gender thing. They were like, "Oh we understand that this is a thing. We have plans to work on it, even though there's no non-female voice right now." They are aware of these things and seem to-
 
Terrence:
They were out ahead of it.
 
Cherlynn:
Yeah, they seem to be working on it too. I think that makes me more comfortable.
 
Devindra:
That's Google's job, right? To make sense and clarify and clean up the information on the web.
 
Cherlynn:
Which, who gave them that job? But yeah ...
 
Devindra:
I mean ...
 
Terrence:
They started doing it.
 
Cherlynn:
They gave it themselves, yeah.
 
Devindra:
It's because the internet had no real index of sites before and [crosstalk 00:43:02] the stuff. Facebook didn't have that. Facebook's only goal was to help people talk to each other and the problem is, people are terrible. Now they have to deal with that.
 
Terrence:
I guess the question is now; what do we do? How do we address this problem in a fundamental way? Not just saying, "Facebook has to reign in its trending topics." But what can we practically do to clean up this spread of misinformation, keep it under control, shut down ... Not shut down but at least hide these fake news sites without trampling on the idea of the internet as a free and open exchange of ideas.
 
Cherlynn:
I liked Devindra's idea a lot. I think that some kind of label or meter on every site, if that's eventually possible
 
Devindra:
I don't know if it's on every site. Facebook could do it on Facebook.
 
Cherlynn:
Right. On Facebook but you have the icons showing the securities of every site. We could potentially ... It would be a lot of work again ...
 
Devindra:
Google has ratings and other information in its search results about things. Not exactly around truthiness but you know ... They could do something like that.
 
Cherlynn:
They're able to embed such information and should be able to in future ... Facebook might be harder.
 
Terrence:
You started getting a little bit of an echo right there but that's okay.
 
Cherlynn:
It's haunted in here.
 
Devindra:
Because he came out of the control room.
 
Terrence:
What we kind of end up on, unfortunately is that as much as it would be nice for Facebook to try and get this under control and Google to try and get this under control, and Twitter to try and get this under control, there is only so much they can do, right?
 
Devindra:
Yes.
 
Cherlynn:
Yeah. But we still have to be hard on them so they know.
 
Devindra:
They can try to stop profiting off of it which is what Facebook and Google are trying to do.
 
Cherlynn:
Really? They can try to stop profiting? They're a company.
 
Devindra:
They're removing ads from terrible sites. That's a start.
 
Cherlynn:
Google, yes. Which is great.
 
Terrence:
Facebook has agreed to do the same. Any objectively misleading and false news sites will no longer be able to run ads. That's good.
 
Devindra:
That's good.
 
 
I also feel like all of us on the internet are partially responsible for this too. Look at those stupid link sharing things like Taboola and Outbrain and stuff. That's just garbage.
 
Cherlynn:
I read all of it.
 
Devindra:
I just see Cherlynn clicking.
 
Terrence:
If you've ever clicked on a link in Taboola ...
 
Devindra:
You are part of the problem!
 
Cherlynn:
I am part of the problem.
 
Devindra:
It's a bigger problem on the web in general. That's how people are making money. It's not good.
 
Terrence:
I guess at the end of the day, everybody kind of needs to be able to be better at identifying fake news sources, right?
 
Cherlynn:
That's just hard. I can't even ...
 
Devindra:
If you've ever known a librarian or somebody working in information sciences, this is their job. Things like that aren't taught. I wish that was taught more for kids, in general.
 
Terrence:
This is probably getting a little bit afield but this is something, since we're talking about it now ...
 
Devindra:
He's going to nerd out now.
 
Terrence:
This is something, originally when I went to school, I went to school to become a teacher. I was going to be an English teacher and one of the things I started building lesson plans around in my school was about social networking, the internet and how to navigate information specifically. One of the things I wanted to bake into my lesson plans was how to be a fact checker.
 
Devindra:
Right, right.
 
Terrence:
Is this something, though, at this point, is this something that needs to be part of what every person is taught because of the nature of the internet?
 
Cherlynn:
I'm surprised it's not.
 
Terrence:
I am a lite bit too. Is this something that just like ... the nature of the world today means that everybody needs to be basically a professional fact checker?
 
Devindra:
Maybe not a professional fact checker, but at least more aware ...
 
Cherlynn:
More skepticism, more skeptical of what's out there. Just knowing that not everything you read is true. My mom reads the news on the newspaper and keeps telling me these things that I know to be untrue, for a fact. This definitely is a problem that needs to be taught at schools.
 
Terrence:
I'll once again point out that there's going to be a link to a document in the description here that everyone should look at. It's one of the most important pieces of reference material you will read all year. It's an ongoing list of fake, misleading news sites, clickbiat, but there's also a whole list of tips of how to analyze news sources and identify things that are reliable or unreliable. If it seems suspect, if it makes you angry, perhaps double check to see what other people are reporting, if you're only seeing a report coming from one source that you know has a particular point of view. Chances are that it's not reliable.
 
Cherlynn:
How do you know for sure, for sure something is true?
 
Terrence:
I mean, I-
 
Cherlynn:
Because is the site that people are fact checking fact checked? I'm sorry.
 
Devindra:
Nothing matters anymore, Cherlynn. Truth is being ... You can only go so far.
 
Cherlynn:
What do we care? The world's going to end tonight anyways.
 
Devindra:
How do you survive in the world? There's so much uncertainty, you can never be sure about anything.
 
Terrence:
But you can be as sure as possible. If you're seeing something reported on Breitbart and no place else, chances are it's not true.
 
Cherlynn:
Made up.
 
Terrence:
If you see a meme with a set of stats on it being shared on Facebook, look for the source of those stats before you even think about whether or not they're true.
 
Cherlynn:
You can always count on Engadget to provide you with the truth. 99% of the time.
 
Terrence:
99.99% of the time.
 
Devindra:
Everyone tries their best.
 
Terrence:
Everybody's going to screw up once in a while. The New York Times is going to get stuff wrong once in a while, Fox news is going to get stuff wrong once in a while. I think there's an obvious difference between the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, the Washington Post, to an extent, Fox News, despite the fact that it has its ideological agenda, that they do have a vested interest in presenting objective truth to the best of their ability. These are people who take journalism seriously. I don't think that is true of places like Occupy Democrats, Think Progress, Infowars, Breitbart.
 
 
Real quick, before we go, I do want to throw this out there. In response to a lot of this nonsense around fake news, Infowars has started its own fake news analysis center which I think is hilarious. Presumably, they're just going to spend their own time debunking their all of their own stories.
 
Devindra:
Great! Sure.  Waste some more of your time, yeah.
 
Terrence:
If Alex Jones spends his entire days debunking his own stories about how Hilary Clinton is a literal demon from Hell who smells like sulfur, that'd be better for everyone.
 
Cherlynn:
That's an exercise in fact checking anyway, so do it. Everyone should try.
 
Terrence:
Devindra, any last thoughts before we go.
 
Devindra:
I can't think of anything else. I do think we all have to pay attention a little more and be a little more active. It's something I do try to promote among my younger family members and stuff too. Why are you laughing?
 
Cherlynn:
You do that to us too.
 
Devindra:
I help this people in this world and some people who just take. They just take from everybody else.
 
Cherlynn:
You don't help me. You don't help me.
 
Terrence:
Cherlynn, any last thoughts?
 
Cherlynn:
I think we should all try to be happy.
 
Terrence:
I can get behind that.
 
Cherlynn:
It's a really shitty time for everyone, really. We need to ... The truth is important but we also need to fight and we need to not give up.
 
Terrence:
Awesome. Where can the fine people find you on the internet?
 
Cherlynn:
Me?
 
Terrence:
Yeah, you.
 
Cherlynn:
All right. Twitter. Cherlynn Low.
 
Terrence:
Devindra?
 
Devindra:
Twitter.com/devindra and I have a movie podcast that's slashfilm.com
 
Terrence:
Awesome. I am @TerrenceObrien. Lots of E's no A's. You can also hit us up at Engadget podcast on Twitter or email us at podcast@engadget. As always, we want to hear your feedback, what your thoughts are, questions, comments, anything.
 
Cherlynn:
You can come cry with me.
 
Terrence:
If you want us to talk about something specifically on the show, let us know. Hit us up on Twitter, email us, something if there's a big topic that's just eating away at your brain, we will address it.  We're going to be off next week for the holidays so don't tune in next week. Tune in the week afterwards. I promise you we'll be back with a full and awesome show. Before we go, I want to leave you with the comment of the week which comes from Gordon G87.
 
"Okay google. Bring me a beer."
 
Devindra:
Let's keep that in. That happens.

Posted 11.18.16

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