Is Sony's NW-HD1 really an MP3 player?

There seem to be conflicting signals flying around on whether Sony's latest Network Walkman, the 20GB NW-HD1, actually plays back MP3 and WMA files or not. The English press release states that "It plays back ATRAC3(R) and ATRAC3plus files and supports the most popular Internet audio formats, including MP3, WAV and WMA files"—note the difference between "plays back" and "supports". A comb through the Japanese specs released by the Sony mothership yields what looks to be the truth: under "supported audio compression formats", ATRAC3 and ATRAC3plus are listed, followed by "audio formats supported by SonicStage software: ATRAC3, ATRAC3plus, MP3, WAV, WMA". In short, it looks like you'll need to convert MP3 files to ATRAC3 using Sony's software in order to transfer them to the NW-HD1 and play them back. You have to admire Sony's persistence, if nothing else.

[Thanks, Kakyou]

[tonicboy @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

Sony screws up a perfectly good product once again with their damn ATRAC format. When are they going to learn?! It's just so frustrating.

[Semi @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

i dont see what the big deal is, you put your mp3s/wma/ogg into sonicstage and it will convert them b4 sending to the player, kinda hassel free!

i wonder about the transfer time tho..converting and sending will take a bit of time

[Ynoxas @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

It is stunning that Sony would continue to do what noone wants them to do.

Even proprietary fanatics Apple realized you have to bend sometimes. The result? The phenomenon of the iPod. Which is exactly what Sony is trying to get a piece of here, except they are doing it wrong.

Sony has allowed their 2nd rate entertainment division to ruin their first-class electronics division.

[Mark Williamson @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

I have been saying for a long time that I think Sony is out of touch with consumers but this takes it to a new level. Does Sony not realize that music enthusiasts who would be willing to spend $400+ on a portable music player already have thousands of digital songs, and they don't want to take the hours necessary to convert them to the ATRAC3 format. Not only will converting the songs be a pain, but given that you can't play the ATRAC3 format on other devices, you will now have to store and maintain all your songs in 2 formats! This is a company that needs to start thinking about CONSUMERS, and not format/standards wars.

[David Anthony @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

The player will be able to play mp3 wma and atrac format. I think it's a good attempt. It's not bad looking neither.
The price point needs a little adjustment though.
Sony is on the right track. Apple should start worrying!

[Semi @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

when it says it can support mp3/wma is means sonicstage can convert it to atrac3 which the player can play..

but i hope i am mistaken!

[TK @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

This is indeed a one big sucker-punch to Sony's reputation. I mean, they just got away with the merry Walkman's 25th anniversary to face this?

[six @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

It took Sony a decade to produce a VHS player. Doesn't surprise me at all that they are pretending that Atrac3 is going to catch on.

[tonicboy @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

Semi,

The big deal with having to convert your files over to ATRAC is:

1) It takes time to convert files. And you have to do it every time you get new music.

2) You double the size of your music collection as you have to keep files in both formats. If the average person has 10GB of music, can they afford to lose another 10GB of drive space? I have 80GB of music and I definitely cannot afford to just lose another 80GB.

3) You lose sound quality as conversion from one lossy format to another lossy format degrades the audio. Don't kid yourself, this matters.

4) All the above disadvantages, with no benefits whatsoever. That sucks in and of itself.

[DirtHerder @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

No one has mentioned this but I have experienced this first hand.

The biggest issue with SOny's inisistence upon ATRAC and software conversion to ATRAC of all other formats is that Sony IS NOT A SOFTWARE COMPANY. I've used their software before and it just plain sucks.... Which is actually not the killing blow. The killer is that they have a hard time supporting their software over "long" periods of time.

For example my fiance has one of those nifty memory stick based network walkmen. Neat, tiny, sexy... only one problem. The software will not run on the latest version of windows. OK... no problemo... all I need to do is get the latest version, install and I'm good to go right?

Wrong. There is no latest version.

What does this mean? This means that my fiance now has a very expensive, piece of non functioning tech jewelry.

Sony... ditch the reliance upon software. Learn a thing or two from companies like iRiver (who seem to do everything right... except for the styling).

[Xilonic @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

DirtHerder is absolutely correct - Sony software support is notwithsdanding. Do not, ever, purchase any Sony product that might require a software upgrade - as soon as the product is phased out of production with a new model Sony drops its support. This has been my experience as an IT Manager with all Sony products in our company.

[Zer0cool @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

sony needs to use their format so that they can advertise that their 20gb hardrive can hold 13000 songs, if they used all formats they could only advertise the 5000 that apple's 20gb ipod can hold and thus not making much of a
competition

[Oliver @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

well not exactly. I am giving Sony a chance with their Sony Hi-MD, but with Sony's DAP, not even a second chanced. This train already left, I already bought my Ipod 40GB which I have not regret it despite of it's price. I have tried Sony Hi-MD the NH-600D and the conversion from MP3 to ATRAC is very slow. But yes, it gets quicker once mp3 has been converted to ATRAC. Sorry Sony, nice try. I have been a minidisc fan since MZ-1 but I am not giving your DAP a chance.

[Qwakrz @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

Sorry $ony,

You had made a very good product, MiniDisc was a nice replacement to the Compact Cassette and as such I relaised that Atrac was a custom format, everything about it was infact custom.

Now you try and break into the HDD player market and force this custom codec on people that already have players that support MP3 / WMA and a few even OGG (BTW, try and compair low bitrate OGG v Atrac3+. Atrac looses BIG TIME on my ears). I would think the only real purchasers you will see will be those that dont know how this HDD player works or those that already use MD's & Atrac.

Me, I am buying the Hi-MD walkman as I already have lots of MD stuff and it will provide better functionality and robustness than this.

Sorry $ony, you don't have a clue why Apple et al are at the top of the tree do you, simply add MP3 native support to the firmware and you may well have a killer. As for now its a dead duck

[Peter @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

For those old enough to remember, this is the same old story for Sony .... Do you ever remember the VHS vs BetaMax wars in the early 1980's ? ATRAC / ATRAC3 vs MP3 is just the same fight in the digital music age. Sony ... wake up ... you never sold many BetaMax players to the mass consumer market (compared to VHS) and you wont sell many of these players vs iPod's. Not that I'm an Apple fan either.

[Cori @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

Well.

I've always been an MP3 fanatic. But a year ago when I bought a used MD recorder, I was introduced to ATRAC3 format.

I still use MD (mainly because I'm not a huge fan of very expensive portable audio units with non-removable media; they make me VERY nervous) and I honestly prefer ATRAC3 to MP3. With SonicStage 2.0's removal of the old OpenMG system of check-in and out, I find my MD and ATRAC3 equipment even more usable.

ATRAC3 is a codec with physically smaller files than MP3, but keeps the same quality. To me, that sounds like it's BETTER.

I mean... the typical MP3: 128kpbs, 44khz, Joint Stereo. About a meg per minute. My ears can't tell the difference between that and LP4 ATRAC3 (66kbps, 44khz Joint Stereo).

I'm still not thrilled with this device... it's non-removable media scares me too much to drop around 400 on it. I do think that Sony should've made it able to play MP3s.

Personally, I like ATRAC more (from an acoustic standpoint) but I like the flexibility of the MP3 as well. I'll likely continue to use both...

... ATRAC on my MDs, MP3 on my PC's hard drive.

[Steve L @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

The latest mp3 codecs deliver sound quality pretty comparable to WMA, AAC, ATRAC, despite claims from Microsoft, Sony, etc. of being "half the size" of comparable mp3 files.

If you don't know that mp3 is not a static format, then you probably shouldn't make statements regarding sound quality of different formats (posting your own listening impressions is of course different.)

http://www.rjamorim.com/test/multiformat128/results.html

Even if ATRAC were significantly superior to mp3, the whole process of converting mp3 to ATRAC ruins whatever benefits might have been achieved. The resulting ATRAC file will necessarily be WORSE than the mp3, even if you encoded it at the same bitrate as before.

[Jef @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

It's not Mac compatible, so it's not usable to me. Nothing made by Sony is Mac compatible, so I've stopped buying Sony products.

[Pete @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

I'm gutted too. I had high hopes for this player, an ipod but with a battery life, an iriver but smaller and prettier!

ATRAC! what! Sony must provide people with an option to choose, let customers use their existing collection of mp3s without forcing them to recompress their music and hack the sound quality apart. Then if they wish to take advantage of ATRACs better compression for adding new music then let them choose to do this instead.

Every body that posts here, should also copy and paste their post into the sony feedback form, so sony can stay up to date with what their market wants (just in case they are iunterested).

This is the Sony UK feedback form: http://www.sony.co.uk/support/feedbackform.asp

[Gunnar @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

... the worst thing with this atrac-stupidity is the following: For the 1st time MD could have become THE medium for journalist and musicians, who want to have their digital recorded stuff as fast as possible on their computers.
But is there any possibility to convert this recorded atrac back to mp3 or wav or pcm or something else supported by common audio editors?

[BJ @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

You MD users may remember how Sony kept adding "End Search" buttons to their MD machines (basically a fast-forward button to find the blank space at the end of an MD) for YEARS after every other company made that redundant cassette-leftover function automatic. Sony kept removing buttons and adding items to their infuriating menu-based controls, but the "End Search" button, which did NOTHING, stayed. They just don't listen, and I'm going to assume their players will play ATRAC/ATRAC3 exclusively until they go down in flames. And Gunnar, the new Hi-MDs will supposedly allow upload and conversion to MP3 through Sonic Stage. Keep your fingers crossed; it may be messy.

[ITALO @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

My friend bought last saturday the new HDD PLAYER FROM SONY in Japan...he said to me on the phone is very small, it gives

so many
hours of playback

which actually Apple can not!

Size Is the best....Ipod not!

Has a very Nice remote control with LCD and Back Lit .....Ipod doesn't!

No in all the reviews is about The Atrac3 Atrac Plus I'm Saound Engineer and i must say for experience in my field Atrac3 Atrac 3 plus definition of sound is better than mp3 encoding.but...........

Sony has to Market their own products with their own encoding is very simple to use i work with Windows PC and also Mac and i must say this is a great product Apple is afraid and pretty much is because the wont compete such a big Corporation like and they know for usre they will loose the battle soon!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sharo @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

I really hope the the above post was a joke.

First, the iPods have backlit screens. People have been screaming for Sony to add a backlight to their portables but nnnoooo...

Second, the HD-MD's (and the previous gen, Net-MD) are not compatible with the mac. Yes, you can 'upload' songs at a screaming speed of realtime on a mac but that doesn't count. ATRAC will never be playable on a mac. Peronally, I don't think Apple would be afraid any time soon.

Third, there is a remote for the iPod. Whether it's backlit or not, I personally don't care.

Fourth, Sonic Stage Sucks (tm). No further comment is necessary.

Fifth, schools are good. Take note, people.

[Gunnar @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

@BJ just phoned to the sony hotline. They said, Sonic Stage will not convert Atrac to MP3 or WAV or anything else, except while burning the file to a cd.
It's so stupid! When i want to cut audio taped with the Hi-MD i can choose to "upload" analogue audio to my computer or first upload digital, then burn a cd and in a third step rip this cd again... What the hell is going on in their minds... ???

[Help! @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

Hi, im thinking about getting this device but im confused.
Firstly, if i was to downlaod music of of Win MX or Kazaa would i be able to put that onto my sony walkman? Is there an attachment lead in order to do so or would i ave to buiy that seperatly.
Also wat is Atrac?

[Roger @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

"Apple is afraid and pretty much is because the wont compete such a big Corporation"

You think Apple isn't a big corporation as well?

[Liam @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

can you delete the atrac3 files from your pc after downloading them to the walkman, so the files don't take up too much space on the pc? it does seem a bit pointless from sony not to support mp3 but everything else looks ok

[Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

I've never used a hard drive based player, so it is only my assumption that they can be plugged into either a USB or Firewire port (depending on the device, of course) and then used like a portable hard drive.

If this is the case, then Sony is missing a bet. One of the uses of portable players is to download news reports, audio articles, radio downloads, and other online sources. Most of these are in one or more of MP3, WMA, Real, or sometimes Ogg format.

The key point here is that if I can plug my iPod in either at work or in a internet cafe, download and transfer some of these items, and then walk away listening to new material. But -- my own PC was not involved. If my understanding is correct, the big 'mp3 advantage' of the iPod is the ability to load MP3 from any machine. Sony, by comparison, only lets you load from your own machine. For some people, this is no big deal, but for others this is a major limitation.

Can someone confirm or deny my speculations?

[alia @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

hey Help! from using their MD software, and being an avid fan of Kazaa i can tell u that u can convert songs from Kazaa or Win MX or any song drive on ur pc on the SonicStage software - it doesnt take that long and the sound quality, though poorer, is still pretty good. for any normal person the audio quality from ATRAC3 is still good enough, though i can see why the superior MP3 or AAC wud be preferred. yea so dont worry - sonicstage cab also rip song from audio CDs and transfer songs from other formats.

[Roy Williamson @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

I just filled my wife's mp3 player. The only way she can get more music on is to delete some. I just fill another minidisc. If you're worrying about storing mp3 files and doubling hard drive usage by storing sony format tunes the answer is simple. Delete the sony format files and keep the mp3 files. You have the sony format files on minidisc and if you lose the MD you can convert again from mp3 format. This level of discussion is just nitpicking. As I understand it the iPod battery is not replaceable, once it goes you have to buy a new iPod. Thats expensive. I just regret the act that Sony have moved to rechargeable batteries from alkaline or rechargeable. WE have too many chargers already... mobile phone, PDO, mp3 players... it was easy with alkalin batteries, just change battery and you're ready to go.

[Force @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

uh... iPod batteries are replacable. Very replacable. You should try looking stuff up.

[jumger @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

uh... ipod batteries are replacable true but maybe $100 is a bit much for a battery that can only be replaced by apple, its crap doesn't last for like more than a year, as hundreds of people have found out, and only gives out power for like 8 hours max compared to 30 hours from sony

[qxe900 @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

Ive just read all these comments, and the people who are right are those whohave the exeperience of Sony, and probably as big a music fan and sony fan as myself...

I own a Sony LISSA hifif - looks the dogs b0ll0cks, and back in 2000 it was a flagship, as the 3 stacks of amp, cd and MD all connect by firewire....yhet each has its own power plug - madness, the whole deal with this was that it could be controlled via the PC, you could copy Mp3 across and all that sh!t.....fine if youre using win2000, i own a vaio preloaded with xp, which isnt supported IN ANYWAY - all sony software is sh!t, theres no doubt about it - it tries to look good, is ugly, clunky and very unstable...i upgraded to sonic stage 1.5 and it crashed all the time.....the only thing ive found to be anygood is simple burner - for my net md walman, it does what its says - copies a cd to the md and picks up track names via the CDDB - and thats about it - theres a workaroun by using nero to burn mp3s to a cd image and then using a virtual cd drive fool simple burner to use this image and burn that - but what a pain....the iPod has the market share, and it WILL only be those people who havent bee stung by Sony in the past who will buy this tosh - i love sonys styling, dont get me wrong, this looks much bettre thna the ipod, but im also a fan on apple...and the simplicity of apple makes it a winner with even the most technophobic of us....ive started to use itune on my pc as its just nicer....the crazy thing is my sony dvd will play back mp3s off cd and i sometimes do that if im having a partyy or something and play it thorugh my surround amp...why oh why then cant this sodding thing play them instead of the pointless atrac......!??!?!? As siad above atrac shouod just be for MD as thats all it plays...and anything else make MP3 - the whole net MD thing p!ssed me off with it 're-encoding' my mp3 in the background and saving an additonal atrac version on my HDD that i didnt want.....MD is good, and a cheaper alternative to HDD based music, but id be kidding myself if eventually HDD became the same price as MD....and alsogot smaller and larger capacity.....sony should really listen to public opinion...its only a matter of time before me future purhcases are stopped by previous unhappy consumers like us....

[Steve @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

OK, I'll admit it - I have a bunch of Sony consumer electronics gear, in fact one could say that over the years I've been something of a Sony enthusiast. However, as I have slowly but surely learned, the current business practises of Sony do not, in any way, shape or form, promote customer loyalty! I have a Sony Clie, for example - an NX70, the one that promised to be so wonderful, supporting both memory stick and CF formats, built in camera, use as an ausio player, blah, blah, as well as being hi-res and being what I thought a logical upgrade from a Palm device? Yeah, right - but as always with Sony these days, the devil is very much in the details! CF support? From Sony, justtheir WiFi card, over priced and not what I was wanting anyway. No support for all my CF cards for file storage. I finally solved that one with a third party driver, but the driver has to wrestle with all sorts of hardships forced on it by the writers having to reverse engineer the Sony non-published APIs, which meant a somewhat difficult install process plus the occasional lockup requiring soft resets. These I guess I'll just have to live with.

Want to play MP3s on it? Sure, it will do this, but do Sony tell you how? Not likely! The files have to go into a special and non-obvious directory, and of the MP3 files I have that all play fine on any other MP3 device, maybe 1/3 won't play on the Sony. Then there is the fludgy software, and of course third party stuff won't replace the Sony MP3 player (again - no developers have access to the Sony APIs....)

The same problems with the NetMD player I have. I wanted to be able to record audio files with a microphone to it. That part works, great - I now have ATRAC3 files on my MD media, cool stuff! OK, let's see - transfer them to the PC via USB, convert to maybe MP3, or burn my lovely audio files to a CD, that's next, right? Wrong! Sony don't let you take an audio file you recorded yourself, even if it's as 'copyright law friendly' as me recording myself singing tunelessly in the bath, off the MD! How silly is that, Sony? Very!

This is a whole step more insidious than the stupid DVD zone stuff - don't get me started on that one, and whilst it's not *just* Sony there, they sure had a huge hand in it.

Long term software support is another bug bear - as observed by others above, this is another area where they suck badly.

Sony needs to wake up and smell the roses. I'm less and less inclined to buy Sony, as are many others, and I'll certainly not be recommending any of their products to anyone else either. They've lost a previously loyal customer, and one who has spent many thousands of his hard earned consumer dollars in the past. I'm not quite at the point of religously avoiding anything Sony, but if they annoy me any more, that's the logical next step. I certainly didn't buy my latest digital camera from them. My next digicam will likely also be a Canon, it most definitely won't be a Sony. Same goes for the video camera I've been thinking of buying and well, the DVD Dual Layer burner I was thinking of buying? The DR700 looks so nice, but...... LCD PC screen anyone? I'll walk right on past that Sony stand, too.

[Neal Douglas @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

You can banter at Sony all you like:
a) They don't care and
b) Sony do make all there money from software now.

Sony don't even make their PS2, it is manufactured under licence by Toshiba. Sony are a company that will plug their own formats forever. No matter what, however MP3 is a crap format just because everything is supplied in MP3 doesn't mean it is better than ATRAC-3, MP3 is lossful compression you are physically losing some of the music, don't beleive anyone who tells you the song sounds better as MP3 it doesn't. The CD version will always be better, however you cannot tell the difference between ATRAC 3 and CD, it is designed to work with your hearing system you simply can't tell the difference. ATRAC 3 is better than MP3 even if no-one has taken it up, WMA has no value whatsoever.

Sony did have a major battle between VHS and BetaMax but Sony made more money out of BetaMax than the inventors of VHS did.

BetaMax is the broadcast standard, even today it is now DigiBeta but almost every programme you watch on TV is coming from a DigiBeta. Sony make millions out of it! Don't dismiss Sony's entry yet. Apple have produced a product that sells, but it is only one, Sony still dominates the Electronics sector.

[Adam @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

I dont know what all of you are talking about how sony is so bad with their products and all. Sony makes the best electronics in the world. Most of you who say it will take hours to change the format of the songs into ATRAC, well your stupid because it only took me a couple of minutes. The iPod took longer than my MD player. Secondly, most of you say that the ATRAC makes the songs bad quality, your also stupid because if you wanted to you could make the songs with extremely good quality but you will still lose the amount of songs that are able to hold on the MD or Hard Drive. So therefore the new Sony Hard Drive Mp3 player is going to be the next best thing in portable audio.

[Tom van Deusen @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

I purchased the top of the line MZ-NH1 minidisc recorder player yesterday for $339. There are things to like about it: Small, gorgeous, metal, great sound. Things not to like about it: Sonic Stage crashed when I tried to upgrade to version 2.1 from their website. Not being able to burn CDs of stuff I recorded live (a local band) last night, due to "copyright restrictions" is infuriating. Being stuck with Sonic Stage and ATRAC is a nightmare. I agree with the other cranky people posting here. I'm sending mine back. I'm thinking I'll get an iRiver 40 GB.

[Adrian D. Kanary @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

Honestly I don't see why you sony people still defend this atrocity. It doesn't play mp3! It's not compatible with mac! It's own music format is a custom, designed by them! This alone SHOULD be enough. Ok lets see, point number one that most defenders use is that music sounds better in atrac - that may be so, but guess what? If you're just changing formats, say from a downloaded mp3 to atrac3... You're not going to get you're sound quality back!!!

Second point, Sony's player, along with all of Sony's other products, are not mac compatible. There goes 30% of your market Sony (I say 30% since most people who can afford a mac will also go for just about every other awesome hi-tech gadgetry they can get their hands on, whereas windoze users range from rich to poor).

Third point. Up until now, I had never heard of the Atrac3, hell I hadn't even heard of this player! It doesn't have a particularly attractive name, the sound format is unheard of, NO one except die-hard Sony fans think Atrac3 stands a chance in the shadow of AAC or MP3 or WMV in terms of compatibility (and by the way, AAC is better than Atrac3, suckahs) and availability. Get off it, the NW-HD1 died before it came out.

[99Flake @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

This arguement seems a little pointless if you ask me. Either you will or won't buy one or the other. People who buy Sony products mainly (not all) buy for the name and that is how their consumer products sell. They are NOT the be-all and end all. Their separates Hi-Fi leads a lot to be desired compared to the likes of Arcam, Denon, Rotel etc as with the speakers. However in the land of portables they know what they are doing.
I personally have just bought an MZN-H1 MD player and it is superb. It can do any recording you want on removeable media. A bonus in my opinion, plus it plays all my old MD's and can reformat them to a higher capacity should I want.
I believe that Sony HAVE made a mistake with the NW-HD1 using ATRAC. It was made for MD and not HD machines but as a format it is the best compression system. If you convert MP3 you do not lose quality as there is nothing left to cut off or compress. I know this I studied it at uni for 4 years. But they are strangling those with large MP3 collections, if you are too lazy to delete the ATRAC files after they are created.
I would also agree with the comments on the software Sonicstage is terrible - slow and unstable and not user friendly.
Maybe Sony should release the rights to ATRAC then we would all be happy a better system that all can use!
Anyway these are just my thoughts. Neither are better, just better suited to individual needs unless you are blinded by the Sony PR machine and have to have their stuff through blind belief it is better (usually the case for MD tho they invented it).
Oh yeah and Betamax was actually BETTER than VHS just too expensive oh and propriatry (a lesson to be learnt by Sony there I feel).

[99Flake @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

This arguement seems a little pointless if you ask me. Either you will or won't buy one or the other. People who buy Sony products mainly (not all) buy for the name and that is how their consumer products sell. They are NOT the be-all and end all. Their separates Hi-Fi leads a lot to be desired compared to the likes of Arcam, Denon, Rotel etc as with the speakers. However in the land of portables they know what they are doing.
I personally have just bought an MZN-H1 MD player and it is superb. It can do any recording you want on removeable media. A bonus in my opinion, plus it plays all my old MD's and can reformat them to a higher capacity should I want.
I believe that Sony HAVE made a mistake with the NW-HD1 using ATRAC. It was made for MD and not HD machines but as a format it is the best compression system. If you convert MP3 you do not lose quality as there is nothing left to cut off or compress. I know this I studied it at uni for 4 years. But they are strangling those with large MP3 collections, if you are too lazy to delete the ATRAC files after they are created.
I would also agree with the comments on the software Sonicstage is terrible - slow and unstable and not user friendly.
Maybe Sony should release the rights to ATRAC then we would all be happy a better system that all can use!
Anyway these are just my thoughts. Neither are better, just better suited to individual needs unless you are blinded by the Sony PR machine and have to have their stuff through blind belief it is better (usually the case for MD tho they invented it).
Oh yeah and Betamax was actually BETTER than VHS just too expensive oh and propriatry (a lesson to be learnt by Sony there I feel).

[Patrick La Porte @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

I am a sony lover. I have to walk away from them when it comes to their receivers and speakers (gotta go with a Denon powering Jamo's), for certain. For everything else, however, from my HDTVs to my PC, and especially my portables, I have been very pleased with Sony, despite the understood price premium. Now that we finally have broadband in my area, I will be joining (absurdly late, I know) the digital music frenzy. I think the proprietary approach to the new HD device is a mistake, and rather transparently an attempt to force people who adore sony, and perhaps some who do not, to go with their "Connect" music service. I have to say that my initial impressions of connect have been wholly positive, and this is the service I would go with, regardless of format. Still, I will not go with the HD device, but rather one of the trick new H1-MD's instead. I do not need thousands of songs at the push of a button, and I find swappind out little MDs a much faster way to navigate through a music library than any software menu system - no matter how trick - ever could be. Since I don't, as stated above, have a vast music collection yet, the MP3-to-ATRAC conversion question will not even apply to me. (Additionally, I will have no need to transfer the music to anything BUT the MDs - XM satellite radio covers my car audio needs). I think that Sony, while alienating current digital music aficionados, as we have seen here with many of you, will have strong pull with all of the new users that are added every year. Remember who will be buying these! A kid, new to digital music, maybe 11 years old, asks for a digital music player for a holiday gift, etc. The player is FOR the kid, but won't the PARENTS be the purchasers?? What brand will people of an older generation reach for, Apple or Sony?? I think Sony wins that battle, hands down. As time goes on, if ATRAC proves as useful for the HD device as it has for MDs. Sony will be positioned strongly to attract any and all consumers new to the market. Everyone on this page seems to think that all comsumersfunction as they do, and that the demographic is static. If ATRAC survives at all, in the HD device, for a short, critical period of time - Sony will be a player in this market segment.
My major question has to do with storage on the PC. Does the Sony software, no matter how poorly engineered, or whatever else has been said, even provide for not simply copying, but for storing and organizing the music on the PC (like a Musicmatch Jukebox, etc.)? If not, will the other programs in existance even recognize ATRACs on the PC as being media files at all? IF anyone can fill me in on this, I would greatly appreciate your time and thoughts. Good discussion, guys! Thanks!

[Robert @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

One big failing of the player is it needs Sonic Stage. Sonic stage could be politely described as a video store run by possed Nazzis who are intent on not actually servicing the customers.

Put simply the program doesn't work, and support arent interested.

Infact it is my opinion they infringe your creativity, which infringes music copywrite.

Namely your right to make a compilation album. You only get to use the the track 3 times (if it records). Then it must be checked back in from the unit.

What happens if your player gets damaged or your computer for that matter. Oh dear it doesn't care. You can not get the rights back, despite this being a feature of sonic stage. It doesn't work! Haha!

Heres the funny bit create your own music (i.e compose anew song or a speech) and send the file to the player and Sony will restrict you to the number of times you can record it. (And no this doesn't mean that sony have just signed a contract to sell your material.)

Avoid all sony music players that require Sonic Stage they are too constricted with Digital Managment Rights and therefore only appeal to the music compannies.

You the customer have been given the last thought with these music products. AVOID

Do I sound like a bitter ex sony fan, yip! But do a search on sonic stage problems and you will see I am not the only one.

[Arthur @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

I had my own encounter with Sonic Stage.
I purchased a Sony Clie PDA and was trying to transfer several CDs from my music library to the memory stick using the provided manual. I spent hours and crashed the computer several times with no result. The Sonic Stage would demand that I use Magic Gate memory stick since the music files were to be converted into ATRAC format and the regular memory stick wouldn�t support this conversion. After several phone calls and substantial time spent with Sony�s tech support I was finally told that the device indeed supports the MP3 format (as assured in manual) ant there is a simple way of dragging and dropping the MP3 files into a folder in the memory stick called MSAUDIO. The later process didn�t require Sonic Stage.

Conclusion: I like Sony�s new 20 Gig music player, and Sony in General, and would seriously consider buying it, but the thought that I may have to go through their Sonic Stage and ATRAC conversion (what a waste of time)�.. No thanks.

[trak0r @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

I just bought one of these, thought it would be cool for easy transfering of data and personal storage... but it is not. In fact, my expectation of what this player should've been like (from previous players) was basically a storage device with the option to play music with multiple codecs like a pc. Why the hell not... as everyone has mentioned before, this isn't easy to do as I found out personally, and makes assumptions about the way I'm going to use my player. Sony needs to realize that people are more educated generally about certain file sizes being bigger then others with different quality elements (just look at traditional mp3 and wma battle).

Needless to say, I'm not playing their game because I don't have to! I will get an iriver 40 GB that rocks with everything I want and EXPECTED from previous players - real functionality! The only thing I don't like is the size and looks of the iriver, but you have to sacrifice somethings it seems because sony can't pull their heads out of their assis.

[Bill @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

Hello?! I dont care if the i-pod is a brilliant device and it's good-looking. Sony are trying to make things more interesting for us, does it really matter that our file formats have to be converted beforehand? Atrac3 just means you can get far more onto your player - isn't that what we all want? Plus Sony has incredible battery playback - 30 hours! Compared to Apple's most recent (and pitiful) 12 hours. Also whoever was moaning about how attrac3 won't play on Mac computers - get the hint nothing does these days (except i-pod which was made by the same people).

Also I was hoping someone could confirm the rumour about the colour touch-screen Toshiba mp3 player? I hope they hurry up about it!

[Sean O'Hare @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

I have had a 40gb Ipod for eight months now and it's completely amazing. However, it's a little bit heavy and the battery is completely useless..leave it for a day and it has drained flat. So I spotted the new sony last week and couldn't resist it. I have read your comments above and i am of the opinion that steve jobs is arguing with the sony corp. They are both good systems with flaws. The sony is very portable and for anyone over the age of 35 will mean a lot to the inventors of portable music as a result the deserve an open mind. The new sony is a sexy gadget and we are all impressed with gadgets otherwise we wouldn't buy any of them. As far as loading music I have imported albums onto my computer..time was comparable to itunes and the transfer from the computer to the device is more or less the same as the ipod. As far as importing mp3 etc you can't do this with itunes, they have to be imported so what is all the negative opinion about? Sound wise both devices are great. I can't decide which is better...both are good. finally I tried to buy an Ipod three years ago and Apple hadn't provided a device for PC!! so for the comments about ATRAC..bear this in mind, Sony aren't stupid their system is their system. Enjoy your sony.

[Nader @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

I just bought an Vaio Desktop Computer with Sonic Stage Version 1.6 installed. I liked the Program and was impressed by the Visualizer. Short time later I bought the HD-1 and the old Sonic Stage version couldn�t find the HD-1 Player so I had to install the new Version 2.1 which was delivered with the player-the new version is desined for the player and it does not nearly have the features like the old version. Any idea, if there is a option how to run the old version and how the programm would find the HD-1, so I could transfer my songs with the program?
Unfortunatly the Player is new here in Germany so there is no expirience with this player and even SONY-Germany is unable to help me. Somebody knowing any Adress, where I could send my questions to??
Would be glad for any help :-)

[James Rubens @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

MP3-playing Walkmans are being launched by Sony, and existing NW-series Walkmans will also have a firmware update for accommodating the de-facto Internet standard for compressed music files.
As we reported back in September - Sony does u-turn for MP3 support - Sony has abandoned its position on only supporting its own ATRAC-format. The devices, which have up to 1GB of Flash memory, are Sony's first to accommodate the more popular MP3 format.

The snappily entitled NW-E95 has a memory capacity of 512MB (roughly the equivalent of storing 23 CDs) and the NW-E99 1GB (roughly equivalent to 46 CDs).

Sony claims the lightweight devices, which weigh 40 grams and have a backlit LCD screen, have a battery life of 70 hours. They also come with a neck strap - the whole point of the original Walkman, of course, was to enjoy music on the move.

'Today, we are introducing two new models, with high capacity, competitively priced and with direct MP3 compatibility, which we believe will further develop the credibility of the WALKMAN brand in the Personal Network Audio Market,' said Gregory Kukolj, General Manager for Personal Audio Europe at Sony.

'At Sony, we understand the needs of music lovers and the different ways people consume and interact with music because of our great heritage in the personal audio arena,' he added, despite the fact that other digital music player manufacturers have incorporated the standard in their devices for years. Indeed it was Sony's need as a music publisher that drove it to develop its ATRAC3 format, which constrains the way consumers transfer their music between devices.

The new Walkmans will be available from the end of November. UK pricing has not yet been announced.

Before the end of October existing owners of NW-series Walkmans - the NW-E55 and NW-E75 - will also be able to download software from the Internet to enable them to play MP3 files as well, in addition to Sony's ATRAC3plus compressed music.

[Colin Irwin @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

There's news about the new Sony walkmans that play MP3 on http://products.sony.co.uk/sony_walkman.asp - it looks like it's just the flash memory walkmans that are playing MP3. It doesn't say anything about the hard disk walkman.

[Killz @ Dec 19th 2005 2:23AM]

I have both Ipod and the Sony HD1. I would say that the Sony is better than Ipod for sure.
1) 20GB space is enough for most or even all people.
2) It's small! It wouldn't bugg you too much where ever you put it.
3) Ipod's back (the silver part), really easy to get scratched up and get's pretty ugly back there.
4) Much longer battery life.
5) The software is better if you are the kind of person that downloads from WinMX or Kazaa or any other P2P.
6) The color. The Ipod has a really girly color to it. Why don't they make it like Sony and put normal colors?!
7) Ipod headphones not compatable with any other. (WTF are you gonna do if it breaks?)
8) charging time is less for more battery life.
Many others but I think you get my point eh?