Is Sony's NW-HD1 really an MP3 player?
posted Jul 1st 2004 11:25AM
There seem to be conflicting signals flying around on whether Sony's latest Network Walkman, the 20GB NW-HD1,
actually plays back MP3 and WMA files or not. The English
press release states that "It plays back ATRAC3(R) and ATRAC3plus files and supports the most popular Internet
audio formats, including MP3, WAV and WMA files"—note the difference between "plays back" and "supports". A comb
through the Japanese specs released by the Sony mothership yields what looks to be the truth: under "supported audio
compression formats", ATRAC3 and ATRAC3plus are listed, followed by "audio formats supported by SonicStage software:
ATRAC3, ATRAC3plus, MP3, WAV, WMA". In short, it looks like you'll need to convert MP3 files to ATRAC3 using Sony's
software in order to transfer them to the NW-HD1 and play them back. You have to admire Sony's persistence, if nothing
else.
[Thanks, Kakyou]
Sony screws up a perfectly good product once again with their damn ATRAC format. When are they going to learn?! It's just so frustrating.
i dont see what the big deal is, you put your mp3s/wma/ogg into sonicstage and it will convert them b4 sending to the player, kinda hassel free!
i wonder about the transfer time tho..converting and sending will take a bit of time
It is stunning that Sony would continue to do what noone wants them to do.
Even proprietary fanatics Apple realized you have to bend sometimes. The result? The phenomenon of the iPod. Which is exactly what Sony is trying to get a piece of here, except they are doing it wrong.
Sony has allowed their 2nd rate entertainment division to ruin their first-class electronics division.
I have been saying for a long time that I think Sony is out of touch with consumers but this takes it to a new level. Does Sony not realize that music enthusiasts who would be willing to spend $400+ on a portable music player already have thousands of digital songs, and they don't want to take the hours necessary to convert them to the ATRAC3 format. Not only will converting the songs be a pain, but given that you can't play the ATRAC3 format on other devices, you will now have to store and maintain all your songs in 2 formats! This is a company that needs to start thinking about CONSUMERS, and not format/standards wars.
The player will be able to play mp3 wma and atrac format. I think it's a good attempt. It's not bad looking neither.
The price point needs a little adjustment though.
Sony is on the right track. Apple should start worrying!
when it says it can support mp3/wma is means sonicstage can convert it to atrac3 which the player can play..
but i hope i am mistaken!
This is indeed a one big sucker-punch to Sony's reputation. I mean, they just got away with the merry Walkman's 25th anniversary to face this?
It took Sony a decade to produce a VHS player. Doesn't surprise me at all that they are pretending that Atrac3 is going to catch on.
Semi,
The big deal with having to convert your files over to ATRAC is:
1) It takes time to convert files. And you have to do it every time you get new music.
2) You double the size of your music collection as you have to keep files in both formats. If the average person has 10GB of music, can they afford to lose another 10GB of drive space? I have 80GB of music and I definitely cannot afford to just lose another 80GB.
3) You lose sound quality as conversion from one lossy format to another lossy format degrades the audio. Don't kid yourself, this matters.
4) All the above disadvantages, with no benefits whatsoever. That sucks in and of itself.
No one has mentioned this but I have experienced this first hand.
The biggest issue with SOny's inisistence upon ATRAC and software conversion to ATRAC of all other formats is that Sony IS NOT A SOFTWARE COMPANY. I've used their software before and it just plain sucks.... Which is actually not the killing blow. The killer is that they have a hard time supporting their software over "long" periods of time.
For example my fiance has one of those nifty memory stick based network walkmen. Neat, tiny, sexy... only one problem. The software will not run on the latest version of windows. OK... no problemo... all I need to do is get the latest version, install and I'm good to go right?
Wrong. There is no latest version.
What does this mean? This means that my fiance now has a very expensive, piece of non functioning tech jewelry.
Sony... ditch the reliance upon software. Learn a thing or two from companies like iRiver (who seem to do everything right... except for the styling).
DirtHerder is absolutely correct - Sony software support is notwithsdanding. Do not, ever, purchase any Sony product that might require a software upgrade - as soon as the product is phased out of production with a new model Sony drops its support. This has been my experience as an IT Manager with all Sony products in our company.
sony needs to use their format so that they can advertise that their 20gb hardrive can hold 13000 songs, if they used all formats they could only advertise the 5000 that apple's 20gb ipod can hold and thus not making much of a
competition
well not exactly. I am giving Sony a chance with their Sony Hi-MD, but with Sony's DAP, not even a second chanced. This train already left, I already bought my Ipod 40GB which I have not regret it despite of it's price. I have tried Sony Hi-MD the NH-600D and the conversion from MP3 to ATRAC is very slow. But yes, it gets quicker once mp3 has been converted to ATRAC. Sorry Sony, nice try. I have been a minidisc fan since MZ-1 but I am not giving your DAP a chance.
Sorry $ony,
You had made a very good product, MiniDisc was a nice replacement to the Compact Cassette and as such I relaised that Atrac was a custom format, everything about it was infact custom.
Now you try and break into the HDD player market and force this custom codec on people that already have players that support MP3 / WMA and a few even OGG (BTW, try and compair low bitrate OGG v Atrac3+. Atrac looses BIG TIME on my ears). I would think the only real purchasers you will see will be those that dont know how this HDD player works or those that already use MD's & Atrac.
Me, I am buying the Hi-MD walkman as I already have lots of MD stuff and it will provide better functionality and robustness than this.
Sorry $ony, you don't have a clue why Apple et al are at the top of the tree do you, simply add MP3 native support to the firmware and you may well have a killer. As for now its a dead duck
For those old enough to remember, this is the same old story for Sony .... Do you ever remember the VHS vs BetaMax wars in the early 1980's ? ATRAC / ATRAC3 vs MP3 is just the same fight in the digital music age. Sony ... wake up ... you never sold many BetaMax players to the mass consumer market (compared to VHS) and you wont sell many of these players vs iPod's. Not that I'm an Apple fan either.
Well.
I've always been an MP3 fanatic. But a year ago when I bought a used MD recorder, I was introduced to ATRAC3 format.
I still use MD (mainly because I'm not a huge fan of very expensive portable audio units with non-removable media; they make me VERY nervous) and I honestly prefer ATRAC3 to MP3. With SonicStage 2.0's removal of the old OpenMG system of check-in and out, I find my MD and ATRAC3 equipment even more usable.
ATRAC3 is a codec with physically smaller files than MP3, but keeps the same quality. To me, that sounds like it's BETTER.
I mean... the typical MP3: 128kpbs, 44khz, Joint Stereo. About a meg per minute. My ears can't tell the difference between that and LP4 ATRAC3 (66kbps, 44khz Joint Stereo).
I'm still not thrilled with this device... it's non-removable media scares me too much to drop around 400 on it. I do think that Sony should've made it able to play MP3s.
Personally, I like ATRAC more (from an acoustic standpoint) but I like the flexibility of the MP3 as well. I'll likely continue to use both...
... ATRAC on my MDs, MP3 on my PC's hard drive.
The latest mp3 codecs deliver sound quality pretty comparable to WMA, AAC, ATRAC, despite claims from Microsoft, Sony, etc. of being "half the size" of comparable mp3 files.
If you don't know that mp3 is not a static format, then you probably shouldn't make statements regarding sound quality of different formats (posting your own listening impressions is of course different.)
http://www.rjamorim.com/test/multiformat128/results.html
Even if ATRAC were significantly superior to mp3, the whole process of converting mp3 to ATRAC ruins whatever benefits might have been achieved. The resulting ATRAC file will necessarily be WORSE than the mp3, even if you encoded it at the same bitrate as before.
It's not Mac compatible, so it's not usable to me. Nothing made by Sony is Mac compatible, so I've stopped buying Sony products.
I'm gutted too. I had high hopes for this player, an ipod but with a battery life, an iriver but smaller and prettier!
ATRAC! what! Sony must provide people with an option to choose, let customers use their existing collection of mp3s without forcing them to recompress their music and hack the sound quality apart. Then if they wish to take advantage of ATRACs better compression for adding new music then let them choose to do this instead.
Every body that posts here, should also copy and paste their post into the sony feedback form, so sony can stay up to date with what their market wants (just in case they are iunterested).
This is the Sony UK feedback form: http://www.sony.co.uk/support/feedbackform.asp
... the worst thing with this atrac-stupidity is the following: For the 1st time MD could have become THE medium for journalist and musicians, who want to have their digital recorded stuff as fast as possible on their computers.
But is there any possibility to convert this recorded atrac back to mp3 or wav or pcm or something else supported by common audio editors?
You MD users may remember how Sony kept adding "End Search" buttons to their MD machines (basically a fast-forward button to find the blank space at the end of an MD) for YEARS after every other company made that redundant cassette-leftover function automatic. Sony kept removing buttons and adding items to their infuriating menu-based controls, but the "End Search" button, which did NOTHING, stayed. They just don't listen, and I'm going to assume their players will play ATRAC/ATRAC3 exclusively until they go down in flames. And Gunnar, the new Hi-MDs will supposedly allow upload and conversion to MP3 through Sonic Stage. Keep your fingers crossed; it may be messy.
My friend bought last saturday the new HDD PLAYER FROM SONY in Japan...he said to me on the phone is very small, it gives
so many
hours of playback
which actually Apple can not!
Size Is the best....Ipod not!
Has a very Nice remote control with LCD and Back Lit .....Ipod doesn't!
No in all the reviews is about The Atrac3 Atrac Plus I'm Saound Engineer and i must say for experience in my field Atrac3 Atrac 3 plus definition of sound is better than mp3 encoding.but...........
Sony has to Market their own products with their own encoding is very simple to use i work with Windows PC and also Mac and i must say this is a great product Apple is afraid and pretty much is because the wont compete such a big Corporation like and they know for usre they will loose the battle soon!!!!!!!!!!!
I really hope the the above post was a joke.
First, the iPods have backlit screens. People have been screaming for Sony to add a backlight to their portables but nnnoooo...
Second, the HD-MD's (and the previous gen, Net-MD) are not compatible with the mac. Yes, you can 'upload' songs at a screaming speed of realtime on a mac but that doesn't count. ATRAC will never be playable on a mac. Peronally, I don't think Apple would be afraid any time soon.
Third, there is a remote for the iPod. Whether it's backlit or not, I personally don't care.
Fourth, Sonic Stage Sucks (tm). No further comment is necessary.
Fifth, schools are good. Take note, people.
@BJ just phoned to the sony hotline. They said, Sonic Stage will not convert Atrac to MP3 or WAV or anything else, except while burning the file to a cd.
It's so stupid! When i want to cut audio taped with the Hi-MD i can choose to "upload" analogue audio to my computer or first upload digital, then burn a cd and in a third step rip this cd again... What the hell is going on in their minds... ???
Hi, im thinking about getting this device but im confused.
Firstly, if i was to downlaod music of of Win MX or Kazaa would i be able to put that onto my sony walkman? Is there an attachment lead in order to do so or would i ave to buiy that seperatly.
Also wat is Atrac?
"Apple is afraid and pretty much is because the wont compete such a big Corporation"
You think Apple isn't a big corporation as well?
can you delete the atrac3 files from your pc after downloading them to the walkman, so the files don't take up too much space on the pc? it does seem a bit pointless from sony not to support mp3 but everything else looks ok
I've never used a hard drive based player, so it is only my assumption that they can be plugged into either a USB or Firewire port (depending on the device, of course) and then used like a portable hard drive.
If this is the case, then Sony is missing a bet. One of the uses of portable players is to download news reports, audio articles, radio downloads, and other online sources. Most of these are in one or more of MP3, WMA, Real, or sometimes Ogg format.
The key point here is that if I can plug my iPod in either at work or in a internet cafe, download and transfer some of these items, and then walk away listening to new material. But -- my own PC was not involved. If my understanding is correct, the big 'mp3 advantage' of the iPod is the ability to load MP3 from any machine. Sony, by comparison, only lets you load from your own machine. For some people, this is no big deal, but for others this is a major limitation.
Can someone confirm or deny my speculations?
hey Help! from using their MD software, and being an avid fan of Kazaa i can tell u that u can convert songs from Kazaa or Win MX or any song drive on ur pc on the SonicStage software - it doesnt take that long and the sound quality, though poorer, is still pretty good. for any normal person the audio quality from ATRAC3 is still good enough, though i can see why the superior MP3 or AAC wud be preferred. yea so dont worry - sonicstage cab also rip song from audio CDs and transfer songs from other formats.
I just filled my wife's mp3 player. The only way she can get more music on is to delete some. I just fill another minidisc. If you're worrying about storing mp3 files and doubling hard drive usage by storing sony format tunes the answer is simple. Delete the sony format files and keep the mp3 files. You have the sony format files on minidisc and if you lose the MD you can convert again from mp3 format. This level of discussion is just nitpicking. As I understand it the iPod battery is not replaceable, once it goes you have to buy a new iPod. Thats expensive. I just regret the act that Sony have moved to rechargeable batteries from alkaline or rechargeable. WE have too many chargers already... mobile phone, PDO, mp3 players... it was easy with alkalin batteries, just change battery and you're ready to go.
uh... iPod batteries are replacable. Very replacable. You should try looking stuff up.
uh... ipod batteries are replacable true but maybe $100 is a bit much for a battery that can only be replaced by apple, its crap doesn't last for like more than a year, as hundreds of people have found out, and only gives out power for like 8 hours max compared to 30 hours from sony
Ive just read all these comments, and the people who are right are those whohave the exeperience of Sony, and probably as big a music fan and sony fan as myself...
I own a Sony LISSA hifif - looks the dogs b0ll0cks, and back in 2000 it was a flagship, as the 3 stacks of amp, cd and MD all connect by firewire....yhet each has its own power plug - madness, the whole deal with this was that it could be controlled via the PC, you could copy Mp3 across and all that sh!t.....fine if youre using win2000, i own a vaio preloaded with xp, which isnt supported IN ANYWAY - all sony software is sh!t, theres no doubt about it - it tries to look good, is ugly, clunky and very unstable...i upgraded to sonic stage 1.5 and it crashed all the time.....the only thing ive found to be anygood is simple burner - for my net md walman, it does what its says - copies a cd to the md and picks up track names via the CDDB - and thats about it - theres a workaroun by using nero to burn mp3s to a cd image and then using a virtual cd drive fool simple burner to use this image and burn that - but what a pain....the iPod has the market share, and it WILL only be those people who havent bee stung by Sony in the past who will buy this tosh - i love sonys styling, dont get me wrong, this looks much bettre thna the ipod, but im also a fan on apple...and the simplicity of apple makes it a winner with even the most technophobic of us....ive started to use itune on my pc as its just nicer....the crazy thing is my sony dvd will play back mp3s off cd and i sometimes do that if im having a partyy or something and play it thorugh my surround amp...why oh why then cant this sodding thing play them instead of the pointless atrac......!??!?!? As siad above atrac shouod just be for MD as thats all it plays...and anything else make MP3 - the whole net MD thing p!ssed me off with it 're-encoding' my mp3 in the background and saving an additonal atrac version on my HDD that i didnt want.....MD is good, and a cheaper alternative to HDD based music, but id be kidding myself if eventually HDD became the same price as MD....and alsogot smaller and larger capacity.....sony should really listen to public opinion...its only a matter of time before me future purhcases are stopped by previous unhappy consumers like us....
OK, I'll admit it - I have a bunch of Sony consumer electronics gear, in fact one could say that over the years I've been something of a Sony enthusiast. However, as I have slowly but surely learned, the current business practises of Sony do not, in any way, shape or form, promote customer loyalty! I have a Sony Clie, for example - an NX70, the one that promised to be so wonderful, supporting both memory stick and CF formats, built in camera, use as an ausio player, blah, blah, as well as being hi-res and being what I thought a logical upgrade from a Palm device? Yeah, right - but as always with Sony these days, the devil is very much in the details! CF support? From Sony, justtheir WiFi card, over priced and not what I was wanting anyway. No support for all my CF cards for file storage. I finally solved that one with a third party driver, but the driver has to wrestle with all sorts of hardships forced on it by the writers having to reverse engineer the Sony non-published APIs, which meant a somewhat difficult install process plus the occasional lockup requiring soft resets. These I guess I'll just have to live with.
Want to play MP3s on it? Sure, it will do this, but do Sony tell you how? Not likely! The files have to go into a special and non-obvious directory, and of the MP3 files I have that all play fine on any other MP3 device, maybe 1/3 won't play on the Sony. Then there is the fludgy software, and of course third party stuff won't replace the Sony MP3 player (again - no developers have access to the Sony APIs....)
The same problems with the NetMD player I have. I wanted to be able to record audio files with a microphone to it. That part works, great - I now have ATRAC3 files on my MD media, cool stuff! OK, let's see - transfer them to the PC via USB, convert to maybe MP3, or burn my lovely audio files to a CD, that's next, right? Wrong! Sony don't let you take an audio file you recorded yourself, even if it's as 'copyright law friendly' as me recording myself singing tunelessly in the bath, off the MD! How silly is that, Sony? Very!
This is a whole step more insidious than the stupid DVD zone stuff - don't get me started on that one, and whilst it's not *just* Sony there, they sure had a huge hand in it.
Long term software support is another bug bear - as observed by others above, this is another area where they suck badly.
Sony needs to wake up and smell the roses. I'm less and less inclined to buy Sony, as are many others, and I'll certainly not be recommending any of their products to anyone else either. They've lost a previously loyal customer, and one who has spent many thousands of his hard earned consumer dollars in the past. I'm not quite at the point of religously avoiding anything Sony, but if they annoy me any more, that's the logical next step. I certainly didn't buy my latest digital camera from them. My next digicam will likely also be a Canon, it most definitely won't be a Sony. Same goes for the video camera I've been thinking of buying and well, the DVD Dual Layer burner I was thinking of buying? The DR700 looks so nice, but...... LCD PC screen anyone? I'll walk right on past that Sony stand, too.
You can banter at Sony all you like:
a) They don't care and
b) Sony do make all there money from software now.
Sony don't even make their PS2, it is manufactured under licence by Toshiba. Sony are a company that will plug their own formats forever. No matter what, however MP3 is a crap format just because everything is supplied in MP3 doesn't mean it is better than ATRAC-3, MP3 is lossful compression you are physically losing some of the music, don't beleive anyone who tells you the song sounds better as MP3 it doesn't. The CD version will always be better, however you cannot tell the difference between ATRAC 3 and CD, it is designed to work with your hearing system you simply can't tell the difference. ATRAC 3 is better than MP3 even if no-one has taken it up, WMA has no value whatsoever.
Sony did have a major battle between VHS and BetaMax but Sony made more money out of BetaMax than the inventors of VHS did.
BetaMax is the broadcast standard, even today it is now DigiBeta but almost every programme you watch on TV is coming from a DigiBeta. Sony make millions out of it! Don't dismiss Sony's entry yet. Apple have produced a product that sells, but it is only one, Sony still dominates the Electronics sector.
I dont know what all of you are talking about how sony is so bad with their products and all. Sony makes the best electronics in the world. Most of you who say it will take hours to change the format of the songs into ATRAC, well your stupid because it only took me a couple of minutes. The iPod took longer than my MD player. Secondly, most of you say that the ATRAC makes the songs bad quality, your also stupid because if you wanted to you could make the songs with extremely good quality but you will still lose the amount of songs that are able to hold on the MD or Hard Drive. So therefore the new Sony Hard Drive Mp3 player is going to be the next best thing in portable audio.
I purchased the top of the line MZ-NH1 minidisc recorder player yesterday for $339. There are things to like about it: Small, gorgeous, metal, great sound. Things not to like about it: Sonic Stage crashed when I tried to upgrade to version 2.1 from their website. Not being able to burn CDs of stuff I recorded live (a local band) last night, due to "copyright restrictions" is infuriating. Being stuck with Sonic Stage and ATRAC is a nightmare. I agree with the other cranky people posting here. I'm sending mine back. I'm thinking I'll get an iRiver 40 GB.
Honestly I don't see why you sony people still defend this atrocity. It doesn't play mp3! It's not compatible with mac! It's own music format is a custom, designed by them! This alone SHOULD be enough. Ok lets see, point number one that most defenders use is that music sounds better in atrac - that may be so, but guess what? If you're just changing formats, say from a downloaded mp3 to atrac3... You're not going to get you're sound quality back!!!
Second point, Sony's player, along with all of Sony's other products, are not mac compatible. There goes 30% of your market Sony (I say 30% since most people who can afford a mac will also go for just about every other awesome hi-tech gadgetry they can get their hands on, whereas windoze users range from rich to poor).
Third point. Up until now, I had never heard of the Atrac3, hell I hadn't even heard of this player! It doesn't have a particularly attractive name, the sound format is unheard of, NO one except die-hard Sony fans think Atrac3 stands a chance in the shadow of AAC or MP3 or WMV in terms of compatibility (and by the way, AAC is better than Atrac3, suckahs) and availability. Get off it, the NW-HD1 died before it came out.
This arguement seems a little pointless if you ask me. Either you will or won't buy one or the other. People who buy Sony products mainly (not all) buy for the name and that is how their consumer products sell. They are NOT the be-all and end all. Their separates Hi-Fi leads a lot to be desired compared to the likes of Arcam, Denon, Rotel etc as with the speakers. However in the land of portables they know what they are doing.
I personally have just bought an MZN-H1 MD player and it is superb. It can do any recording you want on removeable media. A bonus in my opinion, plus it plays all my old MD's and can reformat them to a higher capacity should I want.
I believe that Sony HAVE made a mistake with the NW-HD1 using ATRAC. It was made for MD and not HD machines but as a format it is the best compression system. If you convert MP3 you do not lose quality as there is nothing left to cut off or compress. I know this I studied it at uni for 4 years. But they are strangling those with large MP3 collections, if you are too lazy to delete the ATRAC files after they are created.
I would also agree with the comments on the software Sonicstage is terrible - slow and unstable and not user friendly.
Maybe Sony should release the rights to ATRAC then we would all be happy a better system that all can use!
Anyway these are just my thoughts. Neither are better, just better suited to individual needs unless you are blinded by the Sony PR machine and have to have their stuff through blind belief it is better (usually the case for MD tho they invented it).
Oh yeah and Betamax was actually BETTER than VHS just too expensive oh and propriatry (a lesson to be learnt by Sony there I feel).
This arguement seems a little pointless if you ask me. Either you will or won't buy one or the other. People who buy Sony products mainly (not all) buy for the name and that is how their consumer products sell. They are NOT the be-all and end all. Their separates Hi-Fi leads a lot to be desired compared to the likes of Arcam, Denon, Rotel etc as with the speakers. However in the land of portables they know what they are doing.
I personally have just bought an MZN-H1 MD player and it is superb. It can do any recording you want on removeable media. A bonus in my opinion, plus it plays all my old MD's and can reformat them to a higher capacity should I want.
I believe that Sony HAVE made a mistake with the NW-HD1 using ATRAC. It was made for MD and not HD machines but as a format it is the best compression system. If you convert MP3 you do not lose quality as there is nothing left to cut off or compress. I know this I studied it at uni for 4 years. But they are strangling those with large MP3 collections, if you are too lazy to delete the ATRAC files after they are created.
I would also agree with the comments on the software Sonicstage is terrible - slow and unstable and not user friendly.
Maybe Sony should release the rights to ATRAC then we would all be happy a better system that all can use!
Anyway these are just my thoughts. Neither are better, just better suited to individual needs unless you are blinded by the Sony PR machine and have to have their stuff through blind belief it is better (usually the case for MD tho they invented it).
Oh yeah and Betamax was actually BETTER than VHS just too expensive oh and propriatry (a lesson to be learnt by Sony there I feel).
I am a sony lover. I have to walk away from them when it comes to their receivers and speakers (gotta go with a Denon powering Jamo's), for certain. For everything else, however, from my HDTVs to my PC, and especially my portables, I have been very pleased with Sony, despite the understood price premium. Now that we finally have broadband in my area, I will be joining (absurdly late, I know) the digital music frenzy. I think the proprietary approach to the new HD device is a mistake, and rather transparently an attempt to force people who adore sony, and perhaps some who do not, to go with their "Connect" music service. I have to say that my initial impressions of connect have been wholly positive, and this is the service I would go with, regardless of format. Still, I will not go with the HD device, but rather one of the trick new H1-MD's instead. I do not need thousands of songs at the push of a button, and I find swappind out little MDs a much faster way to navigate through a music library than any software menu system - no matter how trick - ever could be. Since I don't, as stated above, have a vast music collection yet, the MP3-to-ATRAC conversion question will not even apply to me. (Additionally, I will have no need to transfer the music to anything BUT the MDs - XM satellite radio covers my car audio needs). I think that Sony, while alienating current digital music aficionados, as we have seen here with many of you, will have strong pull with all of the new users that are added every year. Remember who will be buying these! A kid, new to digital music, maybe 11 years old, asks for a digital music player for a holiday gift, etc. The player is FOR the kid, but won't the PARENTS be the purchasers?? What brand will people of an older generation reach for, Apple or Sony?? I think Sony wins that battle, hands down. As time goes on, if ATRAC proves as useful for the HD device as it has for MDs. Sony will be positioned strongly to attract any and all consumers new to the market. Everyone on this page seems to think that all comsumersfunction as they do, and that the demographic is static. If ATRAC survives at all, in the HD device, for a short, critical period of time - Sony will be a player in this market segment.
My major question has to do with storage on the PC. Does the Sony software, no matter how poorly engineered, or whatever else has been said, even provide for not simply copying, but for storing and organizing the music on the PC (like a Musicmatch Jukebox, etc.)? If not, will the other programs in existance even recognize ATRACs on the PC as being media files at all? IF anyone can fill me in on this, I would greatly appreciate your time and thoughts. Good discussion, guys! Thanks!
One big failing of the player is it needs Sonic Stage. Sonic stage could be politely described as a video store run by possed Nazzis who are intent on not actually servicing the customers.
Put simply the program doesn't work, and support arent interested.
Infact it is my opinion they infringe your creativity, which infringes music copywrite.
Namely your right to make a compilation album. You only get to use the the track 3 times (if it records). Then it must be checked back in from the unit.
What happens if your player gets damaged or your computer for that matter. Oh dear it doesn't care. You can not get the rights back, despite this being a feature of sonic stage. It doesn't work! Haha!
Heres the funny bit create your own music (i.e compose anew song or a speech) and send the file to the player and Sony will restrict you to the number of times you can record it. (And no this doesn't mean that sony have just signed a contract to sell your material.)
Avoid all sony music players that require Sonic Stage they are too constricted with Digital Managment Rights and therefore only appeal to the music compannies.
You the customer have been given the last thought with these music products. AVOID
Do I sound like a bitter ex sony fan, yip! But do a search on sonic stage problems and you will see I am not the only one.
I had my own encounter with Sonic Stage.
I purchased a Sony Clie PDA and was trying to transfer several CDs from my music library to the memory stick using the provided manual. I spent hours and crashed the computer several times with no result. The Sonic Stage would demand that I use Magic Gate memory stick since the music files were to be converted into ATRAC format and the regular memory stick wouldn’t support this conversion. After several phone calls and substantial time spent with Sony’s tech support I was finally told that the device indeed supports the MP3 format (as assured in manual) ant there is a simple way of dragging and dropping the MP3 files into a folder in the memory stick called MSAUDIO. The later process didn’t require Sonic Stage.
Conclusion: I like Sony’s new 20 Gig music player, and Sony in General, and would seriously consider buying it, but the thought that I may have to go through their Sonic Stage and ATRAC conversion (what a waste of time)….. No thanks.
I just bought one of these, thought it would be cool for easy transfering of data and personal storage... but it is not. In fact, my expectation of what this player should've been like (from previous players) was basically a storage device with the option to play music with multiple codecs like a pc. Why the hell not... as everyone has mentioned before, this isn't easy to do as I found out personally, and makes assumptions about the way I'm going to use my player. Sony needs to realize that people are more educated generally about certain file sizes being bigger then others with different quality elements (just look at traditional mp3 and wma battle).
Needless to say, I'm not playing their game because I don't have to! I will get an iriver 40 GB that rocks with everything I want and EXPECTED from previous players - real functionality! The only thing I don't like is the size and looks of the iriver, but you have to sacrifice somethings it seems because sony can't pull their heads out of their assis.
Hello?! I dont care if the i-pod is a brilliant device and it's good-looking. Sony are trying to make things more interesting for us, does it really matter that our file formats have to be converted beforehand? Atrac3 just means you can get far more onto your player - isn't that what we all want? Plus Sony has incredible battery playback - 30 hours! Compared to Apple's most recent (and pitiful) 12 hours. Also whoever was moaning about how attrac3 won't play on Mac computers - get the hint nothing does these days (except i-pod which was made by the same people).
Also I was hoping someone could confirm the rumour about the colour touch-screen Toshiba mp3 player? I hope they hurry up about it!
I have had a 40gb Ipod for eight months now and it's completely amazing. However, it's a little bit heavy and the battery is completely useless..leave it for a day and it has drained flat. So I spotted the new sony last week and couldn't resist it. I have read your comments above and i am of the opinion that steve jobs is arguing with the sony corp. They are both good systems with flaws. The sony is very portable and for anyone over the age of 35 will mean a lot to the inventors of portable music as a result the deserve an open mind. The new sony is a sexy gadget and we are all impressed with gadgets otherwise we wouldn't buy any of them. As far as loading music I have imported albums onto my computer..time was comparable to itunes and the transfer from the computer to the device is more or less the same as the ipod. As far as importing mp3 etc you can't do this with itunes, they have to be imported so what is all the negative opinion about? Sound wise both devices are great. I can't decide which is better...both are good. finally I tried to buy an Ipod three years ago and Apple hadn't provided a device for PC!! so for the comments about ATRAC..bear this in mind, Sony aren't stupid their system is their system. Enjoy your sony.
I just bought an Vaio Desktop Computer with Sonic Stage Version 1.6 installed. I liked the Program and was impressed by the Visualizer. Short time later I bought the HD-1 and the old Sonic Stage version couldn´t find the HD-1 Player so I had to install the new Version 2.1 which was delivered with the player-the new version is desined for the player and it does not nearly have the features like the old version. Any idea, if there is a option how to run the old version and how the programm would find the HD-1, so I could transfer my songs with the program?
Unfortunatly the Player is new here in Germany so there is no expirience with this player and even SONY-Germany is unable to help me. Somebody knowing any Adress, where I could send my questions to??
Would be glad for any help :-)
MP3-playing Walkmans are being launched by Sony, and existing NW-series Walkmans will also have a firmware update for accommodating the de-facto Internet standard for compressed music files.
As we reported back in September - Sony does u-turn for MP3 support - Sony has abandoned its position on only supporting its own ATRAC-format. The devices, which have up to 1GB of Flash memory, are Sony's first to accommodate the more popular MP3 format.
The snappily entitled NW-E95 has a memory capacity of 512MB (roughly the equivalent of storing 23 CDs) and the NW-E99 1GB (roughly equivalent to 46 CDs).
Sony claims the lightweight devices, which weigh 40 grams and have a backlit LCD screen, have a battery life of 70 hours. They also come with a neck strap - the whole point of the original Walkman, of course, was to enjoy music on the move.
'Today, we are introducing two new models, with high capacity, competitively priced and with direct MP3 compatibility, which we believe will further develop the credibility of the WALKMAN brand in the Personal Network Audio Market,' said Gregory Kukolj, General Manager for Personal Audio Europe at Sony.
'At Sony, we understand the needs of music lovers and the different ways people consume and interact with music because of our great heritage in the personal audio arena,' he added, despite the fact that other digital music player manufacturers have incorporated the standard in their devices for years. Indeed it was Sony's need as a music publisher that drove it to develop its ATRAC3 format, which constrains the way consumers transfer their music between devices.
The new Walkmans will be available from the end of November. UK pricing has not yet been announced.
Before the end of October existing owners of NW-series Walkmans - the NW-E55 and NW-E75 - will also be able to download software from the Internet to enable them to play MP3 files as well, in addition to Sony's ATRAC3plus compressed music.
There's news about the new Sony walkmans that play MP3 on http://products.sony.co.uk/sony_walkman.asp - it looks like it's just the flash memory walkmans that are playing MP3. It doesn't say anything about the hard disk walkman.
I have both Ipod and the Sony HD1. I would say that the Sony is better than Ipod for sure.
1) 20GB space is enough for most or even all people.
2) It's small! It wouldn't bugg you too much where ever you put it.
3) Ipod's back (the silver part), really easy to get scratched up and get's pretty ugly back there.
4) Much longer battery life.
5) The software is better if you are the kind of person that downloads from WinMX or Kazaa or any other P2P.
6) The color. The Ipod has a really girly color to it. Why don't they make it like Sony and put normal colors?!
7) Ipod headphones not compatable with any other. (WTF are you gonna do if it breaks?)
8) charging time is less for more battery life.
Many others but I think you get my point eh?
i have got one and there in no option for 128kb/s only 256 or 48 that really pissed me off. it also took all night and day to convert @ realtime. its super sexy and small but it just disapoints me
The Atrac3 Plus format is a better codec then MP3 for overall sound quality. If you have ever had the opportunity to attend any of Sony's demonstrations they do a very thorough comparison of the two formats at different bit rates and the sound quality from Atrac3 is significantly better. Another thing that is not advertised by Sony but is discussed at the demonstration is the build quality of NWHD1 the unit can dropped from chest level "I'm 6 foot, so do the math" and the units harddrive will not get damaged nor will the unit. The device has a velocity modulation sensor that pulls the reader of the disc during an accidental drop. I watched the demonstrator drop the unit three or four times from a height that would have killed an iPod and the unit functioned just fine. Anyone who dismisses the battery life issue is an idiot as well, what is the point of having 40GB if your units dies after 8 hours, I have been on business flights that last longer then that. 30 hours compared with 8 hours...Sorry I'll put up with the conversion process of Atrac to get those extra 22 hours. You know why Sony's battery lasts longer...not because of better batteries, guess which companies rechargable cells are in the iPod? Thats right their Sony cells, you can verify this online if you look hard enough. The reason the Sony charge lasts longer is because Sony's unit is more energy efficient due to intergration and design. Also you want MP3 compatibility...you'll get it via a firmware update...and it will be drag and drop. Anyway all this hard drive talk is a flash in the pan, Flash players are the next wave and Sony already has the smallest unit and even with the new MP3 drag and drop option on their new series I'll still convert my files to Atrac because I can fit nearly twice as many Songs with comparable audio into the same memory space and I get 70 hours out of a single battery. What the hell are you all complaining about. You all act like your tech wizards here and you have all the answers. My recommendation is to do your research before you start bitching about a manufacturer. If your not sure about the quality or technology the don't open your mouth. Thats the problem with these review sites, you get a couple of "know it all geeks" in one area and they all want to piss in the ring. If you need the real specs for the iPod and The Sony Hard Disk player let me know I'll post them for you all and you'll see that the Sony unit squashes Apples unit. If you need comparisons between Atrac3 and MP3 I'll post those too and we'll see who comes out on top. Oh and by the way the beta format was better then VHS and Sony made millions off the format when every single news station and security camera all over the world went to beta max and kept using the format right up till today. Being a Sony hater is just trendy bullshit on this site.
So, I hear Sony has decide to play with everyone and SonicStage has an MP3 Add-on Program (according to the SS Help screen). Does anyone know where to find it? Also, does anyone know of a program I can use with a NW-E99 instead of SonicStage?
As Posted by Liam on Jul 16, 2004;
I would really like to know if you can delete the atrac3 files from your pc after downloading them to the walkman, so the files don't take up too much space on the pc?
If this is not the case then sod HDD and stick to MD. Please tell me (I have money on this with the missus).
I got one of these NW-HD1 players for Christmas. Already I'm selling it. I, like many others, have been taken in by Sony's marketing blurb saying that it is "MP3 compatible".
I am not stupid - I did my research before I chose it. I knew the truth - that the NW-HD1 cannot play MP3s directly.
However, it's worse than this. Quite simply, Sony's SonicStage software, which Sony says can be used to convert MP3s to ATRAC for storing on the NW-HD1 does NOT work. It crashes whenever you attempt to import an MP3 file. This is with the latest version of software which came with the NW-HD1 and Windows XP Professional on a P4 3.2GHz machine.
When you thought it couldn't get worse than this, I have found that Sony will not support you if you are running SonicStage on your own computer! In the operating manual, they state that if your computer is "personally constructed" they will not support you.
I have been able to import direct from CD using SonicStage, but this is of no use to me (and I expect most other people) who already have a huge MP3 archive. In any case, the conversion is slow and seems to result in a poor quality result.
I would NOT recommend this to anyone, unless the NW-HD1 can be modified or reconfigured to support MP3 files natively. It's a very nice piece of hardware, but Sony have turned it into an expensive paperweight.
i just got this thing for chrismas as well and i dont see nothing wrong wit it... yeh i do wish it played mp3 directly but it really isnt a big deal to me... and you can be on any computer as long as you have an account sony's connect music store which is free... then u can add any computer to the list which may be a hassle to some... but i dont see the need to be able to get music from any computers... overall i like it alot... it also comes with a docking station which can be used as a USB port or as a charger... i was leaning towards iPod because i knew it was more user-friendly and EVERYONE has it... most people seem to like it but i've come across quite a few people who had trouble with it... somebody said that it was made so that you have to go in the apple store periodically to get something... not sure what though... but i think they are both great products...
In reply to "Robins" comments about his computer crashing, im sorry but i have a 1.2 GHz speed computer and whenever i import tracks, it does not crash, bit of a problem there for you mate. Your computers not as good as you thought it would be.
There may be a helpful advantage being released soon which solves all of your problems relating to the MP3 format of the HD1. An upgrade is available allowing the user to simply use MP3 formatting and not ATRAC. look at the website below.
http://www.sonydigital-link.com/DNA/Hotnews/NWHD1_Upgrd.asp?l=en
thanks
I've just ordered a HD3 player and cant wait to see it. I loved the IPOD but what use is 8 hours playback if I go on a long flight or similar, the long playback and small size swayed me to Sony, I also love Sony products.
I've been using Sonicstage with my Net MD player, must admid it kept crashing on my hi spec home PC but worked fine on the laptop and slower PC at work. For the Size and Battery life and the fact it looks well nice I can live with that and once my music is on there I wont need to keep updating it that often.
When I used Sonic Stage I got around the copyright thing by deleting the atrac files (I had MP3 files on another drive) and just re installing SonicStage Software, a little hassle but nothing much really.
I just got this and so far i dont mind the Atrac3....the only bad thing about it is some wasted time and some people say space but i keep all my music on my computer anyway for lan parties and such, its also good to have a backup copy of everything....The Screen is very nice and is lit up in green, ive got another MP3 player made by samsung and the only problem i have with that one is that it only holds 128 megs of music where as this one just owns it.
I wish i could put the 2 together so i could have my radio tuner MP3 format and recording options...also my samsung one has a good settings control where i can chnage the color of my backlight, thats pretty cool.
i wouldn't recomend getting this MP3 player unless you are a music fanatic and H8 apple like myself...ive got tons of music and like all kinds of it so i think this was the right move for me.
the only other thing i wish it woulda come with is a window in the carring case so you could use the case to protect it even when ur not changing the song so you dont have to rip it out everytime you want to do something...
carring case is nice soft velvet though
if u have a mac ur an idiot
the computers are slow and rubbish compared to any computer on the pentium 4 or 3 for tht matter
and they cost soo much for soo little
i have a sony and it doesnt even take long to put the songs on player
infact its jus about quiker thann my brothers ipod and it is built and looks bettr
Just picked one up. Upgraded from being a minidisc user so I am already familiar with the quirks of SonicStage. Yes, I know that in two weeks here in the US the NW-HD3 is coming out and will play MP3s natively but frankly I want ATRAC, I have done simple listening tests side by side and agree ATRAC is a richer, warmer sound than MP3.
It depends on what kind of user you are I guess. All my music comes from burnt albmus so converting to ATRAC doesn't bother me. If I were someone who had a hard-drive full of MP3s from Kazaa then admittedly this wouldn't be the best choice for me as far as file-format is concerned.
But all that said, I'm already extremely pleased with my purchase. It's true - until you get one in your hand, or your pocket you don't realise how small and light this thing is. The 30hr playback for me was a big seller as I use the unit all day listening to music at work, and have gotten use to Minidisc batteries lasting these kinds of lengths. Side by side with colleagues' iPods it just feels so much smaller and lighter.
I did a lot of research and wanted to add some information that might help people thinking of taking the plunge, because I feel this is a unit that has a had a lot of unfair bad press - a chance to right some wrongs, and agree with others on some matters:
1. Volume. The unit has been cited as having low volume. It definitely depends on the headphone match-up. With in-ear solutions like the fontopia headphones, you'll never be able to blast past 1/2 - 3/4 of the total volume before your ears explode - believe me it's plenty loud enough, but with my DJ style headphones it is noticeably quieter. This can easily be corrected with a custom EQ of your choice which noticeably increases volume the moment you play with it but some tracks can get drowned out by the NYC subway.
2. Shuffle - some reviews have stated that the unit can't shuffle. Not true. I agree it is not as immediately obvious as an ipod but once you understand how it works you'll see that you can shuffle at multiple points in the folder-tree, such as shuffling the whole HD, or shuffling just an artist, or just a genre, or just an album. Plenty of flexibility here once you understand it
3. Sonicstage - seriously it's not that bad, and growing up through the various versions with my minidisc I can tell you it's a lot better than it was. My only real frustration is that you only see items on the unit displayed in the order you put them on the HD, but you can drag and drop this order to your taste. Hopefully future versions of sonicstage will address this.
4. Gapless playback - yes it's here - and if you call yourself a music fan you should demand it. It allows you to hear albums in the manner in which they were intended without false stop-gaps of silence occuring between tracks that were designed to blend together.
So there you have it - hope you have the information you need to make an informed decsion. I din't want to become another white-earbudded iPod zombie (NYC is crawling with them). I care about build-quality, battery life, and most of all sound-quality. In the display case next to the Sony the creatives, iRivers and Apples really just looked so plasticky.
Hope you enjoy yours.
If I may set a few points straight !
1.
The HD-1 DOES NOT play mp3 files (unless you shell out more money for the special sony mp3 upgrade ((at this point Id like to scream loads of expletives)))
2.
The HD-3 DOES play mp3 files (so why dont sony reward its consumers by saying "hey, we know you spent £300 on our portable audio system, so heres a firmware upgrade "FREE" instead of letting us shaft you for another £20)
3.
The ATRAC format is every bit as good as MP3, It all depends on the stats of the encoding...
And to finish.....
I bought one of these for a xmas prezzie for my girlfriend and she loves it - and I was so impressed with it until I found out it wont play MP3, Now, the logic is silly cause it converts quick and the quality is great - Ive put loads of albums on it and they only take up a very small space... - So why am I pissed off ? - Well, The reason is that I asked in the shop for an MP3 player and It was included in the items the shop assistant showed me.. - sometimes its pathetic to be doing things as a matter of principal, but the damn things going back if I cant find the firmware upgrade free somewhere on the internet.. - I have bought a wonderful device - but I cant help[ feeling as though Ive been lied to..
During 2004 I bought the Sony MZ-NHF800, installed the included SonicStage software on both the desktop and laptop computers, then upgraded on prompt to version 2.3. I started to enjoy the included AM/FM radio and HiMD format, recording my mixes and transferring them to the PC. After this I then became frustrated as many on this forum have, when unable to edit the MD recorded material, (like live band mixes from my own gigs), after it was transferred from the MD to the PC. I heard of a software available that converts OMA to Wav, and thankfully Sony now has a link on its website to download its own version of it. Then when i had to head out on an interstate trip, i took the MD player and several MDs of gigs to edit. Imagine my surprise when unable even to transfer to the Laptop because it said "The selected tracks originated from another computer". All i had done was transfer them at home, and name them on the MD media. I hadn't removed them from the MD, and now it was restricting my OWN music recording. Wake up Sony! Does anyone know how to get around this as i need to finish a backlog of work!!
Hi everyone!
I get a HiMD a few days ago and the sonic satge crapware almost ruined all the fun.
Later, searching on the net for a solution or hack or pacht to skip/avoid the use of that prog i ended founding this solution:
http://www.minidiscussion.com/boards/mp3/index.cgi?read=10381
If everything goes fine, the optional tools to get rid of sonic stage must be Nero and the Simple Burner; maybe Daemon if that suport .nrg image files.
ok, i hope this can be of help of ppl out there.
The Sony Network Walkman NW-HD1 and NW-HD3 will play MP3, WMA, ATRAC3 and ATRAC3plus. You do not need to convert you library to the ATRAC3 format and you can have a mix of MP3, ATRAC3, etc.
I have a big collection of songs in MP3 format but recently have realized that the ATRAC3 format is far superior! So, all new CD's that I transfer to my Sony NW-HD3 is now in the ATRAC3 format. You can compress more and not sacrafice sound quality as with MP3!
Fret not, YOU DO NOT have to convert you library! So, this great walkman with 30 HOURS of battery life is the best player on the market... right now. It scans your songs and shuts down the HD while playing back saving tons of battery juice! Another great product by Sony and it is Made in Japan which suggests that it is far superior to the junk from China! I rather pay more for a top notch item from Japan then pay a 50 dollars less and get a crapola from China!
Rock on Sony!
I uploaded some songs onto some MDs before formatting my PC.
Reinstalled everything, now Im trying to get my songs back onto my PC and I get the following message:
"The Selected Tracks originated from another computer....Cannot transfer the selected tracks"
Does nayone know how to bypass this!
" Ipod headphones not compatable with any other. (WTF are you gonna do if it breaks?)"
Are you demented?
Hi, I am really interested in the problem that Creog (#64) wrote about. Does anyone know how to solve it. It´s a major and a annoying flaw that I would like to go around. I got some interviews recorded on my MD that would be nice to transfer to my laptop.
Please help me,
Niclas
Hi, I am really interested in the problem that Creog (#64) wrote about. Does anyone know how to solve it. It´s a major and a annoying flaw that I would like to go around. I got some interviews recorded on my MD that would be nice to transfer to my laptop.
Please help me,
Niclas
I am the owner of the NW-HD1. The following things sucks-
1. It needs a power connection to connect to PC. So you have to create a the wirey mess everytime you want to transfer and it does not become handy.
2. The conversion of MP3s to ATRAC files. Its a pain, takes a lot of time before you start enjoying the music.
I am still making me use it and not go in my showcase. If it does, I should have preserved the price tag too.