Live from DefCon: The Sniper Yagi

Josh is at DefCon this weekend and sends back his first report on what he's found there:

What looks like an M-16 with a huge silencer instead of a barrel? The Sniper Yagi, of course. As likely to get you thrown in jail as logged onto a WiFi network, the Sniper Yagi replaces the barrel and firing mechanism with a 14.6 dBi yagi antenna and can get you online at up to ten miles — assuming your aim is good (playing lots of SilentScope helps). With dual Sony-Camcorder batteries this thing will lasts for up to eight hours, but really it's all about using a crazy looking gun to get online. A full How-To will be available, but if you get busted don't come crying to us.

[Thor @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

get your gun facts straight.

[Randy @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

So, there's a wireless group in Washington DC working on WiFi coverage on the mall. Last time I read about it the coverage wasn't complete. Looks like this gadget will extend that coverage. What if, say, I set this up at, oh, the Washington Monument pointed towards the Capital, do you think the Secret Service would have a problem? Just want good connectivity... right?

[Travis J I Corcoran @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

Very cool, but that doesn't look anything like an AR-15/M-16. I looks like a shotgun with an aftermarket stock.

[Jay @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

2 of the 3 readers commenting above appear to have real guns on the brain, just like this guy ...
http://p068.ezboard.com/fcornershopfrm2.showMessage?topicID=353.topic

[Tallpole @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

So do you have to calibrate the sight? :)

Anyone know what the gain on the Yagi is like, or how useful the sighting is?

For what it's worth Jay, as geeks, accuracy in the facts tends to be an important thing- so yes, it is a gadget site... where people correct each other as they should!

[LW @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

OK, on a rifle you use a telescopic sight to get pointing accuracy of around 1 minute of arc (1/60th of a degree, or 1 inch at 100 yards).

The half-power beam width of this antenna is going to be about five degrees (ten times the apparent width of the moon). You don't need a telescopic sight. If you have drunk less than (say) 30 beers in the last hour, you could line the antenna up by hand.

Now to the "10 mile" claim. A normal AP antenna is a dipole. A dipole has a gain of 2.1dBi. Subtract that from 14.6dBi and you get about 12 dB. Every 6dB gets you twice the range, so 12dB gets you four times the range.

So how far does your current AP (really) go? If you say 20 yards, this super-duper-sniper-thingo will give you 80 yards. If you think your current Wifi is good to 100 yards, you will now be able to do 400.

LW

[DensityDuck @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

...the concept of a wifi antenna built up to look vaguely like a rifle, or the gun nuts etc. coming out of the woodwork to describe how inaccurate the writeup is...

[Ian Wood @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

DensityDuck--

Yeah, because anyone who knows anything about guns is a gun nut.

[Ben @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

LW, even four times the typical range is kind of optimistic anyway, isn't it?

If the author wants to get technical with gun terms such as referring to specific models, he should at least do a little research.

I'd rank this idea right up there with taping road flares to your chest and walking around malls yelling "FOR ALLAH!" or going into a bank with a cheque taped to a chainsaw.

And I don't know about where the rest of you live, but around here pointing a rifle at occupied buildings is a quick way to attract *real* incoming fire from police and non-police alike.

[Cowboy Man @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

Hi Folks,

I'm the guy who built the Sniper Yagi, and we presented it at DC here this past friday.

I'm reading through these comments with some amusement, so I thought I'd set some facts straight for those who're actually interested in knowing them:

1) The stock is a sawed off Ruger 10-22. Just a plain old stock - no receiver, no firing mechanisms, etc. Just a stock I bought off the net.

2) The Antenna is a 14.6dBi antenna from Antennex System. There's also a 500mw amp bolted on the stock, which helps things out a bit.

3) The estimates for range at 10 miles are probably a bit high, unless you've got an antenna on the other end as well. If so, then yes, you can definitely do 10 miles, line of sight. If it's just some goof's Linksys router in his house, I've tested it at around 1 mile and it works great.

4) When I flip the amp on, I get an approximate gain of 27dB over the unamplified signal, according to the iwconfig stats on my linux box that I hook the SY up to.

5) The howto is up at http://www.shmoocon.org/sniperyagi - feel free to check it out for more details.

Hope this helps.
-Cowboym

[djspeed @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

How do you sight this thing?
I mean with a gun it makes a nice whole in the target, but this?!! What methods do you recommend to ensure the cross hair is where the strongest signal is?

Also for all you gun freaks this thing looks more like an MP-5SD, Buschman, or the British L2A1 Sterling SMG (Canada labeled it the C1).

[djspeed @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

How do you sight this thing?
I mean with a gun it makes a nice whole in the target, but this?!! What methods do you recommend to ensure the cross hair is where the strongest signal is?

Also for all you gun freaks this thing looks more like an MP-5SD, Buschman, or the British L2A1 Sterling SMG (Canada labeled it the C1).

[RF Sigint @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

...OH...MY...GOD.!!!

How to put yourself in harms way.

Why doesn't he just put on a "Manhole Suit" and lay on an expressway.

[dorindamay @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

Hmmmm..."10 miles line of sight". Allowing for curvature of the earth, how high (in altitude, silly)do you have to be to get 10 miles line of sight?

[dorindamay @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

At DFW airport recently an unsuspecting member of a rock band had his luggage confiscated because he had an unusual microphone packed that looked like a pipe bomb on the x-ray. Caused quite a stir...they evacuated the terminal, hauled his suitcase away in the bomb disposal unit and sent the FBI to his home in Alabama to question his neighbors. Maybe he should get one of these WiFi antennas as a compliment to his microphone.....

[Dave Bell @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

I can imagine there being a bit of a difference between getting a signal on this, and getting a decent data-rate.

But do a bit of digging into the Russian Zenith cameras, and their Photosniper. That night suggest a slightly less conspicuous look to use.

[everwondering1 @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

i like this, it looks pretty damn good, is creative, and funny, which is what i assume it was made for. and for dj speed, this looks nothing like an mp5 of any sort.

[nikster @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

what i would want is something with maybe, say, 3 barrels and a sensor that can measure the direction of incoming signals, adjusting the antennas so that all 3 are connected at all times. put that on the roofs in a city and we finally have seamless WiFi not owned by anyone.
something that automatically connects to everything within sight and that then creates a little WiFi bubble and spreads the joy... just popped into my head as i thought "what if everyone had one of those"?

[Kudzu_Kid @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

Hey LW!

Greatly enjoyed your posting!

But when I went to school, power DOUBLED for every THREE db, not SIX. See, for example, http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/102/wlan/powervalues-23231.html Many other sources bear this out (pick any good RF/engineering type company/org or check Google). And that's "theory". We know reality is slightly different! But we can generally say "Power doubles for every 3 db of gain".

Also, I think the gain of that particular antenna (looks like an Antenex YE series) is 12.5db, just to help hone in the calculations. I've guesstimated the cost of this thing (considering new antenna, new amp) at around $750-$800. Suddenly a Pringles can doesn't sound so bad... ;-) 10 miles in the REAL world?!?! In deep space maybe! I'm "skeptical" of that claim! I'd settle for a a half mile or a full mile in the universe I live in!

Again, I enjoyed your posting. Looked to be the most cogent by far. I'm sure the IT mgr at DEFCON were appropriately impressed and horrified. Not much more than an expensive "prop" though! It doesn't "look like an M-16" -- it looks like a money pit!!!!

You can e-mail me here:
engadget AT pferris DOT com

[hans grubber @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

great toy!and it looks like a real gun too!oooh goody.unfortunately i live on a small fascist island called england (you know,the one with a german royal family,no writen constitution,and a zenophobic attitude towaeds all foreign johnies).i can tell you for a fact if i tried using that thing in the u.k. i would be shot dead on the spot by the local police.

work
consume
die.

[injun man @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

yahey
man
you palefaces are major loons!technically the gun-shapped thingy is quite brilliant.neat bit of inventive engineering.personnaly i use a pie dish,sitting on edge,behind my desktop aeria...airea...antenna.its bloody useless,but nobody is going to shoot me for using it!oh yeah and 6db has twice the gain of 3db and 9db has 4 times the gain of 3db and 12db has 8 times the gain of 3db etc...etc...
we dont inherit the land from our fathers,we borrow it from our children.

[Pete Spankster @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

I really enjoyed the article, and some of the posts too. what still amazes me is how people cant just look past the tiny detail mistakes. to the average user m16 means big gun, and thats probably what the writer meant. since this isnt a marketing ad or a record nnouncement, the precise details of distance aren't that important and to rant on about it for hours is jsut stupid! get a life people. of course most media exagerate figures anyway so chill and after the first 20 corrections, let it slide...

[Deaf @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

If you're using this Reciving AP pointing.. Then why not attrach it on the roof and build the motor that'll move up, down, right, and left.. Programming in your computer in list of AP... So, that way if you lost the conntect then it'll automatically change to different postion of AP... Of course with THEIR permission to allow you to use their AP... (it does not have to be on the roof.. it could be attrach it on any where out side.. with the phone transmitting..) kinda complex if you add up some idea to reciving the AP...
Well, Keep up...
Deaf...

[Mrs Windsor @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

Hey Hans, if you don't like it then you know what you can do!

Its the US after all, thats why it has to be shaped like a gun.

[Happy Hank antenna elmer @ Dec 19th 2005 12:03AM]

Ok enouph BULLSHIT. A Dipole antenna has 0 gain. Db gain measured correctly, always uses
the dipole as 0 and any thing you get over this
is dbd gain. No other measurement matters.
Secondly, Your amp is more correctly a receive
preamplifier. Yeah it can "hear better" but
it wont give you one bit of transmit(upload)
gain. Those claims you have made of 14db gain
and your final ERP are WAY OFF!
A parabolic grid reflector or dish has a real
gain of 24 dbd. Your toy gun (and it is a toy)
although neat to look at, Is really a whole lot
of work and expense for very little gain.
I will stick to my dish thank you!