Nintendo DS wireless hub trick up its sleeve?
posted September 28th 2004 12:38PM
A recent flurry of rumors and pictures has handheld gamers going nuts
with speculation over the thought that Nintendo still has a huge trump card up its sleeve. A batch of pictures
featuring creepy marionettes with the words "Find(s)me" along with a shot of a lone boy in a forest using a DS as some
sort of navigation device seem to point to the possibility of a massive DS wireless network that's bigger and badder
than we previously thought. The DS could act as both a wireless 802.11 device and as a repeater hub. In other words,
you won't need a wireless router nearby to get online with these things - you'll just need someone close enough to
connect to, and he'll be able to connect you to someone just as close to him even if that person isn't so near you, and
so on. Potentially-huge networks of gamers could appear organically and play against one another regardless of
pre-installed routers or proximity. While we worry a bit about the lone boy in the forest (should people know he's out
there alone, and should his DS be announcing as much? Go home, boy, go home!), the possibility of a spontaneous
wireless gaming network of multiple hubs is straight up amazing. Or is it downright creepy?
[Thanks, Badtz]
Depending on the range of these things, if this was true... it would change the world. Think of the hacking possibilities.
On 802.11 mesh networks each hop cuts your bandwidth in half. So if each device has 11b with a max throughput of about 6.5mbit after overhead then after about 5 hops its pretty worthless. Thats before you even start to deal with latency issues.
What's that Lassie.. Timmy's in a well? Out past Sutter's Mill. Why are you barking? Just text someone for help you stupid cur and let me finish my game.
Seems that if it shows him using it as a navigational aid, that GPS seems more likely. If it is WiFi, I'm sure it's WBS, like in Airport Express. I considered buying one for all my neighbors between me & the beach so that I can get WiFi coverage on the sand.
This is absolutely amazing. In high-concentration areas, it really could change the way you think about networks. In places like Japan, Nintendo could essentially build a wireless DS-Internet of networked gamers to play with each other.
They say you can have up to 16 players in games or in chats. Imagine if those players were anywhere were a network connection available. It makes the PSP’s Infrared “wireless” gaming seem like a totally weak afterthought.
is nothing new. It's just a lilly-pad network applied to a handheld...
Market saturation will have to be pretty extreme to see this amount to anything outside of a D&D convention.
I would guess you need to be able to talk directly to the AP. Communicating through another handheld device would just further drain their battery. Although it would make an amusing "real world" aspect to the gaming. You have to continue to place yourself physically just outside the range of the AP but within range of your opponent until you deplete their battery and win.
Seriously.....Think about this - if you were allowed to start a heads-up videogame with someone over the network, and then someone inbetween you and your oponent turned off their game boy advance - boom your game is lost.
That would really suck - wouldn't it?
Nintendo is going to revolutionize multiplayer gaming. Check out the link and read the information about the "Find Me" graphic, marionette.
The Find Me graphic actually has a faint "S" in between the words putting a hidden DS in the picture.
The marionette has a picture of a DS and another device, perhaps a cell phone for connecting wirelessly or GPS for playing location specific games.
The word Marionette could also be read as "Mario Net", a Nintendo service to help notify you when your friends are online.
I say, keep your eyes and ears open. Nintendo has some serious press conferences coming up and when was the last time they launched something without some surprises. They can keep a poker face like nobody's business, unlike Sony who whores their wares around and publishes countless spec sheets for years before pulling back the specs and under delivering on the final product.
From Nintendo's site:
http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?articleid=6a6f583d-1711-47be-b03c-d64d6bdd1d66
...And a Nintendo DS in sleep mode will spring to life if it senses another DS in transmitting range, alerting users to each other’s presence and setting the stage for an impromptu conversation or game session.
Ad-hoc may not be anything new, but in this case with the number of DS's we'll likely see, this could be an amazing feature. Reminds me of the Cybiko's wireless features, which piggy-backed and created their own mesh, and allowed chat and H2H gaming, and internet access. Now the Cybiko didn't ever really take off in the kinds of numbers that made that meshing a success, but every 9-14 year-old is going to have one come Dec. 25th, so the that will make a big difference. If users can share internet connections and play locally and over the internet simultaneously, it would make for some amazing possibilities.
but rather you'll be able to chat and game at the same time... meh.
You know...
Nintendo did mention that the DS isn't just another game system, it is the "Third Pillar" of their company. (The other two being the GameCube and the GameBoy Advance)
What if the DS is a communication device, first and foremost with the added benefit of being able to play games? Think of it as Nintendo's response to the BlackBerry or the Danger Sidekick. Rather than using this communication tool to get work done, it is focused on being fun.
I have to agree with what others say, I think Nintendo is hiding something about the DS. Something big.
I want to know how Nintendo can keep such secrets though. They aren’t a small company and they HAVE to clue in developers on these things. How come they can develop products like the DS and the SP in total secrecy and only let out the information they want to let out?
You WILL see VOIP sooner than you expect. They didn’t put that headphone jack on there for no reason. There are even rumblings that Sega is going to port over Phantasy Star Online, complete with voice chat!
Communication IS the killer app.
You can play with others, or you can play with yourself.
Isn't Nintendo the one who first put 4 controller ports on their system cause they understood how much fun it is with more people playing? Even the recent "connectivity" games like 4-Swords and Crystal Chronicles require active communication between players.
Conspiracy theory aside, someone at gamecubicle may be on to something.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/08/31/news_6106106.html
It won't be a phone. I'll bet my Neo Geo on it.
VOIP chat to those who are in the "mario net" is completely within reason. Even if it can't do voice calls to landlines or non-DS devices, that would still be a major improvement over the current capabilities of any handheld gaming device.
Forget huge scale mesh networks. Routing in huge meshs is scary hence the military and other research outfits are pouring time in to looking in to solving it. Trust me Nintendo, havent solved all the problems.
GPS would be cool and is a strong posablity but id say its the VoIP that we should be looking out for. I dont know about free, maybe between DS's in games. You may see service providers coming out with DS game cards that enable true VoIP with a actual number that can be dialed from any phone.
We will have to wait and see ;-)
im thinking more of a small based network say 5 people in one room with the ability to multi-play games wirelessly i dont see a very wide range maybe not even the next room
I remember when the gamecube first came out, Nintendo was in development with Motorolla for a mobile wireless mesh network made of gamecubes.
I don't think that they've kept it "secret" or in "hiding". The research is out there all along. If people were looking around doing research, they would find that Nintendo and Motorolla had years worth of research and devel on mobile mesh networks, exactly in the "lily pad" form, except it was using a proprietary motorolla protocal. It was first conceptualized as a wireless gamecube network for playing lets say kirby air ride, or fzero across spontaneously generated wireless networks.
I think they've ported it to 802.11 networks, and designed some low power hardware to fit it into the DS
in response to tomatoe's "I think they've ported it to 802.11 networks, and designed some low power hardware to fit it into the DS"
the DS has 2 forms of wireless, 802.11b and it's own proprietary wireless as well, maybe it's this proprietary wireless that's been developed alongside motorolla? only time will tell..
If this works as good as they say it will, then its going to kick some f'n serious ass.
I think that we should just all agree that the DS will shoot the PSP in the face with a shotgun full of salt.
Wow, all they did was open up a whole new venue for hacking.
Inexperienced Sony has shot themselves in the foot (maybe both feet)... I love what Sony does with style (except for the PS2), but their products don't last!! I have a Vaio, a Clie, and a PS2, and all three have had problems or broken within a month or two, though the Vaio still runs. I am even more wary about the PSP. Sony needs to work on quality and durability, not just looks. Nintendo, on the other hand--I've never had a system of theirs break. They have the best prices (for consumers--not necessarily developers) and seem to be doing everything right with the DS. I will be surprised if the PSP takes more than a 30% market share EVER. The PS2 has sold as many systems as it has in part because they are so fragile, and gamers have to buy a second and a third one to keep their game investment meaningful. And what's this about a $350 price point for the PSP? There's no way gamers will pay that, and the system will fail, and the developers who have spent huge bucks making games will eat Sony alive.
I would guess this is an "augmented reality" game, where the player has to move around in the "real" world to move around in the game. It's probably controlled by a GPS or something
Am I the only one who believes the boy is playing hide and go seek in somewhat of a GPS tag type of way with his and I would guess his friend's DS? This would explain him sitting alone in the woods and the comment of "Find Me." Or was this just so obvious that no other big mouth like myself bothered to mention it? Also, if this is the case, I have no fricken clue as to how you would find each other as I don't believe the DS to have GPS capability. Signal strength maybe?
I can't believe that all this information can be generated from one little picture.
I don't think a GPS reciever would be integrated into the DS for a few reasons. 1) cost, while costs have come down dramatically over the past few years - they haven't come down that much. 2) A GPS reciever only works when it has direct line of sight with the GPS sat in the sky. So you wouldn't be sitting on the couch watching the tube using a GPS for some sort of GPS driven 'Where in the world is Carmen Sandiago'. 3) Beyond position info, you would want charts (map) to also display your location. Charts are not cheap and they aren't distributed freely. It costs a lot of money to have a group survey different geographic regoins and convert them to a digital format (they come in many formats - all proprietary) - and then they are not 100% accurate - there will always be a small amount of deviation. A small amount of deviation could result in the death of a young child trying to navigate in the darkness.
I could be wrong though - that kind of thing does happen. I work everyday with GPS sytems and other various navigation systems - I am somewhat qualified to make an extended observation on the idea. I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool - cos it would.
I'll just be happy to get a DS no matter what and I am confident that it will be well made and loads of fun.
Wireless: DS users will be able to connect with a local wireless network of up to 16 players. Nintendo's guaranteed range is 30 feet, but will extend far beyond that depending on circumstances. It assures high response rates required for real time game play, and will make use of both IEEE 802.11 and Nintendo's proprietary communication protocol, which provides low battery consumption. Players will be able to chat and play games without any connecting cords, completely untethered. The DS technology also provides for a wireless LAN connection, which could allow a theoretically infinite number of players to connect at a hot spot and compete at a central game hub on the Internet, even if they're thousands of miles apart.
From: http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?prodid=10048887&whse=&topnav=&cat=20521
Wireless Game Sharing: If software developers desire, multiple players can compete in wireless games, even if only one person has a game card inserted. Players could also test-play games for themselves as long as they stayed connected.
I do not want to sound rude or discourage any Platos out in the threads, but I seriosuly do not believe that the DS will have a GPS device on it, I mean we have already talked about how Nintendo is all about gaming and not about gay little additions like a movie player or a music player like Sony is. This being said I think that we should just stop even thinking that it has GPS. The max range of the DS is said to be 100 feet if in an open area, woods are open so maybe the kid is drawing the dog to one of his friends that cannot see the dog. Another probable idea is that the forest is supposed to simbolize that you are never alone, this kid is talking to somebody even though it appears he is alone. So please, no more GPS comments Nintendo is not that dumb, that is Sony's job.
I forgot to add, Nintendo has published reviews, specs, etc. on the DS at it's main website. If they planned on putting a GPS system on it don't you think they would tell us? I mean company's don't just put up fake specs on the main website and lie in them, well I guess Sony might.....
I do not want to sound rude or discourage any Platos out in the threads, but I seriosuly do not believe that the DS will have a GPS device on it, I mean we have already talked about how Nintendo is all about gaming and not about gay little additions like a movie player or a music player like Sony is. This being said I think that we should just stop even thinking that it has GPS. The max range of the DS is said to be 100 feet if in an open area, woods are open so maybe the kid is drawing the dog to one of his friends that cannot see the dog. Another probable idea is that the forest is supposed to simbolize that you are never alone, this kid is talking to somebody even though it appears he is alone. So please, no more GPS comments Nintendo is not that dumb, that is Sony's job.
not so impossible... check out http://www.kiyon.com/Technology.html
What's the big deal about hacking into a game system. Also think how long it took for people to start hacking cell phones. Does it really matter if someon sneeks a peak at my Metroid Hunter scores?
Exactly, even if somebody does somehow make a program onto a cartridge and gets it to run on the DS, Who cares if I get hacked? Anyways I am sure Nintendo has already realized this problem COULD happen so they have probably done something to prevent it from ever happening. I mean if the PSP had wifi it could probably get hacked cause of all of the bullshit that Sony put on it but never the DS.
if we got hacked someone might find out how bad we are at mario cart! :-o
if we got hacked someone might find out how bad we are at mario cart! :-o
i heard some rumors `bout, nintendo plans to buy bill gates private airplane - cause to send the proprietary communication protocol right like radio trough the air.. (like a flying castle..) also listen folks! aliens are coming on novembers first ;)
i think there will be.. some online.. in the future!
yeah yeah sure snugens.. and on board Satoru Iwata, Reggie, Shigeru Miyamoto and George Harrison singing "symbathy for the devil" from the stones!! ha ha
I'm glad someone will listen to me and respond
If you make a point I clap, if you say stupid stuff like the DS will have GPS after the official specs have been released then I cry for you Argentina.
im curious, could the ds through its propriety network connect you to anyone in the world without the use of the internet or phone lines? cause if so holy shit. it would be a new system of communication. with no fees. net and phones would become obsolete. frrrk, please please tell me this is possable.
Sorry to say, but the only way that the DS can connect is either through a wireless hub connected to an internet connection, or through a peer to peer connection. The chances of Nintendo allowing free 802.11a/b/g all around the world is extremely small. It would constantly be bombarded by all of the other wireless 802.11/a/b/g units that exist on our world. I mean if you think about how often a company in the downtown of any city has it wireless used by people sitting outside with laptops, imagine the traffic on the network you guys are hoping Nintendo will create. I do not want to sound mean but unless Nintendo had used another means of wireless communications between DSs we will never see a worldwide/free DS network. But even without all of the stuff you guys are dreaming about the DS will still be amazing, I myself have a wireless 802.11g connection in my home with a range expander allowing me to sit in my backyard and use any wireless unit. Even this is amazing, just thinking about the amount of people I will be able to play video games with just by sitting in my backyard. I have heard rumors that DSs will be able to connect you to other DSs meaning that if some guy is 200 feet away from you and somebody is in the middle between the two you will be able to play together. If this is possible that itself would be amazing in areas of highly concentrated people like a mall for instance. Remember even if you are home alone and you have a wireless connection you can connect to people all over the world. All of this being said it is obvious that the DS is the most amazing piece of hardware ever put out by a company and I congradulate Nintendo for all of the revolutionary design innovations that have been put into the DS.
So can people actually play against eachother on the net? With some sort of wireless router? Im sorry if this has been mentioned before.
OMG! This is without a doubt the best information on the DS that ive heard since i heard it was coming out!..if anyone else doesnt realize it..but that gives DS the ablilty(total speculation) of handheld MMO! Juts think of playing a Counter strike like game..or an RPG?! God would this not be the best handheld until DS 2? PSP..suck on that!!
The DS, being WiFI compatible, theoretically will be able to connect to the internet with the help of a WiFI router, and according to many articles i have read, this seems to be the case. Warp Pipe (for those of you who don't know what this is, its basically an unofficial company that has put Gamecube online www.warppipe.com)is rumored to be creating software for the ds, which is being funded by an anonymous backer (probably Nintendo) that allows you to connect to anyone in the world. I'm guessing using the WiFI router.
In either case, DS will definitely be online one way or another, either by 1st Party (most likely, why would they make the DS WiFI compatible?) or by 3rd party.
2 things...
yes, warppipe is being funded by Nintendo to make a system called DemaSked (http://www.demasked.com)...
and BobJoe, were you ever on GameFAQ boards? (the banjo-Totie ones to be exact? :P)
The picture of the marinator thingy clearly shows a DS in it, AND something else.
Im betting that could be a single boaster, P2P networking would need a much large range to work well.
Its fully possible to have wireless radio links from a handheld to upto a few kilometers.
Theres already a device on the GBA by a third party that does just that :)
Remember, most of what people have mentioned we already know is possible...the questions are is it pratical and will Nintendo do it?