The Edirol R-1 24-bit DAT/MD-recorder killer
posted September 28th 2004 3:30PM
We don't know anyone but the most seasoned bootlegger who's going to drop five and a half Bens on this thing, but
how very, very much we wish we had one of these for when The Ramones were still alive and playing. The Edirol R1 has
just about everything you could ever want in a portable digital recording unit that DAT, MD (which actually doesn't
even really count, since most any consumer MD won't do digital output), and a handful of portable audio players (like
the Nomad Jukebox 3, for instance) haven't gotten together: 24-bit/44.1kHz audio processing with loads of effects and
tweaks, MP3 encoding, a USB 2.0 port, S/PDIF optical out, and two integrated mics and line-ins (stereo, man) all in a 4
x 5.5-inch box that runs on two AA batteries and stores on CompactFlash. Unfortunately the largest supported CF card is
2GB, so if you're planning on taking it to a Sonic Youth show and doing 24/44.1 raw, it's probably best to bring a
couple of cards to change out at the second or third intermission.
[Via DAPreview]
amazing! cant wait for the harddrive version ;)
This is a really nice idea, but I don't see much of a market for it.
A 2GB CF card gives you just about 2 hours of recording time at 44.1k/24, which isn't enough for many types of concert performance. Also, buying the card practically doubles the cost of the device.
The battery life is nothing noteworthy -- my MiniDisc recorder routinely got 3-4 hours of rec time from a single AA, and I bought that four years ago.
It's nice that stereo mics are built in, but most serious tapers are going to use their own high-end powered mics instead. They could have easily gotten away with a single mono built-in mic, since the stereo field of having the two mics 2 inches apart isn't going to be all that effective anyway.
I'm hoping that the Archos Gmini 400 I have on order will become my new bootlegging device of choice -- it's got a mic and a line-in, it records at 44.1KHz in 16-bit PCM or 4-bit ADPCM WAV format, and the rechargeable battery should easily last a full concert, long before the 20GB hard drive fills up. Sure, it doesn't have onboard effects and only rudimentary editing capabilities, but those are tasks better suited to doing on a desktop PC after you get home anyway...
When did they start doing that? My portable Kenwood from the 90's has a TOSlink output. I thought nearly all MD players supported optical out?
There are 4GB CF-Cards actually, not only from SanDisk:
http://www.esend.com/sandisk/product.asp?sku=SDCFB%2D4096%2DA10
And they aren't that expensive either if you look hard enough.
Kenwood-branded MiniDisc recorders may have digital outputs, but none of Sony's first-party models do. And I haven't seen a non-Sony MD device in years; possibly they don't license the technology out to other companies anymore.
The existence of >2GB CompactFlash cards doesn't guarantee that the device will support them; if the card needs to be formatted using FAT16, for example, there's a partition size limit of 2GB, and larger cards won't be recognized.
I agree with the comment about built-in mics. Basically they are worthless. What makes this unit even more worthless is the lack of digital INPUTS. WTF? They design a nice portable unit, but don't provide digital inputs? I can sort of understand the digital outputs (although, they could have left these off in my opinion). However, the total lack of digital inputs puts this unit right up there with the Nomad as a toy. Serious on-location recorders will end up spending 10 times this amount on Sound Devices 744T or something similar. Not that we wouldn't something less expensive, but the options just haven't been there.
This unit is designed for musicians to record their own performances. That is why it has no digital input (and, by the way, a metronome and tuner). It meets a great demand for a portable, high-quality practice/performance recorder.
This from the manufacturer:
We anticipate that the R-1 will allow 4GB cards, we just haven't tested
them, because they're really expensive. The R-1 uses FAT32 file system that
will allow for very large partitions, so we do not anticipate any issue with
4GB cards. Microdrives require too much power to work with the R-1.
We anticipate that the R-1 will allow 4GB cards, we just haven't tested
them, because they're really expensive. The R-1 uses FAT32 file system that
will allow for very large partitions, so we do not anticipate any issue with
4GB cards. Microdrives require too much power to work with the R-1
The web site and PDF brochure disagree on the recording time per pair of batteries. The main web page says 2.5 hours and the PDF says 1 hour. What's the right number? I want to record extended sessions (like 5+ hours nonstop) which means I'll want to use an external battery pack. Can I put together a two-D-cell holder to plug into the AC adapter port? Something like that would be a worthwhile accessory but I'm prepared to make one myself.
4GB flash cards aren't THAT expensive now, so I hope they're tested soon. I'll probably buy one if I buy this recorder.
I agree that digital inputs would have been nice.
Is there a way to make edit marks while recording, to be able to skip ahead to the next mark during playback?
What's the problem with the internal mics? Are they really that terrible?
Strange that 4Gb cards haven't even been tested as they would be cheap for the Edirol design team to test and then leave up to the buyer to decide whether it would be worth the cost - which is really plummeting month by month, by the way.
The comments about the internal mics are, I notice, all from people who haven't even tried the Edirol and are just making general comments from their experience of other internal microphones, so I'll leave it until I get mine to test that myself.
Anyway, for recording live performances, which is a highly specialised field, external microphones would in any case be the best option as both mic placement, size, and a hidden recording device is a good idea.
Saying that the unit is worthless for not supplying a digital in is ridiculous. Through the same logic, naturally all analog equipment is equally worthless...
Still, one shouldn't think that much extra effort or cost would be required of Edirol to add one, with the advantages of the extra connectivity that it might offer to those already addicted to their digital preamps.
Anyway, I am highly looking forward to receiving mine. It might not be the best for everyone's needs, but will have mine well covered. =)
I'm looking forward to the release of the R-1. I think it will be a great way to record sound effects / ambiences for audio post. And, the 24-bit capability has me sold as well.
A few questions...
1. Anyone know of an exact release date?
2. Is the input level manually adjustable? If so can it be adjusted while recording?
3. Can you name the recorded files within the R-1?
thanks
paul wrote:
"The web site and PDF brochure disagree on the recording time per pair of batteries. The main web page says 2.5 hours and the PDF says 1 hour. What's the right number? I want to record extended sessions (like 5+ hours nonstop) which means I'll want to use an external battery pack. Can I put together a two-D-cell holder to plug into the AC adapter port? Something like that would be a worthwhile accessory but I'm prepared to make one myself."
This was exactly how I wanted to use the device also. At first, all I saw was the notice about 2.5 hours, which I assumed would translate into the usual 20% plus with lithium batteries, resulting in about 3 hours, 10 minutes. So I bought this device and am waiting for its delivery some time in January (it's backordered). Since I needed 3 hours nonstop, this looked like it would fill my needs.
But after noticing the same discrepancy you did between the brochure and the web site, I called Edirol for a clarification. Boy, was the impression I got wrong! The 1 hour figure refers to alkaline batteries (which was where I was going to put the lithiums) while the 2.5 referred to the rechargeable nickel pack. This means that lithiums will only give me 1 hour and 12 minutes, while the maximum battery life now slides back to 2 and a half hours with the nickel pack, at least 30 minutes short of what I needed.
Needless to say, I am NOT a happy camper. I don't feel that Edirol was very honest and upfront on this point, and therefore I am also definitely in the market for some sort of expanded battery pack.
You know, the Neuros unit (the Edirol R-1's closest competitor) got a rather fancy outfit in New Jersey, Sound Professionals.com , to manufacture a custom-made battery pack to expand the Neuros capability to a reasonable capability for full concert recording. I'm going to call Sound Professionals tomorrow and explore the possibility of their making something similar for the Edirol. If they say no way, nohow, I'm calling J & R and trying to get my money back, or, at least, going to try to exchange it for the Neuros.
The Neuros has its own headaches for live concert recording. You need to purchase both Sound Professionals' battery pack and its mike preamp (the Neuros only has a line in) but at least you get everything you need unlike, it seems, with the Edirol.
Happy holidays,
Charles
I am a sound desinger working at a post production studio. Many times I am asked to tape stuff on location. This device could very well be a god sent for me (if the sound quality is goog enough). We have a portable dat machine but this thing could replace it in many situations.
Here are the plus:
1-No more down time recharging the battery. Just pop new ones in and go.
2-No more cassettes and all related problems.
3-No more klomzy (noisy) cables and mike stands/guns, berfect for walking around recording self point of view (auto foley).
4-USB transfer procedure = childs play
5-You never know when you are going to cross a great sounding ambiance or sound event, ether walking on the streat, taking the metro etc... Using this device as a MP3 player and having it on you all the time enables you to be record ready all the time. No more "I wish I had a recorder on me"
6-24 bits
7-440$
Here are the minus:
1-No wind/pop protection for th mics. But the added mic inputs could be the answer.
I am a sound desinger working at a post production studio. Many times I am asked to tape stuff on location. This device could very well be a god sent for me (if the sound quality is goog enough). We have a portable dat machine but this thing could replace it in many situations.
Here are the plus:
1-No more down time recharging the battery. Just pop new ones in and go.
2-No more cassettes and all related problems.
3-No more klomzy (noisy) cables and mike stands/guns, berfect for walking around recording self point of view (auto foley).
4-USB transfer procedure = childs play
5-You never know when you are going to cross a great sounding ambiance or sound event, ether walking on the streat, taking the metro etc... Using this device as a MP3 player and having it on you all the time enables you to be record ready all the time. No more "I wish I had a recorder on me"
6-24 bits
7-440$
Here are the minus:
1-No wind/pop protection for th mics. But the added mic inputs could be the answer.
I tested R-1 for recording conversations with both the internal mics and small external electret condenser mic. I was not able to get high enough levels for recording, no matter how I tried. Peaks were around -20 dB. When I transferred the file to a computer and amplified the signal, noise levels became noticeable. With an old Minidisc recorder and manual recording level set at maximum it was easy to even overload the levels. I was very disappointed to notice that somehow this unit was not suitable for an interview recorder.
These units are now on six-month backorder. I just got mine, a week after ordering it. I was lucky and ordered from a supplier (coffey sound) that did not have a queue of people waiting for them, and that also already had some on order.
Yes 4GB cards work. I have one and it works fine. However, the .wav file format is limited to 2GB files. I believe this is a wave issue, not an Edirol R-1 issue. At maximum quality on the R-1, 24bit and 44.1 sampling rate, a 2GB wav file is about 2 hours and 8 minutes.
I have recorded several times to this limit using one set of batteries (per recording) that had already been used. After such a long recording, the low battery icon flashes, but the batteries are still usable for some time. In other words, in real world use, with a regular speed Sandisk 4GB card, battery life definitely exceeds 2 hours. 2.5 hours is probably accurate. This is using the built in mics, and regular alkaline Duracell batteries purchased in the last year (2011 expiry date) (NOT the fancy pants Ultra M3 batteries). A caveat on this: it was for recording from a fairly quiet source. I don't know if the battery life would be the same at a concert. Also from the Edirol web site I gather that maybe different CF cards take different amounts of electricity. The information there seems to imply that faster cards take more juice. With this application, a fast card makes no difference except maybe during the step of copying files to your computer.
The built in mics are not as hot as I would like. The device probably works great when you are recording from a loud source. For very quiet sources, the quality is still great, but levels could be higher. Of course you can set the level with a thumbwheel. The wheel is not labelled with numbers or even marks, unfortunately, so you would have to mark it yourself if you want to set some preset levels that work for you. The placement of the onboard mics is very convenient, as compared to for example the Marantz 660 (670?) where the mics are exposed only on the top of the unit, instead of being on the edge as they are on the R-1.
The unit has no memory of prior filenames, so when you clear off a CF card, it starts over from R1_0001.wav. So you'll need some system for renaming files. You can edit file names on the device, but filenames are limited to 8.3 format. Another unfortunate lacking feature is a meaningful timestamp on the files. There is no onboard clock, so all files have the same time/datestamp. This is infuriating because I wanted to re-use the system I had for renaming digital camera photo files to their timestamp.
On the good side, the sound truly is excellent. Some have said in comments above they would like a hard disk version. The problem with hard disks is they introduce hum, with their moving parts. This unit is totally solid state, so it's not going to be a source of noise itself.
I would love to see Edirol produce a revision 2 of this that had minor tweaks to address file timestamps, sequential filename with memory across sessions (as on many digital cameras), and hotter mics (maybe using more power?). I wouldn't even mind if it was a tiny bit bigger if that meant it could take more batteries. Rubber/foam feet (lacking) would be a nice touch. I did my own. The backlight for the display is orange leds, fairly retro. Mine is turned off.
Also 96khz or even 192 sampling rate would be nice. The Marantz has that, but is only 16 bit (!). And XLR inputs with phantom power would also be nice, but not sure I would expect that in a package this size.
Any questions about the unit?
I have owned the R-1 for a couple of months now and am happy to have it. I agree that the mics could be hotter. I wish I could create track markers on the fly without stopping the recording. This is my main dissapointment. Besides that I think all the features are great.
A GREAT problem solver!
My R-1 is a fantastic tool and problem solver. As a working musician and recording artist, I have always carried some form of field recorder for putting down ideas when away from my studio. Over the years we went from analog tape hiss to what is now very high quality digital...and I couldn't be happier about that, especially in portable units.
Unlike my MD recorder, the R-1 can support many different bit rates, so it is possible to choose something small (e.g. 64 bps) for less imporatant "audio notes", but if I am, say, at my cabin with a good preamp and a couple of high quality condenser mics I can actually put down a performance that's high enough quality to use on a CD release. The R-1 is VERY flexible in this regard, since I can always just use the built-in mics for a quick record of something, or I can use it as a destination for a top quality recording of a live concert by patching though a good mixer.
I personally don't miss a digital input, since it is recognized as a mass storage device on my computer and thus, I can drag and drop files from anywhere to anywhere...like my computer to the R-1 or visa versa.
One wouldn't expect that the built-in mics would yield a great stero separation, and they don't, but there is still a "dimensional" difference between mono and stereo, in this configuration. (It's similar to an X-Y mic pattern for those of you who understand mic techniques.) AND again, using good external mics will yield higher sound quality as well as a wider stereo field, depending on mic placement. But of course, one would have to be willing to tote those extras along, which doesn't bother me a bit if I'm looking for the best sound quality on a given project.
I'm sure there are folks who won't find this the perfect answer for what they're looking to do, but between my MD recorder, and my hard drive based mp3 player/recorder(A PoGo Ripdrive which only records in mono but offers 40 GB of storage in a small package)AND this wonderful R-1, I'm pretty well set to do what I need wherever I am.
Musicians will REALLY appreciate the R-1, whether they're recording fiddle tunes at a campfire, or recording their rock band in the garage through a good mixing board.
Hats off to Edirol!
I just bought the R-1 and I haven't been pleased with the battery life so far. THe first set didn;t have enought juice to power the unit and I will take that up with Duracell Monday. THe next set barely lasted an hour and didn;t have enough juice to play back.
So that needs sorting out, as well as setting levels. I turned it on and got a rough level before the set but it was quite distorted.
But what a super cool unit! and it is solid state so I can test all I want - repeatedly and endlessly to get to know the limitations.
It was either this or the M-audio unit but I bought this and I am going to LOVE IT.
I live in TOronto.
GLA
The biggest problem is that the mic input is a 3.5 mini type connector which is consumer crap and not nearly on par with the professional standard of the rest of the recorder. It should have had real tele or xlr inputs instead.