The Engadget Interview: Anthony Wood, founder and CEO of Roku
posted Oct 4th 2004 3:17PM
For this week's Engadget Inteview veteran journalist J.D. Lasica spent a few minutes with Anthony Wood, founder and CEO of Roku, to discuss digital media, digital music, DRM wackiness, and Mona Lisa smiles.For readers who aren't familiar with Roku, what are you guys about?
We've been around since October 2002 and we're based in Palo Alto, Calif. Our focus is building digital media players for home. Our core expertise is to produce great-looking products and great user interfaces.
Such as?
Our product line includes the Roku SoundBridge and the HD1000. We tell people, wouldn't you love to see a slide show of your family pictures in full-quality digital on your flat-panel TV in your living room? That resonates.
And Roku means what?
"Six" in Japanese. It's the sixth company I've been involved with.
Tell us about your main product lines.
The HD1000 launched in October 2003 and now comes in two versions. The base version is $299, and the gallery version, at $499, is geared toward owners of HDTVs, flat-panel TVs and the like. A lot of folks love to display artwork on their flat-panel TVs when they're not watching a show.
Sounds like what you might see on Bill Gates' walls.
That's right. The gallery collection comes with still images of classic art but also moving art of mountain streams
and other looping high-def video clips.
What's your favorite?
I like the clocks - you can add analog clocks with pictures of your kids in the background - and the geo-clock, with a
map of the world showing where it's day and night, and the robo clock. The most popular seller is the classic art packs
- people get it, 'Oh, the Mona Lisa on my TV.' Second is the aquarium, followed by nature - like fields of poppies
swaying in the breeze - and images from deep space, and clocks.
Plus, there are third-party apps you can download, like an app that retrieves weather from the Weather Channel with
the current forecast for your area, and you can press buttons on your unit to see a satellite view. And there are
third-party apps that display eight different webcams from around the world on your TV.
Just to be clear, this is not a personal video recorder.
Right. There's no hard drive in it. Its purpose is to play media that you have on your computer or on a Memory Stick
or Compact Flash card. You can take your digital photos, plug them in, and they'll come up in high-def on your screen.
Its primary focus is as a consumer-friendly media adapter.
When people think of high def, they think of television. But this isn't about television.
Correct, although it will play back high-def video. If you record high-def video on your PC, you can play it back with
this. But it's less about MPEG-2 than about the other features we talked about: displaying family photos and art packs
that look stunning on a flat-panel display.
So you can't play Hollywood high-def TV or
movies on the HD1000.
You can get an ATFC capture card for your PC and capture TV shows over the air and play them back on your PC. A lot of
people use it to play back standard MPEG-2 DVD clips that they've ripped.
There are really two markets for this. There are people who want to display the art. And there are people who are
ripping DVDs who buy the $299 version.
So it won't play DVDs, but it will play DVD files that you've ripped.
Yes. It plays VOD files that you've ripped to your hard drive, and you need to connect your computer to a home
network.
Is that legal?
I'm not a lawyer. These are DVDs that they've bought and are watching at home, not sharing with others.
That's a pretty small market at this point.
This product is targeted toward the early adoption market. For the HD1000 product line, our run rate is 20,000 units a
year. We're going after flat-panel TV owners who want to use the TV for something other than watching something
else.
What role does Roku play - software, hardware or both?
We write the software and design the hardware. We work with factories in Asia and contract out to build them. We have
sales teams that sells them to dealers.
Where can people buy them?
You can find the HD1000 at Best Buy, Magnolia, Tweeter, Good Guys. Crutchfield, Fry's or online from us.
Let's move to the SoundBridge.
Sure. The SoundBridge started shipping in August. There are two versions, for $250 and $500. Both products are
designed to play music you have stored on your computer in another room in the house. You can listen to your iTunes
collection in your bedroom or your kitchen. You hook them up to a pair of power speakers or your stereo.
They come in two display sizes, both of which support iTunes directly - we're the only music player with a license
from Apple that a protocol that supports iTunes. It's plug and play. If you have wifi, you plug it in a wall socket,
turn on iTunes and it'll find it and play it.
The big one is 17 inches, designed to go on a rack. The small one people usually place on a table with power
[multimedia] speakers.
How does this sound through a good pair of Bose speakers? I imagine pretty shitty if you're playing MP3 files
from Kazaa.
It depends on the bit rate. Some customers play a .wav file or uncompressed AFF file. If you're ripping CDs, with
iTunes' AAC format you can get a 192kps bit rate. It's up to the user what quality level they want.
How is the SoundBridge selling?
Between now and Christmas we'll sell 25,000 and next year 100,000 to 150,000.
How does the SoundBridge compare to the other music players on the market?
There are only a couple of others out there from the networking companies, Linksys [a division of Cisco Systems] and
Netgear. So they kind of look like routers. In terms of industrial design, our products look really nice. The other
guys don't even play AAC files, just MP3 and WMA [Windows Media Audio].
Our other advantage is we have a big display that's easy to read. You'll see the name of the song, the artist, genre,
album. Another other popular feature with the SoundBridge is Internet radio, about 100 stations. And finally, the
SoundBridge has a very cool-looking vacuumed fluorescent display.
Does the SoundBridge play Windows Media files?
We're adding it Oct. 12.
What about if you buy music from the online music stores - iTunes, Rhapsody, Napster,
MusicMatch?
Unfortunately, today the songs you purchased are protected with DRM and will only play on authorized players. There
are a lot of different DRM vendors, from Microsoft, Apple, Real and Sony.
Right now we don't support DRM and there are no network streaming devices that support DRM, other than Rhapsody and
one or two others. We'd like to support as many of the popular DRMS as possible. That will be done through software
updates for existing products.
So you're saying a user who buys songs legally from Napster can't play them on the SoundBridge, but a user who
downloads songs illegally from eDonkey can?
That's right.
That's nuts.
Even Apple doesn't support streaming network devices. So if you buy songs from the iTunes store, you can't play them
on the SoundBridge, and we have an Apple license - but only for music you ripped off your CD.
Now, there are users who buy the songs and download free software off the Net that will strip off the DRM protection,
and that way you can listen to them on the SoundBridge. But we don't encourage that. But if you buy a song download,
you can burn a CD without the DRM protection.
That's not ideal. The DRM vendors are just starting to add support for third-party devices and we are in the process
of adding it, but we don't have a date yet.
When people who buy songs from the iTunes store or Napster can't play them on their SoundBridge, won't they be
mad at you?
That's why we tell them up front - on our website and on our product packaging - that this is a limitation if that's
what they want to do. We're talking to Apple about opening their platform up.
What other devices are you working on?
We don't announce upcoming products, but over time we expect to add new products to both our video and audio lines.
Different versions, features, form factors. All our products are software updatable as well. The HD1000 is up to
version 1.5, the SoundBridge is coming out with a big update this week.
J.D. Lasica is author of the upcoming book Darknet: Remixing the Future of Entertainment.
You asked some good questions in this interview. I can't believe the small market they are trying to go after. A wild analogy would be if tomorrow I decided to start selling camels here in Iowa. yeah, 1 or 2 people might think they are neat but they don't really serve much purpose. I can't believe people are buying Roku's to freaking display pictures on their hdtv's. that to me is just ridiculous. and as far as not playing drm'd songs, this is seriously a big problem not only for Roku but for all trying to enter this market. what the hell are these companies thinking. more people would buy these devices if they could play their "legal" songs on them. roku will be out of business in a year or two. Johnny Sixpack doesn't care if he can play his art on his tv. Johnny sixpack doesn't rip his entire collection of cd into itunes. geeks only do this and geeks are limited. roku should consider the majority of normal people in the world before spitting out a polished POS.
Good grief -- in his answer to the question about other players he doesn't mention the Squeezebox? What a joke -- to play a full range of formats on the Soundbridge REQUIRES use of Slimdevice's Slimserver, the engine powering the wonderful Squeezebox. To not mention the only real competition, whose open-source software makes his product more usable is pretty shameful. Sad, very sad. Contrast that with the wide open sharing of the Slim folks, and then take a good long look at the Squeezebox before buying a Roku!
> Even Apple doesnt support streaming network devices.
Uh, Apple Airport Express?
So youre saying a user who buys songs legally from Napster cant play them on the SoundBridge, but a user who downloads songs illegally from eDonkey can?
Thats right.
Thats nuts.
I LOVE it. Brilliant question and brilliantly put. Great commentary on why NOT to buy your music from anyone that cripples it with DRM.
... is, can you stream digital audio from a network attached storage device straight to the Roku products with out a computer in between??? I'm an all-laptop house and all my music is stored on a Buffalo Linkstation 120GB HD connected to my network. I don't want to have to run my G4 15" just to listen to music.
If the Roku doesn't support this, does anyone know of another product that does?
article does :)
Can anyone tell me why I should be a Roku when I can just connect an LCD display directly to my pc to show the images? Or connect my pc directly to my stereo to play music?
My issue with Roku, Apple, and all the others is they don't talk technically about the audio capablities of the devices. That kills me, cause isn't that what you are trying to do. Me, all my music is in AIFF or AAC Loseless and I use an M-Audio 24/96 in a G3 to Jolida Tube Amp powering Totem Arros. Bose sucks. :) Anyways, whats the DAC, is it even 24/96? or 24/192? Who makes it?
For the time being, just have to assume they are not good, because MP3 128 or 192 is the market.
then you should just use your own.
I can't speak for the Roku, but the Squeezebox has both coax and optical outs. The Airport Express has an optical out, which is good because how good can a DAC be when it's shoved right next to a power adaptor and an 802.11g transceiver?
hacked xbox does all this and (a lot) more for less $....
The Crystal 4334 DAC on the Squeezebox is pretty good, and was used on some high-end DACs from Audio Alchemy. That said, all G5 Macs (including the new G5 iMac) have a Toslink digital optical output you can plug directly into an audiophile DAC or a home theater AV receiver, and that solution offers better sound quality due to the absence of network delay or jitter.
I agree the HDTV virtual aquarium market is bound to be very small, but don't dismiss the "wow factor" of displaying digital photos on a 42" flat panel. The higher contrast ratio of a display compared to prints on paper, which rarely exceed 100:1, makes this kind of device the logical successor to the slide projector. Unfortunately, plasma displays have a relatively short MTBF, and running them all day will seriously shorten their lifespan.
> all G5 Macs (including the new G5 iMac) have a
> Toslink digital optical output you can plug
> directly into an audiophile DAC or a home
> theater AV receiver, and that solution offers
> better sound quality due to the absence of
> network delay or jitter.
That's not so. Network delay does not affect sound quality at all (unless of course the stream rate falls to a speed less than that at which the stream buffer empties). Specifically, network delay does *not* cause jitter.
Using an optical (or coaxial) link does not prevent jitter either. Jitter is caused by timing problems on the digital stream, and an optical link will not automagically clean up a jittery signal, e.g. from a source with an unstable clock.
To function the Roku has to utilise one of two pieces of streaming server software.
1) Slimserver (www.slimp3.com). This open source software is mainly made for the Roku's main competitor the Squeezebox (a product the interviewee seems to have conveniently forgotten!). The guys who support this software are highly unlikely to support it for a competing device.
Which really leaves,
2) iTunes. If Slimserver is not an option for most (as it must be without any support) the Roku depends upon iTunes to work. Apple's interest is in selling it's own products, including iPod, Airport Express, DRM'ed music in it's own propriety formats, etc. It's interest in selling and supporting the Roku cannot be high.
I'd think very carefully before I bought one of these devices. You may end up only being able to play Apple DRM'ed music in their own proprietry formats (or possibly not even DRM'ed music if Apple do not change their current stance)... or Apple may even drop support of the Roku altogether in later versions of iTunes!
Actually, the Soundbridge uses Slimdevice's "Slimserver" (the maker of the squeezebox) as the backbone for its product. I wonder why he is afraid of mentioning them as a competitor -- as the squeezebox is more advanced. Woods seems to have a very selective memory.
Yes, you can do this, with a hacked Linkstation among other things. Go here:
http://lists.slimdevices.com/archives/discuss/2004-September/thread.html
...and search for 'linkstation'. If you don't wish to add a larger hard drive, this is quite a simple hack. This would be a good host for a small to midsize slimserver + squeezebox network music setup (memory limits on the Linkstation might not play well with huge music libraries).
I also expect it would work best with music in the format that's going to be played (ie, 320kbps MP3), as transcoding to different formats on the fly might tax the weak CPU and result in playback glitches.
I have the Roku HD1000 and have seriously considered selling it off on ebay. The device has plenty of potential but unless the software grows up, its not going to of much use. The device is too big and expensive to be a photo reader - I bought it for the audio and video play back abilities. HD Video playback is still spotty and audio playback is still waiting on a software update to support AAC files and iTunes playlists. Also, a much publicized Visualization feature is also absent - promised in a future software update. Obviously, they are concentrating on the Soundbridge and neglecting HD1000 users at the moment.
You guys shouldn't talk shit until you actually buy one.
You will have a lot more shit to talk about then.
This thing will not even boot up with an 802.11 usb instlled. You have to take it out let it boot, then install it. Real fun when it's stuffed in cabnit.
No anwers from ROKU for 2 years!
This company is a joke!
I've had my Roku Soundbridge for a month now. I love it. I pump music down from my second-floor office through the Soundbridge to my MSB DAC. It sounds great, at least as good as CDs. The convenience and power of playlists and browsing by artist, album, and genre beats the old physical CD method hands down. It's a good device, complementing others on the market, and is a great start to what doubtless will become an important new category of consumer electronics.
I've had my Roku Soundbridge for a month now. I love it. I pump music down from my second-floor office through the Soundbridge to my MSB DAC. It sounds great, at least as good as CDs. The convenience and power of playlists and browsing by artist, album, and genre beats the old physical CD method hands down. It's a good device, complementing others on the market, and is a great start to what doubtless will become an important new category of consumer electronics.
Roku,
Is by far one of the worst companies in existance. They have one of the buggiest products I have ever used or tested. The kicker is that they refuse to fix even the smallest of bugs. When customers complained to them about it on their website... they called their own customers "Whiners". Appalling! An awful company a bad product.
Just wanted to set the record straight on behalf of Roku in response to several false statements posted here.
First, regarding music server software, sounds like the people posting here earlier this year have not kept up with our software updates. SoundBridge supports the widest range of music servers of any networked music player, including: iTunes, Windows Media Connect, Musicmatch, Rhapsody. Yes, we also work with Slimserver, but this is used by a small minority of our users, most people prefer the convenience and user experience of linking to iTunes or Windows Media Connect.
Regarding music formats we support, including DRM formats, we support AAC, WMA, WMA DRM, WAV, AIF, and of course MP3. We are an authorized Microsoft "PlaysForSure" device, which means we play back files encrypted with MS DRM10 such as those bought on Napster, Musicmatch, Walmart.com, and others. Unfortunately Apple does not allow of streaming of their "DRM AAC" files purchased on the iTunes music store to third party devices, so it's true SoundBridge can't support playback of those files directly.
It's simply not true that we don't fix bugs or release new software for our products; we have released major software updates for SoundBridge every few months since the product started shipping this summer.
Regarding HD1000 and our plans to support that product, we will release a major software update in late Dec 04/early Jan 05.
For folks wondering whether the comments posted in this thread reflect the majority of our users, I invite you to visit our own user forum (or others elsewhere on the web) and read other user's comments for yourself - you'll find the vast majority are satisfied with their product, and are recommending it to friends. Our forum is at
http://www.rokulabs.com/forums/
-Sally
Roku
I've got to say - the first few comments here are from the normal flock of net turds that look around for a place to whine. The guy calling the Roku a polished POS - you clearly have not used the device, do not have an HD TV, and I'm quite sure the CEO of the company needs your *expert* business advice as far as his market is concerned. He's the CEO of a successful audio/visual company (his 6th business) and you are... well... NOT.
The fact that he is going after an EMERGING market is excellent.
I FOR ONE WOULD be interested in using my 42" plasma to display an aquarium or roaring fire, or perhaps even a Monet or Picasso. HD images are stunning, and with the utter lack of great HD TV to watch - it's cool to see a company find a creative device to use with my damn expensive display. I spent $3000 on my plasma tube, I would like to use it for more than 30mins/day for 1 HD show on Discovery.
I've also grown tired of the DRM debate. I do buy songs from the iTunes music store, but only songs I don't really care about. My entire CD collection (400 cds) is ripped into Lossless format. Anyone that really cares about the sound of music doesn't use a lossy format anyway. I PREFER cds - the crime isn't charging me $.99 for a DRM'ed file. The crime is charging me $.99 for a file that is 128kbps.
SOME people have music systems that CAN distinguish between lossy and lossless. On my iPod, obviously I don't care. On a decent system, it makes a big difference.
Honestly. Apple's DRM restrictions aren't bad. I have not yet run into a situation where the DRM hinders my abilty to listen or to share my music with my fiance, friends, etc... however - I can see where the DRM WOULD hinder my abilty to share the file with, say, 1000 people. Which is EXACTLY what it's there for.
These devices are exactly what I've been waiting for - a chance to quit using cds for anything other than their original source files. That's all I want them for. I want the lossless file. The quality. From there, I don't want to see the cd ever again.
The day iTunes starts selling DRM locked, high-quality audio I'll start buying entire CDs from there.
And one last thing - why would you (any of you) expect the CEO of Roku to explain, advertise, and recommend software from the their biggest competitor?
Geeeez. Here's an idea - go use and TRY these products before you slam them. The HD1000 is quite cool, the aquarium in hi-def is hot. And the SoundBridge's are awesome - I stream Lossless files from a 400 cd collection to 2 and 3 rooms at the SAME TIME. WIRELESSLY, then go optical into Harman Kardon receivers. It's IMPRESSIVE.
Sadly, I still have to shop for music the same as I did 15 years ago. Go to the store and buy it. Or order from Amazon or Buy.com and wait. And wait. And wait.
Keep up the good work Roku and Squeezebox (just bought Squeezebox for my 4th room) - great products. And please don't listen to haters on the HD1000, it's a worthy product. Everyone that sees it and plays with it is seriously impressed.