iTunes 4.7 disables "iPod Download" application

We interrupt the worldwide iPod love-fest to complain a bit. Hey Apple, WTF, the very useful app "iPod Download" made our iPod 10 times better, we were finally able to easily get music off our iPod, but since we've updated iTunes to version 4.7, now (of course) it doesn't work at all. C'mon guys, this is our music, on our iPod. Here's more about the app when we covered it last month.

[TheZodiac @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

I DO NOT buy anything Apple/Mac/iPoddy. Not because its not capable, or I dont like it in general... but becsause it seems there is no other choice than to get the porkSTICK from them with functionality being taken/given/taken whenever they feel like it.

So easy to use... so easy to screw people using it.

[Thomas Edwards @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

You know why as well as I do - it's to stop illegal file sharing.

Apple, as friendly as they are, are not allowed to have security holes like this. There are still many labels that have not been signed up to iTunes because they are worried about the file sharing rights. If these labels discover that your mate can pop round your house and you can steal a few of his songs, they are not going to be very positive about signing a deal.

[popeye cahn @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

...that this would be the case. Besides the Codepoet http://www.codepoetry.net/ has reported some funkiness with the interface that is irksome as well. Oh well so it goes...

[Ramo @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

Ipods are stupid anyways, run and created by one of stupidest computer companies in the industry today. Dont be be a fool and buy any of this their crap cause of there looks. Throw them away, there are better alternatives that give a better results.

[Paul @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

That's just too bad, for you. For the rest of us, a fully funcitonal hard drive, 10000 songs on the go, address book, and much much more...
I find the iPod incredibly usefull.

Good luck in your search for a more usefull mp3 player.

[Jake @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

Ramo must be sleeping with Bill Gates.

[Blue Stone @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

"You know why as well as I do - it's to stop illegal file sharing."

It's your music that you put onto the iPod in the first place (whether it's 100% legit or not).

All you're doing is taking it off the iPod again. This stops you easily copying the files off the iPod onto a friends computer, sure - but is this the 'illegal file sharing' you're referring to? The equivalent to taking a CD round to a friend's house so he can rip a copy?

That's a security hole? Please!

It looks like Apple have swallowed the poison the RIAA have been drinking, because this is petty and heavy-handed. Well done Apple, looks like your good rep is about to start crumbling, if you keep this up.

[Mel @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

Another reason I'm glad I have an iriver - no software needed! It shows as a hard drive on any computer, just drop files on it and your set.

[David @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

What's the big deal? Just use Ephpod. You can copy anything on your iPod onto your hard drive.

[kev @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

Give me a break!

First, do any of the other jukeboxes allow you to easily take songs off your MP3 players?

Second, has Apple sued anyone who has done this? No. Have they issued updates immediately following releases of iPod Download or any of the others like it? No. They've actually been pretty laid back about it.

But they have to do what they (and the other jukeboxes/stores) are probably legally obligated to do (that is disable such mechanisms) according to the contracts that they have agreed to when setting up the music store. They've allowed music downloading to unlimited iPods - in return, the labels have been assured that Apple will not knowingly let iPod users copy music back to other computers.

Even if it's the same as letting others rip from your CD. Apple has no legal obligation to the labels about that.

[Josh @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

I'd be concerned if there weren't like 12 other shareware (and freeware) standalone apps that allow the same thing. What Apple probably objected to with iPod Download was that it modified the iTunes interface, and made it appear to be part of the built-in functionality of their product.

That said, we're lucky that all Apple does is meekly "hide" the music folders on the iPod as their form of "copy protection." This makes it relatively easy to use any of the aforementioned utilities to get your music off. Just difficult to slow down lazy piracy (and hopefully appease the watchdogs) and just easy enough that folks who really need it can still do it.

[DirtHerder @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

Um... yeah?

iRiver to name one?

[karsh @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

So does the Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra.

[Christopher Wanko @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

That music is owned by the artists.
You merely have a license to play it.
Sound like the shrink-wrap EULA on software?
It'd better, because that's where music is heading.

[Julian Bond @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

Why do people buy iPods? I know they look nice, but still... *Every* other portable music player lets you copy MP3s on and off the player. The more recent ones look like a USB hard drive so it takes no device drivers and it's as easy as drag'n'drop.

[Fonze @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

When you transfer Fairplay protected AAC files to your iPod, iTunes checks to make sure you are the valid owner of those files. Once it does that, it strips out the fairplay and puts the unprotected AAC file on your iPod, fully allowing you to download it back and send it out to your nearest friendly warez circuit.

The reason the other portable mp3 players are less strict about this is because protected WMA files stay protected even when they are on the player, so there is no way to circumvent the copy protection.

[Adam @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

The only difference between iPod Download and all the others, (such as iPod Rip and iPod Util, both very easy to find) is that iPod Download is an iTunes plug-in.

[someguy @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

does the plug in still exist somewhere? or is there something that does the same thing around? let me know. thanks.

[Josh @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

Fonze said:" When you transfer Fairplay protected AAC files to your iPod, iTunes checks to make sure you are the valid owner of those files. Once it does that, it strips out the fairplay and puts the unprotected AAC file on your iPod, fully allowing you to download it back and send it out to your nearest friendly warez circuit."

Sorry bud, this simply is NOT TRUE. I just transfered Fairplay protected AAC files off my authorized PowerBook to my 4G 40 GB iPod, and then used iPod Extractor (which is the freeware equivalent to iPod.iTunes, iPodRip, iPod Util, PodWorks, and more) to copy the files them to an UNauthorized iBook. When attempting to play the files, iTunes still asks for the iTMS name and password for the file as always.

In other words, no, the Fairplay protection is not stripped by the iPod sync or even the reverse transfer (using any one of the "unauthorized" solutions for copying from the iPod.) Fairplay remains on the file. It's just that the iPod is a Fairplay authorized device and doesn't count towards your "five computer" limit. You can play Fairplay (iTMS) songs on an unlimited number of iPods.

The only way to strip Fairplay is to use Hymn (if that hasn't broken in 4.7) on the files, and that still keeps the purchaser's account info intact on the file... a fairly strong deterrent to feeding the "friendly warez circuit."

[Nigel Stewart @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

I saw this news on boing boing and it was pretty alarmist.

What's so hard about using senuti?

http://wbyoung.ambitiouslemon.com/senuti/

[Josh @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

Julian Bond asked: "Why do people buy iPods? I know they look nice, but still... *Every* other portable music player lets you copy MP3s on and off the player. The more recent ones look like a USB hard drive so it takes no device drivers and it's as easy as drag'n'drop."

It's all about interface...on the iPod itself as well as iTunes. Makes it trivial to manage tens of thousands of tracks, and with some thought put into your Smart Playlists, you don't even need to drag and drop to keep your iPod content fresh. It Just Works. Use an iPod for a week and you'll see the light. It's like comparing TiVo to an HD-based VCR, or... (ahem) a Mac to a PC.

The way it's designed, the majority of "normal" people (ie: non-hackers, the folks enjoying the outdoors on a Saturday afternoon, not reading Engadget) don't even have a need/desire to copy files off the iPod. They just want an easy way to listen to their music.

Besides, once two-way transfer becomes possible, you'll have folks putting all of their music on the iPod and then deleting them off their hard drive. Then they cry when they lose their iPod. The system as designed right now, works as a pretty effective backup strategy.

I think Apple's walking a very acceptable line on this. As long as they don't stomp on the other apps, I'm all for laying off iTunes itself.

[Nick @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

That most (if not all) of the songs in the article's screenshot are by Hikaru Utada? Just thought it was nice to see a non-mainstream musical reference (from a North American perspective).

[Ben @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

Man, this makes me so angry. I used to buy music, put it in iTunes, put it on my iPod, and then delete off my computer.
But now because of this all my music I ownt that's not on a cd is stuck on my iPod.
Thanks a lot, Apple.

[jon @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

It sucks that apple is breaking the GUI-friendly iPod Download. But that doesn't prevent you from copying music files off of your iPod using the Terminal command line. Connect your iPod to your computer, open a Terminal window and type:

cd /Volumes/your_ipod_name/iPod_Control/Music

the music files are arranged kinda alphabetically--without the benefit of organization into albums--in directories named F00, F01, F02, etc. you can just copy music from there to your desktop (or anywhere for that matter) by doing the following ("%"is the prompt, don't type it). First, list a directory:

% ls F00
88.3.mp3 09 Track 09.mp3
89.3.mp3 09 Yesterday_s Hero.mp3
94.7.mp3 09I See You Again.mp3
96.5.mp3 09Killahurtz - West On 27th.mp3
01 Moonrobber.mp3 1-03 two badcard - Sergio M.mp3
01 Problems.mp3 1-05 bedouin ascent - Broad.mp3
01 Saptak_ The Samaya Mix _.mp3 the hurting - 01 - Mad Worl.mp3

Now, copy a song file from the F00 directory to your Desktop (substitute your user name for "your_user_name", if there are blank spaces in the song file name, you will have to preceed them with a backslash ""):

% cp F00/01 Problems.mp3 ../../../../Users/your_user_name/Desktop/.

also, to list all of the files in all of the F directories in
/Volumes/your_ipod_name/iPod_Control/Music, type "ls *" while in the /Music directory.

[ryokuin @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

utada hikaru! someones got taste.

[Simon @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

I for one don't like iTunes anyway, but fortunatly there is Anapod from www.redchairsoftware.com

Anapod let's you copy back, makes editing the MP3Tags a fly, supports the iPod way of navigating your music, let's you stream the music on your LAN and has some other nice features, just take a look for yourself.

Most important to me, it doesn't force you to have a 'library'. You work directly on the iPod Data. Working with multiple computers this realy is a must. The license for Anapod is per iPod, so it's totaly legal to install it on any computer you use.

Anyway, the iPod itself is great and anyone who says otherwise is either just dumb as a brick or simply to cheap to pay good money for a great product.

[jobert @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

I'm a windows user, so there are a bunch of tools to copy on and off the ipod. Same for the mac.

However, I could defintely see how it's a matter of convenience. I switched from ephpod to itunes and noticed the either/or of manual management versus automatic management. Switch from manual to automatic and anything that's backed up on your ipod is erased. With automatic management, your songs have to be on the hard drive to be on the ipod but not
Some choice, a happy medium between manual and automatic, in the matter would be nice.

The ipod is a great device, but between this, their rigid firmware policy, and their OLD official battery policy I could see how they are not consumer friendly. But most every ipod owner is happy, oodling cash, or ignorant and apple builds off of that. I guess we're none of the three.

[Vic Jr @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

It's always something, isn't it? This app has saved my bacon in the past. Despite paying for .mac and using Backup, when my iBook's HD died I would have lost over 100 songs because Backup didn't, well, backup properly... So I was able to rescue the files off my iPod using iPod Download. And I was afraid 4.7 would kill the feature. Coming from a video producer background, I understand that the record companies have their fears. So do I. Hm, I can either buy my kids some food or REPURCHASE legally "owned" music that Apple's own PAID software neglects to backup to begin with... The choice, to me, is clear. I will not be updating any time soon. If I absolutely must (which is inevitable) I'll have my handy old G3 tower with the old version of iTunes ready to "steal" my music back from the dead.

[Josh @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

Vic Jr, did you even read the comments here? There are at least 9 other utilities available that allow the exact same functionality as iPod Download. They just aren't iTunes plug-ins, they are standalone applications. And they still work fine.

[meta @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

To the very first post: damnit, when you gonna learn that some of us have bought albums, tapes, AND fucking CDs for over twenty years?? Of the SAME ALBUM?? You're telling me I don't own them?? How about even trying to tell me I don't own a license to play those?? Either way, it is a losing argument because I have, in fact, legally purchased one of those (depending on your view of music).

We could record CDs into tape mixes and share those. I don't care about the "quality" argument. RIAA/MPAA freaked out because of the numbers of copies being able to be generated.

And yes, it's my money that I spent on music I liked. What part of illegal is that?

There have been lawsuits in the past against people like Ford (remember him? he perfected car manufacturing?), and companies like IBM because there was an idea they had that changed the landscape of that time in whatever industry.

We have had lawsuits in THIS country against radio, against VCRs, against CDs and now against p2p. Each and every time, the reigning companies have lost, and yet, have won hand over fist in the amount of money they've gained through the new format. This time, we have a chance to TRULY change the landscape: the artist no longer absolutely needs the masses of middlemen to be a productive artist.

The only reason why we have these protections is NOT for the artist -- get your lame ass to sites that support the artists directly to give them more money, like magnatune.

You wanna keep the status quo going, aka the beasts that control the system continuing to control the system? Then keep on bending over and spouting the same "illegal" rant that the companies are spewing.

[MS Mobiles @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

I usually use my MS Smartphone to listen to the music. But for high-quality audio recording purposes I have bought MP3 player from http://www.iRiver.com and I am very satisified: it can encode mp3 up to 320 kbps from built-in microphone, built-in radio or from line-in ! Ah, yeah, I can copy any recordings from it to my PC. And in iPod? Ridicolous!

Just don't buy iPod!

[Jerry Kindall @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

The iPod does not keep you from copying files from it -- the "protection" consists of setting the file system's "hidden" bit on one folder. Apple just doesn't want you to use iTunes to do the dirty deed. So use some other program instead. Sheesh.

[Mike @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

I use both iTunes and iPod Download -- and as of right now, there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to upgrade from 4.6 to 4.7. From what I can tell, they've added support for the iPod photo (don't have one), duplicate searching (done easily with AppleScripts anyway), and auto-spam about new releases (there's already their "New Music Tuesdays" e-mails).

Am I missing something? I know this isn't an infinitely-sustainable strategy, but I think that the key is knowing *when* to upgrade. The right time is when the benefits outweigh the costs -- and in this case, my current system works great, so no upgrade for me. And I get to keep iPod Download.

[Jeff @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

"That most (if not all) of the songs in the article's screenshot are by Hikaru Utada? Just thought it was nice to see a non-mainstream musical reference (from a North American perspective)."

Well, she's trying to be mainstream here now - new album on Island (I think), total J.Lo-ish sound (and J.Lo-ish look, in the videos on her US web site). Awful. I've lost all respect for her, and so have the Japanese apparently, if you read any of the critical reviews of the CD there.

I mean, "you're easy breezy, I'm Japanesey"?? Please! (Yes, that's an actual lyric.)

As for this iPod thing, who really cares... this thing's DRM system is so completely porous that disabling one app won't matter. I'm sure within like 3 days it'll be working in iTunes 4.7 anyway.

[Tom Karches @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

I have an iPod. I just don't buy anything from the iTunes store. The only iTunes store music on my iPod are the free singles of the week. It's usually cheaper to buy the CD used off half.com than from the iTunes store anyway. Then I can do whatever I want with it.

[eems @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

a little late here but just thought i'd give my 2cents anyway...

since it's a plug-in ipoddownload had to be stopped. this is perfectly reasonable since it adds that (copy from ipod to itunes) functionality to itunes itself. and apple cannot have that in one of its own apps. especially a relatively high-profile iapp with an online music store tied to it.

is it a security hole/risk or whatever?
yes, of course it is. (not to us, but to the RIAA)
i know it's my/our music or whatever but people can also use it for illegal purposes (is this not plausible?). so you need to stop it. obviously, just because something can be used for illegal purposes doesn't mean it should be stopped or eliminated if it does some good. but this is a unique situation.

downloading music (purchased) is still in its infancy (only 1% of all music purchases in 2003 & expected to be 33% by 2008 according to newsweek). apple needs the RIAA's trust (until artists can ditch the labels...). so apple cannot support such functionality in its apps (through a plug-in).

however apple doesn't stop third party applications from doing what ipoddownload does (i don't know the details of whether apple can or not or whatever...).

so i don't know what the big deal is (i write this after listening to engadget podcast #10). to me, it seems like it works in everyone's favor (except ipoddownload, sorry...). apple can contend as a legitimate online vendor that's conscious of the RIAA's concerns while us users can still copy songs off our ipods using third party apps.

personally i would like to see online music (or any other media) purchases grow so that artists/content creators don't have to rely so much on labels, studios, publishers, etc. to get their work out. let artists decide, i say. but until then the stupid (paranoid) RIAA's cooperation is needed for content to get customers so that eventually there can be more freedom for artists and consumers. (i'm sure it's more complicated than that)

the disabling of ipoddownload is just part of the growing pains, i guess...

DRM is another story... (but that too points to the RIAA)
(just a thought - maybe artists could choose a DRM scheme like creative commons with copyrights? maybe choose 1 of several predefined DRM schemes? i dunno...)

[iben @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

In order to continue using iTunes iPodownload, just go back to 4.6 :)

http://www.xrings.net/xrings/breve.php3?id_breve=0712

[sjk @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

[Josh wrote: What Apple probably objected to with iPod Download was that it modified the iTunes interface, and made it appear to be part of the built-in functionality of their product.]

I think we'd all agree it's ridiculous Apple would be oversensitive with iTunes that way. �Can anyone think of an example of them objecting to similar kinds of interface plugin modifications with their other apps?

[Georges @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

I understand people can be really p***ed off by the fact that Apple "kills" cool programs (and programmers too BTW). But there are substitutes out there that would do the same job as "iPod Download" for (almost) free ��check Versiontracker. And Apple (or the RIAA for that matter) cannot kill every program/programmer in the world, can they? So as long as there are competent and open minds out there, we should keep our spirits high, I think.

[Ben @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

You can fix iPod Download to work with iTunes 4.7 if you aren't afraid of playing around with hex.
http://log.antiflux.org/bforsyth/archives/001134.html

[Ian @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

I am using iTunes 4.6 on a PC. I have 2 questions:

1. Is iPod Download available for a PC and if so how do I install it?
2. If I upgrade to 4.7 is there a fix to keep it working or do I have to migrate to, say, Ephpod?

[Tony @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

How do i get into my itunes , everytime i try it says i dont have a vailid file.

[willie eckerslyke @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

several contributors have asked why people choose ipods. In my case it is the sound quality, AAC is way better than mp3. I am also an apple user who believes that the main thing Bill Gates has brought to computing is a lowering of expectation.
Willie

[Bozo @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

It broke getTunes too:(
But now it's fixed:)

"getTunes is a Mac version of myTunes, a small application that allows users to download music from local Rendezvous-shared iTunes music libraries (instead of streaming the songs" or doing a connect to server followed by a file copy in Finder).

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/13738
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/23849
http://sourceforge.net/projects/gettunes/

[Shark @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

Am I right in thinking that iTunes for Windows didn't have iPod download anyway?

[Shark @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

Am I right in thinking that iTunes for windows didn't have iPod download on it anyway?

[ro @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

where can i get iTunes for my mac using version mac OS 9.2???

[Chris @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

The guy in comment 4 is blasting Apple for being lame, yet the guy can't even get his use of their right, instead he says "there looks". Its hard to take someone seriously that doesn't know basic grammar / syntax.

In other words discredit what the guy has to say completely; Macs rock.

[Corey @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

is there a release for getTunes for Windows or does anyone know how to make myTunes work for 4.7.1?

[Sinan @ Dec 19th 2005 2:26AM]

iPods and all Apple's products are quality and useful!! Don't be a fool and buy an another product except Apple..

Thanks Apple :)