Taser guns not as safe as claimed?

Taser International insists an Air Force study found their Taser guns (as seen on Cops) safe, but the department that actually conducted the study says that they are more dangerous and potentially lethal. The stats: since 2001, over 70 people have died after being shocked by a taser's 50,000 volts, usually from heart or lung failure. This is totally harshing our plans for the weekend.

[Joel McLaughlin @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

Only 70 people since 2001....ok how many total were tased in that same time period? People who have agenda conveniently leave out the important statistics. I could say coffee burns are mroe prevelant and say 20 people were burned by coffee nationwide in the last year up from 15, but yet how many cups will all of us drink this morning?

I could say it's dangerous to ride the bus becaus ethere were 10 % more deaths this year then last, yet millions ride busses everyday with no incident. I could go on, but why bother....

[Cameron @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

Joel, but the point is that 1) the Taser is marketed as totally safe based on a study from the Air Force 2) The Air Force is now saying "whoa there, we never said that exactly) 3) Buses, cars and hot coffee are not weapons 4) If police are using this instead of, oh I don't know, waiting and talking, then that is a problem, especially when coupled with: 5) The company itself has done almost no testing on the health side effects of it's products (1 pig and 4 dogs?).

I dunno, but it seems to me that weapons, especially those that are marketed a non lethal, should you, you know, be tested to prove that they actually are.

[TheZodiac @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

There was an incident in Massachusetts where a a group (dare I say sports fans) of people were hosed down with rubber bullets from a machine gun "meant" to deture the crowd from further misconduct. Well, one of those bullets went into the eye of a female college student. She bled to death. Pretty safe. Yep. Next?

[Red @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

It's less lethal, not non-lethal. Nothing is really non-lethal, enough of anything will kill you. That said, I'd be tased any day over getting shot with even a .22LR. Tasers are a nice alternative for cops, in between the baton and the pistol. Just my $.02.

[Jon @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

The article states that 5500 police departments use the Taser. Cincinnati reports that they've used the Taser about 500 times since they implemented them nine months ago(http://www.wcpo.com/news/2004/local/11/23/taser.html)
As a complete guess, I would think they've been used nationwide at least a million times, maybe a few million.

The mistake in this is referring to these products as non-lethal. Nothing is non-lethal. Chewable Flintstone vitamins couldn't be legally sold as non-lethal, could they?

[Scab @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

Alex Jones has a lot on the subject at http://www.infowars.com

[JP Graveline @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

My nephew was killed by police using 2 tasers up to 8 time while he was already on the ground. The whole time 6-10 officers were standing there watching. The polices story is very different from the eye-witness account by passerby citizens.
I believe the Taser is a good tool, if used properly. I do not believe shooting a 6 yr old boy or a handcuffed 9 yr old girl, fit in the PROPERLY catagory.
The law enforcement agencies need to be regulated NATIONALLY by our lawmakers. Please visit www.citizens4taser-reform.com to help save lives and make a difference.

[karen @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

Okay I see that this board is a bit biased, but my nephew was just recently tasered by police in Delray Florida. Yes he was supposedly high, however 50,000 volts induced into a 135 5'6" young man is a bit excessive. Police say he was shot only twice but autopsies proved it was at least 8 times and that was just the back area. COME on you mean to tell me that police cannot subdue a man that is that small? There is something wrong with the use of these tasers and besides he was not harming them nor did he have a weapon. So what the hell were they doing? I call it overzealousness and the fact that they believe these apparatus by the company that has sold them are safe! CAN you say misinformation as well as cover up. I am an electrician and I can guarantee you that it takes a small amount of amperages to kill a person especially under those circumstances. This was a miscarriage of justice and I hope all that were involved will get their just deserves. In the mean time a 32 year old is dead due to police and inadequate studies of all circumstance of testing of this device. I think the company should ban these devices until further studies are done. A grieving Aunt

[fred @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

Seems like another case of outlandish police behavior. Every time I see someone pulled over these days, there is about 4 cop cars all around him, and one little guy is handcuffed face-down with about 9 cops standing around him. And these guys are all 250 lbs, what do they need 50,000 watts for?

They have firearms for extreme situations, giving them tasers is like saying, "Hey, use this for everything else!"

That's just my .02

[_Jim @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

Geez fred and Karen -

Karen, first off, I don't believe your story. Too many little inconsistancies here and there for you to be who you claim to be (an electrician) and have had a nephew who was tased 8 damn times - and the authopsy showed it!

fred's anecdotal story doesn't hold water either. fred's observation's might be judged to be tripe - but don't take my word for it. Anyone may go back and reread his post and judge for themselves.

What do I have to add to those well-informed poster's who posted before fred and karen? Well, I want to add that the POWER SOURCE in these tasers are on the order of 2 to four AA (penlight) cell batteries!

Yeah, 50,000 volts from 3 to 6 volts worth of dry cell batteries - scary .. huh.

e = L * di/dt does wonders ...

[_Jim @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

What's in a stun gun/taser that makes them so ... scary?

A switch, a battery, transistor, several diodes, several capacitors and wire wound around 'transformer core' quality laminated steel.

Here, see for yourself:

http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/stunner.htm

[_Jim @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

What's in a stun gun/taser that makes them so ... scary?

A switch, a battery, transistor, several diodes, several capacitors and wire wound around 'transformer core' quality laminated steel.

Here, see for yourself:

http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/stunner.htm

[Sherm @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

Jim, I think that you need to take a class to learn about electricity. I have been hit by a taser. This is NOT a lie, so don't be an ass and make an assumption. It hurts! All the muscles cramp up in your body, I mean every muscle! There were 4 large well built officers and one female officer. She was the one to quickly use it and hit me with three pulses. the 4 other officers did nothing and said nothing to me, they stood there untill she decided to stop. I was not on drugs, I did drink, but less than a hour later my BAC was .11 so that too was not a factor. I am a healthy person and had problems breathing for a day. Also I got a small case of my PH having too much acid. So there are problems and NEED to be addressed.

[Tom @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

WOW For those who carry tasers and have been through the training thank god you made comments. The comments on this site are comical. GUESS WHAT for all of you who had relatives tased there was a reason for it! ALL DEPARTMENTS have protocals for using tasers , so if your relative was tased maybe they should learn how to deal with athority and learn how to cooperate and not resist!

[_Jim @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

" Jim, I think that you need to take a class to learn about ... "

WHAT the hell do you think I posted about above?

The latest recipies for chocolate-chip cookies?

Bud, it is YOU need some 'edukashun' on electricticy ...

(Will an available EE pls step in here and explain to this chump what it was I posted? I've been shocked voltage in equipment a dozen times and by electric fences on few occasions - don't ask me how I came into playing with the electric fences; I was being completely stupid)

[JP Graveline @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

For the unbelievers of taserpolice abuse,

I have updated some links to news stories on http://www.citizens4taser-reform.com that legitimize some of these stories.

Some people think that we are anti-police or anti-taser. That is not even close to the truth. I think that the tasers should be regulated and a standard protocol established by the FEDERAL government, not local police departments. We need to Demand reform and protect the public from over zelous police officers. If all cops were ligit, we would not have IAB departments, no would we.

[x26master_instructor @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

There is much more to the story then you know.
There are blogs up written by instructors and master instructors who no longer belive the Taser Safety mantra.

[Andrew @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

Well, everything has a risk attached to what we do.. and since this weapon delivers a shock to the person u shoot it at it's obvious that a potential heart attack can happen, but heck it beats the victim getting killed or raped or something... what alternatives would u suggest? Let me assure u that they have their own problems or health risks.. even pepper spray...

Andrew

[Andrew @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

Well, everything has a risk attached to what we do.. and since this weapon delivers a shock to the person u shoot it at it's obvious that a potential heart attack can happen, but heck it beats the victim getting killed or raped or something... what alternatives would u suggest? Let me assure u that they have their own problems or health risks.. even pepper spray...

Andrew

[iceberg @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

I have to agree with both Joel McLaughlin and Red, context is everything.

The fact that 70 people died is regrettable, but if every one of those situations justified the use of deadly force, I'm happier it happened with a taser and not lead poisoning.

Perhaps, three or four times that amount of "victims" would have been sustained if conventional weapons were being used. On the other hand, it may well be that police are more "trigger-happy" when they believe that the weapon they hold will only temporarily incapacitate the target. They must be trained to understand that the taser can also be deadly, and should be used with the same precautions as though they were holding an old -fangled gun.

[Roger @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

I really wonder where common sense is on this issue. Most of the 72 or so people that have died after being tased have been shown by autopsies that they were high on drugs and probably died of overdoses. Just read about some of the horrific situations these officers where in with these people. There are a half dozen that may have had their death contributed by the Taser. I don't know but if I was an officer there is no way I would put myself in harm's way when I have an alternative that is reasonably safe. If I have to get close enough to use a baton then somebody is going to get hurt, maybe killed. No, I think that 40 to 50 thousand people being shot with a Taser is proof enough for me and should be for any reasonable peoson. Let's get behind this and quit trying to punish the use of Taser's. It's a good thing.

[Harry Pinna @ Dec 19th 2005 1:47AM]

That "70-72 people have died" number comes from the 68 page Amnesty Internatinal report. If you read the report, not the press releas about the report, you'll find that even AI backs off that number 40 pages or so into the report. They criticize Taser for not having enough medical studies done, yet AI's "review" consisted of having one Norwegian University professor study tha data. They don't say what data she had (newspaper stories or autopsy reports?) and don't say what her qualifications are other than she's a forensic science professor. All but 16 of the taesr "deaths" according to AI's expert the taser was not part of the cause. They were just incidents where the taser was used and later the person died. The usual cause of death was cocaine/meth use and/or cardiac arrest due to an enlarged caused by long periods of cocaine/meth use. Those people that died probably watched TV the day they died, but that's not what killed them. As for the 16 remaining cases, the AI expert concludes that from the data available to her (again not stated is what data that was), it can't be determined what the primary cause of death was. Why? Again, too many factors like multiple drugs in the persons system, messed up heart, high blood pressure, getting all excited from attacking people in a supermarket then getting more excited by attacking the cops when they show up.

The AI report also has little gems like refrring to "a study done by the Denver Post showed..." Newspapers do studies now? Look out scientists! Lower paod journalists are now coming to do your job!

The AI report states at the beginning that is used autopsy reports, police reports and media reports for it's paper. Checking through the 180 footnotes I found 2 (two) autopsy reports, and 3 police reports. The rest are almost entirely newspaper stories. Of course it's mentioned what data or info the newspapers used for their stories.

Has the Taser been misued by cops? Of course. Just like they can misuse their patrol car, their computer, free coffee offers, etc. Those are issues of training and supervision. If one person at your company abuses the company credit card, does the company take them away from everyone for all eternity?

I used to have respect for AI until I read their "report". I just can't fathom why they would want to take tasers away from cops and have cops go back to using metal batons or guns instead.

[JP Graveline @ Dec 25th 2005 12:29AM]

Reading Tom's comments leads me to believe he is a police officer or just gullible. There are officers out there that have had too many donuts and would rather endager the lives of suspects than give chase. A lot of police were the small childeren in school who was picked on by the bulleys. Now they are the bulley, with Tasers.