TV networks padding shows to mess with digital video recorders
posted December 2nd 2004 4:25PM
So one of our least favorite things that the TV networks have been doing to mess with their competitors—padding a few extra minutes to the end of shows in order to create scheduling conflicts so that TiVos and other digital video recorders won't record a show on another channel that comes on afterwards—is apparently getting worse, with Nielsen Media Research reporting that lots more shows are doing this. The networks might think they're being clever, and on one level we're at least little impressed that they're even thinking about this sort of stuff, but in the long run all they're doing is alienating people and convincing DVR owners that they either need to download shows online or upgrade to a dual-tuner DVR that eliminates scheduling conflicts.
The real problem lies in the fact that TiVo and ReplayTV are "single tuner" devices. Unless you are willint to either miss the extra minutes or miss the second show altogether, there is simply no way to prevent this given their current implementations. "Soft padding" might help.
We are using a new Moxi DVR through Charter Communications, and its integrated dual tuners SIGNIFICANTLY reduce these problems.
I totally agree - it's madness that this so obviously alienates the customer (okay, so the advertizers are the real customer, but the advertisers need viewers, right?). I sent my nasty letter to ABC complaining that I wouldn't watch Lost because they deliberately make it overlap with the West Wing...
That 7 tuner DVR that Sony announced a while back doesn't sound so crazy now, does it? I'm glad my DVR lets me record two things at once, although the other thing the networks have been doing is not updating the schedule, so I just miss the last minute of a TV show.
NBC has been doing this for years, w/ ER, starts @ 9:59 EST. Ever heard of manual record? Of course ER is complete crap, so I just watch without a trace.
This has driven me crazy for the last several weeks as I miss West Wing because Lost runs at 1 hour and 1 minute long. I'm convinced the networks are doing this not to block people's ability to record shows on rival networks, but rather to frustrate people with DVRs enough that they actually are forced to watch programs (and of course the commercials) live. Its quite frustrating and I've been waiting for Tivo to come up with a solution to it for a while. Right now, Tivo will only let you record a program early, not late. On the other side, it will only allow you to extend a programs run time, not cut into it. Unless you want to setup manual recordings for each conflicted show, Tivo really can't handle this situation...yet.
Even if you don't have a TiVo brand DVR you can keep up-to-date on last minute schedule changes. At TiVoCommunity.com there's a thread specifically dedicated to get you around this annoying network "feature".
The best way to combat this issue is to hit them where it counts - in the bottom line. Keep a running list of the the companies that advertise during a "padded" show and write to them and the network heads expressing your displeasure and the negative feeling that this activity generates resulting in a negative feeling about their ad, product, and company. I assure you these tactics do work, especially if you organize the attack (a la SaveFarscape.org).
I'm not even using Tivo (I've got time warner's dual tuner dvr box) and I know EXACTLY what you mean! (and it does seem to be getting worse)
1. the problem of program times not fitting where they're supposed to: we now have to record the program that comes on right after Sunday's new Simpson's in order to not lose the last 15 seconds of the episode (which would not be a problem if it actually ran between 7 and 7:30 instead of 7 and 7:32)
2. the problem of false positives when fast forwarding through commercials: for a while we were so pleased that certain channels (CBS at least for all 3 CSI shows) was bookmarking the end of the commercial block with a two second all black screen that made skipping commercials quite simple-- now it seems certain channels are "tricking us" by throwing out that all black tag and then adding two more commercials before returning to the show
The networks may think they're being clever but I'm at the point that if it's not on my TiVo it's probably not worth watching. This may eventually lead viewers to self-select away from the networks that jerk their viewers around this way. I haven't noticed if this has affected my cable or PBS recording yet.
This has been annoying me for some time already. Without my Tivo, I probably wouldn't watch half of the network programming I do now (probably be better off). I have a dual tuner, so I am not getting many conflicts, but I have lost the last minute of more than one show. Comedy Central in particular messes with South Park constantly. Tivo has caught on to ER starting at 8:59 on NBC.
I'm more pissed at Tivo than the networks. Why can't Tivo automatically adjust the recording time when there is a 1-5 minute overlap? Just drop the first minute of the second show.
Seriously, I'm paying $10/month to Tivo, and all they can do is send me a stupid e-mail telling me that there is scheduling overlap. I use a Tivo so I don't have to worry about show schedules. Just FIX IT.
Huh I never saw this as a move to screw with DVRs so much as it was a way to screw with OTHER networks!
Say your watching The OC on FOX tonight (8-9) and then you would like to switch over to CBS for CSI at 9. Well, FOX of course wants to lock you into the next show so they intentionally push The OC into 9:05ish so that you CAN'T watch BOTH. They are hoping that you'll just roll into the beginning of the next show rather then switch to already in progress CSI.
Now the EXCEPTION to this is VCR owners first and DVR owners second since VCRs can record shows while your watching live TV and while DVRs need 2 tuners to do the same (like my beloved Scientific Altanta Explorer 8000 DVR).
Believe me, its a tactic to lock the people watching live in for the next show, not something to mess with DVR owners. The fact that the same technique happens to work with 1 tuner DVRs is a bonus, but they'd be doing this anyways no matter what. This is the same reason why you see 1 show end and another show begin without any commercials in between.
Now if the network actually admits they are targetting DVR owners thats another thing altogether, but as a DVR owner I never thought they were doing it to try to prevent me from recording shows on other networks or whatever.
Cheers
Using the last show of 'Friends' as an example, they pushed the show minutes long so the Tivo had turned off. All those that came home late thinking they would see the last show ended up not seeing the last few minutes... Rachael comes into the apartment, she didn't catch her plane and that was it. Is this the fault of the TV broadcaster or the lack of functions within a DVR? Sometimes a show will run beyond their control, you get the end of that show recorded and your show but you again miss the ending because they let it run a little longer too. A comon situation on SpeedVision. No solutions here, just examples of broadcasters doing it on purpose and other times not.
I don't even have a DVR/Tivo and this pisses me off. Why can't they conform to the half hour/hour timeslot.
I don't even have a TV and this pisses me off, too! Just knowing that advertisers and network programmers are screwing with you guys who spent so much money to be able to avoid them. It just all seems so, oh, I don't know ... so something. Would it help if I wrote a letter on your behalf to my elected representatives?
I noticed this was rampant on NBC last season where all their shows seemed to start at x:59, while the other networks were sticking to the x:00 start. I thought at the time that this was directly aimed at the TiVo class of viewers because it forces you to watch the non-conforming show live while TiVo-ing (or PVR-ing) the alternate show. (Surely people use the tuner in their TV to watch live TV - or does everyone just use the cable box tuner?) the reasoning behind it (I thought) was to try and grab as many rating as possible, as Neilsen only counted the live TV audience. Have they started adding PVRo'd shows to the ratings count yet? If not, they need to, especially now the cable networks are basically giving away PVR's for close to nothing.
Whatever the reason it's damn annoying - Lost being a prime example as now they're putting important plot points in the last minute. I just end up watching it live and PVR-ing Smallville and West Wing.
Lost is really pissing me off with the massive amounts of commercials it has and the fact that EVERY episode has some twist in the last 20 seconds. Combine this with running 1 minute later and you've got some pissed off viewers.
I noticed this was rampant on NBC last season where all their shows seemed to start at x:59, while the other networks were sticking to the x:00 start. I thought at the time that this was directly aimed at the TiVo class of viewers because it forces you to watch the non-conforming show live while TiVo-ing (or PVR-ing) the alternate show. (Surely people use the tuner in their TV to watch live TV - or does everyone just use the cable box tuner?) the reasoning behind it (I thought) was to try and grab as many rating as possible, as Neilsen only counted the live TV audience. Have they started adding PVRo'd shows to the ratings count yet? If not, they need to, especially now the cable networks are basically giving away PVR's for close to nothing.
Whatever the reason it's damn annoying - Lost being a prime example as now they're putting important plot points in the last minute. I just end up watching it live and PVR-ing Smallville and West Wing.
I want to apologize for my earlier sarcastic comment. At that time I had not read the news that CBS and NBC refused to run an ad for a church because they fear it might offend the Bush administration. Apparently the church ad says that the church is "all inclusive" and NBC and CBS interpret that to include gays.
Before I read this news item, I thought you guys were complaining too much about the networks on what seemed like a petty issue, but now I'm genuinely angry at them. Now I really do wish I knew what I could do that could make a difference.
I'm glad I don't watch anything on the major networks.
I have been boycotting NBC and have added ABC since they started doing it too.
My understanding was that advertisers were wanting this to make sure people watched the shows realtime instead of recording them.
In my mind, this has backfired and I don't watch them from recordings on my TiVo. I download them from BitTorrent and watch them later without any commercials at all. All praise the folks that spend the time recording the shows off the air and converting them to DivX/Xvid so we can watch the shows when we want to.
Well, I think it's going to shoot them in the foot. I tend to start removing programs from my TiVo Season Pass list when the networks play these games. There's always something else to record if that network doesn't want me watching their programs. If it's a show I just have to see, I'll have Netflix send me the DVDs when the season ends.
Also, TiVo shares out the list of popular programs *and* some TiVo families are Nielson families! Why do the infantile networks doing this think this will benefit them?
If you are looking for a 2 tuner system buy the Older series 1 from Sony Model SAT- T60. 2 Tuners and it is a DirecTV/Tivo Unit.
Perfect for this mess
All DirecTV/TiVo units have two tuners.
What really irks me is football on Fox! Any show that resides in the Sunday at 7:00 "death slot" usually gets preempted by football. Twice this season, the damned game has run until 7:40, causing us to miss the first 10 minutes of Malcolm In The Middle as well. Aaargh! Why doesn't Fox just reserve the 7:00 time slot for a football highlights show? Has King Of The Hill (the death slot's current resident) even aired this season?
I have a TiVo, and watch Lost and West Wing - same issue here. There is NO reason to piss us off like this.
But, since Alias will be switching nights to Wednesday after Lost, I'd miss WW anyway. Solution? I'm actually buying a 2nd TiVo for the bedroom to catch other shows. Ah well.
TK
They networks are definitely shooting themselves in the foot with this tactic. My parents, who have a TiVo, are longtime West Wing viewers, but they'd like to sample Lost. They aren't interested, however, in going through the manual recording hassle to get both shows, so they simply won't watch Lost at all.
I agree, though, that I don't see why TiVo can't do something about this. If you can set up a Season Pass to start a show 1 or 2 minutes early, why can't you do the same thing to make it one or two minutes late? This one-time setting would eliminate the manual recording hassle and mostly deal with the problem (the first minute of West Wing is mostly "previouslies" anyway).
#25, you can do that. My Lost season pass starts on time, and ends one minute later.
The networks are determined to force us to watch their obnoxious and offensive ads. Screw it. I'll just give up watching broadcast TV and just go with what is on paid subscription channels and DVDs. Let their old business model wither and die if that is what must happen. These are luxury goods. No one has ever died for lack of the latest sitcoms and adventure shows. If I cannot have it in a convenient form at a reasonable price I will do without and give my money to other media that is more accommodating.
Re the Lost vs West Wing scheduling conflict, it just encourages me to Bittorrent the Lost episodes (I would rather tivo them), so they are screwing their advertisers by this silly practice. If they all start doing it I will just cancel cable and get a faster internet connection so my downloads go faster.
Dual tuner dosn't fix it with Tivo but that has more to do with them been lazy hacks and not bothering to fix even the most glaring of problems.
Whats the big deal? Buy DirecTV, get a dual tuner Tivo and you can select to record shows early and let it run late. I've been doing this since last year for goodness sakes. When the wife and I watch a show previously recorded and it cuts off early we adjust the season pass settings to record 5 minutes after the scheduled end time, easy.
NetFlix. All the good shows make it to DVD anyway.
Or you could be the type of person that likes watching fictional shows in season so you have something to talk about at the watercooler.
TBS has always had a 5 minute lag.
That was Turner's idea: locks people in so they can't switch (unless they like watching a show 5 minutes in). Been a problem for VCR+ for a while now, way before anyone even thought of TiVO
The other option is to just stop watching the show. I don't use my PVR to watch another show, I use it to spend some time with my family and still watch shows I like. If one show decides to pad all the time, like ER, then I just loose interest and read Engadget instead.
Japanese broadcasters started doing this a while back and it escalated to the point that some shows now start at 15 minutes before the hour, some 12 minutes, some 3 minutes after, etc. It makes it almost impossible to keep track and you end up missing part of most shows.
Competition is what America's all about, but resorting to underhanded tactics is what has caused many of us to lose faith and respect in not only the United States but the entire institution of government, status on all levels, and rules. We need to stick to the basics . . . Strong competition, but in a respecting and gracious manner. I know what I'm talking about guys.
I am sorry, but the government has nothing to do with this issue. I am sorry, if you live here and actually believe that, leave, we do not want you here, your lucky you have the freedom to leave. If you do not live here, fuck off, no once cares what you have to say about the first secure democracy that so many brave soldiers have died to protect. Either way, what your saying is unpatriotic and I nor the majority of America agrees with what your saying. Oh and by the way, although I am a conservative republican, politics has absoutely nothing to do with being patriotism and fighting for ones' country.