Class action lawsuit against Verizon and Motorola for crippling Bluetooth on the V710

Since we've seen pretty much of every episode of L.A. Law we usually we feel pretty confident when it comes to holding forth on all matters of a legal nature, but we're not sure whether the class action suit California law firm Kirtland & Packard has filed against Verizon and Motorola for selling Motorola's V710 handset with several features of its built-in Bluetooth disabled (like the Dial-Up Networking profile, which let's you use the phone as a wireless modem, and the ability to wirelessly copy files like digital photos over to a PC) has a leg to stand on or not. Not that it doesn't feel mighty good to hit back when companies needlessly make their products less useful, but we're getting into some complicated legal territory about how the phone was represented for sale and all that, and Verizon and Moto (which honestly was just giving Verizon what it asked for in the phone) aren't exactly going to roll over.

[Thanks, Sam]

[Nick @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I hate Verizon. They have always had a lackluster selection of phones.

[Joey Geraci @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

At least with the blackberry 7100t, blackberry has some kind of excuse in saying that their phones are used by governments and businesses, so security was a top priority. Supposedly this is why they disabled all bluetooth features of the 7100 other than headset. Verizon and Motorola have no excuse here.

[tm @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I own one of these and can agree with the premise of the lawsuit. Keep in mind this is coming from a person who hates frivilous lawsuits. There is a basis of complaint here when - what the phone does and what the phone does not do - is NOT clearly stated by Verizon. Furthermore there is a certain amount of expectation when a phone is BlueTooth enabled. I expected it to have the normal compliment of profiles, I was very dissapointed to find out I could not transfer files. An absoloutely pointless ommision.

tm

[Jimmy @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

#1 - Phones offered by verizon is just about equal to the other providers out there. In any case, their customerservice and coverage is way better than cingluar (generally speaking). CDMA is not as broad is GSM so the number of companies who invest in CDMA will be less. Its like hating Toyota for not offering a $200k car...

[Boss Sauce @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

It's not exactly pointless-- Verizon clearly wonders "why let people get for free what we can charge them for?" Verizon has disingenuously claimed there are "security issues" with fully enabling Bluetooth, simultaneously admitting to customers that they're trying to generate revenue from these phones' features. They could have sold me two phones in the last two years if they'd properly enabled the Bluetooth, but I'll stick with my StarTac (or switch carriers) and old plan until they step up and let their phones do what they were designed and advertised to do.

[Anthony @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

i use the v710 as a modem a couple times a week with either my PDA or laptop. Are some people having issues with that?

[Thomas @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

when I bought the phone in sept. I was told by the rep that they would release a firmware update that would enable full obex within a month... its now months later there has been no updates (the phone has some terrible glitches that make it crash that need to be fixed as well) and the one firmware that has been floating around (vzw test firmware I think) removes the ability to transfer images and ringtones from the transflash.

disabling features is one thing, but doing it months after a phone has been released and limiting the functions that were once available is another..

t

[Omega X @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Verizon Wireless has been doing this for years. ITs about time that they get what they deserved.

[Ellery Davies @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

The VZ version of the V710 does allow the use of bluetooth for both a headset and also as as a PC modem. Both my PC and PDA are configured to use a Wi-Fi connection if available, but then to fall back to using my V710 phone if it is within range...

In my use, the phone automatically recognizes that it is making a data call (it shows the true connection speed on the outside screen). Even when call back to my ISP across the country, it always gives a 14.4 kbps connection. The minues are billed as ordinary time under your plan. (I have no data services with Verizon). In fact, if you can find a modem on another verizon cell phone, these data calls will fall under your allotment of free minutes.

Incidentally, this "voice" overlay connection speed is slightly slower than Verizon's national CDPD service (about 19.2 KBps but requires a separate data agreement). And of course it is FAR slower than the new Verizon EVDO, which gives broadband speeds - now being deployed across New England (incidentally, the E815 is the new V710 replacement. It is exactly the same phone, but with the EVDO service).

[Crunge @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I have a V710 and like it. I use DUN (dial up networking) with Bluetooth and have no problems, so Verizon did not disable this. As far as I can tell, the only thing Verizon did disable was obex (the ability to transfer files via Bluetooth) and you know what, I just got a Transflash card and do it via the adapter card. Not terribly convenient, but no bid deal.

What Verizon has done in the latest firmware is make it so you can't copy sound files from the TF card to the phone; that's disappointing. I have several MP3 files I use as ringtones, and if I upgrade the firmware, I'll lose that ability. Therefore, I'm not upgrading.

If someone wanted to complain about the phone, I'd find far more to whine about in the HORRIBLE camera that comes in the phone. What a joke.

[Ellery Davies @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

In posting #8 above, I rambled on about the modem feature (which is not crippled), but I failed to make this point...

The original article was in error in stating that the modem feature is disabled, however Verizon has forced Motorola to disable the ability to synchronize contacts, download ringtones from a PC and even send a photo to your PC (even if you own a USB transfer cable)!! The AUDACITY!! That's exactly why I purchase this phone. When I asked a Verizon service rep to comment, he said that if I wanted to use the camera regularly, I should buy a separate digital camera. (YES: I have his name and his original leltter).

[Pip @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I have to respond to Ellery's comment #8. IMHO, the best thing about Verizon is that almost all of its plans include *free* 1xRTT data usage--that is, it just uses minutes. Now, Verizon does not tell you this at all--in fact, they'd much rather sell you a ripoff data plan than have you know about this. For reference, 1xRTT is a fully digital data connection that tops out at about 128Kbps. Verizon's name for their 1xRTT network is NationalAccess (formerly Express Network). To find out if you have NationalAccess Minutes Only Use, look on your contract or on the My Account listing at verizonwireless.com--it will be listed as EN MOU or NA MOU. What this means is, if you have 1x coverage, 128Kbps through Verizon costs the same as 14.4Kbps through your own ISP. Even better, most Verizon plans include free nights and weekends, so you could open a data connection at 10PM on Friday night, and close it at 5AM on Monday morning, at absolutely no cost. For me, NA MOU takes a lot of the sting out of having a crippled Verizon phone (can't download through WAP, no Java VM)

[splash286 @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

My experience is different from that of Ellery Davies (post #10) in that I am able to sync contacts and calendar via USB cable. However, others have had problems with this feature. Also, I expected when I bought the phone to be able to do such synchronization via Bluetooth. I also thought I'd be able to transfer photos from the phone via Bluetooth. Not sure it's class-action worthy, but the phone has not met my expectations.

[dawggpie @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

at the very least this will expose to more people what Verizon is doing and put pressure on them to not cripple their future phones.

[rn @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

where do i sign up to sue them?
I'm fed up with (in my humble opinion) the Costa Rica and Argentian customer service centers, the know nothing billing clerks and their slimey salespersons.....let me at em....

[vzw reps @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

There are security issues with BlueTooth first of all. Second of all, if a company asks a manufacturer to remove or restrict certain applications or features on a product, and the manufacturer complies, where does the fault lie?? No-one faults GM for not putting 4-wheel disc brakes on their vehicles, but a 2002 Yukon is considered comparable to a 2002 Expedition (manufacturing is outsourced in both, just to shut up you hair-splitters.) The company does not outsource customer service to other countries, and only rarely even outsources to other companies, and our salespeople get up and go to work in the morning like all you other folks that pay good money for the PRIVELEGE of having cellular phones and the Internet available to them (both life-saving, world-changing, and inconcievably invaluable technologies brought about by hundreds of thousands of hardworking individuals around the world.) What if you had no BlueTooth phones with cameras in them at all?? What about no WiFi? No 1XRTT, EV-DO, CDMA, or even analog deployed networks? No running water?? You only have a blog b/c somebody sold the U.S. D.O.D. on DARPAnet in the first place!! Everyone in the wireless industry works daily to make YOUR life better, and sometimes businesses need to actually MAKE money in order to facilitate development (Mr. entry #11, quit stealing - you are costing your fellow 42+ million customers money - data plans cost money for a reason, and that reason is that data networks cost billions of dollars per year to maintain and operate, if you want it for free, build your own.) People stink and moan all the time about how much money their cellphones cost them, or how much headache they are, or whatever, and completely disregard the fact that, just like automobiles, the path of humanity has been changed by people in this industry. If Mr. entry #14 is fed up with us, let him go ahead and cancel his service. The next time he has to walk the three or four miles to the next service station for a tow, or reports a deadly accident on the freeway 15 minutes AFTER he drives by it, or even has to wait around the house all day long for the electronics store to call and tell him his TV is not coming in that day he may change his mind. If you all want to sue the companies that are comprised of people that stand shoulder to shoulder with you and try and make your life better, safer, and more convenient, go ahead. Or quit taking miracles for granted - they do take alot of work.

[GntlStone @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

RE: # 15
/rant on
*note* this is response is part rant, brought on by �vzw rep��s attitude. Also expressed is some of my dissatisfaction with companies treatment of their customers, as well as my discontent with our society�s �bigger, better, more� policy of living. This is tempered by my interest in technology, which I believe belongs in the hands of every man, woman, and child.

1. If there are security issues w/ Bluetooth that is one issue. If users are aware of said issue and still choose to make use of the technology that exists in the products they buy, that is their choice and do so at their own risk. Many people do choose to do so.

2. "...if a company asks a manufacturer to remove or restrict certain applications or features on a product, and the manufacturer complies, where does the fault lie??" **With the company**. The feature is there, from the manufacturer, in the product that the consumer purchased. If they were not advised that they would be denied access to existing features, and have bought the product with those features in mind, only to find out that the company has chosen to limit that technology "for their own good", and to try to push other(data) plans on them, the company is most certainly at fault. The analogy to GM is frivolous, as the Yukon was designed without ABS, and customers knew this *before* the purchase. The customer had the option of purchasing the Expedition instead.

I vociferously applaud Verizon for not outsourcing, if that is the case. I think it benefits the US economy when a big companies choose to vest their interest in their home soil, and not put thousands out of work by sending thos jobs overseas(ie Walmart). But that doesn�t make what they chose to do right.

Most of us recognize that having a cell phone is a *privilege*, but if, instead, we believe that it is our *right* as you seem to suggest, it is at least in part due to the cell phone companies foisting it on us in multiples(ie. family plans). I admit that a cell phone is a useful tool, many times even a necessary one. But I don�t really believe that every 8 or 10 year old needs her/his own cell phone. And not every kid has one, but a growing(exponentially) number do. And we would *survive* if �BlueTooth phones with cameras in them at all?? What about no WiFi? No 1XRTT, EV-DO, CDMA, or even analog deployed networks? No running water??�. Just like we did until *very* recently in human evolution. But the point is moot anyway, as we do have these technologies available to us. And as you said, �folks that pay good money for the PRIVELEGE of having cellular phones and the Internet available to them (both life-saving, world-changing, and inconcievably invaluable technologies brought about by hundreds of thousands of hardworking individuals around the world.)�. 150% TRUE. And that is the point, we pay for it. We don�t pay to *not* be able to use an existing feature. Or at least I wouldn�t.

As to �People stink and moan all the time about how much money their cellphones cost them, or how much headache they are, or whatever,�, let me say, that is also true. But usually they are moaning about constant overcharging and mis-billing, or accidentally being locked into another 2 year contract because they agreed with the last rep they talked to that they would be better off if they upgraded their plan because of the *benefits* it would afford them. Or maybe they didn�t need all of those minutes the �nice salesperson� talked them into and called to lower them, only to find out that they can�t or would be locked into another 2 years. That�s enough to annoy most people and really piss off some others. �If Mr. entry #14 is fed up with us, let him go ahead and cancel his service.� Or maybe they all talked to you first and really are fed up with the way the were treated by their rep and have a righteous complaint. Problem is Mr. entry #14 cant cancel his contract, at least not being hit with a $$$$$ service fee.

Apparently the attitude exhibited by �vzw reps� is company policy, according to Verizon's Corporate Handset, Product Distribution, and Marketing honcho, Brenda Raney,.Q. Many people feel that Verizon has specifically disabled these features to force them to use your Get-it-Now and PIX Place service.

A. And your point is?

Q. Well, these features are available in phones from many other carriers, and people feel cheated.

A. Verizon does business unlike any other carrier, and we make no apologies for that. ... [Those features] don't work with our business model. Every customer is certainly entitled to their own feelings.
*taken from http://pencomputing.com/wireless/motorolav710.html

And it isn�t just Verizon either: Consumers Gripe About Cell Phones in Survey (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20050104/tc_nm/telecoms_consumersurvey_dc)

Anyone interested should checkout the discussion of this same topic @ Slashdot.org (http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/06/1458231)

Much of this is due to how our cell networks are structured and unlike many European & Asian countries our phones are locked. They also generally us a pay as you go model with no contracts, and only the caller is charged for minutes used. Lucky them� but shame on us for being passive and letting the cell carriers walk all over us. But most people would never give up their cell phones for even a little while, just to prove the point to the carriers that we have a voice and we don�t like the way that we are being treated.

Signed,
A semi-satisfied Sprint customer on a plan with no bells and whistles.

/rant off

[Thisshouldbeme @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

This is in response to Mr. #15......

Is bluetooth really a security issue on the V710. To my understanding many people are afraid of bluetooth transfered viruses. According to reports this is only affecting Symbian phones. These phone has a feature where the bluetooth is always discoverable. The v710 on the other hand is not discoverable unless the user allows it to be. You have to manually select the option for it to be found. Then and only then does it go into discovery mode which lasts for the sum of fifteen seconds. Bluejacking looks for devices that are in discoverable mode, but it makes it much harder when the device that you are looking for wont let you find it unless the user allows. To me that doesn't sound like much of a risk at all...

That's my 2 cents.

[Dolomite @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I am utterly disappointed with this phone. Although I don't know if this lawsuit will go anywhere, maybe it will at least bring some attention to the dumb ass marketing execs who thought they could slip this garbage out to us. Verizon seems to have taken a black-eye on this one. things that really irk me about the bluetooth crippling:
1) Why can't I compose SMS on my PDA or PC and send via bluetooth thru this phone?
2) Why can't i sync my contacts via Bluetooth?
3) Why can't i send my pictures i took to my PC or PDA over bluetooth?
4) Why can't i send My ringtones over bluetooth?
5) Why can't I retrieve MY callerID info from my phone onto my computer?
These are just some of the things that they went too far with. And i hope someone takes a hit on it.

[Marcia Smith @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I have been a Verizon customer for over four years and with my new contract I could not have my phone book from my old phone downloaded as I had done with my previous phone because Verizon now charges a fee and I would have to take my phone to the nearest Verizon store to have my phone numbers downloaded into my new phone. Verizon is taking away many features from their phones and it's not like they gave them away in the first place. I also have an issue with their billing cycle my due date is not at the same time every month here is an example, last month my due date was on the 8th. this month it was due on the 6th. When my contract expires I will not renew it with Verizon.

[inteller @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Thank god I have a T608 on SprintPCS. Good thing the T608 was made before sprint got "smart" The LG-325 suffers the same cripple as the V710.

SPCS and verizon's business model is broken. You can't sell little jpeg and ringer trinkets trinkets.

[AprilFool @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

From post #9 further up:
"and you know what, I just got a Transflash card and do it via the adapter card"

Well, you know what, I work in the industry and Verizon is asking us to prevent the user from transfering their personal files out of the phone using a memory card. Yes, that's how clever these people are.
- AprilFool

[virgil @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I love this vzw rep's contentions. He/she sounds like the typical hs dropout working at one of the retail outlets.

This suit will most definitely hold up b/c of Section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act. This isn't rocket science folks. If I were Verizon, I would consider reviewing my corporate legal team. I work in advertising for Fortune 500 companies and can attest that this would never be approved by the groups I deal with.

Free the protocol!!!

[JuggerNutt @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

This is pretty sad, after it was all said and done, with all my discounts going thru our company Verizon rep the V710 cost me about a 100 bucks. Like most people I didn't discover what they had done to the Bluetooth until after played with it. After pointing this out to my rep she said she would issue a 100 credit and told me to keep the phone, cool right... Here is the really sad part, I think I am still going to give the phone back and switch to T-Mobile where I can get a fully functional blue tooth phone. I told you it was sad...

He also commented he had been in a meeting where they briefly talked about the lawsuit, he said the person speaking couldn't go into detail. I'm wondering now if that's not why he offered to comp the phone...

[William Fields @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I'm glad I did not purchase the V710 from AllTell. AllTell, Verizon and Motorola were all very vaugue as to what capabilities the phone had. I drilled a number of tech support types and no one could give me straight answers regarding the technical capabilities of the phone and bluetooth combo.

I'll check T-Mobile, but what phone was post #24 talking about? I would love a "fully functioning bluetooth phone".

[JuggerNutt @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

The only 2 T-Mobile phones I've played with are the Motorola V600 and the Blackberry 7100t. One of the girls at work has the V600 and she�s always coming by asking for ring tones, it�s cool that the guy that works in my office can start transferring the ring tones as soon as she�s in the room, no cables.

Can someone tell me what the light is for on the V710 besides running the battery down, oh and finding your way to the john at 3 AM?

[D @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Don't worry Verizon, T-Mobile and it's Ipaq 6315 (bluetooth problems) is fast on your heels. Maybe they can share attorneys.

[RJ @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I hope this lawsuit does go through. I was a Verizon Wireless customer back when they were PrimeCo. I left Verizon after being a customer for 6 years. I think there products are crap and there phone selection is horrible. I switched to T-Mobile in Dec '03 and I have not looked back.
1. CDMA technology sucks. Wow..only used in a few countries. GSM just celebrated the billion landmark. Let's hold our breath until the day CDMA can say that.
2. I have two phones, both unlocked. Sony Ericsson T68i and T610. They both have bluetooth and ir. I have the ability to pull my sim card out and use either phone on any given day. (one phone is more or less a backup and was given to me) I can transfer files songs, notes to my Palm, etc.
3.I love the fact that T mobile will unlock your phone after a few months of service with them. I also like the fact that they don't care when I tell them that I get my ringtones for free via trade from friends or from the net.
Yes Verizon sucks and I hope they get sued

RJ GSM Forever!

[Avi @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I agree the cripled features suck. I just came from AT&T (gsm, t610) great features. I am using this phone as my company is paying for my service - but having to transfer over 200 numbers manually took up my entire night. Unfortunately i cannot hack this phone as it is a company phone. Hopefully things will change and a firmware update will fix its self-inflicted handicap (including better access to the background on the front screen).
Oh as for CDMA and GSM - gsm rocks. I was in israel, and my friend had called me (i didn't realize I left my phone on) and it worked!!! Interestingly enough - my cell phone bill was the same as it always is.

[Crystal @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Verizon stinks....have had contracts for
about 5 yrs....have only had one year of good service in analog area. Was told by a Verizon sales rep. that "people like me" cost Verizon too much money)!!! (Verizon lost contract with cell tower, Plateau, that is near me! My fault?)
So now when I call Verizon they are rude and cannot help me because I am in the "extended network" which doesnt guarantee service....well, well, well, that is news to me! After 5 yrs with them, finally last year someone knew that when he manually activated my phone I would have good reception and I was told not to *228 until I moved to a digital area. Had great signal until I had to switch out phones because mine broke!! So what is up? Do they knowingly create roaming codes I cannot use?!? Is there any carrier out here for us many (but far apart) analog customers?!? I also despise Verizon for their fraudulent coverage areas, plans and
customer service...They are crippling alot of services it seems!!!

[JuggerNutt @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

It's here...

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/dispatcher?action=DISPLAY&item=_FAQ_TOPIC&topicID=252#1669

[David @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Personally, I am offended by verizons actions and the comments made by #16 above. Verizon is not the only cell phone company who will take advantage of consumers. If verizon decided to sell a piece of equipment to its customers with out all of the advertised features then they should have disclosed it or honored what they sold. Also the service agreements that cell phone companys make with consumers are to one sided in favor of the cell phone companys. Alltel and Verizon are similar in their ability to forget about the consumer. I have had service with all of them more than once, so I am speaking of many years of experience in dealing with these companys. Verizon does have the best coverage available, but cingular is the better one to deal with, their customer service is the best and they will always treat you fair. My service is with verizon but I miss the customer service dept of cingular, of course isn't verizons offices mostly in the northern part of our country, I live in the south and am use to people being friendly maybe that has something to do with it.

[David @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Personally, I am offended by verizons actions and the comments made by #16 above. Verizon is not the only cell phone company who will take advantage of consumers. If verizon decided to sell a piece of equipment to its customers with out all of the advertised features then they should have disclosed it or honored what they sold. Also the service agreements that cell phone companys make with consumers are to one sided in favor of the cell phone companys. Alltel and Verizon are similar in their ability to forget about the consumer. I have had service with all of them more than once, so I am speaking of many years of experience in dealing with these companys. Verizon does have the best coverage available, but cingular is the better one to deal with, their customer service is the best and they will always treat you fair. My service is with verizon but I miss the customer service dept of cingular, of course isn't verizons offices mostly in the northern part of our country, I live in the south and am use to people being friendly maybe that has something to do with it. When my contract is up with verizon I plan to switch back to cingular, I don't travel enough out of the south to make that much difference

[Bob @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

I can't confirm post 12's claim that there is a fast data connection. I called Verizon because I couldn't get the DUN profile to work. They said they don't have the tools to support anything except the headset profiles. They gave me a number for Motorola and said that Mot would be able to get my DUN and OBEX profiles to work.

Does anyone have pointers to the 1XRTT Verizon support info?

[BLH @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

As some of you may remember, AT&T was told in the Carterphone agreement to not restrict what subscribers could and could not attach at customer premises. Of course, it has to meet technical specs, but after that attach whatever.

Why isn't this applicable to Verizon Wireless? We're talking about handsets from major manufacturers, not something I did in my basement. Why does VZW get to control the customers in a way that GSM carriers cannot?

[Robert Hand @ Dec 19th 2005 12:09AM]

Posted Sept 30, 2005, 5pm Robert I live in Okla. City and Verizon is not the only cell phone co. capable of stealing from it's customers. I signed with Alltel in July with the understanding the phone I received was capable of transferring pictures from phone to PC via a USB cable. All-wireless of OKC assured me the Audiovox phone was capable. I was sent to the Alltel headquarters in OKC to buy a USB cable and was assured by their Tech Support that it would work. It did not and their tech support people tried it themselves. Money was refunded and I was advised to buy a Motorola V710 and assured it would work. Again, it did not work. In this 60 day period I called Tech Support at 1-800-ALLTEL for advice many times. In late Sept, I talked to a Tech Supporter (Jim I.D. #41639) Who informed me of Alltels policy and the crippling of the Bluetooth configuration. His advice was to use the email to transfer pictures at a cost of 25 cents. I explained how I had been lied to and swindled. He said it was sad that employees of Alltel continue to tell people this lie to sell their service.I feel I have been Fleeced, defrauded and swindled much like the tactics of a crooked used car salesman. When this lawsuit becomes "National" I wish to join. Robert

[Dr. Tom Hudson @ Dec 22nd 2005 3:18PM]

How about a free phone that isn't free if you are hearing impaired? Verizon will give you a "freebie" unless of course you are in my situation. Gross. In addition the double bill your credit card and then tell you that the amount is still owing - absolutely true.