Will the Mac once again change the PC?
posted Jan 27th 2005 11:25AM
Like it or not, America—and much of the world—is undergoing a sort of revolution of style and form. We're not going to get too philosophical on it, and yes, substance never goes out of style, but long gone are the days of beige boxes and plain peripherals. And now that the Mac Mini's hit home, Cnet's John Spooner wants to know if it will usher forth the mini-PC revolution. Engadget's answer? Maybe, but it's going to be up to the big players, and how badly they want it. Mini-ITX and the small form-factor PC (SFF PC) are important in making the Mac mini-like PC a reality, but the smallest machines are often severely underpowered compared to their desktop brethren; when they do come closer to matching specs, they tend to totally overshoot a reasonable pricepoint. And for the PC user, the price-differential is so small between laptops and desktops anymore, it doesn't make a lot of sense for Joe34324@aol.com to lay down $800 on an SFF machine over a slightly more (or less) expensive laptop. So while big companies like HP are "excited" about the possibility of putting small PCs in America's homes, we think they're going to have to do some serious revamping (and possibily a bit of innovating, too) before they're going to be able to cannibalize their own laptop business and convince the end-user that small and chic is de rigueur.
Boy, are you wrong. I make a living in the publishing field and have for over fifteen years. All on a PC...a little difficult in the beginning but we stuck with it. We're now dumping all our "big box" PC's for LCD screens and Shuttle's - it's so nice having "our" space back!! Laptops don't always lend themselves to the business set - I think small boxes will be a hit PC or Mac.
I hope so! I hate noisy monster-ugly desktops. The non Apple ones are all prett darn ugly. (the one pictured looks ok).
I guess I'm like most people...I want a small PC which looks like a B&O hi-fi system - but it doesn't cost more than a normal desktop. Maybe the nanode? Might go with Apple's mini thang? Why can't Dell do something small and cheap, makes sense for an office? The problem is so many people think PC = big ugly box. And even if it's mostly full of air that's how they see it. What about a cheap lunux machine with openoffice, firefox etc and a cut down os?
Truth is people who want nice looks and something more compatc buy a laptop.
I think the revolution will take place not as the SFF PCs being marketed as PCs but as powerful multimedia centers. At present in the UK a DVD recorder with hard disk recorder costs about £400-600 (about $750-1000 US), i know we brits get ripped off for everything!!.
Now imagine one of the big companies comes out with a SFF PC but with the additional revolution of removing the long boot up time via some on chip OS or something, then effectively u can throw out your Hi-fi, DVD player, TiVo box, and the rest out of the window.
Furthermore, imagine a method where by running the SFF PC in a certain way you can transfer using Wireless from your desktop to the hdd of the SFF, then effectively u can dload stuff from the net, legit stuff of course ;), and play it on your TV at your own leisure.
The more the SFF becomes less of a PC and more to do with multimedia functionality the more the masses will buy. PCs in general are way too distended for normal users to do simple things and therefore, people opt to go for a chopped approach getting a separate DVD player, separate hifi system, separate iPod plugin...etc etc.
I say bring on the software side, cos the hardware can be manipulated in other ways than currently.
As a proud shuttle owner, I have to say that laptops are nice, but the best part of any stationary computer is a large monitor. People will never have a laptop hooked up to their entertainment center or 60" plasma screen. So you do need a box. Barring a super-cool rackmounted affair, a shuttle system is the best option out there. Who needs a mac-mini when I can have a 64 bit athlon dual booting winXP and linux?
I've freelanced since '89. I've always used a laptop. (mac) In the beginning a sacraficed some things and had to slave a 2nd monitor for color and screen realestate. Now... I edit broadcast vid on my G4 and won't look back. The lack of intrusive box, cables, backup power and portability has always made me pay the extra$ for a book. I think the mini will revolutionize the way ppl use a computer. Small size, low price and functionality will allow it to integrate easily into the home and road.
I'll buy a Mac Mini at some point, the first Mac I'll ever buy, not because it's small, but because I can finally get a reasonably priced Mac without paying extra for the peripherals I don't need (already have keyboard, mouse, monitor). The size is of little importance to me. In fact, I'd buy the Mac Mini even if it came in a mid-sized tower.
So no, I don't think the Apple will lead a charge in smaller PCs, they're just joining the age-old business of selling computer parts separately. The one change I'm hoping this Mini brings along, is to make the masses realize that there is a choice, that they can buy non-Windows PCs and not become shunned by the rest of society, and this will (re)open the way for other OSes (not necessarily Linux). The more competition, the better.
For what it's worth, I feel really strongly about this. For the longest time, computers have been a "special purchase". Something you needed for school work, or office work, or reasearch, or whatever. You always had to justify the purchase with something worthy it would do for you.
You wouldn't think of saying I'm getting a television for school work, would you? Or reasearch. Or anything. You get a TV... because you get a TV. I think computers are becoming as ubiquitous as TVs now, and an effort to make them less fugly is very much appreciated. After all, when they were the special child in the house, it didn't matter if they were ugly. They could afford to, by virtue of being special.
Now... now they're part of the furniture, and they damn well better look good alongside everything else in the house.
And if Apple is leading the form factor revolution, well so be it.
Our company has replaced all the big ugly cases with sff systems from shuttle. They run very quiet and take up little space. And best of all I have all the connectors and DVD-drive access right next to my monitor. They run at the same speed and memory then the big ugly boxes. We have AMD 3000+ and 3200+ systems that can beat any Dell crap.
Just a note for those who mention using their existing keyboards once they switch to an Apple . . I did that, too . . . until I used a friends Apple keyboard. The Apple keyboard was indescribably better than the clacky one I had from my Dell. I do use a MS optical mouse, but in general, once you use that Apple hardware, the rest seem like plastic toys. If you use it to make a living, things like this matter . . .
Small form computers have been available in Asia for a few years now. Granted they didn't have the HP or Dell logo on them, and many times they were 'build yourself' models - but they did have many attractive small form options available. These are designed to look good in your living space and tuck away neatly in a small area. Akihabara was full of these 'small form boxes' five years ago.
Apple didn't invent this, they're just marketing it very well.
Hopefully the 'big' players will follow suit and start making design a real feature - and start thinking about what consumers want, and how they want it to fit into their lives. Not everyone on the planet has 2,000+ sq. ft to fill.
I think a great deal of excellent points have been made thus far. And I'd hope the computer industry (all of them) takes note of many of the thoughts here.
I have one last comment though. Like the BASF commercial that ran for years... "we don't make the things, we make them better.." So too Apple. They did not invent: the mouse, color displays, video editing, form w/function, keyboards, wireless everything, USB or Firewire, mp3 players... they just seem to make them all work better. There is a great deal to be learned, not only by their marketing, but by how their machines integrate into the user's lifestyle and how the consumer will pay for a quality product.
G4 Cube was the original and weird but i think it's cool. However that make me curious about what's up on ebay to see anyone sell the best feature on G4 Cube.... here it is...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51035&item=5746486342&rd=1 it's reason price. :) really awesome
Under-the-TV-PC's need to be more than just a smaller box. One important thing the traditional pc based manufacturers have to get right is heat. Pentium 4 based machines need a lot of cooling, lots of fans produce noise. I have a little Pentium 4 machine in my lounge that has speacial silent fans etc, but when it starts doing some serious work like video capture it's gets so noisy we have to turn up the volume on the TV. The 1st thing I noticed about the Mac Mini when I saw a picture of it's insides is that it has no fans. To me that makes it very interesting for the lounge.
Roger, you miss the point: they're not talking about professionals, they're talking about the average consumer, who is used to seeing desktops being cheaper than laptops. Unless the price of SFF PCs can come down a bit more, they're not going to buy those instead of laptops.
Actually, Apple did invent firewire.
Where have you been guys? SFF PCs have been a reality for 2-3 years already.
This is nothing new and nothing that was "ushured" by the Mac Mini.
BTW, the Mac Mini doesn't sound as a powerful machine to me.
Dralt,
You're missing the point entirely--it's not that SFF PCs haven't been around for years, it's whether or not they'll start to be manufacturered (and sold) in larger numbers or not.
P.S. It's spelled "ushered".
alex,
I don't think I missed the point.
Shuttle introduced the format in 2001.
Recently, some analyst claimed that sales of SFF PCs reached 5% from the total sales of 100 to 110 million desktop PCs. (Apple's market share is around 3%, right?)
I don't think the format is practical for everyone, so I don't see why a greater share of PCs should be SFFs.
Now, we all know that if they sell well, they will be manufactured in greater quantities. PC vendors don't care if it makes sense as long as you buy their stuff.
PS: It's spelled "manufactured".
This is the typical MAC-CENTRIC view of the world. Nothing exists until Apple legitimizes it. You people say the same thing every time Apple copies an existing market segment and hoards of mindless mac zombie enthusiasts rush to spend excess amounts of cash on severly crippled and underperforming products. SFF machines have been around since the beginning of the PC industry - only they were called "single board solutions" and packaged in MUCH smaller boxes than what you're referring to. For those of you too young to even remeber the early 90's, Larry Ellison, et al were touting the "Network PC" or "Thin Client" over a decade ago. Many have been sold. Shuttle and ICE and others have defined and driven the PC SFF market and Apple is just a tiny %%% player in this market. YOU APPLE LOVERS ARE SOOOOOOO ANNOYING!!!! ARRRGGGGHHHHH
One of my 'underpowered' SFF systems:
Shuttle SB81P Case
P4 3.6
2G Ram
36 gig Raptor HDD
250 gig 7200 HDD
DVD-RW, Dual-Layer, Burner
NV 6800 GT
Yeah, no way a SFF can compete with a full-sized system...*cough*.
SFF and mini-type comps will be the norm in a few years for most people. For many people like myself, though, the lack of upgrade options is a big drawback. Even on a mid-sized tower you can add an extra TV tuner card, or say, USB3 or whatever comes out post-purchase and not think about it.
SFF PCs have heat and power issues for those who want to run high end gear.
If you don't upgrade your hardware much and/or don't mind adding external enclosures or something like that to expand later on, then the SFF is perfect.
I want one myself to be a straight gaming/net box so I can leave my desktop to be the video/graphics/etc. work box.
Dralt,
Then exactly what IS your point? The object of the CNET article wasn't to introduce the SFF PC, it was to conjecture that Apple's Mac mini could stimulate interest in the entire format.
I love the concept of tiny PC's. The problem is that you will never see one as cool as Apple's in the Windows world. Because it's not just the size, it's the STYLE. People are buying Mac Mini's just because they are cool looking. Period. And I know of not a single PC company that has the design sense of Apple.
To beenusinmacsbeforeuwereborn:
No, no, maybe, not really, sorta, and sure. Now, I think you need a nap or something.
beenusinmacsbeforeuwereborn:
You're right, but Apple makes the nerdy things cool. ;P
Yes it will usher it in and yes the others will be forced to do something. And yes, they will have to get stylish. And, and, and. This article explains it and also why the "left brainers" don't get it (as seen here and in all forums) :-)
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.02/brain.html
Sayeth Edward, "People will never have a laptop hooked up to their entertainment center or 60" plasma screen."
Silly, silly man. Of course they will. And when they're done with watching DVDs on their home entertainment centers, they'll yank them free and carry them upstairs to wirelessly surf for porn from the privacy of their bedrooms.
"So you do need a box. Barring a super-cool rackmounted affair, a shuttle system is the best option out there. Who needs a mac-mini when I can have a 64 bit athlon dual booting winXP and linux?""
Well, no one. But who needs an Athlon 64 when you can get away with a Tivo and an iPod?
The Mac Mini may pave the way for future Apple inroads into PVR hardware and convergence devices. But for now, treat it for what it is, the cheapest new box you can run OS X on.
Ryan, I can't believe you posted my email address!
I love my Shuttle, it's one of the newer ones with the heatpipe that brings the heat off the CPU right to the back fan in the case. I don't buy the whole "severely underpowered" bit in the slightest, sure there isn't an nVidia SLI Mini ITX or Flex-ATX motherboard yet but my Shuttle is the fastest PC I've ever had. I guess if you equate a lack of multiple PCI slots as underpowered then, well, whatever. Once Shuttle comes out with an AMD 64 model with both PCI-X and SATA, I'm definitely getting a new one. SFF PCs really are the best thing ever.
The Mac Mini is just a stripped down Laptop without an LCD screen. Little more. :p
It wouldn't be hard for ANY laptop maker to turnout a Mini clone in PC format. It just never occurred to them, until now, the people would really want a very small, yet somewhat underpowered, desktop.
ANY Laptop manufacter could make a PC Mini Clone. In fact Sony's Vaio-U line is already smaller and more powerful then a Mac Mini, and it has a screen and battery too! My Prediction: By the end of July, there will be at least 1 PC Mini released from every major laptop manufacturer.
And I'll buy the first one I can find in Anodized Candy Apple Red! (White sucks)
why am i the only one here that thinks my tower is the best looking form factor still?
its all about the lan party, and when someone shows up w/ a macmini/apple clone, they'll get laughed out of the building after getting gangbanged in CS or whatever
for the record, the shuttles dont look bad to me, esp the one in this post
ya, white sux
see how many new cars white?
this is a non story. i'm a small volume system builder and a SFF box adds about 10% to the price of a system. Compare a shuttle SN42G-2-based nforce2 system with the equivalent chipset in a desktop case, and there's very little in it. performance is identical, too.
I've been building full size boxes for years and now I have two SFF boxes (Shuttle at the office) and a Mega 180 at the house. I think that that the smaller ones are more fun, but at the end of the day, I don't really care how big or small they are as long as they work. I think that we're going to see both smaller boxes for computing tasks like this one: http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000513026036/ and larger boxes designed specifically for storage like this: http://www.terabytebox.com/
If the Mini brings in a new wave of PC clones, then I think we all benefit.
Thought Apple lovers were annoying? How about pc revisionists?
If shuttle introduced this form factor in 2001, then how did Apple sell the cube in August of 2000?
Let's not forget the little things they have done with;
Home computers 76/77
GUI 1984
Active matrix screen in a portable 1989
PDA's August 1993
Built in tv tuner + built in speach recognition June 93
Digital cameras (first consumer digital camera February 17th 1994),
AIO lcd computers(may 1997),
lose the legacy ports(august 1998),
not to forget a slew of things I can't bother to get the dates for like color monitors(not just green or amber)
Floppy drive & the 3.5 drive
Plug and play
a laser printer for the rest of us
built in networking
foreign language support
sound input
color matching
There's lots more but I'm over it. Seriously, I can't imagine what my pc would be like without Apple, so give credit where due.