Jobs says: Three PC makers are hitting me up for OS X
By Peter Rojas 
posted February 10th 2005 10:21AM
posted February 10th 2005 10:21AM
Bombshell-lovin' Stevie J. reveals plenty in a recent in-depth interview he did with Fortune mag, but the one that
really got our juices flowing was when he drops that "three of the biggest PC makers" are trying to convince him to
license OS X for use in their machines, because their customers are "sick of the security problems that go with Windows
and tired of waiting for Longhorn." We'd bet that at least one of those companies is Sony, but he doesn't tell us what
we really want to know: whether he said yes.
[Via Mac Rumors]
He'd never say yes. If anything, Microsoft themselves has proven you can't really make money off the OS unless you get a deal with the harware maker. Apple has done that. I would be curious to see what the uptake are on upgrades. I know I will be saving up some bucks to set aaside for buying tiger later this year.
IBM has got to be another one, though they wouldn't be licensing OS X for the consumer market. Maybe they think it's ripe for the corporate market, where Apple has historically not done well at all; maybe IBM sees an opportunity there (especially if security is the issue). IBM already has a lot of Unix experience and they continue to sell and support it, plus they *make* the PowerPC chip so producing an OS X machine would be no stretch for them. And they have a good relationship with Apple already.
I'm betting IBM, Sony, and who else? Maybe HP? It's definitely not Dell, and who else could really be considered among the "biggest PC makers"?
If it ever happened, I'll bet the PC makers would have to produce quality boxes that pass some sort of 'Apple-approved' guideline . . . no way Steve would let OSX appear with some clackety-keyboard and a big clunky box.
Bah who needs it. Sure, MAC's don't have the security problems and are *sometimes* more stable (the two MAC users I know experience frequent crashes and software glitches). My PC rarely crashes and I'm adult enough to run an update when the patches come out. Frustrating? Sure! But not frustrating enough to can all my PC software and "upgrade" to the "elite" (artsy/expensive) world of MAC.
And who makes software for OSX? Have you looked at the shelves at CompUSA and elsewhere. There is a tiny little section for MAC/OSX stuff and the entire rest of the store is for PCs. And the MAC stuff seems more expensive to me, too. I'm just saying that practically speaking, MACs aren't a good choice for the average consumer. That's my opinion.
Way to misquote the article... the article didn't state that the PC makers are "sick of the security problems..." it stated that the PC makers would like to offer OSX as an option for CUSTOMERS who are "sick of the security problems..."
The PC Makers just want more options. Don't paint it likethe PC Makers want to drop Windows and go all OSX by quoting only a portion of what was said.
If they do this they will most likley sell less hardware, so the question is if they will make more money selling OS X-lincenses?
I doubt we will see this happening tho :/
I really really hope he declined.
85% of what makes a Mac a Mac is the fact that one (awesome) company makes damn near everything. This is much of the reason the Mac is stable, gets faster with each OS release, has virtually no hardware driver issues, and is easy and elegant to use.
Yes, Apple makes more percentage profit on software, but I hope they don't go for that temptation when the company is sitting better than it has in many many years.
I could see this being installed in maybe some kind of IBM platform... maybe... but that would be it. It just wouldnt make sense for Apple to let another computer company compete with it, expecially now when they are really pushing for market share. While it may help to bring market share up, it will definantly have a negative impact on their computer sales.
I'm agree with you #3
I think it's time we start seeing some nicer designed desktops and laptops. Who can ignore that with a big pc vendor churning out osx boxes, prices should drop nicely.
Couldn't they create an OS based on Darwin, the Open Source, UNIX-based foundation of Mac OS X? I've heard there is a project already doing that for PC use.
Couldn't they create an OS based on Darwin, the Open Source, UNIX-based foundation of Mac OS X? I've heard there is a project already doing that for PC use.
I thought Apple was always a hardware company. They know the adoption of their hardware will be more successful if there was good software that you would use on the hardware.
We had this discussion years ago when they licensed the OS to SuperMac and other 3rd parties.
Jobs could offer it, but then I would buy cheap hardware, run OSXServer, and never buy a mac machine...
@#3 and #7: Unless Sony creates a Vaio so slim with Mac OS X and a Mac keyboard layout -- white or silver of course. ;) And you know Sony, most of the Vaio's are (real) expensive.
Pedro.. "really pushing for market share" ??
The MAC's market share has actually been declining. Numerous articles came out last quarter regarding this.. articles from PC Magazine and the MAC Observer both reported on the declining numbers.
Apple has one market that is hot and that is the iPod. Don't let success with the iPod fool you into thinking that OSX has been a success. It hasn't helped Apple gain in market share. It has a diehard following of Apple users, and it hasn't been able to make gains in market share.
I'm not even so sure the MAC Mini will help it do this. Most of the articles online i've read of people buying MAC Mini's are... existing Apple users who buy anything Apple because they are diehards. Sure you will get the converts here and there, but when the casual user realizes the software options aren't as easy as walking into Best Buy and buying whatever software they want... they will quickly rethink their purchase.
Sony is going to buy Apple anyway. They own most of the music in their iTunes store anyway.... seriously folks - think about it.
As much as I would love to see OSX running on my Intel boxes and Inspiron 8600 from Dell I think it would bastardize everything that apple stands for.
I guess we will just have to wait for Cherry OS, hahahahahhahaa. Those guys suck.
@Carl: "but when the casual user realizes the software options aren't as easy as walking into Best Buy and buying whatever software they want... they will quickly rethink their purchase."
And what software would that be? A Virus scanner? ;)
Let's take a look at this scenario. Apple makes Mac OS X. Apple gets approached by 3 PC manufacturers saying, "Our users don't like windows anymore, let us put OS X into our computers." Apple thinks it over for oh, say 1 millisecond before realizing that if PS users hate Windows so much and want to use OS X, then they could just buy Macs, which already have OS X on them. I don't see the motivation here for Steve Jobs. His computers are selling like hot cakes and 3 PC manufacturers want a cut of that market? No wonder why Jobs said no.
Carl... The idea is that Apple with products like the Mac mini is trying to gain market share in thier desktop market.
I believe it is way to early and not well documented enough to say that everyone buying mini's are Apple owners already, and only a small minority are swichers. It was even stated by Steve Jobs that the Mac mini is a platform to switch PC users over to Mac.
Uhm, yeah, if Stevie says so it must be true???
Reggie: "And what software would that be? A Virus scanner? ;)"
What software? Well go down to your local Best Buy, WalMart, or just about anywhere else and compare the software section for a PC vs. a MAC.
To understand why this will not happen, I think it has to be approached from the view of business and not geek. Sorry guys but there is a difference.
Apple doesn't compete with PC/Microsoft market!
Let me explain.
A companies success is based on revenue and profit from that revenue. Apple in the grand market of "computers" is selling fewer machines as a percentage. However, they are selling more machines today then they have in the past. Now what is interesting about this is that they make 20% profit on the sale of most of their machines. Even the mini. So yes Apple is lossing market share, but who cares. From an investment standpoint they are selling more and making more. Both very good things. They make 20% profit on something that IBM couldn't turn a profit on at all. Ask Dell and HP how much profit they make on the sale of computers. You will most likely get a single digit answer.
Now how does this play with they don't compete. Well they don't in the same way as Porsche doesn't compete with Ford. Sure they are both cars, and on paper Ford sells a boat load more cares than Porsche. But Porsche doesn't care. Each year Porsche sells more cars then the year prior and makes more money on it. This is a growing trend and something that is good. In the same year Ford increases sales and thus marketshare, but it will never hurt Porsche. Has Porsche been approached about licensing engines and technology. Most likely, but they don't. Reason, cause they are in the business of selling the complete package. Ford however loves to license engines to companies like Panoz and such.
Ok back to Apple. Apple doesn't make a whole lot on OS X. They do make some with iLife and iWorks and their PRO tools. But its the hardware that they make a lot on. This is why they have done well with the iPod as well. They make a ton on the device, and very little on iTMS. Licensing OS X to other platforms would drive the revenue of OS X, but the profit margin is minimal, while also potentially decreasing the revenue and in turn profit from their machines.
From a stock holders position, if they did license OS X, I would certainly re-evaluate my positions.
Let's put some perspective on this IBM, Sony and Toshiba have created a CPU which is Power PC based. Apple makes OS software for power PC based computers. The new chip is supposed to be a generation ahead of intel. IBM has sold its itel based pc business- come on people put the pieces together.
Someone on this thread commented that Apple "computers are selling like hot cakes."
Well, last time I looked Apple had about 2% of the worldwide PC market and 3.4% of the US market. If anything, their growth in the PC market has been stagnant.
Now, don't get me wrong. I love Apple products. But like someone else noted, Apple is a small yet lucrative and prestigious niche. They really are like a Porsche or Mercedes in their market...that is a great analogy. So within their niche they do very well, but to expect them to compete for the numbers with the PC crowd is rather far fetched.
Another analogy: I love to go to my local Apple store in an upscale mall. It's always crowded. But then so is the Tiffany's in the same mall. But I don't look at Tiffany's traffic and expect to see everyone start showing up wearing Tiffany's jewelry. I realize it is a small yet lucrative niche, and one that often sets standards for the rest of the industry. That's where Apple stands.
The PC consumer clone market would not be a good fit for OS X. For any proof of that crappy world of thirda-party hardware and Apple OS, just look back at the UMAX and PowerCenter PowerMacs. Utter trash.
But liscensing OS X for use on servers that might be using Linux and the ilk is a great move. As a server OS, OS X does kick serious butt against the Windows Server world. I bet the "PC makers" in this story were strictly high-end server manufacturers.
Jobs wouldn't do this. Apple had tried this whole 3rd party deal back in the 90's. Remember Umax, Power Computing and StarMax clones? Apple is too heavy handed with their control in every aspect of their products.
There's an article from the cNet archives why they decided to stop 3rd party licensees:
"After the purchase of Power Computing, Apple CFO Fred Anderson said, "If we could have a licensing agreement that...grew the base of customers and if it enhanced the shareholder value of Apple, then we would have a positive attitude towards licensees. But through our negotiations with the licensees, we haven't been able to develop an agreement on any program that would meet Apple's objectives."
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-203153.html?legacy=cnet
Jobs is just trying to spread some rumors to create some more favorable buzz for Apple.
If this type of deal were seriously going to happen, he wouldn't be leaking these type of rumors.
Of course, the irony is that if the Apple OS were to gain serious market share their security advantage would erode in proportion to that gain.
For it's very simple: hackers attack the most popular system. If Windows suffers from 98% of the security problems out there it is because 98% of PC users have some flavor of Windows.
If the market share of Apple and Microsoft were reversed, you would see Apple suffer the security problems and people would be complaining about that.
It's kind of misleading to imply that the reason Apple has so little security issues relative to MS is due to some superiority of the code. No software is bulletproof, and Apple's would suffer too if the entire world were gunning for it.
Carl: You go to an "Apple Store" near you. But then again, you can go anywhere now to get an iPod (see the trend?).
in resonse to this:
"And who makes software for OSX? Have you looked at the shelves at CompUSA and elsewhere. There is a tiny little section for MAC/OSX stuff and the entire rest of the store is for PCs. And the MAC stuff seems more expensive to me, too. I'm just saying that practically speaking, MACs aren't a good choice for the average consumer. That's my opinion."
What software are you looking for in CompUSA. I have been a mac user for about a year, and even dating back to my PC days I can't remember the last time I walked in a store and bought software.
The mac comes pre loaded with DVD authoring and burning software; DVD playing software; Music organization, ripping and burning software; Photo organization, burning, publishing, and printing software; and video editing, sharing, software. Oh, and a music authoring multitrack recorder with midi support. And guess what? They are all integrated (Pull pictures from your photolibrary for a movie, pull music from your library for a DVD...without switching programs). So...these are the things most consumers want to do. And they are very robust programs each of them with lots of options not to mention better than anything I have seen on the PC...this stuff is preloaded, standard.
On top of that I have bought Photoshop, which costs the same as the PC version. I have bought Final Cut HD which is comperable in price to Adobe video solutions on the PC. No difference there.
For just about anything else you need, google it. There is free or cheap (20-30 bucks) software all over the web. Exmaples: DVD ripping, video players, Delicious Library, Adium IM client, etc etc. Even the free stuff is better than the crap on the shelves at Best Buy or CompUSA for the PC.
#4 There are 12, 15,18000 Macintosh applications? I'm not sure, but a butt-load to be sure. More than enough for almost everyone, except specialized needs. Your statement is flat wrong.
#13 Apple has sold more than 3 million Mac's a year since Steve came back, and one year over 4 million. That's pretty good. Not to mention that $8,000 invested in Apple in December of 1997, is worth $160,000 right now. Show me a Windows PC company that has that kind of value?
#14 Apple's current market value is over 31.2 BILLION dollars. That means a buyer would need at least 40 BILLION. Sony ain't got that kind of cash right now.
#21 Thank you for your clarity.
As for the rumor, I'm sure it's true. PC's are cheap commodity's, and vendors are looking for ways to differentiate themselves. Mac OSX is a stellar OS. If the cell chip lives up to it's promise, then perhaps the unthinkable could actually happen. But if it does, it will be on cell chips, not X86.
I can imagine a senario where Sony buys Apple's Computer business and licences the OS. Mac OSX becomes just OSX or Apple OSX. For one simple reason, as Steve has said, Apple is primarily a software & internet company. That's what they do best.
The cell chip can make many things possible...or so they say.
Ahh...I still have my PowerComputing machine. Wonder what ever happened to them?
/sarcasm
Whoa...PowerComputing machines were the best! Cheaper, more expandable, and nicely built. Now that was back in the beige days during Jobs hiatus, but still.
Apple would probably do like they did with dell and rebrand Macs with other companies logos.
Like the HPod.
Oh, for everyone: it's Mac, not MAC. MAC = Media Access Control, like MAC Address. Mac = Macintosh, like the computer brand.
Anyway, enough of the pedantry.
Mac OS X Server could sell in the market, with a marginal impact on Apple's hardware revenues. It functions as a PDC and CIFS server on its own, and has no per-user licensing.
For the client side, why would Apple bother. People could just buy a Mini-Mac. The amount of investment needed to support every weirdo chipset out there would negate the benefits of an expanded base of x86 users. You do the math.
we have 2 brand new dual 2ghz G5s w/ a gig of ram. we both experience issues everyday with them. the damn spinning lollipop thing is always running.. and now that ive been on OSX consistanly, i enjoy it but there are alot of holes in terms of efficiency with the UI.
and OSX/iTunes doesnt play with any other products like my Rio Karma! it would nice if iTunes would at least see it and let me import and convert to AAC. ihad to use this open source java app and put the Rio on the network, access it over IP and transfer songs. most are mp3s (192 APS) and some OGG. i cant get iTunes to import them..
i would like to see OSX ported over, however im not sure it will happen. this would confuse the whole "switch" campaign, the mac mini target etc.
Note: I am a senior designer who has been using macs since the performa days.
Someone wrote "Apple has sold more than 3 million Mac's a year since Steve came back, and one year over 4 million."
For perspective, in 2003 Dell sold 25.8 million PCs.
I find it very difficult to take anyone seriously about details of the "MAC" market when they can't even spell "MAC" correctly.
carl: What software? Well go down to your local Best Buy, WalMart, or just about anywhere else and compare the software section for a PC vs. a MAC.
Well, lets see... UT2k4, Halo, Age of Mythology, Quickbooks, Photoshop/illustrator, Super Collapse...
What? We don't get Deer Hunter? Oh dear.
There goes my productivity. If you're valuing a computer based on what you have to ADD to it instead of what COMES with it, you'd be dead wrong, in assuming the WinXP PC is a better choice.
Here's some more fuel for the fire:
Macity reported last November, that Peter Mehring, former Umax and PowerComputing employee, was in line for Apple's chief of hardware division job.
http://www.macitynet.it/macity/aA19767/index.shtml
In response to the nay-sayers who don't believe that Apple computers are selling well:
I am a college student, and I can say that in my Freshman year, I was shocked to see how many people used Powerbooks. Each year after that I have been surprised again and again at how many MORE people switch to using Apple computers, and how many more people I notice on campus toting around their Powerbooks.
I myself am a diehard PC user, who two years ago was as PC-fanboy as you could get, bashing Apple at every turn. I code a fair amount, and do even more graphics work. I'm pondering getting a powerbook soon, even though I know I should be kicking myself for supporting such a slow FSB.
You guys who say that Apple market share is shrinking are kidding yourselves. I work for a major university, and in the past year I have seen the number or Mac portables multiple ten-fold. Also, over Christmas I was in three different Apple stores in three different states and everyone of them was packed. People were buying all the products, not just Ipods. Go back to playing Everquest and downloading shitty porn from Kazaa, and quit making absurd uninformed statements. I'm sure declining market share really drives stock up more than $20 this past year.
ajservo... you have a great point!
If you go to any CompUSA or BestBuy and the majority of PC software is video games. Not to mention the isles and isles of programs to help stabilize Windows (virus software, add on utilities, spyware blockers). The only comprison are the companies whom compete against one another for layout and paint stlye programs... which Apple makes in house. You don't see many of them in the Apple section, but then again its hard to compete with a product Apple gives away... thats better.
Seriously, you Mac people need to get it out of your heads that the Mac is selling well. It's not. It barely makes a blip on the marketshare radar screen. It's just a fact. It will ALWAYS be this way so long as a) Macs stay overpriced, and b) there is no software. Don't toss me three examples of software you can get for the Mac. That's not what any PC user would consider "choice."
Also, Apple will never port OSX to the PC. Why? Well, it sounds like a good idea in theory. However, in the PC world we have this thing called "choice." This means that you can have 1000 PCs lined up in a room and each will be configured with very different hardware. Apple simply can't handle that. They built OSX to run on one kind of hardware. Their brains would explode if they had to consider that their customers might run more than one kind of sound card.
The Mac mini is cool, but nothing is going to change the fact that the Mac currently is very nichey and will stay that way, most likely, forever. Just because you worship everything Apple does or Steve Jobs says doesn't mean that reality isn't something completely different. If they sold as many Mac minis as they do all other forms of Macs, they would still be only a tiny drop in an ocean of PCs. kthxbye,
Marc
Yeah right ... and my wife is Morgan Fairchild
Macs or f**ing MACS...whatever they are will never hit high marketshare. They are for the turtlneck wearing people that have to have the super white items in their home offices. People who can afford them should buy them..then they can go have their mochas with their friends and talk about MACS or Mac's or Apple and how they love their turtlenecks. PC's are just too easy to get...rip apart...mod....tweak...u name it.
I'm not sure where the Mac hate comes from, but there is a lot of uniformed people on here making a lot of crazy statements.
No one is expecting Apple to become the next "Dell". But the facts are that they hold around 2% worldwide share, and 3.6% in the USA. Analysts predict nearly a 4% worldwide share by the end of 2005.
This is still not that much compared to the billions of Windows PCs floating out there, but it certainly is NOT Apple "losing market share". And from looking at their profits, it certainly is "selling well". iPods only make up 30% of their revune, while the rest is from the Mac line.
I don't think anyone expects Apple to replace Windows in the future, there is just a lot of things OSX was never designed to support. Many businesses today are still running legacy DOS apps that are critical to their business needs. Many use inhouse designed software for Windows that will never have the source code touched again. OSX wont replace any of that, and I dont think Mac users, or even Apple even want to think about replacing those needs.
Apple will more than likely remain a niche market for graphics and multimedia artists, while making headway into other markets that they might be able to handle (Grandma and Grandpa wanting a system with no malware that can run a web browser and email and be intuitive).
All those people that associate Macs with certain lifestyles (turtlenecks, etc) have a bizarre complex. I mean, come on, it's a freaking computer.
Mac users are turtleneck-wearing, latte-sipping, chardonnay-drinking poofs. Not like us truck-driving, flannel-wearing, coffee and dunkin-donut eatin' beef lovers.
Hah! You've bought more into advertising culture than you care to admit. It just goes to show that advertising really does affect people in strange an unintended ways. You are not what you buy...unless you want to be.
What everyone here seems to forget is that 99% of computer users don't care about "ripping it apart, tweaking, etc". However, they also don't care about user interface or elegance. They use what their COMPANY bought them, and just don't care what features or OS it has. People can trumpet marketshare numbers back and forth, but it doesn't matter. Apple is very profitable right now, thankyouverymuch, so their overall marketshare just doesn't matter much.
What I would *love* to see are marketshare numbers with business, consumer, education, and government purchases broken out. I think you'd see *very* different numbers in the last three segments than 3%.
>Couldn't they create an OS based on Darwin, the >Open Source, UNIX-based foundation of Mac OS X? >I've heard there is a project already doing that >for PC use.
Sure you can, darwin runs just fine but its still just only a peice of OSX. You must run X Window just like on linux. In most cases you'd be better off running Linux or freeBSD. Unless they open up more of the OS, Darwin has nothing over other OSS alternatives, unless you are building server software to run on both platforms.
26
Of course, the irony is that if the Apple OS were to gain serious market share their security advantage would erode in proportion to that gain.
-------
Not really. Everyone knows about Apple. If there were a huge virus that got to be the first Mac virus, it would be a big deal. You don't think Microsoft would publicize it?! You don't think guys like Enderle and Thurrott would publicize it? You don't think CBS Marketwatch would publicize it?
Getting notoriety for a Windows virus, no offense, is sooo mid-nineties. There have been THOUSANDS of Windows virii.. How much notoriety do you think Mr. 16,000 got?
He was on the news?
There are about 20 -30 million Mac users out there. There are about 500 million PC users... and many many more with stolen copies of Windows.
So looking at the numbers.. with upwards of 600 million Windows users, not ONE despises Apple enough to write a virus?
This is called the Security through Obscurity Myth. The sooner you stop talking like this, the better. Apple's always taken Security very seriously.. MS, not so much.
Even SP2, they had to leave some communication ports open, because SP2 was breaking so many programs... as a result, there are still weaknesses. On the Mac, you really can't spread a virus, because it's imposisble to install ANYTHING without Admin access (a dialog box comes up and you type a username and password.). A virus that doesn't proliferate and multiply ceases to be a virus.
That's what Apple has over MS. That's why MS is longing to have every feature in OS X. Trust me. MS looooves OS X. They're not gonna stray too far from Apple's 5 year lead.
As for software... BestBuy or CompUSA are at fault for not putting any Mac OS X Software on store shelves, not Apple. Check Amazon.com, check Apple's site for tons of software. It's out there, 18,000 Apps...
I am not sure if I have a bizarre complex or not. I do like beef though. I am from Canada...better watch out I may have gotten mad cow disease.
To #45...99% of computer users don't car eabout ripping the computer apart...tweaking it or modifying it? Thats a pretty bold statement to make. I always thought the joy of PC's were the ability to change things out..and Horsepower to the system and take it beyond the point it was built for.
As for elegance and beauty im sure that is in the eye of the beholder. I like seeing my dual 21 inch monitors sitting on my desk with my black non-modded antec case hmming along quietly.
We can argue this til were blue in the face. The company is profitable no doubt about it. But they are profitable to the niche market. I have nothing against that market either until they rear their heads and shout out about how great apple is. Security, viruses blah blah blah. Flip it around and OSX woudl be hacked to pieces if it was even close to the amount of windows users in teh world. Simple Fact. Same argument as IE and Firefox.
Keep on gobbling up those underpowered overpriced niche computers....just don't get your turtleneck caught in your ass when u find time to pull it out.