Israel's kosher phone
posted March 7th 2005 10:38AM
An Israeli wireless carrier called MIRS Communication is offering a line of Motorola cellphones that have been
modified to make them more appealing to the country's community of ultra-Orthodox Jews. For starters, all the phones
carry a stamp of approval from rabbinical authorities. Then, to make sure the phones comply with all of the dictates of
the ultra-Orthodox faith, all Internet access, SMS text messaging, video, and voice mail have been disabled on the
phones. And in case that isn't enough, the carrier's calling plan offers really low charges for calls to other
subscribers within the network and really high charges for calls outside the network in hopes of discouraging
communications with anyone outside the ultra-Orthodox community.
[Via textually.org]
WOW and no one even had to ask them if they were segregationist. More power to the isolationists. Now that they've got it on the books that they don't want to communicate with the rest of the world, how about the rest of the world stop giving them aid or communicating with them.
Does the phone refuse to switch on during the Sabbath?
Err what aid is sent to the ultra orthodox community of Israel? Do you think they make up the majority?
They are definitely not the majority. But they wield a significant amount of political clout by virtue of the fact that the Israeli parliamentary system is notoriously fractured, and coalition governments are the typical means of governing the country. It gives small parties - and by association, their supporters and associated communities - relatively strong voices in how the country is run.
Interestingly, there is a long tradition of the rabbinate ruling on the acceptability - or lack thereof - of certain technologies and their uses.
Carmi
http://writteninc.blogspot.com
please leave the political comments for somewhere else...
On a related note, your Palm PDA can be kosher and Jewish too, see this site:
http://www.pilotyid.com
and
http://www.pilotyid.com/kosher.php
and
http://www.pilotyid.com/loans.php
Enjoy!
help me out here
Why are SMS and voicemail evil?
"help me out here
Why are SMS and voicemail evil?"
Isn't SMS spam a problem overseas? Maybe they don't want porn spam on their phones.
Great, its bad enough I have to pay to have all my food "blessed" and stamped with the special K, undoubtedly costing me more as a consumer. Now I have to have my cell phone blessed? I don't like where this is going...
#9 - Kosher food is not blessed.
As an orthodox Jew myself, I've learned to take stories like these with a huge grain of salt. For one, the reporter who writes the story very often will unkowingly leave out an important fact or two. (For instance, what's unkosher about SMS and voicemail? I'm a Jew and I never heard about it)
Second, these are usually ideas that some individual or small group comes up with that are never accepted by the mainstream. Rest assured that most Israelis, religious and secular will continue to use all the features of their cellphones.
Chris,
Thank you for continuing to propogate anti-semitism, and for making engadget your venue of choice. The 'kosher symbol' you see on products is a marketing cost, so that people who keep a kosher diet (not only Jews by the way) know that they can use these products.
Do you complain about the costly ad campaigns companies produce to target any other small niche/market? For example, if you are not a spanish speaking person, and Coke spends millions on spanish ads, wouldnt that be "costing you as a consumer" as well?
In any case, the facts are that having the kosher symbol on a product can actually lower costs by giving the product a larger market, see the following page for more info on this, and please stop using engadget to spread your hate. Thanks.
http://www.adl.org/special_reports/kosher_tax/kosher_intro.asp
Religion - it's great isn't it?
Dave,
Maybe you can shed some light on this...assuming this story is true. What exactly is the advantage gained by penalizing communication with non Orthodox Jews? Aside from possibly preventing "negative" influences from reaching followers/subscribers via phone conversations and IMs, I can't really see any rational reason to self-segregate like that.
If anything, considering that anti-semetism is still very much a reality, you'd think that anything that can provide more exposure to your particular doctrine would be a benefit...it can only assist in acceptance and understanding, not bring down the Orthodox side of things. And considering how devout and hardened Orthodox followers tend to be, I doubt they could be swayed by any outside contact with non-Orthodox followers or even gentiles. I mean, Judaism is a beautiful religion that many people have converted to willingly and completely, so I would think anything that increases exposure would be a good thing(in theory).
I'm probably missing something vital that's key to being Orthodox, because I'm not Jewish myself, but all of my Jewish friends(none of which are Orthodox) are scratching their heads over that particular part of this story. "That's like saying if you're Amish you can only use 30W or less lightbulbs." was something that came up in conversation. They said that because they've already made the plunge by using a phone/cellphone(Orthodox followers), why enforce artificial rules for something that couldn't have been forseen ages ago but is now a reality and could be a potential issue today(if they choose to make it an issue). How do the restrictions make the phone Kosher?
I know cellphones are massively popular in Israel and that the vast majority of users would never think to or want to cripple their phones this way...that's not surprising, but what is surprising is why some group would allow cellphones then enforce rules like this on subscribers. Again, I'm assuming the story is true and that there is something rational behind the restrictions.
after this
theyll say non kosher cellphones are anti-semite
The term 'kosher' here is meant to be somewhat humorous. There is nothing Kosher about it. And there is nothing that makes a phone without SMS access better for Jews.
Although Im not a devout Jew, I do know a fair share about the religion and I am positively sure that god doesn't care one way or another if you text message or not.
As long as the phone wasn't made out of pig fat, I think they're cool for Jews to use. Orthodox Jews are another story, and they like to have very strict rules so that they couldn't accidentally break the real important rules. Which could explain the SMS thing. If anyone could send you a SMS message, maybe its going to be the Sabbath, or someone could send you a message of some sort of gossip (something that is looked down upon within the religion)
But this is still just a novelty and not important to Judaism
of_the_apes, to be honest, I think the whole idea is ridiculous.
While the story is probably true, I have to assume that there's more to it than is included in the original article.
An important thing you have to realize is that using a cell phone is not "taking a plunge" for an orthodox Jew. We aint Amish :-)
Within any religious group there are always those that seek to kick things up a notch. Judaism has its Jerry Falwells too.
Some Orthodox Jews don't own televisions, others won't use the internet, many won't go to a movie. The idea behind this is that there's a lot of smut out there that this people want to avoid. They want to carry out the commandment to "be holy"- basically to guard one's eyes and ears from shmootz (Thats yiddish for dirt)
All I can possibly think of is that some guy told his Rabbi that he knows a guy who downloaded porn on his phone (or something like that) In turn the Rabbi said "ban all SMS!" (My bet is that he has know idea what SMS is.)
So to answer you're question, people are irrationall and they can sometimes do irrational things.
Dave,
That's all I could think of - porn and whatnot...which seems a remote possibility, but still a possibility. I guess I can see why they'd limit the capabilities of the phone and limit outside contact now. I didn't mean to imply that you're like the Amish, just that this is how cellphones come today(fully featured) and crippling them seems limiting in the way the Amish avoid technology for religious reasons(but the Orthodox restrictions seem far less restrictive)
So, thanks! That was a very good explanation for something that to an outsider seems very curious.
As an orthodox male who actually understands the "ban" and it's causes I can assure you that just as with most of the rules and regulations of any religion, you cannot possibly understand this "ban" without first being aware of many of the basics of the religion. Additionally if you read the article, the point of the high tarrifs on calling out of the network is to encourage others to purchase cellphones that are acceptable, not to limit one's contact with non-orthodox. Additionally this cellphone is only one specific variety being offered by the company, no one is being forced to purchase this cellphone and it's special calling rates
At least the orthodox Jews have cell phones. The Arabs? Those guys are still talking on tin cans and string! "Hey, Mohammed...wanna come over and beat my wife? She showed her ankles today and now she's gonna pay!"
Ari,
I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to understand the "ban" without a complete understanding of complexities of the religion. I feel that is an arrogant stance to take, especially when someone is genuinely interested in understanding the reasoning behind all this.
My whole point was that I don't understand why they need to limit the phone calling plan to encourage usage of the phone - It seems that if this is indeed the preferred and purer method of making a phone call, they wouldn't need to have any pricing difference to justify adoption, the lack of features would be the selling point. From a purely logistical and financial standpoint, this seems isolationist and not an actual legitimate reason.
Look at it this way - there's no reason why the phones couldn't be sold this way by a giant national carrier. Everyone who has a plan with that carrier, Orthodox or not, would pay the same price for calls, but maybe different prices for the phone(possibly less for a simpler phone, or possibly more to disable the features depending on how it had to be implemented - labor has to be paid for somehow).
What then would be the reason to not adopt this particular phone other than it's not from the Orthodox carrier? If the only selling point is that it's from an Orthodox carrier, the pricing again becomes moot, Orthodox cellphone owners would still want to adopt the phone because of who's running the company. If your plan is to isolate, the pricing makes much more sense at this point.
If the Orthodox carrier wants to increase adoption of this phone it would make more sense to set an even pricing plan and offer phones of all types(since they offer non-crippled phones) to people of all types - that way they're decreasing their initial overhead by increasing their ability to purchase in bulk.
Have you people ever been to a european GSM country? In those countries it costs more money to call someone with a different carrier than to call someone on your own. This is probably an extension of that, but instead of being something the carrier doesn't want to talk about, in this situation it's marketed as something good.
I think that people who have questions should read the original article, it is much more in-depth than the blurb posted here.
JS,
Your response is just as racist as the one about a kosher tax.
Here is the link to the original article
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-1508115,00.html
JS,
Your response is just as racist as the one about a kosher tax.
Here is the link to the original article
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-1508115,00.html
1. No Rabbis (to my knowledge, at least not my Rabbis) have banned other cell phones; each person has their own free will to get whatever cell phone they want. This is just another niche market.
2. Wouldn't it be great if a parent could give their child a special cell phone that encourages them to only call their family and approved friends; not that the rest of the kids are bad, but there are some rotten apples out there and why take the risk.
3. There is no screening process, anyone can get one of these cell phones -- now you can infiltrate and substantiate more of your ridiculous conspiracy theories.
4. Verizon offers free in network calling; those close-minded "segregationists."
Comment #18 was pretty funny, in that it's highly likely it was made by someone who's never been in Rolls Royce in her/his life, maybe never even seen one on the road, and yet s/he's ridiculing Arabs for having no cellphones. That's probably because the only Arab nations s/he's heard of are Iraq and Iran, maybe Saudi Arabia, probably Kuwait, but never Oman or the UAE or Qatar, for example.
JS, there are Arabs out there who have more money than you could comprehend (even if someone gave you a calculator) and that lot are sitting pretty with their ivy league and oxbridge educations and their big cars with little fridges in them. Hell, in Tunisia women are treated as equal. You making fun of Arabs is the heights of self-inflicted tragicomedy.
Oh, and by the way, Muslims are a target market too:
http://www.slashphone.com/89/722.html
Quote from #18
"At least the orthodox Jews have cell phones. The Arabs? Those guys are still talking on tin cans and string!"
----
All I know is that If I see an arab with a cell phone, I am looking for the bomb that it will soon be attached to...
#18 by JS
"The Arabs? Those guys are still talking on tin cans and string! "Hey, Mohammed...wanna come over and beat my wife? She showed her ankles today and now she's gonna pay!"
I love the fairness in all of this. When someone makes a comment about Jews, its anti-semitism, but if its about arabs or muslims, well then its all good. JS, it amazes me how people like yourself can claim to be purveyors of justice in the land of the free and home of the brave, yet so easily deride arabs and make crude remarks about the islamic faith.
I for one am muslim and arab, and am thoroughly offended by the hate crime you just spewed here. For your information, and for all those out there that wish to continue this ignorant biased rhetoric, islam is entirely and utterly against beating or mistreatment of any kind towards women. By the way, Islam outlaws alcohol, which is the number one cause of domestic violence in the US, and most of the rest of the world.
Although I should be surprised to see such ignorance out of a reader of engadget, i am not. Muslims and arabs have been painted to be cavemen. Anyone who believes in justice and equality should be totally offended by this remark. I for one have been offended when someone truly makes an anti-semetic remark.
I want to thank Sully and shiny_aubergine for standing up and responding to JS's racist remark. On behalf of all those people that are offended by this, Thank You.
p.s. FYI - arabs never used tin cans for communication, arab and muslim people are very technologically advanced and have high percentages of their society owning cell phones, computers and the like, so please JS, let's all try to speak with some intelligence, not ignorance. Same with you Jerald Bernard, seems you two know each other.
Quote from comment 24:
"All I know is that If I see an arab with a cell phone, I am looking for the bomb that it will soon be attached to..."
Hurh hurh hurh, you're funny man. Hey, wait, if he's got a cell phone, why'd he wanna attach it to the bomb, it's got no wires, right? He could just, you know, ring up the bomb or something and order it to explode. You don't need to attach it, cuz if you attached it, you'd use wires and a cellphone doesn't need wires, yeah? Geddit? Yeah? Guess it's just cuz he's a dumb old Arab hurh hurh hurh, bet he tries to plug his p910 into his powerbook to sync it up too, the dirty old Arab hurh hurh hurh...
Hey, hey, hey! Let's not bring the P910 into this.
As always these articles only tell part of the story. MIRS are an iDEN operator and use Nextel like push to talk therefore the reason for high charges outside groups is that they are trying to get everyone to get an iDEN phone and be part of the group it is probably nothing to do with isolationism at all but simple marketing!
You ppl r so gullible.
Its a joke article.
NOT an actual product
Hi,
Several points.
#1- No one is forcing anyone to do anything. In Judaism, the concept of a 'Rabbi' as an authority simply does not exist. A learned Jew is definitely respected, and many may follow his words, but in Judaism, only a 'Bet Din'- a Jewish court- has authority. And in fact, until the time of the Moshiach, the Bet Din has a limited authority as well. (Although a true Prophet is also to be given authority in his words...)
In other words, if one chooses the 'Kosher Phone', then it is ones own choice, based on conviction.
In essence, however, it is taught in Judaism that since G-d created/creates the universe, therefore, physical creations are meant to be *uplifted* for a good and G-dly purpose. This means, instead of frowning away from the physical world, to embrace it, but in a way that one is not a slave to it, but rather uplifts it in a good and G-dly way.
Based on this, I believe a better idea as oppose to cutting out access to SMS etc. might be to have a 'Kosher Limit', much like an Internet Filter. It would simply not allow access to undesireable websites and it would not pass through words which were improper.
While this concept might sound foreign to some people, I might be able to explain it in a brief way: suppose someone wished to get themselves together, and guide their mind and heart to be in a good place. Suppose one decided to dedicate ones actions to be in sync with a 3,000+ year old tradition which has been passed through the generations, as a word from G-d. Suppose that this endeavor is truly a difficult task in todays day, based on many factors. With all this taken into consideration, maybe an extra help, in the form of a limit on the ability of ones own devices, might help one in this path. It is not a frown upon technology at all, but rather a guide for it to be placed in its correct place- ie. as a means to enhance ones life and abilities for connection to others.
In other words, just as one might eat Kosher- through his own free choice- in order to keep with the guidelines in the Jewish Torah, so too he may feel it proper to limit his devices abilities to ones which would be productive in his view on life.
But once again, I believe that instead of cutting the services out, it may make more sense to limit them, much like a family Internet Filter...
While this is being mentioned, it should be noted that Judaism sees the world as entering a new age which will be very different than all the past. It will be an age where there will simply be no bad, period. No non-good inclinations, and no war, hunger, disease etc... Good will be plentiful, and mankind will be living as a new entity, with G-dliness known to all, just as one knows the physical world.
The reason that I'm mentioning this is since the world is currently in the transitionary stage, it is a balancing act between enlightenment, and the exact opposite, and when each is dominant. (Eg. on the one hand the Internet is an amazing tool for good, yet on the other, in the interim, it can be used for things which are truly not conducive for life...)
I hope it has been somewhat clear...
Meir
lennyoneelevenAtAtYahooYahooDotDotComCom