Oblivious to the urban legends, CT state senator wants to ban using cellphones at gas stations
By Peter Rojas 
posted March 9th 2005 8:09AM
posted March 9th 2005 8:09AM
Apparently Connecticut state senator Andrea Stillman has decided to introduce legislation based on a chain email she
received, because she is trying to get a law passed that would require drivers to hang up their cellphones before
filling up their cars at a gas station or face a $250 fine. This is despite the fact that there's
no evidence that a cellphone has ever sparked a fire at a gas
station.
[Via textually.org]
And didn't she see the Mythbusters episode on this? They completely debunked it, in their usual psuedo-scientific way.
Anywho, it's a dumb law. Write to Sen. Stillman and let her know why she's off on this one:
Stillman@senatedems.ct.gov
That's only because our state senators have solved every other problem in the state... yeah that's it.
She should have see MythBusters on Discovery Channel. In Episode 2: Cell Phone Destruction
In this episode, Jamie and Adam test several explosive theories. Can chatting on a cell phone while pumping gas cause the pump to blow up? NO!
In UK, it is illegal to use ur cellphone in gas stations despite having no evidence that cellphones start fires
Didn't they disprove this on Mythbusters? Someone send this asshat a tape.
Oops, sorry for the redundancy, I just got the confirmation email.. good call, n8.
In Spain, since last summer, it is illegal to use your cellphone in gas stations.
Not only did Mythbusters disprove it but they also found silk panties pose more of a risk by building up a static charge as the woman pivots on the drivers seat to exit the vehicle. Perhaps the senator should introduce a bill fining women who wear silk panties while using a gas pump...
how about a fine for the idiots you see smoking a cigarette with one hand while filling their tank with the other...
Breaking news:
Connecticut state senator Andrea Stillman has introduced another bill. This one requires all Conneticut citizens to forward the "Bill Gates and Walt Disney Jr" email to at least 10 people. The added revenue of an estimated $1000 per person will be used to revitalize the state's economy. In addition, the free trip to Disney World is sure to boost the morale of the state.
There's already signs on the pumps, atleast in Minnesota, that say to not use your cell phone while pumping gas. Some places won't turn on your pump if they see you on the phone.
It's not a matter of has it been proven yet but a matter of is it possible. True Mythbusters may have tested this but there are several variables that need to be taken into consideration.
What make and model of cell phone is used. What type of electronics are in the cell phone (type of button functionality). Has the cell phone been dropped or damaged. What was the vapor level in the area tested, was it above the upper explosion level or was it below the lower explosion level. Was it an original battery or a defective replacement battery.
The chances of the explosion are VERY VERY Low but the chances are still there.
The cellular phones on the market today are not sealed properly to allow usages in an explosive atmosphere. There are multiple points where that tiny spark (from a button press or a loose battery connection) could detonate the fumes. Once again the chances are very very limited but still a possibility.
There are a lot of issues with explosive atmosphere which Mythbusters failed to inform their viewers about. I would love to have a debate about this issue with the show's producers.
All explosive gases have a UEL and a LEL, natural gas, propane, methane. Explosive gases also have a flash point (the temperature at which combustion can begin) which needs to be met. It all comes back to that tiny little Fire Triangle that we all learned about back in our grade school science class. Oxygen, Fuel, and Heat all are required to meet that chemical reaction.
Besides, does it really hurt to wait 5 minutes to make that order to the Chinese Restaurant?
Did you know that dihydrogen monoxide is the largest component of acid rain and a large swell of it recently killed over 200,000 people in indonesia. LETS BAN IT !!!!!!
True Story - I was approached recently by a gas station attendent and here is how it went down:
-Attendent: Excuse me, but you can't talk on your cell phone while pumping gas
-Me(dumbfounded): Are you kidding?
-Attendent: No
-Me: You know that a cell phone can't start a gas fire right?
-Attendent: Whatever
-Me (into cellphone): I guess I have to hang up, obviously not enough people watch Mythbusters
I read an IEEE article where real electrical engineers determined that if you have a defective battery that explodes while you are pumping gas, you'll still be fine. Maybe I should find it and keep it in the car next time I'm in CT.
I don't think it is worht the risk. Sometimes it pays to be careful. I won't really trust some TV show.
The point isn't whether or not people should be talking on their phones, or even whether to trust "some TV show." The issue is whether we (collectively) should legislate based on junk science and rumor, prohibiting activities that are not shown to be harmful. If we do, we end up curtailing all sorts of activities because of the potential of threat, rather than because of actual threat.
I love the comments on here that say "you can't be too safe, I'm not taking chances". You know people, life is a risk in itself. The birth process is probably more risky than anything else you've ever faced in life and yet you got through that just fine didn't you? Lighten up, live a little!
Getting out of the car and generating static electricity is what is going to kill you. If my phone's battery blows up it will probably do that in my pocket even if I'm not using it. I've seen a few gas stations that have a "touch here" sticker next to the pump to discharge the static electricity you build up. Thats what we need more of, instead of these urban myths. And Im still waiting on my free copy of Windows 95 after forwarding that email years ago.
leaving your car running isn't likely to cause a fire either. notice how all the cars driving past you (hint : they are running) don't cause anything to explode? nor even smoking while filling up would cause an explosion. *lighting* a cigerette ... yeah. smoking one? no. go toss a cigerette into a can of gas. go toss a ringing cell phone into a tank of gas. oooo. scary.
gasoline itself isn't all that flammable. it's the vapor. and any vapor near where a cell phone or a cigerette or a running car would be... would be sufficiently dispursed enough to not cause any concern. the real concern comes from ungrounded static discharge... from a person getting in and out of a car building up static. and not grounding until they grab the nozzle. or filling up a plastic static generating gas can up on a trailer or the bed of a truck. and even then you have to build up a pretty healthy sized charge. both those situation are FAR more likely to cause an issue than the ones people mistakenly get frightened by due to their misunderstanding of the actual issue. and absurd hollywood exhanced expectations concerning the explodability of gasoline.
i swear more people need to have had some healthy un-supervised un-nannyed playtime with flammable liquid when they were growing up. otherwise you start thinking gasoline in real life works just like gasoline in Die Hard. wrong.
here's another news flash : shooting *any* part of a car (bumper / windshield / tire / mirror / antenna) with a handgun does NOT cause it to explode and flip end over end 19 times. crazy. i know! all it does is make a hole! that's it!
(yeah. i was a bit thick with the hyperbole in this post. oh well.)
I sent her an email, maybe she'll get a bunch of them letting her know this is pointless. Then again, since she works in gov't, probably not.
Senator Stillman should also consider passing bills on:
- banning payphone change slots, because people put used needles in there
- banning flashing your lights toward incoming cars that have highbeams, because gang members will shoot you as part of an initiation ritual
- banning Neiman Marcus, for charging that poor woman $495 for a cookie recipe
- banning idiot government officials who believe everything they read on the Internet
There are more of those "we're not taking any chances" regulations around. I just read that Dutch mothers are advised not to give their youngest children more than two or three sweets or drinks with artificial sweeteners. There's no scientific proof that too many artificial sweeteners could be bad for a young child, but hey! it's better to be safe than sorry. The same goes for the "dangerous" radiation from cell phones. No hard evidence that it could actually harm you, but still British government folks will now warn against giving children cell phones because there's no evidence that it's safe either. It's just science paranoia disguised as good sense.
"go toss a cigerette into a can of gas"
Having been a minor infernist in my youth (a practice sanctioned and coached by my father...a MAJOR infernist in HIS youth) I can say that a cigerette into a PAN of gasoline will definitely ignite it. Most other flamable liquids (alcohol, most oils, kerosin, hypo, jet fuel) require an open flame. Many of those will actually put a cigarette or any other 'smoldering' ignition source OUT...unless the fuel is completely in a gaseous state or sometimes in a fine mist.
I never had the guts to put a cigarette into an enclosed fuel source. Usually when I would make fire crackers or bombs of various sorts, sealing them tighter just cause the breach point to be high and the eventual explosions stronger (this was of course usually with solid fuels), but even with gasoline I would imagine if there isn't enough air in the system, ignition will not occur.
I tend to disagree when people say an exploding battery CAN'T ignite gasoline fumes. Open flames , regardless of how they are produced, WILL ignite gasoline fumes...if the fumes are sufficiently concentrated.
The only reason that static ever ignites them is that the sparks are usually generated right at the mouth of the gas tank. If you've ever observed someone filling their gas in the late afternoon sun, you can (depending on the angle) see the thick gas fumes gushing out. But by the time they get up where your head, and ostensibly your exploding phone, is they are disipating into the air and are no longer as concentrated.
So unless you are a midget, or are huffing gas fumes from your car while talking on an exploding cell phone, or are actually TRYING to toast your ride in the most inefficient way possible (and as Mythbusters proved, sometimes even if you ARE trying), even though you COULD, you WON'T blow up your car in this fashion.
"swear more people need to have had some healthy un-supervised un-nannyed playtime with flammable liquid when they were growing up. otherwise you start thinking gasoline in real life works just like gasoline in Die Hard. wrong."
I agree, you can't replace memories like that in your declining years...
ah...the halcyon days bfore I turned 18 and became responsible for my own actions...
Mmmmkay. Dunno if anyone else commenting is from Utah, but a month or so a go a lady was filling her Isuzu Trooper when her cellphone went off and immediately her Trooper burst into flames. Made the news because a bystander braved the flames to pull her toddler out of a window broke to get the child out.
The news also cited a another, similar incident that had happened somewhat recently.
So I know it's only heresay until I provide links, but I was (gullible-ly?) completely under the impression that they had confirmed the cellphone's role in igniting the fire....in both cases.
I'll look around and see if I can come up with something
Well, there's always this, too:
http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp
I've googled a few times, and found no references to any such occurence in Ohio or elsewhere, only this:
http://www.accidentreconstruction.com/newsletter/jul02/gaspump2.asp
Well... found a link:
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,515036655,00.html
but color me Gomer it cites sources saying evidence can be inconclusive.
I'm no physics guy, but is there a difference between standing there with a bucket of gas and having your cellphone ring, and having your cell ring then touching a gas pump or your car....?
We're absolutely sure that static discharge doesn't work in this way? Forgive....I've not seen the Mythbusters episode. ;)
Actually, now that you mention it...I suppose if somebody were holding the cell phone at their side (either preparing to make a call, or having just finished talking) and leaning against the car while the pump is going it might end up near enough to the tank's mouth for it's exploding to get the fumes. Or if they were talking on it and it EXPLODED (not just flamed out, but blew apart) and flaming debris shot at/into/on the tank mouth I guess it could happen.
Maybe it's more likely than I thought.
The probability of these events coinciding still seems exceedingly remote. Then again, there are supposedly ~3 billion car refuelings a year in the US alone, so even with long odds it might not just be a possibility, but a statistical eventuality.
Unless of course the gas fumes (even when dilute) are actually what's causing the cell phone explosion (rapidly deteriorating/coroding some part of the phone or battery to the point that it explodes) which in turn ignites the fumes...
I dunno...I suppose anything's possible...
Thank you to all of you long winded scientists that wrote pages worth of comments I skipped over. I assume you bailed Slashdot because no one would listen to you there.
Anyways as the first comment said... write the Senator. You have a greater chance ramming you car into something than blowing up a gas station while on the phone. How about we ban that?
Also let me start a new urban legend: It's possible to blow up your house while on your cell phone. (As long as you left your gas stove on overnight.)
So in conclusion: anything is possible with the right variables present!
once again, a cell phone isn't going to cause a fire. the mythbusters retested it with broken batteries, and there isn't enough current to cause a spark. so even if the phone is damaged it wouldn't cause the gas to ingite. also, your car isn't going to explode or anything because...the firefighters that tested the static ignition said that if it does ignite, just leave the pump in your car, and your gas tank will contain the fire. (and tell the attendant so they can shut down the pump.)
as many of you know, the static is caused by people he get in and out of their car while pumping gas...without touching their car or other grounded metal to discharge. and when they go for the handle the static discharges, and with the gas vapors, poom.
ps. stupid women senators. lol j/k
I'd much rather "risk it" and have the person make the call while they're pumping gas instead of having them try to dial while driving, or even while pulling out of the gas station and then ramming into a pump (or worse yet, the back of a pinto).
There's no evidence whatsover that refueling while using a cell phone is dangerous. There's LOTS of compelling evidence that DRIVING while using a cellphone is dangerous.
Which do they want to make illegal in CT?
Hmmm.
PEI has been following gas station fires and han't found a single one started by cell phone. What they have found is fires started by static electricity.
Mythbusters absolutely tested every aspect of this, except for not being able to find the aftermarket batteries in Asia that malfunctioned and started a fire. (They tested shorting batteries in the cellphone to start a fire...no go.)
Is there an infintessimally small chance a malfuctioning cell phone in perfect circumstances can start a fire at a pump? Probably. Are the chances in the vacinity of 1,000,000 times more likely that just driving your car up to the pump will generate enough static or something else from the engine to start a fire? YES! ABSOLUTELY! Let's ban cars to the permeter of gas stations! Obviously at some point, risk is too small to have to worry about.....the smokers, on the other hand.....!
Fact is, if PEI isn't the least bit concerned about cellphones, and they are the ones studying it, neither should you be....or a senator who is moving to waste money & time making law based on spam mail.....soild political footing that is!
http://www.pei.org/static/index.htm
Mattfn