Count Apple in on Blu-ray

Leave it to Apple never to do anything half-assed—not only did they decide to get on the Blu-ray bandwagon and join the ranks of Blu-ray Association, but they found themselves immediately sitting down on the main board. Yet another fat nail in the coffin of HD-DVD; not too shabby for a company that only sells between 2 and 5% of computers, right? Still, we wonder how they'll feel about now about being a member of a Sony standards group, and having to support Microsoft's WMV HD (aka VC-1) codec in addition the standard MPEG-4 H.264. But it should all be worth it for them, to sit alongside such illustrious board member names as Dell (think they'll shoot spitwads at each other?), HP, Hitachi, LG, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Thomson (RCA), Fox, and Disney. Ahem. Welcome to the club.

[Via Digital-Lifestyles]

[Sam @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

This gives you a little something to think about- first, there were rumors that Sony might become the first company to get a license to use OSX in their machines.

Now, Apple announces their support for a standard that is Sony-backed. Perhaps Apple and Sony are deeper in bed together than anyone even realizes.

[Mitesh Gowani @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

Fraternizing with the enemy!!!!! Bad Apple, bad!!!!

[Apple_Admirer @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

You forgot to mention the founder of Blu-Ray association, which is Sony Corp. Apple backing Sony's format - now that's VERY intriguing. Apple working with two foes - Microsoft and Sony. That's what I call refreshing thinking from the Apple strategists. I hope that Blu-Ray is a superior standard and that Sony WINS this time with it..

[met @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

Blue-ray was the next gen disc, HD-DVD was the last gen disc made better. Apple would have looked bad going along with outdated technology made better. oh wait...they did do a shuffle...I take back my argument :)

[omgwtfbbq @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

this is awesome, I can watch all the mac fanboys cry :D

[Nojopar @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

Blu-ray... HD-DVD.... who cares? Sure, I bet there are solid arguements for one side or the other... but I simply don't care. Multiple competing standards just needlessly confuse things. I hope one sneaks into the other one's room sometime soon and puts it out of our misery. Don't care which one either.

[The Jeremy @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

It was a given that Apple would back Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray has the most support amongst hardware manufacturers (but not the studios) and has the best storage capacity. Its just like how Apple back DVD-R over DVD+R, due to the vast amount of hardware that worked best with DVD-R. Apple can really make BD-R really shine with their bundled apps. Just wait until iLife06 hits. Too bad Apple hasn't bought Delicious Monster (yet). Imagine how cool Delicious Monster would be bundled with iLife? I also think with Microsoft bundling a regular DVD drive in with the Xbox Next will really handicap it in the eyes of the college gamers just as the Sega Dreamcast looked wounded shipping too early without a DVD drive compared to the PS2. Now if Sony would embrace (to a limited extent like what TiVo does) the homebrew hackers that added media player functions to the original Xbox so they'll jump ship to the PS3...(and no, I'm not talking about for pirating purposes either).

[Jeff @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

"Blu-ray... HD-DVD.... who cares? Sure, I bet there are solid arguements for one side or the other..."

You mean like the fact that Blu-Ray can hold twice as much data?

I don't think there's ever really been a question about which is the superior format, there have just been various companies on the other side with a vested interest in HD-DVD that have tried to promote its "advantages" (the main one being backward compatibility, but at the cost of far less data per disc).

As for "who cares", I think anybody who cares about both image quality and the amount of content they can see and store on a disc should care...

[AD @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

"the enemy"?

Apple is a large US corporation which eschews proprietary technology just the same as Microsoft, Sun or HP � only that Microsoft has been far more successful.

Apple wouldn�t exist without Microsoft�s support.

I really admire the drool quality of Apple hardware but, seriously, Apple isn�t that different to Microsoft.

If you want to really think different you have to use Linux. But then you�ll have to use, say, OpenOffice. And if you do you�re relying on Java � which isn�t open technology it�s Sun owned technology. Essentially, the large tech corporations are all much alike.

[tainted @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

Let's all remember, now. Betamax was the superior technology as well.

This changes nothing. We're still going to be in for a long haul of dual-format existance.

The technology for HD/BR dual format drives already exists. I'm all for having a single format, but there's no compatability concerns for anyone who knows how to pick a playback device. Capitalism will prove itself again and pick the winner or declare a draw.

[Carmi @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

Maybe we can now get on with the business of developing technologies around the strengthened standard instead of focusing on why Apple and Sony seem to be aligning with each other.

It would be nice if the major vendors would stop having playground hissy fits over emerging standards. It so deeply hurts us all to have to work through the years of uncertainty that result from this counterproductive game.

Carmi
http://writteninc.blogspot.com

[OddManOut @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

"Blu-ray... HD-DVD.... who cares? Sure, I bet there are solid arguements for one side or the other... but I simply don't care."

While I'm interested in technology/consumer technology (and I enjoy watching corporate entities fight it out) , I kind of agree with the above...
Whichever standard this next generation of digital media goes with will probably last the same amount of time and give us the same OVERALL (as stated, both formats have their strengths and weaknesses) perceptable quality until it itself is replaced when the NEXT generation rolls around...

Case in point...as we sit here debating Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD is Betamax vs. VHS an issue any more ?

Not really...

Besides, I remember when DVD burners first became affordable (~ $300) for the general public, and the pundits said 'Hold off! Wait and see if - or + will be the standard. One will eventually dominate...'. And I think '+' has by in large, but by then all the manufacturers were producing drives that supported both. The issue became entirely application specific or users choice.

Then as now it's the early adopters who will be taking the risks, both in industry and in the consumer arena. If you are content to wait a year or two you will probably pay half the price and get twice as much. Case in point again, just 2 - 3 years into the home DVD burning era 16X Dual layer DVD+/-RW drives cost $50 - $80 bucks, a MUCH better value than $300 for a 2X DVD-R drive 2 - 3 years ago, and still just as functional.

Bah! I think I'll just wait for the dirt cheap next-gen gray market devices from china. In typical fashion they'll probably support BOTH formats (legal?), and then I won't even have to worry about what kind of disc I'm popping in when I want to spend 2 hours of my life being irradiated by a CRT (no...no plasma or LCD in my perceivable future :( )

[tf @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

VC-1 is being added to mpeg-4. Not a problem. Of course, Microsoft still hasn't provided a clean, standardized, and implementable spec for VC-1 to either the SMPTE or MPEGLA yet so Microsoft is hurting itself. Also VC-1 loses some of the features of WMV and all of the DRM. Also, since VC-1 does become a part of mpeg-4, the advantage that WMV had (it was cheap) goes away. If anything, Microsoft is now exposed to past patent claims... Once they actually opened up VC-1 to review, everyone in mpegla began discovering that it's very similar to mpeg-4 and that it uses lots of patents held by many members of mpegla.

[Mitesh Gowani @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

To #9, Well sarcasm just isn't good on the internet now is it.
Anyways, all those who are saying HD-DVD. Blu-Ray who cares? It's just a matter that after about a year or so when one standard or the other becomes, well a standard, it would be highly appreciated for those who stood by it in the first release and would lower the cost of the end-user as he/she wouldn't have to go about once more to buy the latest hardware which everyone supports. It's just a matter of seeing who prevails and which consumer gets the best buy, by having future standards incorporated already making their machines future-proof ( as in the next two months in terms of technology :P)
To #5, I count myself as an avid Apple user, but do not see myself crying about this (first post was sarcastic with dumb humour). It isn't like Apple is competing against Sony in the disc manufaturing wars. Sony gets the royalties so what?? I like Sony products. I think I even have more sony products than Apple. Sony gets some cash to better the competition and Apple gets some future-proof technology which can actually benefit the user.
To Jeff, IMO it isn't really about the space, but its more of a factor of whether I would have to upgrade to another system or no in the future. It's just so end consumers who are not major upgraders like the most of us here, get the best deal and can watch movies in the format they come in, in years to come.

[Admiral @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

So long as I can play CD, CD-R, CD-RW, DVD, DVD+_RW (and all inbetween formats), VCD, SVCD, Blu-ray, HD-DVD and any other format under the sun I am happy

[Ryan Block @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

Jeff,

To the best of my understanding, out of the box neither of the HD-DVD or Blu-ray standards call for DVD backwards compliance. However, both format's devices can be equipped with the proper optics to read older discs, DVD and CD alike. (http://www.engadget.com/entry/0028248602535560/)
My point? HD-DVD doesn't even have a leg up on Blu-ray in that respect.

OddManOut,

Blu-ray and HD-DVD will probably never happen. They are competing standards, not competing standards-forks as is the case with DVD+/-R/W, which are both competing to remain compatible with the most stock DVD readers. Also, BD and HD-DVD require totally different physical hardware (i.e. lasers with different wavelengths) to operate, and it is doubtful we'll get them to whip up a quad laser device any time in the near future.

Best,
Ryan

[Bobeotm @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

Well, both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray drives have the ability (with a few tweaks) to be backwards compatable with DVDs. I personally lean towards Blu-Ray, there is more space, and the technology will have a slightly longer life-span. Instead of going with HD-DVD and 6 years later having to go to a successor battle all over again.

I really want to see Sony win this time, the Betamax was superior to VHS but it was hollywood (and the porn industry) that eventually put a nail in the coffin. However, todays market is much different, electronics companies are now just as poweful as hollywood (just look at the fact the gaming industry has surpassed the music and movies industries). Nowadays, with computers in virtually every home, Hollywood isn't as poweful a force as it was in the 80's. In the 80's, hollywood was the ONLY poweplayer.

In the long run, my bets are with Blu-Ray, simply because Hollywood doesn't have as much clout as it used to appear.

[Shane @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

I think, if I understand correctly, that the backward compatilbility came in terms of an HD-DVD disc having a layer that's readable by a standard DVD player. IN other words, the DISC is backward compatible, not the player (hence the complaints about cutting down the available sotrage space, etc.). Someone correct me if I'm wrong, here.

[Mitch @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

#17 Thats BluRay.
For HD-DVD backward compability you have to flip the disc.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/25/1859221&tid=198&tid=1

[OddManOut @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

Ryan,

True. No argument with your technical statements, I have been following the development of both and was basicaly aware of the physical differences. The comparison with +/- was more towards how a competition of standards plays out.

I guess the only place I would disagree with you is about the potential for a quad-laser device. Not now, not tommorow, but IF both standards come to market I think it will happen eventually, and it will eventually be cheap. Some people probably wouldn't want to wait that long of course, but we'll just have to wait and see.

I suppose what I should have said (I'm trying to make my posts shorter these days, but I'm about to blow that) is that as I see it, there are three main possibilites:

1) Only one standadrd will ever come to market the other (probably HD-DVD) will die on the drawing board. No converged hardware.

2) Both standards will come out -> be supported -> learn to co-exist, which would probably result in converged hardware eventually being common if not standard.

3) Both will come out, and one will kill the other fairly handily. Maybe one or two very early high priced dual format devices will see the light of day, but they will disapear pretty quick in this scenerio, and will certainly not become common or popular.

(4) I guess there's an off chance this fight will take so long that the sun will go nova, or ANOTHER standard will come out and trump them both. Pretty remote though...

But in any of these cases you only have to worry if you've got an insatiable need to upgrade ASAP before the dust settles.

Ultimately (no matter how it's constructed) I think they will "whip up a quad laser device" if there is sufficient demand for it. But ONLY if the struggles moves out of board rooms and drawing rooms and actually spills out to the market place and the living room. Many don't see this happening, I think it might.

But if there is a clear winner at the outset (as some think there is NOW, I'm reserving judgement) your statement is defintely correct and they WILL NOT waste their time/money supporting either format after it's well and truly dead.

Thanks for a lucid, non-volatile, informative response (I was beginning to think such was not possible in a blog site)!

[The Jeremy @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

I predict with Apple joining the Blu-Ray board, Microsoft's VC-1 will be dropped out of all Blu-Ray machines as an option before they even hit the U.S. market. Why would the hardware manufacturers want to pay a license to Microsoft for each machine sold when H.264 is fine enough? SMPTE exposed Microsoft's exaggerated performance claims with WMV so what's the incentive? If VC-1 is left in, that means Sony will have to pay Microsoft a fee for each PS3 sold. That's not going to fly. And Apple will be doing everything in its power to ensure the standard they back wins. The only area they've ever played patti-cake with Microsoft in the recent past was making IE the standard Mac browser when Jobs came back - and that was only until Apple was back on its feet and brought Safari to the market. Microsoft actually though Apple would partner with them for the IM client for iChat, which obviously did not happen. Apple chose Dolby's AAC for their commercial music format instead of Microsoft's WMV. It will be this all over again. None of these hardware manufacturers want Microsoft controlling the shots. The same goes for the mobile phone industry; they'll offer Windows Mobile phones when Microsoft gives them a lump sum of cash (like Motorola did who then proceeded to plow that sum of cash into Linux phone development) to encourage their platform adoption.

[Marc @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

Cool, now all the iDrones know who to back.

[Anon Bob @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

Carmi,
AGAIN: Stop posting -- I mean advertising -- in the comments. Everytime you postvertise I gag on your awful digital existentialist comments. If I wanted a moral for an engadget article I'd read a fable. Thanks Aesop.

[Eric @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

Question.... does Blu-Ray support or contemplate LightScribe? Seems like they might as well build this in from the start. Of course, then HP will want royalties....

[Ignignokt @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

"it is doubtful we'll get them to whip up a quad laser device any time in the near future."

Nonsense. No one can defeat the quad laser.

[Andrew Schrag @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

why does everyone get up in arms? Apple has choosen what it thinks to be the best technology and with the way macworld went it was obvious that choice was with blu ray. Apple and Sony are absolutely in a good relationship but its not some concession or choice just becasue sony backs the standard.

[araT @ Dec 19th 2005 1:04AM]

Two words:

THINK DIFFERENT.