TiVo Desktop 2.1 exclusive sneak peek

We recently stumbled upon a beta copy of TiVo's new Desktop 2.1 software (which you use with TiVoToGo, among other things), and we figured it'd be a mighty fine idea to ask Engadget pal Dave Zatz, the guy behind, TiVo To Go Unleashed, to kick the tires for us. The most frustrating new "feature" is that they're making it more difficult to remove the DRM by converting .tivo video files to other formats (it was a fun few weeks, wasn't it?). Dave covers that, as well as TiVo's new software player, in his initial report:

First off, the software is a beta of 2.1 released mid-March. Most tweaks appear to be under the hood, such as moving closer to fully supporting sync and play back on Portable Media Center (PMC) devices, preparing for a wider release of HME (speculation on my part), and the phasing out of the TiVo Playback Password.

First the good news. TiVo is now bundling a software player to view TiVo-recorded shows on WindowsXP. It offers the familiar green status bar, Tivo functions such as replay, and TiVo sound effects. The software makes it pretty easy to see which codecs and filters are being used and to make changes if needed.

Second a little more good news. It seems they are phasing out the TiVo Playback Password as it is redundant and probably due to the bad news.

The bad news is that apparently TiVo has created some sort of �access control list� preventing certain applications, such as Dr. DivX and TMPGEnc, from accessing .tivo files. Sonic MyDVD still works fine for burning TiVoToGo files to DVD, so I believe that Tivo�s strategy might be to identify programs being used to manipulate video and then block them to prevent conversion and/or removal of the DRM. That said, there are still a few other software players had no trouble opening .tivo files and certain more obscure video transcoding applications (which we shouldn�t name) were ALSO able to open the files, so it�s hard to tell exactly what�s going on here. I�ll keep playing around with TiVo Desktop 2.1 to see what else I can figure out.

[Mongrel @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

On the downside, it outrageously ugly. Reminds me of WMP 8 - ick. Maybe they should talk to theskinsfactory or something before releasing that... otherwise, yay

[Jason Coleman @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

This is nearly on topic: The article mentioned that Sonic's MyDVD still worked for burning TiVoToGo files. Any word if TiVo plans to allow other companies (i.e. Ahead's Nero) to have similar capabilities? I'm not really a fan of the Sonic software and wouldn't buy other than the fact that it works with TiVo files. While I think the DRM could be a little looser with these files (I mean, hey, they were broadcast weren't they?), it hasn't really become a hurdle as of yet. The file format is the issue, and I'd like to see some more mainstream software developers incorporating it.

[TK101 @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

And how about a Mac version, FOR GOD'S SAKE???

Sheesh.

TK101

[ben @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

I've been using SnapStream

no subscription fees, none of that DRM, and I like the ability to set-up my recordings on the net if i'm away from my computer

[otakucode @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Attention TiVo: Drop the DRM. Hush now, I know you think the TV companies will throw a hissy fit, but sometimes you just have to let the baby cry itself to sleep. It is entirely within the Fair Use rights of consumers to be able to record a television program digitally, transcode it to whatever wacky format they come up with, and watch it on whatever device they care to. The TV and movie companies have got everyone wetting their pants thinking if they let consumers do ANYTHING with their shows that they're going to be violating copyright law. Bull. I know you're not in the best of financial straights right now, TiVo, but I love you so I'll be straight. You need to do this. You need to drop the DRM and establish these Fair Use rights in a mutliformat, multidevice DVR world. Your future, and ours, depends on it.

[zachary @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Damn you DirecTv! I would love to have a feature like this...

[bruce m @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

I still think Apple will come in someday and blow everyone's sh&^t out of the water ... combine Apple's human interace experience with the H.263 video codec, and you have the makings of a video iTunes that will run well over today's network infrastructure.

Tivo, having pioneered digital video time shifting, has definitely "lost it" ... it seems "the industry" has disrupted their great, potentiall disruptive technology.

I'll give Tivo another year to figure things out, but I fear that by then they'll be hit by superior competitive products and technologies that will hit them so hard their heads will be spinning.

[mattharvest @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

You can have these features on any tivo or directivo. Just hack it. Its fully documented for all versions except the Series 2.5 directv hardware (the R10 units). Just head over to www.dealdatabase.com and do some reading.

[nick @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Echoing post #3... I want my Mac version. Tivo was supposed to have it out around this time frame.

[havanahjoe @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

You can do all this with DirecTV TiVos, you just don't have a software that will do it all automatically for you. It needs a little more work, but it is worth it.

[havanahjoe @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

You can do all this with DirecTV TiVos, you just don't have a software that will do it all automatically for you. It needs a little more work, but it is worth it.

[John Merryman @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

DRM sucks, but TiVo has good reasons for insisting on it:

1. If they don't have DRM, it'll be hard for them to offer digital-cable-ready equipment, since it would provide a mechanism to access the original pure-digital bitstream. In order to argue that they should be granted an OpenCable license to use CableCard to decrypt digital cable, they'll need to have a 'credible' DRM strategy.

2. It's like Napster versus FTP - just like Napster didn't really do anything new (you could donwload MP3s via FTP), it did make it so easy that people started to notice and enforce the laws (not to mention making new ones). If TiVo didn't have DRM, and enabled easy trading of files, they'd quickly become a lightning rod for regulators.

That said, I hate DRM - and that GUI is awful. Just because Microsoft allows non-square windows doesn't make it a good idea - yuck!

[mike @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

uuuum WMP8?

That's Quicktime..

What.. but they got an 8 yr old drunk and got him to design the interface.. the bosses grandson perhaps?

What an ugly piece of shit... This is worse than anything I've ever seen... my eyes hurt..

[otakucode @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

#12 - You don't get it. It's not illegal to have copies of your favorite shows. There's nothing wrong with it. Nowhere in any lawbook anywhere does it say you can't record a TV show, edit out the commercials, and watch it anywhere you want, any time you want, in any format you want. You can't give it to other people, and you can't broadcast is publicly. That's it.

If the CableCard people tell Tivo they need strong DRM before they can use CableCards, Tivo needs to explain to the CableCard people that they can get stuffed and reverse engineer the cards themselves.

It isn't just like Napster vs FTP. In both cases you're talking about doing something illegal - copying music. In this case we're talking about doing something entirely legal and within our rights, but Tivo is choosing to cripple it to the point of uselessness to prevent us from doing things that are entirely legal because the MPAA member companies will pitch a fit about it. They pitched a fit about it when VCRs came around and the video rental market gave their industry such a boost they're still snorting blow and getting hookers on the interest from that windfall. It's time to force them to make obscene truckloads of cash again, no matter how much they hate it.

Oh, and any kind of "iTunes for Movies" is going to fail. For a long time. The only way it'll do any good at all is if 2 absolutely un-negotiable conditions are met, #1 - they have to be HD. #2 - They can't come out in streaming format any later than the day they hit DVD (ideally they would come out the day they hit theaters, but we all know that's going to take a LONG time to happen). Movie companies are going to fight both points. It would make them scads of cash, but they're completely ignorant on how to make money, we saw that in the 80s Betamax case.

[eliot h @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

hmmm... although the analogy to vcrs is an interesting one, used many times, i'm not sure it works here.

vcrs made tapes a viable alternative to watching tv shows only when they were on. the fear was that commercial revenue would reduce, and no-one would be able to afford to produce shows.

but production companies didn't consider that they could sell the tapes in addition to the initial broadcast sales. it is also possible (i don't have the numbers) that the networks are making less money (in adjusted dollars) than they would have. but they made up for it in owning rights to the programs shown on tape.

now where are we today? tiVo (i have a series 1 and love it) makes it so that people can easily skip commercials. that makes the tv commercial less effective, one presumes. so, eventually it would lead to less commercial revenue. but unlike the vcr, what is there for the networks to sell? it costs nothing for a tivo user to make a copy. it costs nothing except some time to transfer the files to others. as things stand now, there is no way for the tv netowrks and production companies and movie studios to insert themselves into a replacement revenue stream.

that, i believe, is the challenge that needs to be solved before your argument can make sense. yes, dvds and vhs tapes will still be on sale, and there will likely still be shows on the air, even if commercials bring in less money. but if i can get every show without buying a tape or dvd, then that market will have to fall apart. and if i can skip commercials, that market will fall down too. does that mean tv will go away? of course not. they'll just make less money. which is probably fine, in the end, but it is a legitimate fear, especially if your mortgage is $20k a month. i see an e true hollywood story coming...

[otakucode @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

eliot h: You seem to draw no line between legal Fair Use rights of only personal usage and copying and giving the content to others. You should. Because one is illegal.

Besides, I could easily make the argument that copying a VCR tape was MUCH easier than editing video, encoding it into a decent format with the right parameters, and then fighting with a microscopic upstream to send it to a friend at many, many times less than realtime. The POINT of the betamax case was that you cannot outlaw things just because you can forsee a way in which the technology could be used for illegal stuff. You have to realize that there is benefit, and legal benefit.

If we don't fight for this now, I can go into psychic mode and tell you the future. Here it is:
First, the cable companies flood the market with dirt-cheap and/or free DVRs.
Second, Tivo and other DVR companies die or become entirely unable to be relevant with broadcast flags, digital cable standards, etc.
Third, the cable company disables their customers DVRs.
Fourth, the cable company hardsells On-Demand programming as a DVR replacement.
Fifth, the cable company disables fast-forwarding through commercials.
Sixth, the cable company makes ads dynamic - they aren't static, they get updated all the time, so you see a commercial paid to air today even while watching a program that originally aired months ago.
Seventh, no new shows are produced. Companies realize it is more beneficial for their bottom line to transfer old content to the On-Demand system with dynamic commercials than to pay the expense of developing new content.

[Joe Cotellese @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Oh my god, here is yet another application that absolutely must be skinned. Does anyone write applications that conform to the Windows style guide anymore? Maybe you can unskin the thing ala WMP.

[Mark @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

At some point it will just be easier to setup an old Athlon machine and a TV card, and install Myth TV. Time to buy a new computer case.

[KirbyMeister @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

It's just SO EASY to get past this - write a program that changes it's name every time it tries to access the tivo decoder and BOOM - TiVo will have to go to from a blacklist to a whitelist. At that point, masquerade as established programs until TiVo gives up.

Either that, or take time to learn Linux, install MythTV, and have a REAL TiVo.