Sony's NW-HD5 Network Walkman vs. the iPod

C'mon, you know you were dying to see a pic of Sony's new NW-HD5 Network Walkman side-by-side with the iPod…

[Thanks, semi]

[Byungmin @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Having a ipod in japanese some how makes it sexier.

>>

[The Jeremy @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

The only real advantage I see about the Walkman is the color screen. Guess its time Apple makes the 20GB model an official "iPod photo", or just drop the "photo" moniker and make all iPods with color screens (with the exception of the Shuffle, of course)...

[narco @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

I think I'm just so used to seeing my iPod everyday, that I immediately think this Sony player looks awesome. It kind of reminds me of an old Intellevision for some reason.

Fishes,
narco.

[edd:e @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

The HD5 is rather cute.
And very cool looking - in a retro, gameboy-ish sort of way. It would look even more killer if the 4 'outside' buttons were moved to the side of the device, leaving just the d-pad in the center (possibly replace the volume buttons with a jogdial). And what's up with the color screen? I thought it was monochrome. Very nice.

[mac mini me @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

This photo just makes me wonder yet again, why does everyone think the ipod looks so cool, or as some would say, sexy?? Next to this new sony, it looks old, clunky, and ugly, and the new sony is not the most stylish player out there! And I keep hearing people call the buttons on the sony ugly, but how about that apple click wheel? I have always found it to be hideous in appearance. If you want to sweat the ipod because of its great interface, sound, and easy to use click wheel, that is totally understandable, but to call the ipod stylish just never made any sense to me.

[Shmee150 @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Sony = Smaller, Lighter, 40hr battery, 30gb version coming, Sony brand name, etc....

But it uses bl**dy sonicstage :(

Please Sony... sort it out!

ShMeE

[Brian Anderson @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Form factor? Who cares as long as the interface is fast and efficient.

[Arpan @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Is that really a color screen or is that purple just the backlighting?

[Arpan @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Is that really a color screen or is that purple just the backlighting?

[Chin @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

damn right! i never thought much of the hd5 design until i saw this pic! wow dayamn it makes the ipod look like some cheap plastic thing you'd find in the supermarket! ooh ooh it makes the ipod look like a toy! damn... way to go sony... just hope you can trump the ipod in terms of price as well, then you've got it for sure! and of course, please PLEASE sort out your crappy software

[narco @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

It could be just a reverse screen. I have a watch (no, I didn't replace it with my cellphone) from Philippe Stark, and it has a "negative display" which makes it look awesome. In fact, I paid $25 extra just to HAVE the negative screen.

Fishes,
narco.

[Jason K @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

People still wear Digital Watches...on purpose?

...and people who wear digital watches are concerned with looking awesome?

There is all kinds of wrong with the above.

[The Jeremy @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

To poster #5...the controls on the non-iPods make them unsexy. Say what you will, the scroll wheel on the iPods is what separates it from the multitude of competitors.

[Eric @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

This posting reminds me of a series of theories/questions that I've been having for quite a while.
How long will the popularity of the IPod last? and will Apple's stronghold on the personal audio market crumble when a) Everyboy has and IPod and it's no longer fashionable and b) another company produces a product that sets itself from the mass of IPod carrying zombies.
And Lastly, Apple has dedicated much of its resources to the IPod. Could a new hot product be trouble for the Apple corporation?
I have an Ipod and love it. I know that it's more than just the hardware. Itunes makes it very easy to get what you need to get done. But I have to wonder how much time Apple has as the portable audio company. Maybe this Sony product is the nail in the coffin.

[El Nino @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

What is up with the buttons? Horrible!

[Battered @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

There are two things that could make be reconsider my old 15GB iPod: The incredible battery-life, which is more than double that of the *current* iPods, and the fact that you can replace the battery.

And, ok, it's smaller than the iPod, lighter, and it looks rather good.

So...why won't I order one? Because Sony is stoopid, and won't offer their products for the Mac-crowd - which seems rather silly and, yeah, stoopid, considering the makers of the iPod are Mac-people.

Please, Sony - get your heads of out of your, eh, fridge.

[Andy @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

You people are nuts. This audio player is uglier than the H10. And that's pretty bad.
Those buttons look like a winning formula for a clunky interface.

[Byungmin @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

I could really care less what the mp3 player's buttons/scroll wheels are; I need a remote that can do everything the player can.

Thus I use an iaudio m3, very underrated.

[Jamie @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

What's funny here is that it looks like Sony took a lot of the design cues for this new device from the iPod (white, rounded corners, aluminum accents). They are more related design-wise than most of you think. As for the interface, you can't forget that Apple also has iTunes which is a very good software program. I'd be curious to see what gets bundled with this Sony device.

[douglas @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

i really really like this new sony player...

almost...

the question becomes... is it the wheel that makes the ipod so great? if it is, and i think that it is for the record, then the ipod will stay ahead for a long time...

it's not easy reinventing the wheel right? how many car companies do you see replacing each tire with eight square blocks? Maybe not the best analogy, but you get the point.

[Tony @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

The 30GB iPod photo is less expensive, so I wonder about the price point. I suppose if you are anti-Apple, or you feel your desire to use something other than iTunes is worth more than $25, wouldn't the iPod be a better deal?

It does look nice, though.

[PeejHey @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

I think those checkerboard buttons on the Sony look awful. It is smaller (tho' I'm thinking that might make it harder to read...guess I need glasses) and I think it looks a bit thicker than an iPod so that's not much of a plus.

Of course it won't work with Macs so I can't tell what the user experience is. To me it's all moot.

To Eric who posted that this Sony is the nail in iPod's coffin. What are you talking about? iPods aren't in any financial difficulty and have beaten every MP3 player that came around trying to knock it off the top. It's still number one so to claim the product is in the coffin and this Sony is the nail its coffin is...delusional at best.

[nathan @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

The checkerboard buttons look great.

iPods, like all of Apple's white stuff, look like something designed for small children, i.e., plastic, garish, cheap.

[Monmin @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

People are criticizing the buttons but we have yet to see how they operate with the firmware on board.

I imagine that if you press the down button once it will select the next item in the list. Hold the down button down and it simply scrolls through the list at a more rapid rate. This could be a fantastic interface and make moving your finger around in circles on the click wheel seem laborious.

Another thing to note is that Sony is selling this for more than the Ipod. Steve J. is probably pissed about this. No longer is Apple the premium priced player. To us consumers thats a good thing. But to Steve thats probably not such a good thing (ipod is supposed to be the best and command a premium price - it's an image thing).

[Jeff @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

"I'd be curious to see what gets bundled with this Sony device."

It's gonna be SonicStage (which I keep wanting to call Sony Connect - that's their music store).

To answer a couple others, people think the iPod looks good because the iPod looks good. There's no other reason. It has that zen simplicity that is very hard to design in (it's easy to make a device look simple, but not so easy to make it look simple and also make it fully functional and intuitive). The 3G iPods do look better than the 4G iPods, though; I will grant that. The grey-ness of the 4G clickwheel kinda spoils things a little bit.

But I think this Sony player looks good. I wouldn't not buy it because it's ugly - it isn't. And I like its size and battery life. What I do not like is a button-style interface - this is just not workable in a 20GB mp3 player. There is a reason why people like Apple's circular interface and it is for fully functional reasons - it just makes it incredibly easy to scroll through collections, and scroll quickly and accurately. A button just will not work, and that's why virtually no manufacturers use them on mp3 players anymore. (iRiver, Dell, Creative, they all have their own interfaces but none of them use straight buttons.)

"it's not easy reinventing the wheel right?"

Indeed.

[Matthew Cooke @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

To #13- Sony probably doesn't care that it is not compatible with macs, because so few people actually own them. The majority of ipod owners don't even own a mac, so what's the big deal?

[Peabo @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Eric (post number 12):

Why does Apple have to go from where they are now to being in "trouble" or running out of "time" in the market altogether? The iPod's life cycle would already be up if it were being driven by it being merely fashionable. I'm sure a lot of people bought iPods because other people were, but they wouldn't have held on to them for very long if they weren't (as you pointed out yourself) so bloody usable. There's plenty of room for other devices. Apple doesn't have to be blown completely out of the water if some competition comes to town. After all, a lot of people held on dearly to their Macintosh computers for a period of time when there were very few reasons to do so. I don't know, it's just funny to see someone who claims to own and like their iPod to be so ready to speculate Apple right out of the market, all for doing nothing more than creating a wildly likeable and usable product.

[SteveJ @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

To me the Sony looks klunky. Exposed screws, sharp edges, lines, klunky buttons, etc. I do like the size and replaceable battery, though. Also, I'm not really of the mind that the iPod looks great. I think it just looks OK. It's the functionality that is fantastic. Now, the iPod mini *does* look fantastic. It's beautiful, is pretty much the ideal size, and has all the functionality of its big brother, just not the disk space (nor color screen of the photo). I'm anxious for Hitachi to get those 20 GB microdrives out the door - a 20 GB iPod mini would be near perfect, and 30 GB (perfect) would have to be right around the corner... Ahhh... to dream....

[bruce m @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

I'd say the construction of the Sony device looks "cheap" ... notice the screws at the bottom of the case, and the squared-off top. The iPod features a "seamless" design, you'll never find an exposed screw. Some may think the Sony device looks nice, but my take on it is "too little, too late" -- it's blatently copying it's stying cues from Apple, it grudgingly supports MP3 (still with no compatibility or support for iTunes -- blame that on Apple if you will, but if Sony wanted they could work a deal with Apple for compatibility) and it still plays ATRAC files with better battery life -- who the hell wants ATRAC files anyways, people who are just switching over from MiniDisc players?

Sorry Sony -- much too little, much too late, much to much of a ripoff -- this device proves how far you've fallen since you ruled the earth with the tape-based Walkmans. Even calling this a "Walkman" seems kind of embarrasing, it makes me think of gym class in seventh grade listening to the Go-Go's on cassette tape.

[Brandon @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Uh...what styling cues is it stealing from the iPod?

- It has a verticle orientation (though it can be shifted to horizontal)
- It has some aluminium
- It has rounded corners

I had TV remotes that fit that description before iPod. I had a TOASTER that had those design elements before iPod. I still have a stereo that does. Once had a Walkman that fit the bill. A Gameboy too, aside from the metal. Wait, this Blackberry seems to fit that list. Holy crap...even this STAPLER!

Come off it.

[edd:e @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Exposed screws? Come on.
Sony MD players have the same look. As does my Sharp MD player and Canon d-elph digicam. If anything, exposed screws mean you can attempt to fix the device if anything ever goes wrong.
It's a non-factor.

I still think this player looks really nice - but the interface, both on the device and software-wise, have the potential to be rather crappy.

I wonder if it comes with a (LCD) remote.

[mac mini me @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

To #28:

Hasn't this whole "they are just ripping off apple's style" argument been put to rest in another post already??

excerpt from previous post by Jesse:
"All successful MP3 players of this nature will inevitably settle into a similar form factor to the iPod. It's NOT because they're "ripping off" the iPod - it's because it is a tried and true, successful, and comfortable design. It's the most logical way to arrange the controls and display on a device of that size. Apple just happened to be the company that capitalized on this realization (note that I didn't say 'discovered'; as was pointed out above in regard to the Archos and Rio players having designed the first players of this style)."

That being said, it has the follow turn display, which actually makes it different from the ipod style at the same time, so give the whole ipod ripoff bs a rest already. The only company you can accuse other companies of ripping off at all is the inventor of the design, which is NOT apple, so why don't you accuse apple of ripping archos and/or rio? Heck, you could even call the ipod and every other mp3 player out there a ripoff of sony's original walkman if you really want to get down to it.

[egg @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Any mp3 player with a screen is an obvious rip-off of the iPod. Also, any mp3 player without a screen is an obvious rip-oof of the iPod Shuffle. Funny that Apple is the only company that can innovate.

[madmaxmedia @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

If there's one thing this thread teaches us, it's that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think iPod is beautifully designed, and like the simple look with integrated wheel and buttons. It's also by far the best UI IMO.

Using buttons to navigate a 20GB player may sound fine in principle (just hold to scroll faster), but the little delay will drive you nuts, as will overshooting and having to possibly scroll back in the opposite direction. We will see. That's why the majority of players have some sort of scrolling type input (wheel, dial, touch bar, etc.)

I also wonder if the buttons physically click, or are touch buttons like the Creative players and G3 iPod. I never liked the G3 iPod, because it was too easy to accidentally press the buttons and interrupt the current song.

Otherwise the player looks pretty nice, finally a player from Sony that looks pretty good and doesn't have some sort of crippling negative that kills it potential. OTOH, not being to use the iTunes store or the WMA stores is a big negative IMO. Who the heck uses Sony Connect?

[Doogs @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

A few theories on Apple's dominance in this market:

1 - The iPod's user interface is intuitive. Even my parents figured it out without having to read a manual, call tech support, etc. Approachability is a big asset in consumer tech.

2 - The iTunes Music Store. Are there other options? Yes. But right now, iTMS is the dominant one. If you are going to buy music online, logic would dictate that you buy from a storefront that will likely still be around in three years.

3 - Word of mouth. Like the Mini, the iPod does sell because it is cute and trendy. BUT...these people who "just want an iPod" use it and fall in love with it. My wife is a perfect example. Now, she evangelizes the thing to everyone. Word of mouth and opinions of friends and family are HUGE in the purchase decision.

4 - Lock-in. Apple is locking in millions of consumers with iTMS. Sure there are hacks and ways to convert AAC files to MP3, but for the majority of iPod owners, when their device fails, they will buy another iPod so they can continue to access their music library.

5 - Licensing. Someday, the iPod has to level off. Prices have to fall, competition has to mount, etc. When that day comes, all Apple has to do to maintain dominance is license support for the iTunes Music Store to other makers.

[madmaxmedia @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

If there's one thing this thread teaches us, it's that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think iPod is beautifully designed, and like the simple look with integrated wheel and buttons. It's also by far the best UI IMO.

Using buttons to navigate a 20GB player may sound fine in principle (just hold to scroll faster), but the little delay will drive you nuts, as will overshooting and having to possibly scroll back in the opposite direction. We will see. That's why the majority of players have some sort of scrolling type input (wheel, dial, touch bar, etc.)

I also wonder if the buttons physically click, or are touch buttons like the Creative players and G3 iPod. I never liked the G3 iPod, because it was too easy to accidentally press the buttons and interrupt the current song.

Otherwise the player looks pretty nice, finally a player from Sony that looks pretty good and doesn't have some sort of crippling negative that kills it potential. OTOH, not being to use the iTunes store or the WMA stores is a big negative IMO. Who the heck uses Sony Connect?

[Tigere @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

I question what the big deal is about the iPod. Personally, I'm one to go for the best of breed (Cowon, iRiver maybe) rather than best hyped/marketed (iPod). I suppose at the end of the day its all about what you want in an audio player and there are some minor differences along product lines. Although, if all players were using iTunes, I reckon people out there would still be pro iPod. Is it allegiance to Apple? I sometimes think thats what it is...people falling in love with what Apple represents as a whole. Hence even though, for instance, HP sells a rebranded iPod, people will still b*tch about HP's product just because its not Apple branded even though its exactly the same.

[Sony Remote @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

31. The Sony RM-MC40ELK remote works with the NW-HD1 and I heard it works with the NW-HD3. Click on the name-link-thing to see a product disciption from Audiocubes.com. I'll bet that it will work with the NW-HD5. Sony makes other MD remotes that will probably work as well.

[steve @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Sony really needs to figure out UI design - perhaps they have here, but their track record over the past decade is awful.

Increasingly any competitor to the iPod needs to play cleartext aac. iPod users rips CDs in this format by default - we did a study of "what's on my iPod" on about 30 machines and found a bit of iTunes and roughly a 50-50 split between mp3 and cleartext aac. Few iPod owners will switch to a non-iPod or add another unit that doesn't have this.

Given the price and the software limitations, this one isn't close to being an iPod killer.

[tf @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

"Another thing to note is that Sony is selling this for more than the Ipod. Steve J. is probably pissed about this. No longer is Apple the premium priced player. To us consumers thats a good thing. But to Steve thats probably not such a good thing (ipod is supposed to be the best and command a premium price - it's an image thing)."

This is simply absurd! Some people have very delusional ideas about Apple and Jobs. The fact is: the iPod has been undercutting or equally priced to its competition for a while now. Apple/Jobs do not have anything against not being the most expensive product. Where Apple/Jobs may have a fixation in pricing is that they/he like to preserve margins between 25-30%. That's it.

[tf @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

"All successful MP3 players of this nature will inevitably settle into a similar form factor to the iPod. It's NOT because they're "ripping off" the iPod - it's because it is a tried and true, successful, and comfortable design. It's the most logical way to arrange the controls and display on a device of that size. Apple just happened to be the company that capitalized on this realization (note that I didn't say 'discovered'; as was pointed out above in regard to the Archos and Rio players having designed the first players of this style)."

Where's the part about being white and/or silver or having multiple colors?

[Roxy Girl @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

The sony has a very BIGGGG advantage over the Ipod, it is that it's a Sony (tm)

Ja Ja Ja iPod count your days, Sony is going to eat Appiole's Arse

[Tim @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

I love this. You guys want to start bitch slapping each other while you're at it? I'll just wait for someone to rip on my comment now.

[tf @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

"The sony has a very BIGGGG advantage over the Ipod, it is that it's a Sony (tm)

Ja Ja Ja iPod count your days, Sony is going to eat Appiole's Arse"

And here I was thinking THAT was a huge disadvantage.

Would you care to explain, Roxy Girl, ja ja ja ?

[QuickLikeMe @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

One of the items on the sony player says "initial search" in japanese, I wonder what that's about?

[Allan @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

The buttons are a further development from the G-sense implemented in the Vaio Pocket. The Vaio Pocket is the best DAP out there now IMHO (color screen, album art, great GUI, G-sense), and at $399 for 40GB, quite a good deal, too.

If I didn't have my Vaio Pocket, I'd consider this. I like it better than the NW-HD3, but the NW-HD3 is sexier.

[alex @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

In responce to 22. The sony nw-hd5 is .5 mm thicker then the ipod, so not by much

104 x 61 x 14-ipod

59.9 x 89.3 x 14.5mm-nw-hd5

[izo @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Sony NW-HD5 is a worldwide launch

Sony_nw_hd5 Sony has unveiled the latest in its seemingly never-ending list of iPod killers. Only this time it appears to be serious. The NW-HD5, which will launch in May in the UK, US, Europe and the Far East is a 20 Gigabyte hard disk player that is smaller and lighter than its equivalent iPod (it weighs just 125g) and has far superior battery life offering thirty hours of MP3 playback, (40 if the owner uses Sony�s proprietary ATRAC3Plus format at 48kbps), compared to its equivalent iPod�s 12 hours.

The battery is apparently replaceable too with Sony promising that spares can be bough from High street stores. Another innovation is its new �Follow Turn Display,� which orients the interface screen horizontally or vertically depending on which way the NW-HD5 is held. The player is available in black, silver, and red goes on sale in May for �200 (�10 less than its equivalent iPod). A 30 Gigabyte version in silver follows the month after. Click over for the press release.

Sony launches New Network WALKMAN with Hard Disk Ultra compact size, innovative interface and massive 40 hours battery life.

Sony�s new 20GB hard disk digital music player, the Network WALKMAN NW-HD5, delivers a staggering 40 hours of playback on one battery charge and carries up to 13,000 tracks . The new player also features the most innovative interface yet seen on a portable music device and comes in stylish colours of black, silver, and red. A seven-line large LED window with bright backlight combined with the novel concept of the �follow turn� feature of the display, deliver real intuitive operation. The display graphics shift and change position depending on how users hold the Network WALKMAN to provide smooth visibility. This �follow turn� feature uses G-Sensor technology to automatically detect the horizontal or vertical position of the device and consequently changes the position of the display graphics as well as that of the function buttons.

Sony�s renowned Stamina battery life provides almost two days of continuous playback. The battery is replaceable and easily accessible from high street stores and can be replaced by users without the need for a visit to a service centre. All this power comes in a tiny package: weighing in at just 125g, the aluminium encased Network Walkman fits neatly in the palm of your hand. �We�re raising the stakes again in the digital music player market,� said Gregory Kukolj, General Manager for Personal Audio Europe. �The stunning new �follow turn� feature, 40 hours battery life, incredibly compact design, and to top it off, very affordable pricing, make the new Network WALKMAN an irresistible proposition for users who seek a quality digital music player.�

The NW-HD5 Network WALKMAN also comes in a limited edition version of 30GB, which can hold up to 20,000 tracks and will be available in silver, with black buttons. Quality headphones, AC adapter and a USB cable are included in the NW-HD5. The bundled SonicStage 3.1 music management software converts and manages music from CDs in both ATRAC3plus and MP3, and provides seamless access to the �CONNECT� Online Music Store�s catalogue of more than 600,000 tracks and albums. The NW-HD5 will be available in May 2005.

[Allon @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Sony UK has also published some info:
http://www.sony.co.uk/PageView.do?site=odw_en_GB&page=MagazineWithArticleFirstSection&article=1109586889283�ion=en_GB_Magazine_Entertainment

[Jeff @ Dec 19th 2005 12:12AM]

Only plays ATRAC and MP3. Sigh. What a waste, Sony. And still forcing SonicStage on people? Double sigh.

I love the quality of Sony's players over all others, but I won't accept them forcing their formats and software on me. Nor will I accept that from Apple.

Still waiting for the "right" DAP. Who will step up to the challenge?

Mass storage / works with WMP
Multi-Codec (MP3, AAC, WMA, OGG, etc.)
Long battery life
Small
Excellent sound quality (of course)