Philips' RC9800i super remote overlord
By Ryan Block 
posted April 12th 2005 12:49PM
posted April 12th 2005 12:49PM
We all knew it was only a matter of time before decked out handhelds disguised as
high-end remotes took over
(Harmony and
Nevo, anyone?), and you know you're not
using the mother of all universal remotes when it's Philips' new RC9800i, a device with a 3.5-inch 65k color QVGA TFT
touchscreen interface, 600 pre-programmed IR codes and IR "learning" capabilities, 802.11b/g WiFi (for UPnP device
control and even streaming audio through the device), integrated li-polymer battery, speaker, USB connector, dock, 32MB
of RAM, and 32MB flash memory. Funny, this is like the freaking Hummer of remote controls, and all we want to do is
hack it to make world's most expensive (try $600 US on for size, friend)
TV-B-Gone.
[Via TechDigest]
It looks very similar to the device in the Sonos ad on the right.
Is there any software out there to turn a PDA into the same type of device?
But what we all want to know is this: Does it work with VCRplus?
Ok, so seriously, what is like, the most cost-effective remote that's similar to this but not 600 freakin' dollars? I have this huge problem right now where I have literally like 15 different remotes and even though one of them's a "universal" "learning" remote, it won't work at all with about half the devices I have because they didn't exist when it was manufactured.
What I need is a configurable touch-screen remote with the ability to *fully* learn and store IR codes and functions from any future remote or device I could throw at it. And I need it to support a crap-load of devices and functions at once (it needs a decent amount of memory, I guess). I don't want to download stuff off the internet because that assumes the company will still be in business and/or still supporting this remote 5 or 10 years down the line. I want to point my new remote at it and have it learn everything. (If I have to build a new interface on the touch-screen, that's fine - I just need it to be able to learn the IR functions.)
Does such a thing exist for less than $200?
I have a touchscreen remote and i'd never use it for channel surfing. It's good to go deep into the more custom settings of my reciever, but to have to tap tap tap all the time to change channels beomes a hassle and it slows down your surfing. Having to look back and forth at where the buttons are and making sure you're tapping the right spot grew old very quick. So I stick to the comcast remote for tv/volume and whatnot and i use the touchscreen to switch between devices and do random tasks in the reciever. I'm not saying the touchscreens aren't cool, the cool factor is pretty high in fact, they just need some dedicated buttons for the common stuff. A number pad and some up/down buttons to compliment the touch and we'd be golden.
Jeff, check out Universal Remote, inc.
MX-500, MX-800, and URC-200 might be appropriate.
#5,
The problem is with the interface of touchscreen applications. Most all of them are designed to "look good" (with print graphic layouts, because the designers don't actually use them) but what they need are to "feel good". If the up and down buttons were placed in the upper and lower right corners (with no margins) then using it in the dark would be easy. And then put the volume buttons on the in the left corners...
Hmmm... maybe I just thought of a new company...
oh wait jeff... you said touch-screen. Those are some pretty steep demands you have for a sub-$200 device.
Seriously, read what josh just said (he's right... touchscreens are cool to see, but suck as actual remote controls... who wants to have to LOOK at the damn thing just to change channels?) and consider those URC's. They also have a URC-300 ($300 i think) that has a ton of "hard" buttons AND a decent sized fully customizable touch screen.
I love my MX-800 and wouldn't bother with a touchscreen... at least not 'til I can drop $15k on a decent crestron control system.
Dammit dammit dammit.. I JUST (2 months ago) got a TSU-7000 for $500... and now they come out with something so much better for just a little bit more. Damn you, technology!
#5
Sony has a line of remotes that come with high marks (Sony RM-AV3100, RM-AV2500, etc).
I don't know how "future proof" they are, but at around 200 dollars, not a bad buy.
@Jeff - Pacific NeoTek OmniRemote + PalmOS device is about the most cost-effective you'll find. I've got the Springboard module version in my Visor Deluxe, and I haven't found anything it won't control yet. Of course, you need to a) actually have the device's original remote, since there aren't any presets, and b) look down at the %^#$^ing screen all the time, which is why I don't use it much these days. Probably run you about $200 total for a refurbed Palm unit and the OmniRemote. But honestly, keep saving your money until you can get something with hardware buttons; the people who said that this slows down remote use too far are 100% correct.
"They also have a URC-300 ($300 i think) that has a ton of "hard" buttons AND a decent sized fully customizable touch screen."
I should have been a bit clearer - I didn't mean I want something with *only* a touch screen. I'd like hard buttons for common things like volume and power controls. The URC-300 looks like it might work but I need to read more about it. It looks like it might be the reverse of what I want, though - I'm looking for something more touch-screen centric, with hard buttons for only the common functions.
The reason why I specifically *want* a touch screen is for future proof-ness. I know with some of the higher-end Philips Prontos (do they still make those?) you can literally build a brand new device with a completely customized interface - you can make your own button layout. Back when I last bought a remote, nobody knew we'd have such a thing as HTPC's now so my remote has no satisfactory way to integrate all the possible functions of one.
Maybe I am asking too much, but it sure seems like my wife's $150 Sony Clie should be able to do this given the right software (and a more powerful IR connector), so why would it cost so much in an actually less versatile, lower-spec'd device like a dedicated remote control?
Or *is* there some decent software that'll do this on a Palm or Pocket PC handheld? (But then I'd be lacking the hard buttons, which I do still want...)
That software does exist for palm... Someone mentioend OmniRemote... I believe that's the one. As I recall, it's a pretty good program as far as customizing and learning, but you're severely limited by the weak IR of most palm and PPC devices. Note the guy above who said he's got this setup and doesn't use it.
The URC-300 can do everything you describe (fully customizable touch screen display). Its only real limitation is that its touch screen isn't that big.
Think about it though... how many new devices have all THAT many totally new functions? Mostly with your HTPC a decent set of cursor controls and transport controls (play, stop, etc) is what you need. Want a few other things, slap them on the touch screen part.
Also, I assume everyone knows about http://www.remotecentral.com but maybe that's a bad assumption.
Check out LOGITECHS latest color touch screen remote. I think it is going for $150 (Or maybe it was $250?) .. They are definitely the ones to beat right now. Bringing the price down so people can actually afford these.
Harmony 880
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/detailsharmony/CA/EN,CRID=2084,CONTENTID=9933
Harmony, Harmony, Harmony. No other choice.
The task-based approach to operation ("Watch TV", "Watch DVD", etc.) and the LCD with buttons beside make it just about the perfect remote.
No macro programming, just configure it with the wizard on the website, synch with the USB cable and you're off to the races.
I have never had a device of any kind that I was as happy with as I am with this.
Ok, see now, this at least *looks* like it's hitting the mark: http://www.remotecentral.com/src3810/index.html
But I've gotta read that review carefully when I get home, because it may be a sheep in wolf's clothing.
Someone mentioned the Logitech Harmony - the problem with those is, as I understand it, you have to use the internet to download new devices. That rules them out for me - I don't want to have to rely on Logitech (or anybody else, for that matter) to come up with a new device profile for me.
Just to answer this:
"Think about it though... how many new devices have all THAT many totally new functions? Mostly with your HTPC a decent set of cursor controls and transport controls (play, stop, etc) is what you need."
It's not so much the new functions, it's the integrating all the functions together. For example, say I want to capture a VHS tape to my PC, both of which are routed through my receiver and outputting to my TV. You explain to me how I'm going to control that with *any* out-of-the-box universal remote with any sort of integration. What I really need is a way to sort of combine a bunch of interfaces into one, some of which may not yet exist, on a remote that's smart enough to know which device to operate when I press a particular button.
I know remotes like this exist. Most remotes can even do some basic integration, locking your volume to a single device no matter what you have selected, for example. I guess I'm just looking for something that's basically infinitely customizable, but for less than $600. Maybe that's just the price I have to pay, but it still seems pretty stupid if nobody has yet invented a Palm-based remote *with* hard keys and a powerful IR emitter that just runs that Omniremote software or whatever. My wife's year-old black and white Clie is far more powerful with far more memory than any of these remotes (mine is too for that matter, though mine's older) - how hard would it be to slap on a few hard buttons, pre-install a remote app and sell it for $150?
I'm definitely gonna devour this RemoteCentral web site when I get home tonight, though. Thanks for posting that.
I've had both the pronto and the pronto neo, two theatre masters and the first edition of the sony "wide-boy" touch screen, and here's my two cents.
1.)I agree with everyon that touch-screen suck, even if the channel and volume buttons are hard buttons, the touch screen buttons are basically useless unless you want to look like your grandma and stare at the remote for ten minutes before you push each one. In the age of tivo I barely even use my channel buttons, so that takes anything that relys on a touch screen out of contention.
2.) you will spend about as much time programing your all touchscreen remote as you will actually using it. I consider myself pretty technically savy and I spent two weeks trying to set mine up and there are devices that I never found codes for.
I 100% throw my weight behind the harmony. It is the single nicest piece of home electronics I have every bought. As I said before, my pronto took weeks to set up. Setup on the harmony takes 10-20 minutes for nearly flawless operation. My college roommates were scared of the pronto. My techno-phobe wife can use the harmony with ease. The reality is that it just works perfectly.
I don't understand your point about being locked in. With another universal, you'll have to "teach" each command to the remote, and if you wanted to do that with the harmony, you could. But the beauty is that you don't have to do that. You can just go to their website. With the pronto I spent days pouring through remote central and other sites looking for hex codes for different devices, and never found some of them. With Harmony, if you can't find your device in their constantly growing database, then they wil find it for you (or at least they used to before logitech bought them).
But the real feature that makes it rise above the rest is the smart state technology. With other remotes, when you create a macro to watch tv, it turns on the receiver, the tv and puts everything in the right input. And if you want to watch a DVD next, your macro that was designed to turn on the dvd player, reciever and set everything to the right input will probably just turn the tv off (the power button on most tvs turns the tv on and off). The harmony knows the TV is already on and can skip that step.
I'm tired of typing, but seriously I have tried them all and the harmony blows them away hands down. As to why the high-end remote market is so screwed up right now, the reason is that high end remote markets are used to selling to the ultra-rich and used to getting a pretty high profit margin, but now that home theatre is in the hands of the masses, they want to sell to the low end, but still make sure they're giving something extra to the people willing to pay 15k for a control system.
Let's be clear here: there is NOTHING the harmony can do (during use) that the MX-800 and URC-300 can't (I don't know about the cheaper Home Theater Masters).
Jeff, your scenario about routing the VCR to the computer and telling the VCR to play and computer to record is a simple macro.
I keep my MX-800 programmed in a "task mode" instead of a device mode. That is, when I want to watch TV, I go to the remote's main screen and hit "TV". This turns on everything (using appropriate discrete ON codes, not power on/off codes), routes all the signals appropriately, sets the receiver to my favorite default volume level AND (best of all) leaves the remote in a state where CH+/- talks to the cable box, power talks to the TV, volume talks to the receiver, etc...
Now, this is a bitch to design, program, and debug. The harmony can do at least most of this (probably all of this, but I don't know), and it is apparently MUCH easier to program. So determine your level of savvy and decide.
Note that all of the programming software for the MX-800 and URC-300 is available for free on universal remote's website, so you can download it and see exactly what it's capable of.
The harmony is, as i understand it, an excellent product, but it fails miserably your requirement of "I don't want to download stuff off the internet because that assumes the company will still be in business and/or still supporting this remote 5 or 10 years down the line." As I understand it, you can't even program the thing without internet access and their web page... THAT is pretty stupid, I think.
URC maintains a downloadable (and frequently updated) database of preprogrammed codes, but once you've downloaded their programming software just once, you can program the remote offline, learning any new codes that aren't in your database.
Harmony... VERY powerful, easy to program, not *quite* as flexible and offline-UNfriendly.
URC's... VERY VERY powerful, VERY difficult to program, extremely flexible, and offline-happy.
Note that the MX-800 isn't even sold at retail. It comes in three-packs with one manual per three-pack. It's designed to be programmed by installation professionals and handed to the consumer ready-to-go for their personal needs. You CAN find them available as singles though. The URC-300 is sold at retail.
This thing looks the sonos remote
http://www.sonos.com/products/controller/?tref=prod2
Anyone have a photo of these two side by side?
Used many "universial learner" remotes before - Sony, Pronto, Marantz etc. etc. ... and only one is perfect - Harmony Remote.
And I will definitely buy the new 880 later in next month or two.
Used many "universial learner" remotes before - Sony, Pronto, Marantz etc. etc. ... and only one is perfect - Harmony Remote.
And I will definitely buy the new 880 later in next month or two.
If you're looking for a good remote control interface for your clie with an IR booster, check out www.novii.tv. I believe they have an IR booster and you can customize your interface--and it's a LOT less than $200.
Good but could be so much better
Overall, I like the Philips RC9800i it has a nice design and initial product design.
Area of improvements:
1.Infra Read or wireless computer control, I have lot’s of photo and video files stored in the computers and I have my computer connected to my TV, and in order to control the TV playback I need to buy another an IR or wireless control device (Logitech) and then teach the RC9800i all the codes. My Point is if you already have access to the computer and list of files in the remote then when selecting a file you should have an option to play it at the source computer by it being lunched from the media manager into default player.
Currently you can only use the remote to browse photos and videos but not to play them (which makes it useless). I think that the remote should serve as a kind of preview device you browse the picture on the remote and then hit play and bum the picture is on the TV screen, same thing with the movies.
In my opinion this is the biggest drawback of the product, and it would be so easy to implement.
2.Closer integration with PVR and guide. The remote provides a guide but the only thing you can do with it is to press watch, the remote should have a better integration to record future shows by passing the show name to pvr (tivo) and have it manage the scheduling, season pass, etc.
3.Customization of the remote by computer (as in pronto)
4.Make Room selection easier right now you have to go back to the start screen and then select another room, you should be able to click the room and dropdown should appear prompting you to select a room