Xbox 360 = Xbox 1.5? Kutaragi trashtalkin'!
posted May 25th 2005 9:57AM
Meeeeeeow, Ken — it's a game
console catfight, and in the near corner we've got Sony CEO Ken Kutaragi serious dissin' on the
Xbox 360, which is "more like an Xbox
1.5" because it seems like an extension of the original console instead of something radically new. He also lays in on
the use of multiple general purpose CPUs that will "only benefit general applications" as opposed to beefing up
entertainment functions. So guess what the PS3 is all
sorts of about? That's right — entertainment, entertainment, entertainment. Those Media Centre PCs, says Ken? Nice
distractions that emulate home electronics. But the PS3, man, the PS3 — created from the ground up for home
entertainment. Beyond all the hyperbole and verbal fisticuffing, Kutaragi mentioned something very interesting about a
sort of online storage system called Cell Storage that would act as central respository for media. Also curious, the
concept that you'll be able to use idle time from the Cell chip to perform processor-intensive functions such as
scaling up standard video to high definition, for example. Smells like "distributed computing" to us and frankly, we'll
be excited to see it coming to the living room. Let's just hope it's not more hyperbole.
[Thanks, tk for the size comparison image]
Wow, is the weebox 360 that much bigger??
The plugs seem to be the same size(the power plugs) so it seems possible. and don't believe james
That picture of the 360 is fake. If you look at the AC input, it is the same size as that of the PS3, which we use as a point of comparison. However, if the AC plug for the 360, scaled down, is that size, then the console would not be that large. An AC plug is about 1 inch wide, and we've seen real videos and pictures of an Xbox 360 that is about 12 inches tall. Therefore, the plug on this system cannot be real; it is likely that it is a scaled-down, photoshopped version.
Yeah, but remember, PS3 is the one that looks like a fridge. Not the "chill" colored Xbox.
*sigh*
Heh. I'm tired of all this stupid "trashtalking" and fanboyism thats everywhere now. Just buy a console that you want and shut up. It's just a gaming console, It's no big deal. Grow up people, especially you MS and Sony!
james is a liar
mattybizle must be retarded.... of course james knows wats up.... mattybizle u stink
Thanks for scaling down the refridg..er..ps3... my 15-inch monitor wouldn't fit the whole thing.
james is a nazi girlscout with a raging hormonla mean streak for lying.
Well as an ex-game developer I can tell you that developing for the Playstation is a painful joke compared to the luxury of developing for the Xbox. I expect developing for the PS3 will be even more of a nightmare - if its anything like the PS2 all you will get is a 5 foot high stack of manuals full of op-codes bottle of saki. Microsoft deserve to win this round as they actually have a *clue* how to create development tools and platforms. Sony dont. Lets just hope that influences the developers and the development of the games significantly enough to alter the outcome.
On Cell Storage... I'm not sure this will work for video content, not with the slooow upload link that most ISPs provide. Even my NTL cable account (which isn't limited by ADSL technology) has a dire upload speed.
nothing better then billionaires duking it out and everyone following behind a side like drones...
Just to clarify on the picture and size of both:
PS3- About 13.5" x 3.25"
Xbox 360- About 10.25" x 2.5"
I don't think the pictures were supposed to be on the same scale because the numbers say the opposite.
#5: Are you talking about, like... Being reasonable? Avoiding sensationalism? Dude, that's not what the "Oughts" are about! Reason shmeason, I wanna see some meaningless prickwaving!
Off/2-topic. Few quite interesting things:
http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS3988467635.html
My favorite part is the significance of PowerPC in new XBox.
blah blah blah blah blah
http://www.majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-1-of-4/
Does anyone else think the pic of the 360's "ethernet" jack looks like a phone jack instead? Thing looks tiny. Its either fake, my perception is off due to pics being different scale ratios, or maybe we will be able to use the 360 as a voip telephone adapter (in addition to making toast with the official MS toaster add on).
Yeah, sorry, that picture's more than a wee bit off on the scale. Here's a better size comparison of the XBOX360 and PS3 with the PS2 and PSTwo.
http://www.playnow.com.au/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=011210;p=1#000012
I've heard several people complaining about how hard the PS2 was to develop for (which I fully agree with), and then expanding that to the PS3. If a very large chunk of the UT2k7 engine was ported in 2 months (Yes, I know porting is different from straight-out coding, but it's still no walk in the park) then the PS3 can't be THAT hard to develop for, and certainly not as hard as some are imagining it to bee. Remember, very few people have even got a look at the CURRENT devkit, so we'll have to wait a while for any concrete indication of what the FINAL devkit is like.
As for the 360 pic being 'doctored', look here:
http://home.btconnect.com/hgi/xbox2/xbox-360-picture.html
And see that the power connector IS that size (for those who can't see it, the pic is rotated).
Sony income depends on 40% - 60% of profits from the playstation. If they go under they will lose a lot of stocks. This is why the trash talking.
Bill Gates is shutting him down and he Kuteragi doesnt like it.
This information is found in page 53 of TIME magazines May issue!!!
Another FACT: Bill Gates has the same IQ as Albert Einstien ( 160 )
You Idiots...the Photo is not doctored, it's just not to scale with the PS3 Photo. The Xbox 360 is smaller ...haven't you seen any of the E3 press stuff or read any of the specs on either system. The 360 is SMALLER than the PS3.
THAT PICTURE IS A FAKE!!! Look at how they shrunk the AC input on the XBOX its not in proportion to the outline
Come on engadget, Don't post this stupid stuff!
#16 This is the only place on the NET that has a comparison in the Xbox 360 favor(bias perhaps). It looks like everybody else is wrong :-O
PS: I've read all magazines and watched all TV shows related to E3 (especially G4 TV) and all gave hands down victory to PS3. Dont get me wrong I have all systems and I'll buy them all again *-)But right now PS3 is the best nextgen console.
THAT PICTURE IS A FAKE!!! Look at how they shrunk the AC input on the XBOX its not in proportion to the outline
Actually Tony, if you look at the official Xbox 360 images you'll see the one you linked to is doctored not the other way around. Maybe you should have guessed that by all the anti-Sony signatures on the thread.
http://www.xbox360.com/
They'll both look nicely sitting next to my TV.
Ken Kutaragi is not CEO of Sony Corp. or any division or subsidiary thereof.
Only plebians fight over consoles.
Buy both. Worry not.
Granted Brian, but they used actual dimensions given by IGN who took physical measurements at E3, not just photo scaling techniques comparing power connectors, USB ports or CD tray sizes.
Tony, then why did they feel the need to edit the photo and change the size of the AC adapter? I think comparing USB ports is probably the best way to go, they're universally the same size.
God, Ken, shut up. Please, just shut up. You're not helping Sony out at all. Remember the PS2? The "Emotion Engine?" The billions of polygons, particles, and effects that would make the PS2 look so amazingly good that you'd crap yourself?
The PS2 is a good system for its generation, but really, it's not as good as the hype indicated. Here we go again, of course, with the same crap, but this time, we've added wireless controllers and an Ethernet jack as standard equipment.
You can all go argue over which is better, which is uglier, and which is going to revolutionize this or that. *I* will wait for the games to come out, and buy the first system to come out with a must-have exclusive title. Kutaragi and Gates can maintain their pissing contest for as long as they'd like, but it's the games that drive the console, and they haven't shown us anything indicative of a must-have system on that front.
I was wondering if the actual specs of the PS3 outdo the 360.
A friend at work was blowing smoke up my rear telling me that it was said the 360 could run 4 games at once with no slow down (the proccessing power it had)
sounds like B.S. to me.
The Killzone game shots, were they just trailers of the game, or are they of the game IN ACTION?!
G4TV was clearly biased towards the PS3.
engadget is bais toward 360
Sony said that the kill zone shots were Cgi prerendered not real time
G4tv sucked in showing E3
Was xbox360.com just designed to piss people off? Yeah, that barely usable flash menu will keep people coming back. Function? who needs function?
hey, Justthefacts, what's the third dimention on both of thoes units?
yeah, engadget is biased towards the 360, I would like to get a neutral persons opinion and reaction on the consoles.
G4TV is awful, I can't stand that new Kevin guy, he's a huge tool.
G4TV are morons. They said PS3 games looked better... Yeah right, they compare pre-rendered movies with actual games running realtime engine on alpha dev kit. Seriously, I'm wondering if they know what they talk about.
I'm sure in the end the PS3 is more powerfull than 360 but now we're comparing apples and oranges. Let's wait to see real games on PS3 and 360 before taking premature conclusions.
And I'm sure that you'll enjoy your next-gen console, either you choose a PS3 or 360. Best is chooose both if you can. As for me, that's a 360 and Revolution.
#32: Your friend is wrong. The 360 got problem running games at constant frame rate at e3, but they were on alpha kit (pre-developpement machines based on mac G5). Developpers said they were using only 30% of the capacity of what will be final hardware. Killzone was pre-rendered.
For All Those Who Are Still In The Dark Come Into The LIGHT!!!
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html
Heh, I don't trust those sites. Seems like a scam.
Brian, I specifically linked Mxlegend99's post, which *does not* use the doctored power port photo, but instead uses the front, which gives a very good relative size of the optical tray when compared to the PS2. If you'll notice, the same poster somewhat verified the relative sizes using the USB ports on the PS2 and PS3. Unfortunately USB is hidden behind a vanity panel on the XBOX360, so no direct comparision is available there.
Official specs from Sony's website list their consoles at:
PS2 - 301mm x 78mm x 182mm (12" x 3-1/8" x 7-1/4")
http://www.us.playstation.com/consoles.aspx?id=2/info/PlayStation2/415007657.html
PSTwo - 230mm ?28mm ?152mm
http://www.us.playstation.com/consoles.aspx?id=3/info/specs_70000.html
Fifty bucks says neither is faster than my P4 3ghz/GeForce 6800GT. Sony lied about performance when they launched the PS2, emotion engine my ass. I own every current game console and the PS2 is the worst performing, and yet at its launch was hyped as the best. Barely outperforms the dreamcast.
I think it's funny Sony can rattle on about trashing the XBox's performance when the Xbox is about 5x faster than the PS2, all the while using "general purpose" PC components.
I'm sure the PS3 will be faster than the PS2, but I somehow doubt it's going to be what they claim. Even Nintendo, which has similar specs, has said the Revolution will only be 3x faster than the GameCube, and Nintendo is at least honest about that kind of thing.
So yeah, for all you fanbois... just think back to the PS2 launch... and remember the lies. And no, I'm not a Microsoft fanboi... my favorite console right now is my PSP.
Blaze, all they are is SPAM from John trying get you to use his referral link to freeCrap.com so he can be on the top of the pyramid scheme. Avoid links at all cost or he'll be encouraged to spam even more.
Tony, your first link actually takes me to the PS3 Spiderman joke. Mxlegend99's comparisons are much better than the first guy's. If the PS3 is only slightly larger than the PS2 than it's not that big at all. Maybe still smaller than a conventional DVD player's size. As long as they're not larger than that and they fit in typical A/V stand or entertainment center it really doesn't matter how big they are.
"Posted May 25, 2005, 10:58 AM ET by sandro
PS: I've read all magazines and watched all TV shows related
to E3 (especially G4 TV) and all gave hands down victory to
PS3. Dont get me wrong I have all systems and I'll buy them
all again *-)But right now PS3 is the best nextgen console."
It's funny you mention G4TV, the most idiotic group of wanna
be geeks out there... Out of all of them only one seems to
know his stuff and that's (Kevin:DarkTips one). Aside from
everyone one else that has reviewed both systems only a few
has really given unbiased and good reviews.
The more surprising of all is many people that reviewed both
systems were stupid enough to give PS3 the hands up just by
viewing the cgi trailers. IF THAT'S WHAT they base their reviews
on then they deserve no honor. I know both systems are going
to have great games but don't tell me the PS3 will render cgi
like games like that in this coming generation cause that's
straight up bullSHIT***.
" Posted May 25, 2005, 11:27 AM ET by andy
G4TV was clearly biased towards the PS3."
I second that comment by andy. But also I would
repeat myself to the fact that TechTV(G4TV) are a
bunch of idiots. They never even gave any reason of
why the PS3 was better other then the CGI.
Nuff Said...
I'm a senior engineer working on 360 and PS3 game development. I'll try to give some unbiased info.
The approaches of the two companies is quite different, and this reflects on the hardware design.
Sony wants to provide the most powerful hardware possible, and let developers figure out how to really take advantage of it. That's why the PS2 was more difficult to program than the XBox. I call this the "performance powerhouse" approach. As far as the PS2's actual performance is concerned, keep in mind that the XBox came out about a year after the PS2.
Microsoft wants to use more standard hardware, developer tools, and libraries, to make development easier and get good games out more quickly. I call this the "cheap PC for your TV" approach.
Now, Sony has gotten burned by some developers shunning the PlayStation because its more difficult (read: more expensive) to develop for. So they've done a *lot* to make it easier to develop for PS3.
I can't comment authoritatively on the size comparison, because I'm working with dev-kits, and I haven't seen the actual consumer boxes. But I'm pretty sure that the PS3 will be substantially smaller.
Personally, I'm leaving 360 development to focus on PS3 development. So you can guess where I'm putting my money.
Enjoy!
why is the ps3 BIGGER than the ps2, and just so all yal' stupid fanboys know if you want to buy a concole for its size, buy a spazin' revolution
>:)
knot_u
To end this size debate ..
(From ps2.ign.com website)
PS3 Dimensions
About 13.5" x 3.25"
Xbox 360 Dimensions
About 10.25" x 2.5"
I'm not on anyone's side here but I think its quite obvious that those two pictures at the top of this article arent scaled properly. If they were that switch on the ps3 (which looks like some manner of power switch) would be the size of the ethernet port on the 360.
So a couple things...
The major nelson site is biased, but he is open about that (He is pretty honest about being a manager for xbox live). The other websites that are calling the PS3 hands down more powerful are not competent to judge that. Gaming journalists know how to write about games, not how to analyze hardware. They can look at all of the pretty numbers that both sides quote, but those are all theoretical maximums, which are irrelevent. A processor that can do 100 gigaflops but has to spin clock cycles waiting for data from RAM to queue up in the cache really can't do 100 gigaflops in practice. This just reminds me of the random BS that apple used to pull when they released the "first desktop super computer".
Also, most game devs also don't know the actual performance of the systems. The dev boxes currently released only have a passing resemblence to the actual hardware. I've played with the xbox dev kits, and they are impressive (there was a demo of a dolphin swimming around, which wasn't very detailed, but was also running at 7500 frames per second, which is not a typo. Some decent lighting effects too. Sorry, the current crop of PCs are going to look weak this time.) but the glorified powermacs really don't have a whole lot in common with the 3 core 3.2 ghz beast that will actually power the 360.
and what it boils down to is that the first gen games on both consoles will use ridiculously little of the consoles's actual power. It won't be until 2 years+ that we will see a clear difference in quality, assuming that in practice there is a distinct difference in graphics power. Also, I'd sort of prefer good games over pretty ones, and that contest is still completely up in the air. That being said, I think the xbox handled itself much better in terms of lineup in the past couple of years, so I am inclined to buy the 360 when it debuts, but have a wait and see policy with Sony when they release their console.
Really though, I'm not particularly willing to hand my loyalty over to some mega-corporation and bark at anyone who speaks ill of them. That's sort of silly.
Screw all of you. The Phantom will kick the ass of the Revolution, Xbox 360 and the PS3. And the Gizmondo kicks the ass of the PSP, the DS, and the upcoming gameboy micro. So there!
one question:
whats the read speed on sonys little blueray technology?
:)
also.
is there a reason why sony is only dumping 256mb of ram into their system?
http://img276.echo.cx/img276/1484/ignsizes3dp.jpg
Hey, I'm a senior engineer working on 360 and PS3 game development, too!
In my spare time, I relief pitch for the Red Sox.
When I'm not saving lives through my privately owned hospital.
I'm also the President of Uranus.
I love the internet. You can be any kind of authority or expert imaginable, just by typing on a keyboard.
ps3.
bottleneck.
done.
PLAYSTATION 3 SPECIFICATIONS
CPU: Cell Processor PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
--1 VMX vector unit per core
--512KB L2 cache
--7 x SPE @3.2GHz
--7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
--7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
--*1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
--Total floating point performance: 218 gigaflops
GPU RSX @ 550MHz
--1.8 TFLOPS floating point Performance
--Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
--Multi-way programmable parallel Floating point shader pipelines
--Sound Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-based processing)
MEMORY
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
System Bandwidth Main RAM-- 25.6GB/s
VRAM--22.4GB/s
RSX-- 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)
SYSTEM FLOATING POINT PERFORMANCE:
2 teraflops
STORAGE
--HDD Detachable 2.5" HDD slot x 1
--I/O--USB Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)
--Memory Stickstandard/Duo, PRO x 1
--SD standard/mini x 1
--CompactFlash(Type I, II) x 1
COMMUNICATION
--Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
--Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11 b/g
--Bluetooth--Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)
--ControllerBluetooth (up to 7)
--USB 2.0 (wired)
--Wi-Fi (PSP)
--Network (over IP)
AV OUTPUT
Screen size 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI out x 2
AV multi out x 1
Digital out (optical) x 1
DISC MEDIA
CD
PlayStation CD-ROM
PlayStation2 CD-ROM
CD-DA
CD-DA (ROM),
CD-R,
CD-RW
SACD Hybrid (CD layer),
SACD HD
DualDisc (audio side)
DualDisc (DVD side)
PlayStation 2 DVD-ROM
PlayStation 3 DVD-ROM
DVD-ROM
DVD-R
DVD-RW
DVD+R,
DVD+RW
Blu-ray Disc
PlayStation 3 BD-ROM
BD-ROM
BD
Here's the PSP next to a PS3.
http://gamerave.com/psp/post.php?posting=e3_update_2.html
Here's the PSP next to the X360 controller.
http://gamerave.com/psp/post.php?posting=ea_2005.html
and then there's the PSP next to a Gameboy Micro.
http://gamerave.com/psp/post.php?posting=gameboy_micro.html
Yawn. I'm buying both of these consoles, regardless of what slanderous garbage these howling marketing monkeys put in the press.
HA HA Heee! # 49 hit the nail on the head! Listen I am so aggravated with the Sony fanboys that I have changed my mind to purchasing a 360 and a Revolution. I will not get a PS3 because I am afraid that somebody will think I am like the EXTREMIST fanboys that Sony has. Listen... wake up call... the PS3 will not blow the 360 OR the Revolution out of the water with performance. It just is not going to happen , forget for a moment the fact that Sony are known fibbers when it comes to performance. Do you people think if I buy a cross console game for my 360 and buy the same exact game for my PS3 , that when I plop it into the PS3 it will look like an entirely different game!?! WAKE UP! The PS3 will have GREAT looking (in house) titles but so will the other two consoles. The hype machine for Sony is really bad , much worse than N or MS. I have literally read comments from brainwashed people. I feel Sony needs to get more business like and proffesional.
IGN compares XBOX to XBOX360, using the disc tray as a reference point (while the XBOX360 FAQ says the XBOX360 could be as thick as 3.25" at it's least concave ends).
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/articles/608/608394/img_2748824.html
And take it with a grain of salt, they report approximate dimensions of the PS3 at 13.5" x 3.25"
http://gear.ign.com/articles/614/614837p1.html
To be honest, I don't care how big either console is and whose is smaller. I'm not a fanboy for either one, though I'll admit I've hated the XBOX since its inception. I'll give Microsoft props for *potentially* getting something right without it being their third attempt, but the marketing and propagandized doublespeak is way too overblown from both Sony and Microsoft.
Microsoft has only prototypes functioning and apparently not well enough to actually show any games at E3 (all the game demos ran on PowerMac G5's, if you're late to that bit of news). And they expect to have production units released in time for Christmas?
Sony, as well, had only empty-shelled prototypes on display at E3 and no real games to play, only technical demos. Probably along the same lines as the XBOX360 and Revolution prototypes that were just weighted plastic chassis' with battery-powered LEDs installed. The PS3 won't be available until spring 2006, so while Sony has more time than Microsoft to get their hardware and manufacturing nailed down, that's a lot to be accomplished from now until then.
to have you believe sony's trashtalking and ps2 specs, shame on them... to believe sony's trashtalking and ps3 specs, who's the idiot now?
i don't have a bias toward the xbox 360 or the revolution... i just hate sony.
The most interesting comment so far has been TekTors. I would believe people posting here about being Devs before any gaming site, but one thing you said is curious. You obviously have devs kits for both according to your statements. You called the PS2 and PS3 "Performance Powerhouse" approach and the original Xbox the "cheap PC for TV" which would be accurate. But what about the Xbox360 is "cheap PC"? They are both extremely powerful and eclipse current PC performance, they just use different CPUs. MS uses 3 PowerPC dual cores, Sony a single 8 core processor. Microsoft will undoubtably have better dev tools (they are a software company), but aside from floating points, I fail to see the advantages of the PS3. If you can list them, please do.
The size is irrelevant, but it is common knowledge the Xbox360 is smaller of the two, and more entertainment center friendly.
Finally, the trashtalking is funny, but I think Sony should back off the "we're more powerful" stance. The Majornelson.com article is pretty convincing, although biased, but it all makes sense. Games are much more than Floating Point calculations or streaming calculations. That is why AMD outperforms Intel in game environments. Sony needs to work harder to ensure it has exclusive titles. If they convince devs to do that, they have a chance.
the PSP next to the PS3 is no use to anyone, the PSP is much closer to the camera so the PS3 looks smaller than it is, anyone with a brain can figure that one out
oh, and #47, he posted while I was writing my previous statement. But I agree completely with him, except, I think the difficultly of programming on the PS3 may allow the Xbox to look better sooner since their performance is so similar. Which in turn will make it appear better than PS3 for years after because of their later release. If second generation titles are coming out when the PS3 is released (don't wait too long Sony), Sony will have a very hard time proving to the public they are more powerful. That is why people didn't believe it about Xbox, cause PS2 second gen games looked as Xbox first gen games. But PS2 is clearly inferior now.
Perhaps Engadget would like to put the record straight by changing the image to this one. The one on the front page paints the XBOX in a very bad light:-
http://img274.echo.cx/img274/3826/372911jx.jpg
Everyone is just assuming the PS3 is going to be hard to program because PS2 was. That's completely ridiculous and ignorant. The truth is, the only thing that made the PS2 hard to program for were the VU0 and the VU1, which couldn't be programmed in standard C/C++. The PS3 is nothing like that. Every part of the cell can be completely programmed in C/C++, making it much, much, much, much easier for developers to program. You people need to open your eyes and realize that this is not a valid argument for why the 360 will be better than the PS3. Also, what's with people constantly saying the PS3 only has 256MB's or RAM?? I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that on every spec sheet I've seen there's another 256MB's shared listed.
And is it just me, or do these Microsoft lovers seem a little hypocritcal about hating "fanboys" of Sony???
"God, Ken, shut up. Please, just shut up. You're not helping Sony out at all. Remember the PS2?"
You mean the system that's sold about 50 million units worldwide?
Ken Kutaragi may sound like an idiot (and I agree that he does) but clearly the hyperbole worked for the PS2.
"I love the internet. You can be any kind of authority or expert imaginable, just by typing on a keyboard."
From the "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you" department, I guess it pays to remind you guys that some people actually *are* who they say they are. You have to make your own judgements about who is and who isn't. Obviously you don't think that guy was speaking with authority, but just because you're a nobody doesn't mean everybody else is too.
I used to work for a pretty major game publisher, and I had access to a lot of early info (obviously protected under NDA). I'd still often be online posting in public forums (anonymously) about games, albeit without giving away any protected info. I always loved it when people would reply to me such that I didn't know what I was talking about. I particularly enjoyed it when I would try to stamp out some wild speculation about one of our games simply by saying I doubt the publisher would ever do something like that (like, for example, 50 Cent being a main character), only to get replies calling me an idiot. Really gave me a good laugh. (Yeah, I'm a geek - so sue me.)
You never know who you're talking to online. We already know that Bill G himself hangs around here...
I guess this means that they won't be compatible with each other...
You know, when you get down to it, none of these new consoles are going to be as good as the ones in the year 2012. Lets just all hold onto our money and wait it out. Compared to the new 2012 game systems, these consoles are sooo 2005-2006 (ie. teh sux0rz). You suckers are going to fall for it and buy these things up over the next 6 years. Not me though. Sniff you jerks later.
#18 Tony: Your source is lying to you. The photos you linked to are the fakes, and Engadget is using the real ones. Compare the power connector to the official Microsoft pics here:
http://screenshots.teamxbox.com/screen/36535/Xbox-360/
...compare it to the size of the power connector in the above Engadget shot and your obviously fake pic. One of these things is not like the other...but the Engadget pic and the official Microsoft pics match, while yours do not. You've been lied to. Engadget has done their homework here and are using official pics for the comparison.
This was not a hard bit of research to do. You (and others) should have researched the veracity of the pics yourself before accusing a great site like Engadget of lying.
What I can't figure out is why some crazy people in the Xbox community are going to all this trouble to actually doctor pics to make their console smaller than the Sony machine. Doctoring photos that can be easily compared to the real ones just kills your credibility. The Xbox fans that continue to do this are oly hurting their cause and the credibility of the console and it's fan community. Besides, since the XBox was released, the Xbox crowd has always said they didn't care about console size, or that people actually liked the big box, and later complaining that the new PS2 "slim" form factor was 'too small" or a "toylike." What changed where they suddenly care about being smaller?
Both systems appear to be smaller than the original Xbox, which was a pretty darn successful console, right? So the smaller 360 should be acceptable to consumers as well, right? I don't see why it matters to Xbox fans if the Sony is smaller; the Xbox 360 is smaller than the original Xbox, so it should be small enough. It certainly doesn't merit a panic, doctoring photos and claiming Engadget is lying, when they clearly are not, from the Xbox community.
Heres a picture I made.
Sorry, I thought HTML worked
http://img192.echo.cx/img192/1162/xbox360ps38zh.jpg
Heres a picture I made.
How about some REAL pics for size difference. Since no one really had access to the PS3 (cause it was empty plastic), here are some REAL Xbox360 pics. Some REAL pictures:
PSP:
Magazine: http://img44.echo.cx/img44/8105/magazine4es.jpg
Joel,
Nice rant. Is ign.com "crazy people in the Xbox community"? Are they purposely skewing the size of the console? Here are their dimensions:
PS3: About 13.5" x 3.25"
Xbox 360: About 10.25" x 2.5"
source: http://gear.ign.com/articles/614/614837p1.html
Woops!
Forgot the PSP link
http://img44.echo.cx/img44/8457/size4kd4eq.jpg
#66 Joel: Not sure why you feel the need to attack me. But, once again -- I put up a direct link to the *response* in that thread posted by *MXLEGEND99* which does not even use the photo with the doctored power connector. When I click the link, it jumps straight to the 12th reply to the original thread, which is Mxlegend99's. Only reason I can think of it NOT going to the correct entry is that your browser was still loading the pictures off the website. Try it now that it's cached -- pops right to it. I did my research, thank you very much.
Same link as before...
http://www.playnow.com.au/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=011210;p=1#000012
Picture of PSTwo, XBOX360, PS2 and PS3
http://img274.echo.cx/img274/3826/372911jx.jpg
Picture of Sony consoles
http://img272.echo.cx/img272/1845/sony5tq.jpg
So the PS3 is a little bigger than a first generation PS2 -- big fat hairy deal.
Oh lord the 360 IS smaller. God I hate this garbage so much. Why is Sony like the NY Yankees of console gaming , WHY?
I dont trust the size specs from IGN. So I made my own comparisons using CD-Drive sizes.
CD-Drive Comparison
http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/144/16/NextGenConsoleSizeComparison.jpg
Regarding the pic that people think is the most accurate comparison take a look at this pic I made.
http://img14.imgspot.com/u/05/144/16/CDDriveComparison.jpg
Exactly, who fucking cares what size XBOX360 or PS3 really is, does 2-3 inches really matter? (No dauh, jeesses this thing will sit next to your TV, and I think either box will work fine in your console).
.. Shit, I prefer hardware specs and internal built in functionality of PS3 over XBOX360 any day... Absolutely correct, XBOX360 should be named XB0X1.5, it's nothing more than current gen beafed up with minor features added.
Wake up MS lovers, go over and give Bill gates another dollar...Will ya!,
Rather, focus on how these new "game consoles" will add value to your life instead of just another peice of crap sitting next your TV collecting dust..
I go for PS3.. and forget MS, they suck!
yEAH those are NOT accurate size comparisons.
PS3 Dimensions
About 13.5" x 3.25"
Xbox 360 Dimensions
About 10.25" x 2.5"
That picture bothers me because it's so fake, yet everyone uses it as a reference point instead of finding a real comparison. For one thing, the 36 if it were really that big would be 28" wide in comparison to that picture of the Japanese Sony guy holding the PS3, also, it wasn't that big on that terrible MTV thing when the girl brought it out on stage. God was that a horrible show or what.
RE #74 Tony:
I was not attacking you, far from it. In the post I was referencing, #18, you posted the following:
[QUOTE]"eah, sorry, that picture's more than a wee bit off on the scale. Here's a better size comparison of the XBOX360 and PS3 with the PS2 and PSTwo."[/QUOTE]
The link featured a post containing this image as your "better" size comparison:
http://img276.echo.cx/img276/1484/ignsizes3dp.jpg
The plug in that Xbox picture doesn't match any plug in any other Xbox pictures released to the public. It is doctored.
Pointing out the truth wasn't attacking you. If you notice, I put the blame for this lame fraud down to someone else, when I wrote that "your source is lying to you."
So don't take it personally.
Using those obviously fake images to attack Engadget's reputation is pretty bad though.
The new pictures you link to suspiciously now don't feature any views of the back of the 360 at all, and they are from the same fanboy forum site as you got the first, poorly doctored photos. You can certainly choose to believe that site over Engadget. Sorry, I don't. Again, don't take it personally.
RE #76: The method of trying to use the disk tray size to determine scale is flawed by it's nature: The Sony machine has a slot, while the MS machine has a drive tray. The disc tray can be considerably wider than the disc slot slot on a PS3. My old computer's DVD-ROM drive tray is 1 5/8" wider than the side slot in my laptop's DVD-ROM.
The power cable and the Ethernet port are the only two constants to compare. From those two, the sony case looks like it is going to be smaller. Sorry to point this out. I'm not attacking you or anyone.
To everyone who takes this stuff personally, Lighten up. As I pointed out in my earlier post, I don't even know why this is a big deal. Both systems are going to be smaller than the original XBox, which was a success, so size shouldn't be even a big discussion topic.
For all three kits to have great success would be the best thing for the industry and for gamers. Destroying each other with strange private fanboy wars is stupid and bad for gaming in the long run.
Look guys, both machines are a huge step up from todays consoles, and both (for the first time) easily outperform todays high end PCs, and anything likely to be released as a PC in the next 6 months.
Both do Hi Def, both have a lot power, and in reality, like the PS2 and the current Xbox, the games will probably look pretty similar on both platforms.
The main problem I can see after pouring over the PS3 specs, is there just isn't enough bandwidth in there for good full screen anti-aliasing at HD resolutions. The xbox360 has bandwidht to spare in this area, so I would expect the PS3 to suffer from the jaggies in its games again. Jaggies aren't as bad when you are running in higher resolutions, but there is no way I can see the PS3 getting around the problem whereas the XBOX360 seems to have been designed with that problem in mind.
Both seem to have the "outside of gaming" stuff pretty well covered (acting as a server/display for your music, pictures etc.)
So really, as usual it will come down to the games and the developers. I'm sure GT5 will look bloody amazing, as will Halo3 etc. etc.
The big question for me is how much will the damn console and the games cost?
"Obviously you don't think that guy was speaking with authority, but just because you're a nobody doesn't mean everybody else is too."
But...but...Mom tells me I'm somebody!
Anyway, here's why I don't think the guy is straight:
"I'm a developer blah blah...my unbiased opinion."
a couple paragraphs later:
"I'm leaving the 360 behind to work on PS3. You can guess where my money's going. Enjoy!"
Yeah. That's a completely unbiased opinion.
Screw buying a console. Just reading through all the posts is entertainment enough. I wish Sony, Nintendo, and MS would release new console specs more often. The entertainment factor from all the little trolls, fanboys, and flamers is priceless. Now you will excuse me. Need to go check rec.games.video.nintendo and see what kind of tactical nukes are being lobbed around by the MS and Sony fanboys. Keep up the good work guys.
Hey, i have worked as a game developer as well. the game i worked on is being ported on the xbox as well. The notion of ps3 being harder to code for is quite stupid ( this is not a defense of the ps2), becaue the ps3 is now using opengl technology. In strictly graphics terms (because opengl only does graphics), opengl is far far far easier than directx. Infact, a page of opengl code translate to much more directx code. the ms development technologies can not be denies, however, using opengl will make sure that ps3 develpmnt is almost as easy and it will be harness comparable to the xbox.
Here is an interesting point:
Every one keeps bitching ps2 is hard to program for. howcome every breakthrough was on ps2 first, or atleast in time wht xbox. For exampke, mgs 2 was breakthrough, and comparable to xbox dev at that time, infact bettr. GT4 was made before Forza, MGS3 before Chaos theory ( i think so though, might be close by release datesr).
In summary, ms does not have the edge yet, nor do i think it will ever.
The following is being offered free of charge to all those who feel the need to troll Engadget with their fanboism. Please print out a copy and keep it with you at all times. If you follow these simple steps, you trolling is guaranteed to improve.
1. If a game is currently on PS2 and there are plans to bring it out on the Xbox, make sure to claim that no one will want to play that game by the time it gets to the Xbox. For example, FFXI will come to the Xbox 360, but it will suck just because it is on the Xbox.
2. Use the reverse logic if it is a game only on the Xbox 360 that may be ported to other systems/PC later. Case in point, Halo. Say
something to the effect of "I'll wait for the true version of Halo on the PC". "It will be much better than the Xbox version". Mentioning that all Xbox 360 games aren't "innovative" because they're incredibly popular works.
3. Constantly complain about FPS on consoles.
4. Always use Bill Gates name. Act as if he is the one making the games. By all means, if you run out of clever or interesting things to troll about, just bring up Mr Gates. Lots of people hate him and will be glad to agree with you.
5. Complain about the appearence of the XBox 360 or Xbox Live. Even if you have never seen or used it, it won't matter. People will believe you when you say it's sucks. Link it with other things that are trendy to hate such as the "iPod" works well.
6. When referring to the Xbox, try to scew the name a bit. Xblox, XSux, the stupider the name, the more favorable of a response you will get.
7. Be sure and mention Japanese and European sales numbers. If you aren't sure what those sales numbers are, go ahead and make something up. Estimate low, most people will believe you.
8. Although Xbox owners seem to enjoy their games, make sure to comment on Xbox not having any games with good gameplay. Automatically assume that the Xbox version of any ports has poor gameplay as well.
9. Since the Xbox has nice graphics, be sure and find a way to put a negative spin on this. Using the age old formula that states if a game has nice graphics, it must have terrible gameplay, you can convince people that Xbox games are all tech demos.
10. When all else fails, lie and point at Microsoft. There are lots of people who will agree with you just because they hate Microsoft. The use of "M$" can prove to be very effective here.
Lol...right on Phong
RE #80 -- For the third and final time, the links I posted in comments 18 and 74 are IDENTICAL. They both point to reply number 12, which is the size comparison from that thread that I've been trying to point out the entire time. Check the URL and you'll find that to be true -- not sure how anyone can argue with entries that are essentially set in stone. I'm sorry if anyone thinks I posted to reference the first poster's "infamous" doctored power plug, but I didn't. Neither did I post to the replies bearing the fat Spiderman impersonator, refrigerators, George Foreman grill, or soda vending machines (although they are quite amusing). And, I'm not exactly sure how to take your comments when you tell me I'm accusing Engadget of lying and unable to perform simple research. Water under the bridge, you believe what you wish.
But, I agree with you that the drive comparison can be flawed if they don't take into account that tray doors are usually wider than slot-load mechanisms. Especially, considering that the XBOX 360 has a custom drive door with cosmetic flares to the left and right (although I have never seen an XBOX 360 with the drive tray out and the 360 infomercial only shows bare drives installed without the plastic shell or chrome plate for reference). So, that particular size comparison needs to be redone factoring in that information.
I too, don't care which is bigger or smaller (which again, I've stated before), I'm more excited by what the consoles will be capable of with I can get one in my grubby mitts. For my money, it will likely be a PS3, since the only consoles I own are a PS2 and a PSP (unless you count the Sega Genesis that's been boxed up and collecting dust for years), my logical upgrade will be to the PS3. I never bought into the original XBOX's hype when it was announced and probably never will. XBOX 360 looks like a very capable game console, but it will likely never make it to my home either, for the simple fact that I do not need two $300-$500 consoles and assorted proprietary games and accessories to add to my list of electronic vices. The majority of my gaming is actually done on a PC and my daily use of the PS2 peaked several months to a year ago.
Come on people, 370 is an amazing price for the PS3, X360 (or if u prefer XBOX 1.5) has little to compete in terms with what its selling and what it will probably cost (between 299-399). Being within the same price range, PS3 will have so much more to offer than the X360 and cost similar. Evidentally PS3 will sell more and X360 fans have "even less" to talk about now.
PS3 will launch under 40,000yen (under US$370). Now what can the X360 fans say? Also, for those people who wouldn't buy a PS3 because it was rumoured to be over US$500, now you can be happy to get more for your money as the PS3 will be selling at a competative low price! I have plenty to back my opinion but I've written similar in the "Bizzare 180 of the XBox 360" topic~ LOL, it's quite hilarious to see XBox fanboys squirm for their beloved Halo and Xbox Live, which inturn will also fall to Sony in due time. Food for thought, there is still 7 months for Sony to unleash their online plans for the PS3, so wait for your XBox Live comparisons till a later date. So far, for what IS comparable, Sony have already succeeded in the preliminary rounds.
PS3 will launch under 40,000yen (under US$370). Now what can the X360 fans say? Also, for those people who wouldn't buy a PS3 because it was rumoured to be over US$500, now you can be happy to get more for your money as the PS3 will be selling at a competative low price! I have plenty to back my opinion but I've written similar in the "Bizzare 180 of the XBox 360" topic~ LOL, it's quite hilarious to see XBox fanboys squirm for their beloved Halo and Xbox Live, which inturn will also fall to Sony in due time. Food for thought, there is still 7 months for Sony to unleash their online plans for the PS3, so wait for your XBox Live comparisons till a later date. So far, for what IS comparable, Sony have already succeeded in the preliminary rounds.
Xbox360 will suck compared to PS3.
1.PS3 looks better.
2.Fully backwards compatible.(13,000+)games.
3.Latest technology.
4.Twice the power.
5.Better games.
6.Better graphics.
7.Better online gameplay.
8.Easy to develop for.
There is just no comparison PS3 all the way.
PLAYSTATION WILL RULE YET AGAIN!!!
Xbox360 will suck compared to PS3.
1.PS3 looks better.
2.Fully backwards compatible.(13,000+)games.
3.Latest technology.
4.Twice the power.
5.Better games.
6.Better graphics.
7.Better online gameplay.
8.Easy to develop for.
There is just no comparison PS3 all the way.
PLAYSTATION WILL RULE YET AGAIN!!!
Wow, there are some major losers on here...#94 case in point. No matter which system you are for, remember you are still supporting a major corporation like its a sports team. Microsoft, Sony...either way don't be some loser fanboy.
I think Steddyman's (post 64's) pic is right on. I saw Xbox 360 at E3, and it was clearly almost exactly the size of a (classic) PS2, but a might bit deeper. I was concerned at first that it being only 20% smaller than Xbox (MS said) meant it was still huge, but it is not.
I'm not sure about the PS3 size, Sony didn't have them in easy accessible areas, but Steddyman's pic looks about right there too.
Note that all the PS3 and Xbox 360's shown were ALL mockups, so things might change a bit. For example, I bet PS3 loses some ports, that's just too expensive to put all those ports on there if they won't be used.
dokworm, there's plenty of bandwidth on PS3, the PS3 has separate memory for the video, just like a PC video card. Xbox 360 is the one with unified memory architecture and thus has to share bandwidth between the GPU and the 3 CPUs. PS3 also moves a lot of processing into dedicated 256K memory spaces for the other special processors, removing those from contention for the main memory bandwidth too. So if PS3 games are programmed correctly, it will have tons of bandwidth for the GPU. Don't worry about that.
PS3 will very likely not have a jaggie problem, the jaggie problem on PS2 is mostly in the area of temporal anti-aliasing, not spatial anyway. You seem to be off track. PS3 uses an NVidia-derivative chip, my 6800 Ultra doesn't have a jaggie problem at 1600x1200x60fps, and this is twice as powerful. Why would you think it can't render 1920x1080x30fps (or even 60fps) without problems?
I think both platforms have what it takes. I give the technical edge to Sony, because the PS3 comes out later. Xbox came out later than PS2 and eclipsed it due to the fact that better technology was available when it came out. PS3 has the same advantage over Xbox 360. But I expect both will be quite good.
The PS3 should be superior hardware than the XBOX 360 this time.
However, it will be MUCH closer then the PS2 to XBOX. The size of the XBOX 360 and cost will make it the more attractive buy.
The XBOX 360 should be MUCH easier to program for. It's based off of PowerPC tech that can been around for years. Much of Sony's tech is new so how long will it take for the devs get move every last polygon to beat the XBOX 360 before the next gen in 2010 is Sony's problem.
As for the B.S. edge I give that to SONY. It is clear that XBOX 360 is not a 1.5, any developer telling you that is incompetent and will not reveal his name. Its not going to be PSP VS GB DS.
Hell, I bet ANY developer programming for the PS3 or XBOX 360 is using inferior tech in their PC.
Why rag the XBOX 360 and not Intel and their PC?
The games matter as always. Why don't you devs talk about your game play and not bet your $30 million on specs. You're fired as Donald would say. You will soon find out!
[QUOTE]
74. Posted May 25, 2005, 4:05 PM ET by Nate
Joel,
Nice rant. Is ign.com "crazy people in the Xbox community"? Are they purposely skewing the size of the console? Here are their dimensions:
PS3: About 13.5" x 3.25"
Xbox 360: About 10.25" x 2.5"
source: http://gear.ign.com/articles/614/614837p1.html
[/quote]
Nate: IGN is wrong. I don't know if they are crazy, but I do know they are clearly wrong. Look at this pic that Tom (#73) posted:
http://img44.echo.cx/img44/8105/magazine4es.jpg
That Magazine is 8 1/2"x 11" (give or take 1/8-1/4" for cutting) and the XBox 360 is clearly over an inch longer, esp. adding the thickness of the drive on top, more like 2" longer. If IGN's numbers were correct, the magazine would be 3/4s of an inch longer than the 360, not the other way around. It clearly is not.
Again, my point is that this shouldn't even be an issue. I don't know why the Xbox fanboys care so much.
XBOX 360 ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FOR ALL U PS3 LOVERS GO TO HELL. 360 IS THE BETTER GAMING CONSOLE.PS3 IS NOTHING BUT A COMPUTER. I HAVE ONE AT HOME WHY DO I WANT ANOTHER ONE.
MARTY CAN EAT THE PEANUTS AOUT OF MY SHIT!!!!!!
360 BABY
yeah history repeats itself.member the PS2 was supposed to have the quality to perform toy stroy graphics???????yeah and when you actually played it, you realized sony was a liar.yeah and look,the same hype with ps2 vs dreamcast shit all over again.only this time saony made you take a bite of there balls and stuffed hype down your throats!!sony is trying to do it again,and you are all going to be dissapointed again,like with the ps2.this crap is sick,atleast MS stood by their word with the first xbox output and power.now sony is trying to mkae some more shit up cause they are nervous about the 360,knowing that MS can deliver and has a great system,now sony is all screwed so they have to keep the lies going so you would still want the PS3....yeah sad but true.sony is scared,and MS is gving them a run for their money this time,it's the real console wars now!!!!!!!!!!!!and as the days go on,the worse things happen to the PS3.....PS3 is the next one to go!!!!!