SkateStoppers skater deterrents

It's hard enough to get your turbo on trying to thrash closed parks and secret backalley bowls, but installing anti-skater devices to otherwise completely grindable surfaces doesn't only make us think you're totally siding with The Man, but it's downright dangerous for skaters who shouldn't happen to see 'em. Granted, we're not experts in liability law, but any way you cut the deck the war between municipal (and business) property and skaters just got a whole lot more ugly, and we just hope anyone caught installing SkateStoppers is prepared to step to what they gonna get in return.

[Via Core77]

[Tony Hock @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

Rippin dude. Is this the year 1991? Woah time warp. Lets get turbro!!

[Ryan Block @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

This one goes out to my main turbro Robb. Big ups yoself!

[Brian @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

The railings around the civic center in my town have had these things for years. They installed them, and then a few months later they built a brand new skate park not even 300 feet away. Skaters usually seem to find a way around them though.

[Mr Yuk @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

See http://www.skatestoppers.com/The_Problem.htm
I would be bummed too if my granite curb was trashed in the name of "skaters freedom". The Starfish shaped skatestopper isn't half bad, but still shouldn't be necessary.

[wxrman @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

Skaters have rights, but defacing public property outweighs their right to grind granite... if they can do that, then I'm going to be doing "donuts" in the town square, tonight...

... all in the name of FREEDOM!!!!

[Rich @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

This is really old. What urban surface doesn't have these already? They've certainly been ubiquitous in Philly for many years.

The true need depends on the surface and material. I've definitely seen some edges *destroyed* by skateboards, and others made very ugly. Other materials seem to withstand it much better.

[djSyndrome @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

"and we just hope anyone caught installing SkateStoppers is prepared to step to what they gonna get in return."

There's nothing to "step to". If you're injured while riding on private property, especially in areas where there is a legal ordinance preventing it, it's your own damn fault.

Not only do I question whether this belongs on Engadget, I question where the author's mind is in the first place.

[Peter Pan @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

american way of life... like they think they can ban skaters from parks, they think they can solve the terrorist problems by putting some terrorists in jails.. maybe try it with communication and democracy..

[Curtis Onstott @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

I doubt you would have much of a case if you were injured by one of these.... If you run into my door trying to skate into my house...

[Zepolcire @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

Ya this type of deterent is old. In San Diego, they have had these things for 10-15 years already. Not only that, they also pour the conrete walls with indentations in them that accomplish the same thing.

[Gareth Burleigh @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

As a skater for 16 years now Im sad to see these things are now starting to crop up in the UK (as well as hefty on the spot fines). I understand to a degree why these are put up, but whats worse a bit of paint and metal on a ledge or ugly lumps of steel every foot. Plus wont sue we understand the risks, its when somebody shins themselves on the edges or a toddler trips and rips its cheek half off.

[the @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

hey, #8, fuck you, skateboarding is not a crime.

[sunz @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

'the'

vandalism' is a crime ..

'ben'

oddly enough i think if you break into someone's house and get bitten by their dog, you can sue. Just like you can see if you grab the goods and make it to the front door and the owner shoots you. also you can sue if the owner shoots you and you can prove you were not threatening them or that they had no reason to fear you .. oddly enough .. lol

not that i've ever been in any of those situations.

[John @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

PREFACE: I am not a skater. I tried it in summer camp once when I was 12.

In reply to #7 and #8, djSyndrome and ben:

Please read the following paragraph and draw your own conclusions:

February 2-4 -- Crime does pay. Settling a lawsuit, the city of Denver has agreed to pay $1.2 million to teenager DeShawn Hollis, "who was shot by the police three years ago, moments after he had burglarized a house." (Michael Janofsky, "Denver to Pay $1.2 Million to Young Burglar Shot by the Police", New York Times, Jan. 31)


The link on my name will take you to the website. Of course grinding is dangerous, but most people who grind in public places have experience pulling off these kinds of stunts. I, for one, wouldn't want a public park to be my first fall while grinding - I would die from embarassment.

As for the corporations or the city being responsible for the actions of "stupid people"... well, search for yourself. There are plenty of examples where officials were held responsible for the consequential actions of others.

Soon we'll be hearing: "Hello - I'm O'Brien, welcome to Oceania."

=)

[Pete @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

well, i'm just happy that it's illeagle to put these skatestoppers on handrails, cauze doing so would violate a bunch a building codes about sharp objects and how there's suppose to be a min amount of space between "interuptions" on hand rails.

[Don @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

#21, Actually, many times there are either NO facilities, public or private. For the money spent on installing these ugly menaces (which I could remove quickly with a cordless drill anyway), a decent facility could get started.

When I skated public places, I actually made deals with the yard staff to pick up trash in exchange for a no-hassle ride. We always tried to leave the place as good as we found it.

If a good public park is available ( that is not a 4-foot wide launch ramp at the side of a basketball court, BTW) then I agree that people should utilize them. In huge numbers, it seems they do - Some cities that have installed parks have had to expand them soon after opening as they underestimated the demand.

In the wave of rising obesity, anything that gets kids off their ass is welcome. If I have to see some paint on a ledge to prevent paying for a nation of butter-trolls, so be it.

Also, for those legal eagles here, no one needs a "right" to sue. I could file a lawsuit to anyone here just because you posted here and offended my sensibilities. Sure, it would be frivolous, and I'd lose, and the judge might even allow you to sue for counter-damages - but in any case, anyone can file a civil suit for anything.

[neale @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

i rollerblade, and a lot of you dont seem to understand these things. its those fucking bmx's and your metal trucks that fuck up the ledges. why the hell arent trucks made of the same plastic as my frames are? they dont damage anything. and for those damn bikes - they can get screwed

[thetrash @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

I bought one of these to fix the twelve dead pixels on my PSP

[matt hines @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

alright i didnt really care about all the other crap on their site, because all skaters know what skate stoppers do and how they do it. But what really got to me was that they said before any skatepark is built they should be contacted. That is just retarded!!! I dont see the point of them knowing that another park is going to get built.

[SR @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

Sydney Australia city is totally locked down with this stuff. No skate park for miles as well..! IIRC

[sunz @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

why do people always call out the numbers of the post .. i think they change throughtout the day ... depending on when people like me can verify out comments ...

[sunz @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

ooops .. 'verify our comments'

[Mark @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

"There's nothing to "step to". If you're injured while riding on private property, especially in areas where there is a legal ordinance preventing it, it's your own damn fault."

There have been legal cases in which trespassers who've broken and entered, have sued after being injured inside the premise they we're intending to burglarize... And they've even won!

You can sue for anything in this country, and people do...

[roy @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

I think it's very difficult for non skaters to understand the situation through a skater's mind. The only thing we care about your carefully crafted piece of rock is how well it grinds. Our sense of value is obviously different from the owner's. I think a good comparison is graffiti. Graffiti artists don't care that they are 'defacing' someone's property. They are doing it for their own reasons, usually it's an artistic expression. The same goes for skateboarding.

I've skated in front of some of the richest buildings in New York City (and probably the world, sadly) and all I really worried about was landing my trick. I value a perfectly timed movement of body and board alot more than how a piece of rock looks in front of your building.

I don't expect you to understand my art but I'm going to do it anyway. And I understand that if I get caught I'm going to get a fist to my jaw or my board exchanged for a big fat ticket.

There will never be a solution to this situation, it will remain as long as there are street skaters and people who place value in the oddest of things.

[eMarrs @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

all i have to say, is kids are gonna get Fux0Red UP!

"those things wont do shit, just watch ..."
or "lets just steal those things, and figure out a way to use them against them. Maybe we should take them all off with our crowbars (you say we dont have them?) and drop a "load" in their public restrooms inside. "


It may work, but not to the outright enraged individuals who feel it is their right to skate. Its like taking your kids car away, then telling him to mow the grass after he takes out the garbage. -the kid will not cooperate, and instead find something else (but thse skaters DO love their skating, so I doubt they will up and leave it) or the kid will call a friend with a car ov3r, and win in his own little way.

the point- these COULD work, but WILL they work? remember, it only takes ONE BAD doughnut for a cop to refuse a whole dozen.

-think about that

[Andrew @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

I'm sensing a lot of skater backlash on here. Society has this negative connotation towards skaters being hippies, potheads, vandals, etc. But all the skaters I grew up with became truely upstanding Christian citizens. We only skated public settings because we had no place to go. And to this day, the closest skatepark to my hometown is over an hour away. I think Don's comment said it best. We should be glad kids are getting exercise. Skateboarding is no different than baseball. Every now and then you get a busted out window, heh.

A lot of people probably won't see this comment but it's just really discouraging that skaters get such a bad rep. Just a few weeks ago, we had a soccer player get stabbed six times just because of a stupid school rivalry. And football players are the main source of drugs, alcohol, and teenage pregnancy here. That's okay though, because everybody loves traditional sports.

As far as the legal thing goes, the property owner can be held liable for anything that happens on that property. So if I walked into your yard and fell, I could sue you. Even if it's my fault. It's RIDICULOUS how our legal system works.

If anyone wants to argue with me or learn more, just click on my site and IM me.

[Dave @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

Also, fat people on wooden benches. Warps the wood. Should be outlawed.

People who smoke outside. Hurts the environment. Should be outlawed.

Trees that spread pollen. I'm allergic. Should be cut down.

People having fun. I don't get to have fun. Should be outlawed.

[Andrew @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

Are you some sort of granite distributor or something? Why is that even necessary to put that much in front of your business? If you can afford to waste money like that, you can certainly afford to fix it. Hey, let's just cover the sidewalks with gold while we're at it.

Thirty grand isn't enough for a public park, but it's surely a good start. People should be contributing to a solution, rather than complaining about it. Even if you don't support public parks, with that kind of money, you could hire a security guard or something.

[Andrew @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

And to contribute to the actual story... These things have been used for years and people always find ways around them whether it be removing the stoppers with tools or placing flat boards over obstacles. I don't condone any of that, but my point is that skate-prevention products are a waste of money.

[Marc @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

These have been around for atleast 5 years now.. I remember first seeing them in Irvine, California - home of the heartless and sterile

[Phillip Hilton @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

"we just hope anyone caught installing SkateStoppers is prepared to step to what they gonna get in return."

Which is what exactly? A bulls%&$ lawsuit? I love that 'we' bit too......who exactly do you mean 'me,myself and I?'. Because from the vast majority of comments you can tell you are pretty much on your own.

People need to start taking responsibility for their own actions. Judges need to clamp down on this kind of crap. If I was presiding over this kind of ridiculous case where some chump had bust himself up on one of these devices the conversation would go a little something like this.......

'And you are suing the defendant because?'
"I'm suing him and his facist company because while I was exersizing my rights by trespassing on his property I hit a newly installed piece of metal, fell off the railing I was skating on and broke my neck. Now I want millions of dollars in damages because 'its my right'"
'Really? Did you have permisson to be there'
"No, but thats not the point because I can go where I like and do as I wish. So I entered the property illegally and did just that"
'Really? Tough s$%& then....enjoy your new set of four wheels.'
"But my life has been ruined by this company's ridiculous policy of protecting their own property from skate related wear and tear........where is my hand out.....they owe me"
'No you ruined your life and then tried to make someone else pay for your mistake. Try begging in the street or getting a job. Now someone wheel this ignorant little s%&$ sack out of my sight. Next case please'

Judges in civil suits need to be more pragmatic.........and people need to be aware of the consequences of their own stupid behaviour. Nuff said........

[Foof @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

38, about your comment about people placing value in the oddest of things: are you talking about people placing value in expensive granite slabs, or skaters/graffitists placing value in the expression of their art? Because it sounds like it goes both ways.

[onuo @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

WTF - Engadget...

Who is allowing Tony Hawk to post !?!

onuo

...btw does it do variable rate .mp3 ?

[Peter Pan @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

why wasn't someone able to produce "skate-starters"? there should be some ways to mod the stoppers in an industrial way ;-)

and why aren't there cool skateboard parks around for kids? because all the money is spend on "business" things and interests of the young generation are often forgotten. By the way.. those guys who really have a problem with it and seem to hat skaters - how old are they? do they belong to the 68 flower-tolerance generation? those one often changed their mind in a complete way.. seems to me that they have forgotten their own time of youth...
maybe just an alternative for kids is better than everywhere these stoppers...

[Duncan Domingue @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

I've been skateboarding for five years, and I can see the situation from both sides. Obviously, if your business is your livelihood, you'd want it to look nice, and not all roughed up. If you're a skateboarder, new terrain is like crack: you just can't get enough of it. Part of the joy of skateboarding is finding new stuff, otherwise we'd just hang out in empty basketball courts all day pulling the same tricks all day.

The act of grinding is naturally destructive: it destroys the object your are grinding on, and it also slowly destroys your trucks (the part that holds the wheels to the skateboard and what is commonly grinded upon (and please don't grammar nazi me about saying "grinded", since I think saying "ground" in reference to skateboarding is stupid)). Of course, like an earlier poster said, some materials withstand grinding better than others. Most cement and concrete tend to reach a point where grinding no longer really affects it, it just becomes smoother, and more rounded. Granite and marble like to break off in large chunks and generally don't wear as well as cement and concrete. Wood sucks, and always will, so skateboarders tend to shy away from wooden obstacles as a grinding surface, therefore you really don't have to worry about a wooden park bench getting torn up unless it's the last thing available. Metal doesn't get very rough or torn up, just loses some paint and gets some left behind from the skateboard. The biggest concern with metal is skateboarders removing those small kinks at the end of handrails and leaving sharp edges.

When I'm out skateboarding in a non-snactioned-for-skateboarding area, I look for places and objects that won't generally bother people. If I'll be skating for more than a few minutes or at night, I'll stay away from residential locations, unless I happen to be skateboarding with someone who lives near that area or if the occupants don't mind. If I'm skating on the private property of a business, I'll try to stay out of the way of the customers and employees, which means I'll be hanging out around the back near the loading docks. My big concern is trying not to bother someone to the point where they'd ask me to leave, which means not destroying their $5,000 marble ledge. It's a careful balance, and to this day I still get asked to leave, though on generally nicer terms. If you're polite, they may say that you can come back when the store is closed (it's happened before).

If a business places skate stoppers on their ledge, it means they don't want you to skate there, as simple as that. So, you find a new place to skate. Sure, it sucks that you've lost the best 10 stair ledge in town, but your actions are still equivalent to vandalism. So, in conclusion to my pointless ramble, be nice when you skate, take other people's property into consideration, and if you get stopped from skating there, that's the way it should be.

[Peter Pan @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

you are right!

[ByeLaw @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

What is this doing on engadget?

#51 sums it up by stating the obvious!!

[Arcsbite @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

Thank god!

no more emo skater losers poluting our city centres and knocking down grannies.

[bryan elkus @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

If all the cities continue to do this, they are going to have a FREE skate park at every city. Its bull shit. I dont even skate. Skateboarders don�t just go out skating to bust up property, they go out to skate. i would bet to say that 99% of skaters skating out in the city and somehow hurt themselves are NOT going to sue anyone. They know that if they get hurt they screwed up. As far as the damage is concerned, Tell the builders to make the landscape out of a material that will not get damaged by wood rubbing against it. There are ways to compromise.

[ByeLaw @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

#56 "Tell the builders to make the landscape out of a material that will not get damaged by wood rubbing against it. There are ways to compromise."

Ok.. how about concrete? Build everything out of concrete! It may look fuckin horrible BUT it will be good to skate on!!

[Foof @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

Virtual1:

Also, even if a slab of marble WAS an attractive nuisance, which it could be if the owners knew about grinding *but did nothing to stop it,* the fact that they put up skatestoppers is pretty much like covering the pool. So it would actually insulate them from liability whereas inaction would not.

[Tom @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

These thingshave been around forever and I for years I have seen skaters using angle grinders to cut them off of railings and ledges.

[Ryan Waddell @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

Jesus, skaters are hilarious. You go destroying a valuable building front and then say "Well shit, man, you spent all that money building it, you can afford to fix it!" - likewise, I can afford an expensive car, so if you smash my windshield with a baseball bat, I can certainly afford to fix it. That doesn't make it any more legal for you to go smashing it up, nor is it any more legal for you to destroy a building's granite with your skateboard. And for the guy who said that 30 grand spent on granite could be better spent on a public skate park, you are absolutely delusional. Why in the world should a private business be spending ANY money so that you can go and skateboard somewhere for free? If that's the case, they should be buying me an xbox and a big screen TV so that I can pursue MY hobby without having to pay for it! Awesome! Sounds good to me, where do I sign up? Plain and simple fact: no matter HOW you justify it in your head, if you are grinding on a company's private property and ruining their shit, you are vandalising and breaking the law. So stop pissing and moaning every time you get kicked off or ticketed, you sound like an idiot.

[flash boredom @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

These have been around for a long time here in phoenix.

[Brad B @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

Hey # 16, FUCK YOU- I Catch you on my property tearing up my shit, I'm going to bust that ass up with a shovel!

[Kevin @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

Im sure any good skate boarder can come up with a trick to jump over these. If you're any good at grinding, it shouldn't be so hard.

[redoc @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

The other day I was playing baseball in the street. I hit a long line drive right through a window of a local gas station... and they want ME to pay for it. How stupid is that? BASEBALL IS NOT A CRIME!

[GMack @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

For every person that has made the statement "There wasn't/isn't a skate park for miles", ask yourself this: Why have I recognized a lack of service for an obviously interested target market, yet not acted on that opportunity and made some money for myself?

No skate park and kids skating all over? Start your own! Put together a business plan, do the market research and find some investors. You could have a skate park and maybe make some good money.

In my area, the private skate parks are getting pissed the cities and townships are opening up free parks and cutting into their business!

[Asno del Payaso @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

Skate or die, dudes!!!!!!!!!

[Pete @ Dec 19th 2005 1:02AM]

Uniform Building Code 1003.3.3.6. It reads:

Handrails. Stairways shall have handrails on each side, and every stairway required to be more than 88 inches (2235mm) in width shall be provided with not less than one intermediate handrail for each 88 inches (2235mm) of required width. Intermediate handrails shall be spaced approximately equally across with the entire width of the hallway.

The top of handrails and handrail extentions shall not be placed less than 34 inches (864mm) nor more than 38 inches (965mm) above landings and the nosing of treads. Handrails shall be continuous the full length of the stairs and at least one handrail shall extend in the direction of the stair run not less than 12 inches (305mm) beyond the top riser nor less than 12 inches (305mm) beyond the bottom riser. Ends shall be returned or shall have rounded terminations or bends.

The handgrip portion of handrails shall not be less than 1 � inches (32mm) nor more than 2 inches (51mm) in crossectional dimension or the shape or the shape shall provide an equivalent gripping surface. The handgrip portion of handrails shall have a smooth surface with no sharp corners. Handrails projecting from a wall shall have a space of not less than 1 � inches (38mm) between The wall and the handrail.

read the 2nd to last sentence carefully. not violation any building codes my ass.